frame
Howdy Debater!
Sign In Register


Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The famous google memo

edited August 12 in Politics
Have Fun.
I am sure most of you have heard about the famed google memo written by former senior google engineer James Damore, stating that he disagrees with racial quotas, and google shouldn't find ways to lower the bar for women, that we shouldn't take gender into account when it comes to making hiring decisions, and that we should instead look at the individual. He explains the disparity between men and women in the tech industry, stating the biological differences between men and women, claiming that women on average have more empathizing brains, while men on average have more systemizing brains. This explains why women dominate the medical and teaching fields, because they empathize more and generally value cooperation more, while men dominate things like programming and business, as they enjoy logical systems. This does not mean that all men have the systemizing brain, or that all women have the empathizing brain, this is simply on average.

The left is particularly upset about this issue because they mis-interpret the actual memo itself (which you can read here: https://drive.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf)
Many leftist news sites claim that Damore is sexist and that he wants less women in tech, however if you read the actual memo you will see that he devotes an entire page to diversity and talks about other ways to get women into tech. One site proclaims that some women who worked at google
didn't go to work after reading the memo (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/07/542020041/google-grapples-with-fallout-after-employee-slams-diversity-efforts?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170807)
however this only proves Damore's point. I am NOT saying that one gender is superior to the other, i am instead agreeing with Damore that women and men have biological differences that need to be acknowledged. 

In conclusion, we have to accept the biological differences between men and women, we also have to acknowledge that no one gender is superior. I do agree that sexism exists, but there is no "patriarchal conspiracy" to keep women out of tech. I fully support any woman that wants to get into tech, and i would love to see more women in tech,  however i do not agree that people should be hired because of their gender, or that the bar should be set lower for a gender. We are all people, yet we all have differences. We must accept those differences, rather then ignore them, we should embrace them, not reject them. To any women reading this, know that your gender does not mean that you can't have the same jobs as men, or that you are inferior, or superior, but rather you are different, isn't difference the whole point of diversity?

With that i invite anyone to debate against me, with my rules in mind
1. no ad hominem
2. no character or identity arguments
3. Have Fun and enjoy <span>:wink:</span>  
billpassedSilverishGoldNovakmelkevolution17
About Persuade Me

Persuaded Argument

Comments

  • billpassedbillpassed 59 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @JuicyMelonTech , thanks and will enjoy! 

    <Main Argument>
    The Google engineer who released the memo regarding racism at Google is not accurate.

    This memo could have been put out by the reporter to gain traction  and give HR and PR departments at Google a good run and possibly rehire the former employee.


  • @JuicyMelonTech , thanks and will enjoy! 

    <Main Argument>
    The Google engineer who released the memo regarding racism at Google is not accurate.

    This memo could have been put out by the reporter to gain traction  and give HR and PR  departments at Google a good run and possibly rehire the former employee.


    It was regarding sexism, not racism, and it was factually correct, as science will support his claims. This could not have been for PR because that's just stupid, it brings down the companies rep. 
  • agsragsr 498 PtsPremium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    Premium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    We live in a politically charged environment. It was relly poor judgement for that Google engineer to write such a provocative memo.  He should have realized that posting internally at Google as a large enterprise exposes it to large number of people, google HR department, etc. It would be a shock if it wouldn't get out externally.  
    I personally think it's too speculative  to argue that women in general wouldn't be good at engineering because of biological reasons. It is very true that we see that mix today, and also may see general patterns of strength and weaknesses between the two sexes, but....We see so many exceptions and such memos discourage and try to label people in boxes, which is not the right thing to do.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • Eh, it's just another poor attempt to use "BIOTRUTHS!" to explain gender discrimination.

    If you'll read the memo you'll note that he doesn't actually back up his claims. He makes massive leaps of logic from "A study shows Women are better at empathy" to "And therefore they can't program as well as men" with no logical gap inbetween. Others are completely unsupported and thought out, like the claims about men's status.
    SilverishGoldNova
  • agsr said:
    We live in a politically charged environment. It was relly poor judgement for that Google engineer to write such a provocative memo.  He should have realized that posting internally at Google as a large enterprise exposes it to large number of people, google HR department, etc. It would be a shock if it wouldn't get out externally.  
    I personally think it's too speculative  to argue that women in general wouldn't be good at engineering because of biological reasons. It is very true that we see that mix today, and also may see general patterns of strength and weaknesses between the two sexes, but....We see so many exceptions and such memos discourage and try to label people in boxes, which is not the right thing to do.
    no, if you actually read the memo, he wasn't trying to say that women shouldn't get into engineering, he was simply stating that google shouldn't go along with their plans to lower the bar for women. He is saying that whether you are a woman or a man, we should have the same standards and hire based on characteristics and skill. Google was trying to discriminate against men, so they could have an equal number of women and men.
    This shouldn't be the case, we shouldn't care what gender you are, or try to lower the bar for a group of people because we need "equal representation"

    AlwaysCorrect said:
    Eh, it's just another poor attempt to use "BIOTRUTHS!" to explain gender discrimination.

    If you'll read the memo you'll note that he doesn't actually back up his claims. He makes massive leaps of logic from "A study shows Women are better at empathy" to "And therefore they can't program as well as men" with no logical gap inbetween. Others are completely unsupported and thought out, like the claims about men's status.
    Ok he never said  that women CAN'T program as well as men. He is simply stating biological facts that explain gender disparity. He is just saying that ON AVERAGE women are interested in different things then men, he includes links to scientific systemizing vs empathizing papers. Its not that they cant program as well as men, its just that on average, they don't seem to be interested in tech as much as men. He also states non misandrist ways to get women into tech, such as the fact that women are better with people, better at cooperating, if there was truly a "patriarchal conspiracy" to keep women out of work, why isn't there one in the medical and STEM fields, where women dominate?  If there was truly discrimination in the hiring process, then that company would go out of business, because they don't take the best people, and it takes longer to find them. 

    The truth is, to quote Ben shapiro (watched him a lot after snakesofferingapples mentioned him) "Facts don't care about feelings"
    kmelkevolution171Hacker0
  • @JuicyMelonTech I appeal for you to include this argument as your 2nd "winning argument" for this "Persuade Me" Debate. Thank you for the consideration towards my Debate appeal.

    The memo of which the ex-Google employee who was fired is innacurate, calling many fallacies and doesn't prove Social Justice. Google is a company in audition to many others which tries its hardest to promote more diverse demographics. The employee was most likely trying to get back at Google for his firing and possibly trying to scare the HR  and PR departments at Google.


  • The "lowering the bar" for women is sexist both against men and women. Its implying that women are stupid, and denies men basic rights.

    I agree with him in the fact that women dominate more in empathetic jobs, but there is also one more difference between men and women when getting jobs. Women are also more likely to get jobs where they can make their own schedules. In these job areas they even out with men, unlike other jobs where schedules are tight. Some of these jobs include research, art, writing, etc. This is because women do most of the household chores and don't enough time for their jobs. So if you want to even it out, then encourage men to do household chores, instead of implementing imaginary oppression. Of course we can't completely fix the problem because women get pregnant, but it gets closer.
  • edited August 17
    1Hacker0 said:
    The "lowering the bar" for women is sexist both against men and women. Its implying that women are stupid, and denies men basic rights.

    I agree with him in the fact that women dominate more in empathetic jobs, but there is also one more difference between men and women when getting jobs. Women are also more likely to get jobs where they can make their own schedules. In these job areas they even out with men, unlike other jobs where schedules are tight. Some of these jobs include research, art, writing, etc. This is because women do most of the household chores and don't enough time for their jobs. So if you want to even it out, then encourage men to do household chores, instead of implementing imaginary oppression. Of course we can't completely fix the problem because women get pregnant, but it gets closer.
    To be honest, I believe that equal representation is not really a problem to be solved. There doesn't seem to hiring discrimination, and I believe equality of opportunity is in effect, here in America. I don't think that evening it out should really be a focus for anyone. there is no "oppression" so I do not believe we should try to force women into tech or men into teaching,  in a free world everyone is free to choose their occupations and forge their careers. Gender disparities between occupations does not mean It is an effect of oppression. Equal representation is not a problem in my eyes. Let people Be people. Women can, and reserve the right to go into tech, however we should not force them into it. 


    I do agree with you that men should also learn household chores. 
    1Hacker0
Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

Debate Anything on DebateIsland.com

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
2017 DebateIsland.com, All rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Awesome Debates
Terms of Service

Get In Touch