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Feminist intersectionality is absurd

edited August 11 in Politics
One of the postmodernist delusions is the concept of intersectionality, namely the ways in which “oppressive institutions” (racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, classism, etc.) are interconnected and can not be examined separately. It is more critical theory nonsense and, just like the latter, it enjoys a lot of popularity, since it eases victimhood in several orders of magnitude, it only takes someone having any ‘oppressor’ or ‘privileged’ trait to dismiss anything they say (the most popular one is mansplaining: to say that something is wrong, or has no validity, just because it is asserted by a man).

The notion that ideas should be judged not by the idea itself, but the race, gender, religion and sexual orientation of the person who is sharing said idea is absurd. So if you are a Black transgender woman, then anything you say is supposedly far greater than anything a white man says. 
Intersectionality is essentially reverse sexism and racism, in which the more minority groups you are in, the better your ideas are, This is abhorrent and wrong. Ideas should be judged by the idea itself, not the person stating the idea.  Anyone who dares to oppose and defend a system of discrimination, i urge you to present your arguments in a rational fashion

P.S this one is on a phone, so i could not write that much, please forgive my brief opening statement
kmelkevolution17Vaulkjoecavalrywalterba

Comments

  • Yes, this is completely true. Civil rights have been pushed to the side which might have them for less when it comes too many factors such as jobs and full opinions.

    @JuicyMelonTech, no problem in regards to your opening statement.
  • This misrepresents what intersectionality is. Intersectionality is "the interconnected nature of social categorizations such as race, class, and gender as they apply to a given individual or group, regarded as creating overlapping and interdependent systems of discrimination or disadvantage."

    So for one, it isn't innately feminist, you can look at how race and class connect for instance without focusing on gender.

    Also it doesn't say that you can't examine separate issues by themselves, but that doesn't mean examining issues in isolation gives you the full picture. 

    The rest is just the usual "feminazi" mindless whining.
    VaulkJuicyMelonTech
  • VaulkVaulk 209 Pts
    edited August 13
    I can easily see that while @JuicyMelonTech didn't specify "Feminist" instersectionality each time the reference of intersectionality was made, it's implied through the title of the debate.  Therefor there has been no misrepresentation of what intersectionality is.  One could argue that Feminist Intersectionality has been misrepresented in this case but that would require evidence or logical reasoning that shows that Feminism doesn't hold the OP's listed ideology.  There also isn't a reference anywhere in the OP's opening argument that states "Intersectionality is innately feminist", instead @JuicyMelonTech is making a statement specifically about "Feminist" Intersectionality.  An example of this would be the difference between Conservatism and Roman Catholic Conservatism.

    While I can agree that @JuicyMelonTech hasn't necessarily provided proof or substantial evidence that Feminism is characterized by this ideology...I doubt you'd find many people here that would disagree.  3rd wave Feminism has a bad reputation for being characterized by angry, man-hating feminazis and there's no secret Man-archy out there that's filling everyone's head with that idea.  Feminists are doing a great job all by themselves of making the movement look like an angry mob of fat lesbians who are out to crush Men.

    Consider the following polls and explanations.  You'll see a distinct pattern that a majority of Americans aren't willing to either agree with Feminism or accept the Label but for some reason still agree that Men and Women should have equality in all aspects.  Feminism is the advocacy of Women's Rights on the basis of equality of the sexes and while polls show that a vast majority of the U.S. agrees in the idea of Women's Rights and equality of the sexes...they don't agree with Feminism.  Might I offer that this is because Feminism has transformed over the years from a passionate movement for Women's Rights into an ugly, nasty hateful movement characterized by mean Women who shriek and scream at people that simply disagree with them?

    http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/04/09/82-percent-of-americans-dont-consider-themselves-feminists-poll-shows/
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/6715/feminism-whats-name.aspx
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/25/poll-most-americans-think-feminism-is-too-extreme/
    https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/02/23/less-than-third-women-feminists/

    I only know a few people who are proud feminists...and they're all insufferable Women with extreme ideas about how Men are the root of all evil, Men are on the warpath to force women into domestic slavery, and Women can't rise up to greatness in our society because Men are oppressing them.  IF Feminism truly is a good thing, then it's a shame that the Feminists who appear in the Media are screwing it up for the good ones...who coincidentally I've never met.
    If you don't look at any of the polls, look at this.



    joecavalryJuicyMelonTech1Hacker0
  • @vaulk , wonderful argument and I agree with your stance.
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • edited August 13
  • Vaulk said:
    I can easily see that while @JuicyMelonTech didn't specify "Feminist" instersectionality each time the reference of intersectionality was made, it's implied through the title of the debate.  Therefor there has been no misrepresentation of what intersectionality is.  One could argue that Feminist Intersectionality has been misrepresented in this case but that would require evidence or logical reasoning that shows that Feminism doesn't hold the OP's listed ideology.  There also isn't a reference anywhere in the OP's opening argument that states "Intersectionality is innately feminist", instead @JuicyMelonTech is making a statement specifically about "Feminist" Intersectionality.  An example of this would be the difference between Conservatism and Roman Catholic Conservatism.

    I can't believe I'm having to type this out, but the definition of what something is isn't what someone decides to put in the title of an online forum post. It is based on actual reality.

    While I can agree that @JuicyMelonTech hasn't necessarily provided proof or substantial evidence that Feminism is characterized by this ideology...I doubt you'd find many people here that would disagree.  3rd wave Feminism has a bad reputation for being characterized by angry, man-hating feminazis and there's no secret Man-archy out there that's filling everyone's head with that idea.  Feminists are doing a great job all by themselves of making the movement look like an angry mob of fat lesbians who are out to crush Men.

    Consider the following polls and explanations.  You'll see a distinct pattern that a majority of Americans aren't willing to either agree with Feminism or accept the Label but for some reason still agree that Men and Women should have equality in all aspects.  Feminism is the advocacy of Women's Rights on the basis of equality of the sexes and while polls show that a vast majority of the U.S. agrees in the idea of Women's Rights and equality of the sexes...they don't agree with Feminism.  Might I offer that this is because Feminism has transformed over the years from a passionate movement for Women's Rights into an ugly, nasty hateful movement characterized by mean Women who shriek and scream at people that simply disagree with them?

    http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/04/09/82-percent-of-americans-dont-consider-themselves-feminists-poll-shows/
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/6715/feminism-whats-name.aspx
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/25/poll-most-americans-think-feminism-is-too-extreme/
    https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/02/23/less-than-third-women-feminists/

    I only know a few people who are proud feminists...and they're all insufferable Women with extreme ideas about how Men are the root of all evil, Men are on the warpath to force women into domestic slavery, and Women can't rise up to greatness in our society because Men are oppressing them.  IF Feminism truly is a good thing, then it's a shame that the Feminists who appear in the Media are screwing it up for the good ones...who coincidentally I've never met.
    If you don't look at any of the polls, look at this.

    There doesn't really seem to really be a valid argument here. The only point you're making is that feminism doesn't have widespread popular support which is an entirely separate line of discussion and an argumentum ad populum. If the only thing that can be pointed out about feminism is that people don't like it, but no actual criticisms can be made of the ideology, belief, practices, etc of feminism itself then that sounds pretty good to me and makes me proud to be a feminist.

    I could do a point by point response to the video, but really it just makes the same kind of illogical arguments. Oh no, a video of one feminist saying angry unfair stuff! Obviously we should assume that this one example which was so extreme and non-normal as to be newsworthy is representative of the norm! A dozen people saying they don't like feminism - again, ad populum.
    JuicyMelonTech
  • VaulkVaulk 209 Pts
    edited August 15
    Anyone want to weigh in on this?
  • edited August 16
    Vaulk said:
    I can easily see that while @JuicyMelonTech didn't specify "Feminist" instersectionality each time the reference of intersectionality was made, it's implied through the title of the debate.  Therefor there has been no misrepresentation of what intersectionality is.  One could argue that Feminist Intersectionality has been misrepresented in this case but that would require evidence or logical reasoning that shows that Feminism doesn't hold the OP's listed ideology.  There also isn't a reference anywhere in the OP's opening argument that states "Intersectionality is innately feminist", instead @JuicyMelonTech is making a statement specifically about "Feminist" Intersectionality.  An example of this would be the difference between Conservatism and Roman Catholic Conservatism.

    I can't believe I'm having to type this out, but the definition of what something is isn't what someone decides to put in the title of an online forum post. It is based on actual reality.

    While I can agree that @JuicyMelonTech hasn't necessarily provided proof or substantial evidence that Feminism is characterized by this ideology...I doubt you'd find many people here that would disagree.  3rd wave Feminism has a bad reputation for being characterized by angry, man-hating feminazis and there's no secret Man-archy out there that's filling everyone's head with that idea.  Feminists are doing a great job all by themselves of making the movement look like an angry mob of fat lesbians who are out to crush Men.

    Consider the following polls and explanations.  You'll see a distinct pattern that a majority of Americans aren't willing to either agree with Feminism or accept the Label but for some reason still agree that Men and Women should have equality in all aspects.  Feminism is the advocacy of Women's Rights on the basis of equality of the sexes and while polls show that a vast majority of the U.S. agrees in the idea of Women's Rights and equality of the sexes...they don't agree with Feminism.  Might I offer that this is because Feminism has transformed over the years from a passionate movement for Women's Rights into an ugly, nasty hateful movement characterized by mean Women who shriek and scream at people that simply disagree with them?

    http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/04/09/82-percent-of-americans-dont-consider-themselves-feminists-poll-shows/
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/6715/feminism-whats-name.aspx
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/25/poll-most-americans-think-feminism-is-too-extreme/
    https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/02/23/less-than-third-women-feminists/

    I only know a few people who are proud feminists...and they're all insufferable Women with extreme ideas about how Men are the root of all evil, Men are on the warpath to force women into domestic slavery, and Women can't rise up to greatness in our society because Men are oppressing them.  IF Feminism truly is a good thing, then it's a shame that the Feminists who appear in the Media are screwing it up for the good ones...who coincidentally I've never met.
    If you don't look at any of the polls, look at this.

    There doesn't really seem to really be a valid argument here. The only point you're making is that feminism doesn't have widespread popular support which is an entirely separate line of discussion and an argumentum ad populum. If the only thing that can be pointed out about feminism is that people don't like it, but no actual criticisms can be made of the ideology, belief, practices, etc of feminism itself then that sounds pretty good to me and makes me proud to be a feminist.

    I could do a point by point response to the video, but really it just makes the same kind of illogical arguments. Oh no, a video of one feminist saying angry unfair stuff! Obviously we should assume that this one example which was so extreme and non-normal as to be newsworthy is representative of the norm! A dozen people saying they don't like feminism - again, ad populum.
    I think we are getting off topic here, I'm criticizing intersectionality as an ideology because it's immoral and perpetuates discrimination.

    if you read the definition of intersectionality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality) You will find a frankly hideous ideology. You are supposed to defend the ideology of feminist intersectionality itself, not simply point out small fallacies in others work. I presume you are relying on this because you cannot defend intersectionality as an ideology. I urge you to complete an argument without resorting to an argument from fallacy
  • Vaulk said:
    I can easily see that while @JuicyMelonTech didn't specify "Feminist" instersectionality each time the reference of intersectionality was made, it's implied through the title of the debate.  Therefor there has been no misrepresentation of what intersectionality is.  One could argue that Feminist Intersectionality has been misrepresented in this case but that would require evidence or logical reasoning that shows that Feminism doesn't hold the OP's listed ideology.  There also isn't a reference anywhere in the OP's opening argument that states "Intersectionality is innately feminist", instead @JuicyMelonTech is making a statement specifically about "Feminist" Intersectionality.  An example of this would be the difference between Conservatism and Roman Catholic Conservatism.

    I can't believe I'm having to type this out, but the definition of what something is isn't what someone decides to put in the title of an online forum post. It is based on actual reality.

    While I can agree that @JuicyMelonTech hasn't necessarily provided proof or substantial evidence that Feminism is characterized by this ideology...I doubt you'd find many people here that would disagree.  3rd wave Feminism has a bad reputation for being characterized by angry, man-hating feminazis and there's no secret Man-archy out there that's filling everyone's head with that idea.  Feminists are doing a great job all by themselves of making the movement look like an angry mob of fat lesbians who are out to crush Men.

    Consider the following polls and explanations.  You'll see a distinct pattern that a majority of Americans aren't willing to either agree with Feminism or accept the Label but for some reason still agree that Men and Women should have equality in all aspects.  Feminism is the advocacy of Women's Rights on the basis of equality of the sexes and while polls show that a vast majority of the U.S. agrees in the idea of Women's Rights and equality of the sexes...they don't agree with Feminism.  Might I offer that this is because Feminism has transformed over the years from a passionate movement for Women's Rights into an ugly, nasty hateful movement characterized by mean Women who shriek and scream at people that simply disagree with them?

    http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/04/09/82-percent-of-americans-dont-consider-themselves-feminists-poll-shows/
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/6715/feminism-whats-name.aspx
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/25/poll-most-americans-think-feminism-is-too-extreme/
    https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/02/23/less-than-third-women-feminists/

    I only know a few people who are proud feminists...and they're all insufferable Women with extreme ideas about how Men are the root of all evil, Men are on the warpath to force women into domestic slavery, and Women can't rise up to greatness in our society because Men are oppressing them.  IF Feminism truly is a good thing, then it's a shame that the Feminists who appear in the Media are screwing it up for the good ones...who coincidentally I've never met.
    If you don't look at any of the polls, look at this.

    There doesn't really seem to really be a valid argument here. The only point you're making is that feminism doesn't have widespread popular support which is an entirely separate line of discussion and an argumentum ad populum. If the only thing that can be pointed out about feminism is that people don't like it, but no actual criticisms can be made of the ideology, belief, practices, etc of feminism itself then that sounds pretty good to me and makes me proud to be a feminist.

    I could do a point by point response to the video, but really it just makes the same kind of illogical arguments. Oh no, a video of one feminist saying angry unfair stuff! Obviously we should assume that this one example which was so extreme and non-normal as to be newsworthy is representative of the norm! A dozen people saying they don't like feminism - again, ad populum.
    I think we are getting off topic here, I'm criticizing intersectionality as an ideology because it's immoral and perpetuates discrimination.

    if you read the definition of intersectionality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality) You will find a frankly hideous ideology. You are supposed to defend the ideology of feminist intersectionality itself, not simply point out small fallacies in others work. I presume you are relying on this because you cannot defend intersectionality as an ideology. I urge you to complete an argument without resorting to an argument from fallacy

    You used the phrase "actual reality".
    This whole debate is based on conceptual unreality.
    JuicyMelonTech
  • Vaulk said:
    I can easily see that while @JuicyMelonTech didn't specify "Feminist" instersectionality each time the reference of intersectionality was made, it's implied through the title of the debate.  Therefor there has been no misrepresentation of what intersectionality is.  One could argue that Feminist Intersectionality has been misrepresented in this case but that would require evidence or logical reasoning that shows that Feminism doesn't hold the OP's listed ideology.  There also isn't a reference anywhere in the OP's opening argument that states "Intersectionality is innately feminist", instead @JuicyMelonTech is making a statement specifically about "Feminist" Intersectionality.  An example of this would be the difference between Conservatism and Roman Catholic Conservatism.

    I can't believe I'm having to type this out, but the definition of what something is isn't what someone decides to put in the title of an online forum post. It is based on actual reality.

    While I can agree that @JuicyMelonTech hasn't necessarily provided proof or substantial evidence that Feminism is characterized by this ideology...I doubt you'd find many people here that would disagree.  3rd wave Feminism has a bad reputation for being characterized by angry, man-hating feminazis and there's no secret Man-archy out there that's filling everyone's head with that idea.  Feminists are doing a great job all by themselves of making the movement look like an angry mob of fat lesbians who are out to crush Men.

    Consider the following polls and explanations.  You'll see a distinct pattern that a majority of Americans aren't willing to either agree with Feminism or accept the Label but for some reason still agree that Men and Women should have equality in all aspects.  Feminism is the advocacy of Women's Rights on the basis of equality of the sexes and while polls show that a vast majority of the U.S. agrees in the idea of Women's Rights and equality of the sexes...they don't agree with Feminism.  Might I offer that this is because Feminism has transformed over the years from a passionate movement for Women's Rights into an ugly, nasty hateful movement characterized by mean Women who shriek and scream at people that simply disagree with them?

    http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/04/09/82-percent-of-americans-dont-consider-themselves-feminists-poll-shows/
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/6715/feminism-whats-name.aspx
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/25/poll-most-americans-think-feminism-is-too-extreme/
    https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/02/23/less-than-third-women-feminists/

    I only know a few people who are proud feminists...and they're all insufferable Women with extreme ideas about how Men are the root of all evil, Men are on the warpath to force women into domestic slavery, and Women can't rise up to greatness in our society because Men are oppressing them.  IF Feminism truly is a good thing, then it's a shame that the Feminists who appear in the Media are screwing it up for the good ones...who coincidentally I've never met.
    If you don't look at any of the polls, look at this.

    There doesn't really seem to really be a valid argument here. The only point you're making is that feminism doesn't have widespread popular support which is an entirely separate line of discussion and an argumentum ad populum. If the only thing that can be pointed out about feminism is that people don't like it, but no actual criticisms can be made of the ideology, belief, practices, etc of feminism itself then that sounds pretty good to me and makes me proud to be a feminist.

    I could do a point by point response to the video, but really it just makes the same kind of illogical arguments. Oh no, a video of one feminist saying angry unfair stuff! Obviously we should assume that this one example which was so extreme and non-normal as to be newsworthy is representative of the norm! A dozen people saying they don't like feminism - again, ad populum.
    I think we are getting off topic here, I'm criticizing intersectionality as an ideology because it's immoral and perpetuates discrimination.

    if you read the definition of intersectionality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality) You will find a frankly hideous ideology. You are supposed to defend the ideology of feminist intersectionality itself, not simply point out small fallacies in others work. I presume you are relying on this because you cannot defend intersectionality as an ideology. I urge you to complete an argument without resorting to an argument from fallacy

    You used the phrase "actual reality".
    This whole debate is based on conceptual unreality.
    i agree, it has gone quite out of hand
    walterba
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