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Would cheaper Nest be a popular product?

Opening Argument

agsragsr 539 PtsPremium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
Nest is a leading smart thermostat, but many resist it due to a steep price tag.  There are rumors that a cheaper sub $200 version is coming, but will that take off?
http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/08/19/new-nest-thermostat/

I would say that unless the cheper version is sub $100, it will essentially still target he same set of consumers and will just cannibalize sales from the main version. Often going on sale anyway, current version is also often available below $200 anyway.  
If that is the new design as mentioned in the article, I am not crazy about that design anyway.
joecavalrynorthsouthkoreanatbarons
  1. Would cheaper Nest be a popular product?

    4 votes
    1. Yes
        0.00%
    2. No
      100.00%
Live Long and Prosper

Status: Open Debate

Arguments

  • Yes, a cheaper Nest product would increase the audience for the thermostat product and collection.
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • agsragsr 539 PtsPremium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    Premium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    @joecavalry, while I agree that a much cheaper version would make a difference, just a sightly cheaper version is unlikely to help. That is not disruptive enough
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    I don't think it has a very wide customer base to begin with.  The gadget freaks might like it, but they're likely to buy it relatively regardless of the cost.  I'm not sure how many other people want to worry about setting up sensors and a phone app for their thermostat.  Home ownership isn't a priority for the young generation, and a lot of the old generation is happy with a flip-phone if they have any cell phone at all.
    love2debatenorthsouthkorea
  • @CYDdharta, excellent argument.  Based on these demographic preference split, trying to further carve out the market is problematic
    northsouthkorea
  • Nest is having a fair amount of competition which i some competitors could possibly beat their price. A price drop would help their sales and also be helpful for them.
  • agsragsr 539 PtsPremium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    Premium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    @northsouthkorea, it is true that they are not the only ones. Ecobee is the closest competitor and in similar price range. There are pros and cons of both products.  The issue is that nest is not looking to lower the price, but introduce a watered down version instead
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    agsr said:
    @northsouthkorea, it is true that they are not the only ones. Ecobee is the closest competitor and in similar price range. There are pros and cons of both products.  The issue is that nest is not looking to lower the price, but introduce a watered down version instead
    Um, Honeywell has a programmable thermostat that's less than 1/10th the price of Nest, and doesn't require an app or sensors. 
    natbarons
  • Nest should take its price down to get into multiple condition markets.
  • agsragsr 539 PtsPremium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    Premium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    @CYDdharta, the honeywell thermostat is a very different product. It is not self learning, cheaper models cant be controlled via wifi (phone), it doesnt sense when you are in-out of the house.  
    Live Long and Prosper
  • agsragsr 539 PtsPremium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    Premium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    @natbarons, but would they cannibalize their own sales? 
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    agsr said:
    @CYDdharta, the honeywell thermostat is a very different product. It is not self learning, cheaper models cant be controlled via wifi (phone), it doesnt sense when you are in-out of the house.  

    Absolutely correct, but that's the point.  We don't have to train the Honeywell thermostat, we don't need to set up an app, and we don't need to worry that someone who broke into our house while we're away is keeping tabs on where we're at using the thermostat's tracking feature.  I'm a home owner.  One of the reasons I bought the place was for privacy.  I really don't want my thermostat keeping track of me.  I don't want to be bothered to train it.  If the Honeywell had those features, I doubt I'd use them.  I'm gen X, I used to work in IT, so I'm not averse to tech, I just don't see the point of Nest, especially at 10x-15x the price of a Honeywell thermostat.
    agsr
  • agsragsr 539 PtsPremium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    Premium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    @CYDdharta, all very good points.  A few counters:
    1) you don't train nest - it auto trains itself.  No need to set a schedule.
    2) it acrually saves you money vs programmable thermostat - that is a key reason why people buy thermostats 
    3) ability to control away from home is a useful feature for many.
    4) even though price is more, electric companies often provide a nice rebate.

    privacy concerns are real, i am not debating that one.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    agsr said:
    @CYDdharta, all very good points.  A few counters:
    1) you don't train nest - it auto trains itself.  No need to set a schedule.
    2) it acrually saves you money vs programmable thermostat - that is a key reason why people buy thermostats 
    3) ability to control away from home is a useful feature for many.
    4) even though price is more, electric companies often provide a nice rebate.

    privacy concerns are real, i am not debating that one.
    I'm not sure I see significant savings vs a programmable thermostat.  The Nest eventually devises a schedule vs you inputting a schedule.  It's a negligible advantage; OTOH, the programmed thermostat executes its schedule the moment it's set.  It doesn't need to take the time to learn.  Rebates are also available for programmable thermostats.

    Being able to control the temp away from home would be nice in certain situations.
  • Blimey!
    We're discussing thermostats now.
    I suppose it makes a change from flat Earth's.
    I believe thermostats are counter-productive and actually encourage excessive energy use.
    That is to say, although a thermostat can accurately regulate and maintain temperature, a thermostat cannot take into account the mind set of the consumer, no matter how smart the device maybe. If a system is left permanently switched on and under the control of a thermostat, temperature will be maintained regardless of actual necessity.

    Probably a separate debate here. But hey, if you want to talk thermostats!
  • agsragsr 539 PtsPremium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    Premium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    CYDdharta said:
    I'm not sure I see significant savings vs a programmable thermostat.  The Nest eventually devises a schedule vs you inputting a schedule.  It's a negligible advantage; OTOH, the programmed thermostat executes its schedule the moment it's set.  It doesn't need to take the time to learn.  Rebates are also available for programmable thermostats.

    Being able to control the temp away from home would be nice in certain situations.
    @CYDdharta, according to nest internal study On average the Nest Learning Thermostat saved US customers about 10-12% on their heating bills and about 15% on their cooling bills. We’ve estimated average savings of $131 to $145 a year, which means the Nest Thermostat paid for itself in under two years. I had a similar experience.  The big saver is that it connects to gps of smart phones of all members of the household and knows if you are away (ignoring privacy concerns for the momemt). As you approach back home it senses your location and gets nest working again.  
    https://nest.com/blog/2015/02/02/the-nest-learning-thermostat-saves-energy-heres-the-proof/

    Regarding rebates from utility companies, yes, programmable thermostats get rebates too, but not as large as smart thermostats- because utility companies know that smart thermostats will be more enegry efficient.
    You did agree that ability to control nest remotely is useful, so hopefully you can agree that some people (and many do) find smart thermostats useful.

    @Fredsnephew, static and manual control settings on thermostats are a bad idea.  Big waste of money.  I had first hand experience awhile ago doing that and my bills were much higher. You also forget to change the temperature even if you are away. At a minimum programmable thermostat is a must.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @agsr The DOE has stated programmable thermostats can theoretically cut energy costs by up to 30%.  Granted, for households in which all occupants own smartphones they wish to sync with the Nest, there can be some benefit.  However, the demographic group we're looking at (homeowners, who tend to be older) is among the lowest for smartphone ownership and won't benefit significantly with the Nest vs a programmable thermostat.  As to the OP, most people won't benefit from Nest as opposed to a much more inexpensive programmable thermostat.  Some people could benefit by using Nest; but my guess is that even most of them are above average for home income, and a cheaper Nest option won't make much difference. 
  • agsr said:
    CYDdharta said:
    I'm not sure I see significant savings vs a programmable thermostat.  The Nest eventually devises a schedule vs you inputting a schedule.  It's a negligible advantage; OTOH, the programmed thermostat executes its schedule the moment it's set.  It doesn't need to take the time to learn.  Rebates are also available for programmable thermostats.

    Being able to control the temp away from home would be nice in certain situations.
    @CYDdharta, according to nest internal study On average the Nest Learning Thermostat saved US customers about 10-12% on their heating bills and about 15% on their cooling bills. We’ve estimated average savings of $131 to $145 a year, which means the Nest Thermostat paid for itself in under two years. I had a similar experience.  The big saver is that it connects to gps of smart phones of all members of the household and knows if you are away (ignoring privacy concerns for the momemt). As you approach back home it senses your location and gets nest working again.  
    https://nest.com/blog/2015/02/02/the-nest-learning-thermostat-saves-energy-heres-the-proof/

    Regarding rebates from utility companies, yes, programmable thermostats get rebates too, but not as large as smart thermostats- because utility companies know that smart thermostats will be more enegry efficient.
    You did agree that ability to control nest remotely is useful, so hopefully you can agree that some people (and many do) find smart thermostats useful.

    @Fredsnephew, static and manual control settings on thermostats are a bad idea.  Big waste of money.  I had first hand experience awhile ago doing that and my bills were much higher. You also forget to change the temperature even if you are away. At a minimum programmable thermostat is a must.

    If you're away, turn everything off. It's by far the cheapest solution.

    The above is all indicative of a greater problem facing mankind. Reliance upon technology to order and control our lives.
    I expect eventually we will stop thinking for ourselves.
    As I said previously, another debate.

    In all fairness though, the U.S. climate is considerably different to the temperate climate we experience here in the U.K. 
    The last three U.K. winters have been so mild, I have not actually needed to use central heating in all that time and of course U.K. summers are never hot or humid enough to necessitate air conditioning.

  • @Fredsnephew, to manually turn thermostat on and off is highly impractical. That means you will either forget and/or will come back to a house that is way too hot or cold. Nest and ecobee allow you to do that remotely, which is nice. It can also do the warmup gradually.
  • @Fredsnephew, to manually turn thermostat on and off is highly impractical. That means you will either forget and/or will come back to a house that is way too hot or cold. Nest and ecobee allow you to do that remotely, which is nice. It can also do the warmup gradually.

    As I stated.
    I'm referring to The U.K. Where I haven't needed to use central heating for the last 3 years.


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