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Heterosexual At Birth?
Could it be that people choose to be heterosexual? the evidence shows that we are born homosexual at birth. And that is logical since it is natural. Other animals are born homosexuals and don’t have a choice when some change gender and even some animal males give birth.
Take a look at kids when there growing up. They are heterophobic and shun the other sex and relate to their own sex.
it is only later in life that some people choose to turn heterosexual because of perhaps there parents happened to be heteros or it just happened to be trendy at the time and look cool to be different.So therefore it is just a social condition that make some people turn hetero and there is no evidence to show they were born that way. Some people don’t sit comfortably about people being attracted to the other sex because we know what they do and they spread a lot of STDs. So should it really matter if heterosexuals choose there life style?
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Gay at birth?
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Gay at birth?
@just_sayin
So my point is valid - that sexual orientation is not immutable,...
So you believe it's a choice. -
Gay at birth?
@ZeusAres42Where @just_sayin is concerned, there is the misuse of the term 'Fluidity' (probably thinking this means that orientation is a conscious choice when nothing could be further from the scientific truth), the implication that biology plays no role in orientation (that baffles me, let alone not even being stated in any of the literature he references), the negation of the interconnectedness of environmental factors (which he ignores to say anything about which is also in the literature he references), the blanket statements about LGBTQ+ people when we're explicitly talking about homosexuality, among other things such as studies with outdated methodologies as well as posting news blogs.
His scientific grandiosity speaks volumes.
And then again, there is the poisoning of the well where he is accusing me of posting AI content when I have done no such thing as some childish attempt to discredit me.
First an apology. After looking at https://typeset.io/, I think it can be a valuable research tool. I even added to my folders. I question the value of mentioning research from the 60-70's for sexual orientation fluidity, but more sources are better than less.
I did not misuse the term 'fluidity' to describe sexual orientation. That is the word the researchers use. I haven't said that sexual orientation is only a conscious choice - just that it is not immutable, nor biologically 'determinate' ( I haven't made any argument about biologically influenced). That is either a misunderstanding on your part or an intentional misrepresentation of what I have said. I have not disconnected the environmental factors from the biological ones. I am sure that sexual orientation fluidity involves those as well as a myriad of other things.
Since we are talking about homosexuality - exclusively, per your demand, let make these observations from the literature on https://typeset.io/. ;Approximately 19% of self-defined homosexual/bisexual men reported engaging in vaginal intercourse in the past year, with 42% reporting it in their lifetime [1]. - see https://typeset.io/papers/same-sex-sexual-behaviour-us-frequency-estimates-from-survey-4xdlm0oi9a
So, the majority of sexual fluidity occurs among non-heterosexual groups. According to
Prevalence and Stability of Sexual Orientation Components During Adolescence and Young Adulthood (you can view the more recent study at https://addhealth.cpc.unc.edu/ - same basic results ) which did a national longitudinal study of American teens over several years said:All attraction categories other than opposite-sex [heterosexual] were associated with a lower likelihood of stability over time. That is, individuals reporting any same-sex attractions were more likely to report subsequent shifts in their attractions than were individuals without any same-sex attractions [heterosexuals].
Those who engaged in same/both-sex [homosexual or bisexual] behavior during the first two waves were more likely to report Wave 3 exclusive opposite-sex [heterosexual] behavior than those who engaged in opposite-sex [heterosexual] behavior were to later report same/both-sex [homosexual or bisexual] behavior.
So my point is valid - that sexual orientation is not immutable, especially among those who identify as homosexual and are more likely to later identify as heterosexual than vice-versa.
His scientific grandiosity speaks volumes.
Hey, I have never made any personal scientific claim for myself. I have not claimed to be an expert or researcher on the topic.. I have tried to cite sources for any claim, which apparently makes me different than most. If that makes me 'grandiose', so be it.
And then again, there is the poisoning of the well where he is accusing me of posting AI content when I have done no such thing as some childish attempt to discredit me.
I don't mind if you use AI if it ads to the discussion at all. As I observed earlier. I'm not personally attacking you or your AI - I don't even understand the point of that. I may not see the benefit of some AI content in the discussion, but it is nothing personal. I am making an argument that I believe science agrees with. If you disagree with the argument and think sexual orientation is immutable, then show the evidence. Your comments have been so personally directed at me, I don't even have an idea about what your position is.
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Gay at birth?
Joeseph said:.
Your link is a pay to view article citing one person's view , have you any scientific peer reviewed papers backing your claims up?
we can not stray away from our natural instincts.
Our only " natural instinct " is to survive , we are hunter gatherers all our efforts are towards achieving that goal.
You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?
Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?
The 'article' was a massive study with almost a half a million participants - read here.
From the link:the report finds that human DNA cannot predict who is gay or heterosexual. Sexuality cannot be pinned down by biology, psychology or life experiences
Search on 'No Gay Gene' and you'll find a lot of articles referencing the study.
An important point to make is that while many of these articles will still claim that there is some 'genetic relationship' for a small number of people, what you will really discover when you dig down in the information, is that it is often heterosexuals who have a greater percentage of these alleged markers than LGBTQ+ people, and that the standard used fails to meet the official minimum threshold to be considered a true marker.
Most current studies show that sexual identify is fluid, especially among teens - See
Sexual fluidity common among American young adults
Sexual identity fluidity, identity management stress, and depression among sexual minority adolescents
Study Highlights Fluid Sexual Orientation in Many Teens
That strongly suggests that sexual orientation is not determinate.
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Gay at birth?
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Your link is a pay to view article citing one person's view , have you any scientific peer reviewed papers backing your claims up?
we can not stray away from our natural instincts.
Our only " natural instinct " is to survive , we are hunter gatherers all our efforts are towards achieving that goal.
You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?
Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?
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Gay at birth?
There is no gay gene. This has been scientifically proven. Further, many of the genetic markers that some have put forward suggesting as that someone is born gay - appear in greater frequency in the heterosexual community. There have been over 2 dozen genes, combination of genes, biological markers, and physical conditions suggested, yet none have met the threshold of provability. The fact that identical twins can have different sexual orientations is an indicator that biology doesn't determine sexual orientation. It is time to let this archaic theory die. -
Gay at birth?
Zelensky started being gay when the devil ate his soul. -
Gay at birth?
@ZeusAres42
Just Sayin posted up.a link regarding depression and gender fluidity thinking it somehow supported his claims.
It's beyond belief that the guy actually believes sexual orientation is a choice but he has to think this way on account of his religious beliefs as homosexuality to his mind is a grave sin and one cannot be born this way as God wouldn't allow it. -
Gay at birth?
Something very obvious that I would like to insert in this discussion is that the question of what causes homosexuality is separate from the question of whether it is changeable at will. Even if homosexuality was purely environmental (which it very well might be), it still would not imply that it can be changed intentionally. Human psychology has incredible memory, and 90-year old people are still chiefly run by their childhood traumas. Someone who had a very traumatic confrontation with their parent when they were 5, may still experience painful flashbacks every time they enter a confrontation at the age of 95. They were not born with these flashbacks, but they are so deeply ingrained in their psychology that they might as well be an inherent part of their brain.
Changing one's behavior is difficult enough. Changing one's preferences is downright impossible without very serious and long inner work. Take someone who hates the taste of carrots and try to get them to love it - most likely will not happen. And changing disliking one vegetable to liking it is a billion times easier than changing being sexually attracted to one gender to another.
Lastly, I invite anyone who seriously believes that homosexuality can be changed into heterosexuality at will - conduct the opposite experiment. Pick a month and, assuming you are heterosexual, live it as if you were homosexual. Go on dates with guys (involving making out), share bed with them, watch gay porn... Then let us know how it went.
