frame
Howdy Debater!
Sign In Register


Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Obama is a Christian?

I got into this discussion ONCE on DDO.  It didn't go well.  I said I did not think President Obama is a Christian, and he is most likely a Muslim or a disingenuous atheist who wears many religious hats.  Also, according to polls back then, a large number of Americans believed he was a Muslim or blatantly said "I don't know what he is."
The response from another DDO user was literally, "Okaaayyy......"  as if I were totally nuts and it were very obvious what his religion actually is.  It ISN'T, but then again I have been known to have higher than normal cranial density, so I'm hoping someone here could make an effective, reasoned argument that President Obama is what he says he is.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155315/many-americans-cant-name-obamas-religion.aspx

Any takers?
joecavalrynorthsouthkorea
  1. What religion is Pres. Obama?5 votes
    1. Christian
      40.00%
    2. Muslim
      40.00%
    3. Athiest, pretending for publicity.
      20.00%

Comments

  • Obama is an African American, Christian President. He has been raised as a Christian and put his hand on the Bible when he got sworn in, even 2 times. He had raised his daughters and christians as well and seems to be commuted to his Christian religion.
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • RodinonRodinon 57 Pts
    @joecavalry
    Howdy, Joe. Your claims run against some things I understand about him.  I thought he had a Muslim father and an Atheist mother.  Under Islam, if your father is Muslim, you are automatically counted as one as well.  Conversion is not permitted.  (Practiced, yes.)  At what point did he convert to Christianity?  Who raised him as such?

    People put their hand on the Bible all the time when swearing legal oaths.  I don't buy for a second that every person who swore on a Bible to enter public office has been a Christian.  Who would feel the weight of lying while putting their hand on something?  The one who believes in it, or the one who doesn't?  I hear atheists and non-religious people "swear to God" all the time.  Doesn't mean anything to them.

    I don't really see that commitment.  He supports abortion.  Privately looks down upon those who "cling to their Bibles" when times are hard.  Publicly criticizes Protestants for the Crusades?  Publicly supports homosexuality and anarchy.  He also lied to me.  I was REALLY REALLY hoping to keep my plan.  Nope.  $220 dollars per month with a $7000 deductible one month.  The next, $860 per month with a $12,000 deductible the next.


    northsouthkorea
  • Rodinon said:
    @joecavalry
    Howdy, Joe. Your claims run against some things I understand about him.  I thought he had a Muslim father and an Atheist mother.  Under Islam, if your father is Muslim, you are automatically counted as one as well.  Conversion is not permitted.  (Practiced, yes.)  At what point did he convert to Christianity?  Who raised him as such?

    People put their hand on the Bible all the time when swearing legal oaths.  I don't buy for a second that every person who swore on a Bible to enter public office has been a Christian.  Who would feel the weight of lying while putting their hand on something?  The one who believes in it, or the one who doesn't?  I hear atheists and non-religious people "swear to God" all the time.  Doesn't mean anything to them.

    I don't really see that commitment.  He supports abortion.  Privately looks down upon those who "cling to their Bibles" when times are hard.  Publicly criticizes Protestants for the Crusades?  Publicly supports homosexuality and anarchy.  He also lied to me.  I was REALLY REALLY hoping to keep my plan.  Nope.  $220 dollars per month with a $7000 deductible one month.  The next, $860 per month with a $12,000 deductible the next.

    Father is Muslim

    The argument that Obama's father is Muslim makes Obama an automatic Muslim has two big problems:

    1) This only applies to children. Once a child reaches puberty, they can make up their own mind about their religion. "'When the young boy reaches puberty, he is given the choice between taking on the religion of his father or that of his mother. Whichever he chooses, it becomes his religion."'

    2) Even if the above wasn't the case, this only applies if you yourself implicitly believe in Muslim religious beliefs over fundamental human rights. The US Constitution grants the right to Freedom of Religion and under US law adults choose what denomination they follow and can change at will. If you believe in the US constitution then people with Muslim parents can choose for themselves what their beliefs they follow, the only reason you would believe otherwise is if you personally hold the Quran to be more important than the Constitution.

    No Incontrovertible proof to the opposite

    You're right to say that Obama swearing ont he bible doesn't automatically make him Christian. However he doesn't need to prove he's Christian. When someone tells you your religious beliefs (like Obama being Christian) they don't need to prove that to you. To say they aren't is to accuse them of being a liar, a serious accusation you need to back up. It isn't an area where there is expected to be dispute unless someone can bring hard proof to the opposite. It's not on Obama to prove his Christianity, it's on anyone who doubts it to prove his lack of Christianity.

    Acceptence of abortion, homosexuality, etc

    This seems to be an argument for him not being exactly the same type of Christian as you, not him not being a Christian, There are many Christian denominations holding to a wide variety of beliefs. As far as I am aware, none of the things you mention in any way exclude someone from being Christian.

    Lots of people think he is Muslim

    Argumentum ad populem logical fallacy.

    northsouthkoreaRodinon
  • Ibama is a Muslim due to his father being a Muslim and Obama shouldn't hve covered that up. Maybe it's a democratic thing to cover stuff up, like Hillary and Obama.
  • @AlwaysCorrect

    You make many valid points:  

    Just because his father was a Muslim, does not mean that he is as well.
    Claiming to be a Christian is not to be called into doubt without evidence.....(more on that later)
    Beliefs on specific issues do not discount one as a believer...(more on that later)
    Yes, that CAN be an ad populem argument, that many others are confused, but I did not intend it that way.  I brought up the polling to show that I'm not the only one to be confused.  That doesn't make me right, but I'm not an isolated case to be dismissed, as the other DDO user did.  A lot of effort has been expended by many journalists to defend the President's claims on his own religion.  That's all I meant there.

    Why I'm not convinced yet:

    Obama may believe in God, and even fancy himself a Christian, but his actions and attitudes are very much not what I would expect from one.  If someone says they are a Christian, they WILL make mistakes and do things wrong here and there, but with him, I see many actions that I find downright deplorable, and no sign of regret for doing them.

    Let's start with some lies:


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/obama-promised-transparency-but-his-administration-is-one-of-the-most-secretive/2016/05/24/5a46caba-21c1-11e6-9e7f-57890b612299_story.html?utm_term=.c092bf3d1167



    Or were they just incompetencies?  Currently, I have a hard time believing that.  The ACA had already been written, and Obama didn't say "Oops, sorry, I was incorrect about that," or "I"m sorry, we won't be able to do everything I promised because of X."  Especially with the ACA, he insisted he said something with a caveat which he had never previously mentioned.  His signature bill had long been written.  And someone who wrote that part of the bill surely could have privately corrected him.
    It was well known that the ACA was written in an opaque and intentionally deceptive manner.  
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Gruber_(economist)#.22Grubergate.22_videos_controversy
    Yet the president never backed down from the ACA, specifically the deceptive parts.  


    I don't like being overloaded with things to respond to, so I will get to the positions on moral topics and attitude indicators later, so as not to overload you.

  • @Rodinon

    Why wouldn't a Christian lie? All Christians are meant to be sinners who are redeemened through their belief in Jesus. You can have mass murderers who are Christians. Lying doesn't mean someone is not a Christian.

    As it says in Romans

     "“There is no one righteous, not even one;"
    ...
     “Their throats are open graves;
        their tongues practice deceit.”
    ...

    " for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 
    24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

    Indeed, didn't Jesus say "let he who is without Sin cast the first stone"? Isn't it "Unchristian" of you to cast aspersions on another person's Christianity for failing and being sinful as all mankind is meant to me? Should we therefore doubt your Christianity?

    I mean that's if you accept those as lies at all. I didn't sit through every one, but a lot of it just seemed to be politically charged accusations. Like the first video says that obvious there hasn't been an Obama recovery because the unemployment rate has been above 8% for however many months. The thing is the unemployment rate actually spiked to 10% as a result of the 2008 crisis. Under Obama's presidency that unemployment rate  turned around at the end of 2009 and continually decreased. It's not that the economy wasn't recovering, it's that this video from RepublicanSenators has a stake in presenting Obama as bad.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

Debate Anything on DebateIsland.com

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
2017 DebateIsland.com, All rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Awesome Debates
Terms of Service

Get In Touch