frame

Abortion should be illegal in non life threatening situations

Opening Argument

I think that, from a moral and ethical standpoint, Abortion is disgustingly wrong. It is essentially the murder of a human life for the convenience of the mother. 
It is interesting to me, when i walk around protests i see pictures of abortions, and i think, "why would they just shove these in my face?" Nobody wants to see that. However this is how people would treat pictures of slavery in the 1800's. This connection is interesting enough because the argument in favor of abortion is exactly the same as the argument for slavery, exactly the same. "Your black, your on my property, you are my property i decide if you are a life or not" , "your a fetus, your in my body, i decide if your a life or not". Do you see the correlation?  History repeats itself and it is our job, as the american people to put and end to immoral and unethical evils that time and time again find its way into legality.
I will now debunk several common pro choice arguments.

1. It is just a bundle of cells
Technically they are right, it is just a bundle of cells, however that is essentially what a human is, a bundle of cells. So i don't exactly understand what they are trying to prove here. I have seen many pregnant woman over the years and that bump is not a simple bundle of cells, it is a living breathing human being.

2.reproductive choice gives woman power over their own bodies
first of all, if you really had power over your own bodies, you wouldn't have had sex in the first place, unless you are a rape victim which i will explain later. Second, the baby is not part of your body just because it is in it, just like a person is not a slave just because they are in your property. Now back to the case of rape. Rape victims account for less than 1% of all abortions annually. That is an extremely marginal case. There are several programs to help this extremely marginal and unfortunate group (https://www.rapevictimadvocates.org/programs-services/, https://www.rainn.org/)
outside of the case of rape, abortion cases, ironically are mostly women who cant control their bodies and have irresponsible sex.

3. It is a constitutional right
contrary to the roe v wade mishap. the actual constitution does not give woman the power to kill babies (http://constitutionus.com/)



In conclusion to my opening statement, Abortion is a violation of everyone's right to live, and even though pro choice people tell you that pro choice is pro woman, abortion is the single greatest cause of female deaths annually (pew research), Feminists use the veil of gender equality to push their political agenda, defaming the original idea of feminism and calling everyone who disagrees with their ideas a sexist racist bigoted homophobic hater. Thank you and i would now like to invite my opposition, whoever it is.
billpassedtherepSnakesOfferingApplesjoecavalry1Hacker0SilverishGoldNovaaarongnorthsouthkorea
  1. I Agree with the proposition

    10 votes
    1. I have an alternate opinion
      60.00%
    2. I agree with the opposition
      40.00%
«13

Status: Open Debate


Arguments

  • edited July 31
    I agree that abortion should not be allowed unless

    The woman's life is threatened or in the case of sexual assault. EDIT - Although sexual assault is a marginal case, it is still a case nonetheless and regardless of whether there are institutions to help out victims of rape, that doesn't mean that it is guaranteed to be accessible for everyone. I shouldn't have to contact a charity foundation to be able to help a woman in my life who was raped, I should be able to walk into a hospital and offer her quick and manageable help.

    P.S -

    "Technically they are right, it is just a bundle of cells, however that is essentially what a human is, a bundle of cells. So i don't exactly understand what they are trying to prove here. I have seen many pregnant woman over the years and that bump is not a simple bundle of cells, it is a living breathing human being." 

    Quote the actual person who said this, *cough Ben Shapiro *cough

    And also, find the Pew article you are alluding to, although Pew Global research is a very reliable source, it isn't going to cut it if you just mention that you read that on a Pew article. 
  • Abortion can't be allowed. The procedure comes at a cost at times on other tax payers and can cause pain to the baby. 

    The procedure is not humane and babies should not be killed with that execution or any other execution though of.
    JuicyMelonTech
  • @SnakesOfferingApples Rape and abortion are two different things, i think killing a baby is the worst possible solution to rape. It may be quick and effective  but  that does not justify murder.  Contacting a charity foundation is the most ethical solution available right now. Believe it or not they are quite fast and they offer help as fast as possible, i know a woman who had been raped and contacted RAINN, and they were very attentive and they helped her deliver the baby. I think we should instead find ways to prevent rape instead of finding a horrible way to deal with it
    aarong
  • @JuicyMelonTech

    First of what is fallacious about what I said? Just a question. (The button is seriously abused, you must defend your claim about my argument being fallacious.) There is a whole entire list of fallacies, I think I am justified in asking you to defend your claim

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies ;

    Now moving on to what you said - Sure prevention of rape is best, but we know for a fact that until that day comes many girls and women will fall victim to rape. And birthing the child of your rapist is not only going to cause a lot of pain, stress, mental disorders, but it is arguably a death sentence. The impregnation is so sudden that it guarantees a life of poverty and dysfunction. You could argue that they could ask help from the charities, but it is not as simple as contacting them, your personal experiences don't mean anything as you have no way to validate them. 

  • @SnakesOfferingApples it was a minor fallacy about me stealing from Ben Shapiro. Although i am familiar with him, i don't watch a lot of his debates and i think it might just be a coincidence
  • @SnakesOfferingApples ;
    "Now moving on to what you said - Sure prevention of rape is best, but we know for a fact that until that day comes many girls and women will fall victim to rape. And birthing the child of your rapist is not only going to cause a lot of pain, stress, mental disorders, but it is arguably a death sentence. The impregnation is so sudden that it guarantees a life of poverty and dysfunction. You could argue that they could ask help from the charities, but it is not as simple as contacting them, your personal experiences don't mean anything as you have no way to validate them. "

    It does not necessarily create a life of poverty, i don't know how it would impoverish anyone.  As for dysfunction i agree with you, however there are many ways to cope with this such as therapy. I personally think that rapists should be castrated or killed. Doing this would probably have a tremendous effect on the number of rapes each year. Do you agree with me on that?
  • @JuicyMelonTech

    No, you need to name the fallacy otherwise the claim you're making is invalid, I know for a fact that Ben Shapiro said something exactly like this, it is not good paraphrasing if I can trace the exact quote. I am not attacking you so it's not an ad-hominem I am attacking your actions which is perfectly valid to do.
    JuicyMelonTech
  • @JuicyMelonTech

    No, you need to name the fallacy otherwise the claim you're making is invalid, I know for a fact that Ben Shapiro said something exactly like this, it is not good paraphrasing if I can trace the exact quote. I am not attacking you so it's not an ad-hominem I am attacking your actions which is perfectly valid to do.

    To be honest, I'm fairly new to this website and i thought that the fallacy button was simply reporting little mistakes

    you said something about me needing to quote Ben Shapiro when i have never watched the debate in which he said anything close to what you told me to quote.


    "Quote the actual person who said this, *cough Ben Shapiro *cough"
    this is the fallacy in question

    i never watched that debate or speech, so its not fair to ask me to quote it



  • i have corrected my mistake and taken down the fallacy

    therep
  • Anyways, does any leftist or 3rd wave feminist dare to oppose?
  • thereptherep 56 Pts
    @JuicyMelonTech , you provided some great arguments! A "reaction" is a DebateIsland exclusive that no other Debate website has out there. A "Fallacy" is a reaction which can be used when a user is making a false argument, mistake etc. 

    Abortion is a humane, painless procedure which can be done without using tax payer money and with doing so as another option. I am for Abortions occurring upon request.
  • Itherep said:
    @JuicyMelonTech , you provided some great arguments! A "reaction" is a DebateIsland exclusive that no other Debate website has out there. A "Fallacy" is a reaction which can be used when a user is making a false argument, mistake etc. 

    Abortion is a humane, painless procedure which can be done without using tax payer money and with doing so as another option. I am for Abortions occurring upon request.
    Thanks for the help!


    the fact that it is painless does not justify it morally. 
  • @JuicyMelonTech

    That's fine, you could have kept it... it's just a personal pet peeve that if someone points out a fallacy, they should name it and prove their point, you will encounter those types of people too, and you should and have the right to put them on the spot when they call you fallacious. Welcome to the site, and happy debating. 
    JuicyMelonTech
  • edited July 31
    i would never constitute the murder of another human being "Humane". As the definition of humane is having or showing a kind of compassion. Obviously the termination of a life is not humane so i don't understand what you mean by humane

    EDIT: i forgot to include partial birth abortions, in which planned parenthood delivers the baby except for the head, Rams scissors into said head, sucks out the brains, and then sells the parts.
  • @JuicyMelonTech

    "you said something about me needing to quote Ben Shapiro when i have never watched the debate in which he said anything close to what you told me to quote.


    "Quote the actual person who said this, *cough Ben Shapiro *cough"
    this is the fallacy in question

    i never watched that debate or speech, so its not fair to ask me to quote it"

    MY RESPONSE - 

    That doesn't mean that you were justified, doing something wrong and justifying yourself by saying you had no knowledge of something is an argument from ignorance which is a fallacy, now I am not going to mark your post because I see where you are coming from, not all fallacies are invalid, anyone who thinks so is guilty of the Fallacist's fallacy.

    JuicyMelonTechjoecavalry
  • MacraeMacrae 18 Pts
    @JuicyMelonTech

    Hello, my name is Macrae and I have discovered this website just a matter of minutes ago. You are the very first individual I've reached out to. First and foremost, I would like to say that I appreciate your open and honest opinion on abortion. I have opposing stances on your argument over this specific topic. Are you interested in hearing them?
    joecavalry
  • VaulkVaulk 290 Pts
    edited August 7
    I'm of the opinion and mindset that aside from Genesis, the creation of life is exclusive to pregnancy.  I'm also of the opinion that the creation of life begins after conception.  Conception is synonymous with fertilization, regarding the egg in the Female's fallopian tubes.  So then if creation occurs upon fertilization, then the stopping of creation cannot be done after that period...it has already occurred.  Life has begun. 

    Onto rape and pregnancies that stand as fatal risk to the Mother.  I'm in agreement with most people that no one should be forced to carry the child of a rapist...there does stand however, the opposing argument for the Child. 

    Who committed the rape?  Answer: The Rapist. 
    Who is the Victim?  Answer: The Mother. 
    Who committed the abortion? Answer: The Mother
    Who is the Victim of the abortion?  Answer: The Child. 
    Is the Rapist affected by the death of the Child?  Answer: No.

    While I know it's not quite as simple as the line of questioning above, this abbreviated reasoning serves as the argument against aborting children that are the result of Rapes.  The Child certainly didn't do anything wrong but neither did the Mother.  So then why don't we weight out the consequences?

    What are the consequences for the Mother?  Answer: She endures the pregnancy or she aborts the Child and does not endure the pregnancy.
    What are the consequences for the Child?  Answer: The child lives or the child dies.

    Who is at risk of suffering the harshest consequences? 

    All of the above however, is the marginal scenario.  For some reason the argument for or against Abortion tends to circulate around this marginal case...and wrongly so.  You cannot use the tiny fraction of cases to justify the vast majority...that's not how logical reasoning works.  If we're to apply logical reasoning to this critical issue then we will need to refrain from referring to this scenario as it does no justice for the debate and at best it's intellectually dishonest.

    joecavalry
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • @vaulk , amazing points you have made in your argument!
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • The fetus isn't considered a life form before the third trimester. It is merely an extension of the mother. Therefore I support abortion before the third trimester. Also abortion shouldn't be off of taxpayers money. You get to pay for your own abortion, unless its rape.
  • VaulkVaulk 290 Pts
    @1Hacker0, I agree entirely that Abortion should never cost the taxpayers a cent unless it's in the case of Rape.  I would have no issue if a fraction of my taxes were taken to support safe and healthy alternatives to Rape Pregnancies (Abortion).  However the idea that a fetus isn't considered a life form before the third trimester is exactly as you say it is, "Considered".  This term is indicative that the idea is not a fact, it is merely a belief.  So we're stuck at the impass of two or more beliefs which contradict each other.  Now I for one believe that everyone's belief (No matter how ideal or contrary it is to my own) deserves to be heard and considered...but I also believe that if we're going to agree as a Nation as to what something ought to be then we're going to have to take it out of the hands of those who are making these choices.  Government should not choose what ought to be, the people should.
    1Hacker0
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • @Vaulk Good point;this is more of a moral argument.

    I personally think in a moral standpoint, that abortion is good before the second trimester. The fetus can't think before a certain point or even feel pain. If the fetus doesn't care then why should we?
  • VaulkVaulk 290 Pts
    edited August 8
    @1Hacker0, This is a good point, I agree that the issue is of a moral nature.  While we have different standpoints I'm glad other people can see that it's not so cut and dry on the matter of life.  The answer to your question though:
    1Hacker0 said:
    The fetus can't think before a certain point or even feel pain. If the fetus doesn't care then why should we?
    I don't personally believe that our Moral fiber is dependent upon whether or not a potential victim cares or is concerned with something that happens to them.  While a grown Woman can't really be compared to a fetus...if she's raped and doesn't care that she was raped...we still exact justice against the perpetrator.  Morality is not dependent upon a victim's standpoint, while we do take into consideration how the victim might feel and it is in fact a attributed variable, I don't believe that the victim's personal feelings can influence whether or not something is immoral. 

    Consider "Pulling the plug".  When a loved one is no longer mentally viable, cannot think or feel for themselves due to any number of Medical issues that plague older people on their deathbed, we as the Family have to consider terminating the remaining biological mass.  If how the loved one feels or thinks is no longer a variable in the issue...why then is it still a moral dilemma to make the choice of halting life support?  Now I've never had to endure this process myself however, it doesn't take much imagination to see that there would undoubtedly be an issue of morality in the decision.  "Is it the right thing to do"?

    Likewise with a fetus, as I've stated before, creation (In my honest opinion) begins at the point fertilization.  So let me pose a question, (EDIT) "Is it possible to kill a fetus"?
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • @Vaulk

    If the victim doesn't care if she was raped, then would it count as rape? It's only rape if the victim didn't have consent. But if the victim doesn't care, then it isn't rape. She just has indifference. Your point with pulling the plug does make sense to me. If the sick person can't think right, then he shouldn't be able to make decisions.

    However, I think it is different when it comes to fetuses. It isn't that fetuses don't care about their lives. It's that they can't care. Just like your hand can't care about its life. Your hand doesn't have the same rights as a person. Just like your hand, a fetus is just an extension. Which is why I think it starts having rights, when it can start thinking and feeling.
  • 1Hacker0 said:
    @Vaulk

    If the victim doesn't care if she was raped, then would it count as rape? It's only rape if the victim didn't have consent. But if the victim doesn't care, then it isn't rape. She just has indifference. Your point with pulling the plug does make sense to me. If the sick person can't think right, then he shouldn't be able to make decisions.

    However, I think it is different when it comes to fetuses. It isn't that fetuses don't care about their lives. It's that they can't care. Just like your hand can't care about its life. Your hand doesn't have the same rights as a person. Just like your hand, a fetus is just an extension. Which is why I think it starts having rights, when it can start thinking and feeling.
    A fetus is a living human being, does your hand have brainwaves? They don't care about their lives the same way a six year old doesn't care about taxes, they are not experienced outside of the womb, its not that they can't care or that they don't care, it's that it doesn't care yet. It's obviously a life, it is not an extension, or a body part, it's a living breathing human being. You cannot say that it is not a life because it's not developed enough, it is not a hand, a hand is part of you, fetuses are not body parts, they are lives, you cannot kill it based on preference
  • 1Hacker01Hacker0 88 Pts
    edited August 9
    @JuicyMelonTech Read my earlier argument. The fetus doesn't have brain waves before the second trimester. They don't have a mind. A six year old can think and feel. If fetuses are given rights, then why not sperm cells? Sperm cells do not have a mind either, but eventually they will start to care about their lives too, just like a fetus. One of them is just in an earlier development stage.

    If abortion is murder, then ejaculation is genocide.

    Snippet from my earlier argument: I personally think in a moral standpoint, that abortion is good before the second trimester. The fetus can't think before a certain point or even feel pain.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Website!

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
2017 DebateIsland.com, All rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Awesome Debates
BestDealWins.com
Terms of Service

Get In Touch