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We live on a flat plane

1235710

Status: Open Debate

Arguments

  • Could you explain NASA photos which clearly show the Earth is round?
    northsouthkorea
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 709 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Could you explain NASA photos which clearly show the Earth is round?
    NASA has admitted on several occasions that their images are fake, or at the very least, all of them except for the moon landings. Even then the moon landings have been debunked before, so yeah. And before you ramble on about seeing curvature from an airplane 7 miles high or even at the top of a building (the tallest of which is not even 1 mile high), heres a little picture from almost 100 miles.


  • NASA photos show that the Earth is round. 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 658 PtsPremium Member
    edited September 3 Premium Member
    NASA photos show that the Earth is round. 
    You can't be serious.
    Coveny
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 709 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    NASA photos show that the Earth is round. 
    *rubs eyes* *yawn* Soo, this again? More NASA photos? They've admitting they're frauds on multiple occasions @northsouthkorea @namemcname
    Covenynamemcname
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 709 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 709 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Namemcname @NorthSouthKorea shall I educate you both?
    "It is photoshopped but it has to be"

    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/about/people/RSimmon.html "The last time anyone took a photograph from above low Earth orbit that showed an entire hemisphere (one side of a globe) was in 1972 during Apollo 17."

    The moon landings have been debunked too however, I have another debate on that.



    Appaently you've decided to cherrypick the most convenient part of the video.

    Oh, let  me guess, the reason they photoshop images is not because they're lying about us living on a ball, but because they're pleading to the OCD of a few people? 
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 709 PtsPremium Member
    edited September 4 Premium Member
    Coveny said:
    Coveny said:
    So. I'm pretty interested in debating the flat Earth instead of seeing this constant gish galloping about religion. Give me an argument and I'll happily address.
    You misspelled delete.

    Good one I guess but if you're concerned about me deleting your posts with insults and fallacies then I would suggest you construct logical arguments. We'd appreciate it.
    I've done that, and still haven't explained the ONE argument I directed at you now did you? Instead you just say "we answered that", and "we explained how you were wrong" for pages and pages and pages... so what's the point?

    WE. ADDRESSED. YOUR. ARGUMENTS. YOU. MADE. ALREADY. And you keep ignoring that. How many times will I have to say it before you stop asking me to address them? Or are you talking about your highly irrelevant and fallacious new "concerns"
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 658 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Coveny said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @Coveny

    I'm no leader either.
    Both Silver and Evidence have deferred to your judgement/decision, that makes you the leader of the cult, or do you need me to explain what the word leader means for you?
    I'm just a science enthusiast. I met a few good people on the way that, after they figured out the earth is flat, thought it was a good enough reason to spread the word with me. I've given no direction or command. I simply share what I have learned. There are tens of thousands of flat earthers just in the US. No one is claiming leadership. If you want discuss definitions again, I'll just wait until you have something worth responding to again.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • Erfisflat said:
    Coveny said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @Coveny

    I'm no leader either.
    Both Silver and Evidence have deferred to your judgement/decision, that makes you the leader of the cult, or do you need me to explain what the word leader means for you?
    I'm just a science enthusiast. I met a few good people on the way that, after they figured out the earth is flat, thought it was a good enough reason to spread the word with me. I've given no direction or command. I simply share what I have learned. There are tens of thousands of flat earthers just in the US. No one is claiming leadership. If you want discuss definitions again, I'll just wait until you have something worth responding to again.
    I could take the time to find instances where you did give directions or commands to them, but once I prove you a liar again it will just get deleted so what's the point?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 658 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Coveny said:
    Erfisflat said:
    Coveny said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @Coveny

    I'm no leader either.
    Both Silver and Evidence have deferred to your judgement/decision, that makes you the leader of the cult, or do you need me to explain what the word leader means for you?
    I'm just a science enthusiast. I met a few good people on the way that, after they figured out the earth is flat, thought it was a good enough reason to spread the word with me. I've given no direction or command. I simply share what I have learned. There are tens of thousands of flat earthers just in the US. No one is claiming leadership. If you want discuss definitions again, I'll just wait until you have something worth responding to again.
    I could take the time to find instances where you did give directions or commands to them, but once I prove you a liar again it will just get deleted so what's the point?
    You won't because you won't find any. You've only proved yourself a liar.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • There were a lot of trolls trying to argue against you so I didn't want to waste my time trying to finish reading the entire post, but I got a general idea of what your arguments are. If I repeat an already stated argument, sorry.

    How do you explain a sunset?
    SilverishGoldNova
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 709 PtsPremium Member
    edited September 13 Premium Member
    @TransgendersAreGay ;

    "There were a lot of trolls trying to argue against you so I didn't want to waste my time trying to finish reading the entire post, but I got a general idea of what your arguments are. If I repeat an already stated argument, sorry"

    Yeah, there were alot of trolls and dismissive globers in this debate and the other debate. Coveny already admitted he won't address arguments and uses insults, and flagged all of my comments as spam, Fred kept bringing up basic and nonsensical questions that almost seem like he's trolling. Namemcname, WoodenWood and AlwaysCorrect spent their time dismissing my arguments, atleast WoodenWood is skeptical of the globe he was ardently defending now. @PowerPikachu21 had a barrage of questions that got annoying, but you and Him seem to be the only ones who werent trolling. 

    "How do you explain a sunset?"



    Erfisflatnamemcname
  • CovenyCoveny 394 Pts
    edited September 15
    Reason time zone line works on globe earth is the side to the sun is lite and the side away from the sun is not as light does not bend around the earth.



    The reason time zone lines do NOT work on the flat earth model is because light from a close and smaller sun goes a set distance from that light source creating a circle of light. Green lines are the time zone lines, and the red line is the circle of light the sun would produce in the flat earth model. These are incompatible.




    Now you have argued that maps are wrong, but you won't provide any "correct" maps. This is a fallacy. Put up or shut up.

    Which brings me back to the initial question which flat earthers still have not answered: How is a circle(in red) a line(in green)?
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 709 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @PowerPikachu21 You may want to return for page 4, because some fanatic reported all of our posts
    namemcname
  • Flat Earth is the definition of psuedoscience. Flat earther's question the validity of current science, so they make up their own to fit their political agenda and retro fit their arguments specifically to refute current science instead of trying to find out the true truth as FEarthers claim to be attempting to do. By attempting to refute the globe shape as they claim is based on shaky evidence, they end up creating scientific laws for themselves based on even shakier evidence. One FE claimed that an eclipse is caused by an invisible object named rakha, but also used the fact that black holes aren't visible so believing in black holes is "rediculous" as they said. This is a clear contradiction in logic. The FEs I see are always passive aggressive and easily provoked even when they claim to be taking the high ground. This is because they clearly do not care about the truth but more upholding their personal beliefs and opinions. FEs also very commonly used pictures as evidence even though they claim images are not to be used as evidence as "there are pictures of unicorns and King Kong." This is an obvious display of confirmation bias.
    CovenyErfisflatSilverishGoldNovanamemcname
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 658 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    "Flat Earth is the definition of psuedoscience."

    False, the definition of pseudoscience is in my signature. Basically pseudoscience is the study of imaginary things. If you can't verify a claim empirically with observation, experimentation, or measurement. In order for the earth to be a ball that is 25,000 miles in circumference, all standing water must have a degree of curvature. This of course is ridiculous as every measurable body of water has been shown to be flat. So, saying that water does curve eight inches per mile squared is a pseudoscientific claim, as it cannot be demonstrated on any scale.

    This is but one of many ways I have shown the heliocentric model to be pseudoscientific here, so it is an unsubstantiated claim that holds no water.

    "Flat earther's question the validity of current science"

    I can't speak for all flat earthers, but I personally am testing the pseudoscientific claims that others take as gospel, and have found some inconsistencies, they don't match reality.

    "One FE claimed that an eclipse is caused by an invisible object named rakha, but also used the fact that black holes aren't visible so believing in black holes is "rediculous" as they said. "

    There is more evidence to support rahu than black holes. Would you care to discuss the matter?

    More rhetoric and baseless claims:

    1." so they make up their own to fit their political agenda and retro fit their arguments specifically to refute current science instead of trying to find out the true truth as FEarthers claim to be attempting to do."

    2.  "By attempting to refute the globe shape as they claim is based on shaky evidence, they end up creating scientific laws for themselves based on even shakier evidence. "

    3." The FEs I see are always passive aggressive and easily provoked even when they claim to be taking the high ground."

    "FEs also very commonly used pictures as evidence even though they claim images are not to be used as evidence as "there are pictures of unicorns and King Kong." This is an obvious display of confirmation bias."

    "FE's" use empirically validated images, anyone can witness Chicago across lake Michigan, none of us has ever seen the earth as a  ball. This is the comparative difference. This is not confirmation bias as you falsely claim.
    Coveny
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • The main problem with the flat Earth being "empirically observed" is that they are usually normal citizens without access the technology to actually effectively study the earth. They don't have access to space shuttles, helicopters, aircrafts that can travel tens of thousands of feet in the air, actual means of traveling and observing the earth. They are highly restricted to basically a camera in their backyard, telescopes, and google images and Wikipedia and then ultimately mere speculation. These methods are not accurate enough to support building up a new field of science. Also some points that I'd like to address, the reason why planes do not fly straight out into space in a globe earth is because they do not fly straight. They have gauges that show your aircraft's position in relation to the horizon and the pilot constantly makes slight adjustments in their direction. Another point, that water is "proven" to be flat. In a globe earth, the ocean's curvature change is so minute that it cannot be observed with the naked eye. It is like attempting to gauge if you are turning right while taking 12 hours to make a right turn. You need to be able to observe the Earth from outer space to see this curvature, but of course Flat Earthers do not have the ability to leave the planet to be able to directly observe this. Also in the globe earth science, every object is pulled toward the middle of the planet. This causes water to ultimately be wrapped around the planet, like glazing on a donut hole. People have also seen the Earth as a ball as you claim they haven't. The people that visited the moon have seen the planet as a ball. The people that have been on the ISS have seen Earth as a ball, and so will the people traveling to Mars. But to this I'm sure you will simply claim to be false. Also yes I would like more information on this rahu object as I have never heard of this object before. I can not imagine how something can both be invisible and cast a shadow at the same time. 
    ErfisflatSilverishGoldNovanamemcname
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 658 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    "The main problem with the flat Earth being "empirically observed" is that they are usually normal citizens without access the technology to actually effectively study the earth"

    False. All that is needed to effectively study the earth is a good camera and a body of water. Bodies of water must usually be over a mile to notice any (lack of) curvature, but everything from 6 miles to upwards of 150 miles have been measured and recorded, and all of it is flat (as common sense tells us).

    "They don't have access to space shuttles, helicopters, aircrafts that can travel tens of thousands of feet in the air, actual means of traveling and observing the earth."

    First of all these things are not needed to measure the earth, as noted above. Second, pilots have come forth saying the earth is flat.



    Third, flat earthers have launched weather balloons tens of thousands of feet in the air, and it is flat.



    "They are highly restricted to basically a camera in their backyard, telescopes, and google images and Wikipedia and then ultimately mere speculation."

    The math doesn't lie. It is not speculation to state facts. Water, in all measurable circumstance, is flat. Speculation would be what you are doing, stating there is curved water where there isn't. From any point on earth, assuming it is a ball that is 25,000 miles in circumference, the earth, especially water, must curve down 8 inches per square mile over any given distance. This has been proven false repeatedly with irrefutable, verifiable, testable evidence that anyone can perform.
    Fact is, the only ones "restricted" are globetards. They rely solely on 2nd hand evidence having faith in men from the government, and accept it without question, even denying their own basic common senses.

    "These methods are not accurate enough to support building up a new field of science."

    Please state WHY the experimentation is not accurate. One need only a good telescopic camera, a body of water, a map and a clear day (assuming they have a basic knowledge of spherical geometry) to test the globe.

    "They have gauges that show your aircraft's position in relation to the horizon and the pilot constantly makes slight adjustments in their direction."

    This is a false statement with no evidence. I've already shown one pilot who contradicts this baseless claim, have spoken with a few pilots myself on the matter, so we're going to need something more substantial than just you're saying so. A pilot travelling the average commercial speed of 500mph must descend about 46 feet per minute. As most passengers would no doubt notice this declination, and "slight adjustments " would not be enough, it is entirely plausible to say that pilots obtain cruising altitude and level off for the flight, there is also what's called the angle of attack, which means pilots angle upwards during flights to maintain altitude. 


    There is also the fact that gyroscopes mounted in the attitude indicator do not roll back during flights, providing yet another conclusive piece of evidence for a flat stationary earth.

    "In a globe earth, the ocean's curvature change is so minute that it cannot be observed with the naked eye."

    False. Your vagueness is evidence that you have no clue how much a ball that is 25,000 miles in circumference is supposed to curve away over a given distance. Globetards often use terms like "so big" as a means of making the globe earth unfalsifiable. That is the definition of pseudoscience. 



    "You need to be able to observe the Earth from outer space to see this curvature, but of course Flat Earthers do not have the ability to leave the planet to be able to directly observe this. "

    And of course, neither do you. Seeing that neither of us has been nor will ever go to space, we must take a government organization's word for it. Now that many of us know that if the government were in charge of the desert there'd be a shortage of sand (untrustworthy), finding other means of falsifying the globe is the only route left. If there are discrepancies with the individual experimentation being performed, pointing that out would be a valid point, but in essence, neither of us has been to space, so it's a moot point.

    "Also in the globe earth science, every object is pulled toward the middle of the planet. This causes water to ultimately be wrapped around the planet, like glazing on a donut hole."

    This is a pseudoscientific claim. It has never been observed on any scale. Not ever in any experiment EVER has a body of water conformed to the exterior of it's container.

    "People have also seen the Earth as a ball as you claim they haven't."

    For a six figure salary, I'd say I went to the moon and saw the earth as a ball too. Of course I'd have to swear the oath of secrecy, etc. 

    "The people that visited the moon have seen the planet as a ball"

    Where is the evidence for this claim?

    "The people that have been on the ISS have seen Earth as a ball, and so will the people traveling to Mars. But to this I'm sure you will simply claim to be false"

    I'm not just claiming, I've proved the earth to be both motionless and flat, so of course the ISS is a hoax.

    " I have never heard of this object before. I can not imagine how something can both be invisible and cast a shadow at the same time. "

    I'm sure there are many things which you don't know. 


    But you'll believe this without a shred of practical evidence backing it?



    Coveny
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • This is dumbing things down a little and, although it's a very basic question I think it's rather crucial. Forget all scientific, geometric and photographic evidence for a moment and let's cut back down to the core concept of a flat Earth.

    My question to flat Earthers is, what do you think happens at the edge? What keeps all the water in? Surely some sailors or pilots have been to the edge before and have ample evidence of this flat Earth. I mean, it really wouldn't be that hard to simply charter a plane from the nearest civilised land mass and fly to the edge, take some video footage and then return to rock the world as we know it with your amazing discovery!
    namemcname
  • I see a photo showing land (or ice) meeting the sea, but like I said, what happens after that? what keeps the sea in? Surely somebody must have flown or sailed to the edge and taken photos of the abyss beyond and the barrier keeping the water in.
    namemcname
  • edited October 7
    Silver your reply to my comments have a lot of misconceptions relating to what I meant that I could clear up BUT that would be getting off topic. What I want to know is how can this Rahu object possibly be invisible and at the same time cast a shadow. Shadows are caused by the lack of light. If something is invisible, that means light is traveling through it. How can light possibly travel trough Rahu but be completely deflected at the same time? It is like trying to walk through a door and being both stopped by the door and getting completely past it at the exact same moment.
    namemcname
  • Can you also show what this dome is made of and where it was discovered?
    namemcname
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 709 PtsPremium Member
    edited September 19 Premium Member
    @DawnBringerRiven

    "Flat Earth is the definition of psuedoscience. Flat earther's question the validity of current science, so they make up their own to fit their political agenda and retro fit their arguments specifically to refute current science instead of trying to find out the true truth as FEarthers claim to be attempting to do"

    This has literaly nothing to do with politics. To refute current science? You mean to show NASA admitting to faking images? Also, taking the time to do research into the flat Earth instead of just shooting your mouth off about what you were told as school isn't "psuedoscience".

    " By attempting to refute the globe shape as they claim is based on shaky evidence, they end up creating scientific laws for themselves based on even shakier evidence. One FE claimed that an eclipse is caused by an invisible object named rakha, but also used the fact that black holes aren't visible so believing in black holes is "rediculous" as they said. "

    So, your rebuttal to Rahu (not "Rakha") is @Erfisflat saying black holes don't exist? Wow. Not only is this a cherry picking fallacy (ignoring the proof I showed of rahu existing), but this is also a red herring fallacy (black holes have nothing to do with the conversation) .

    "The FEs I see are always passive aggressive and easily provoked even when they claim to be taking the high ground"

    So, calling an admitted troll a troll vs

    ""Yes I seriously said that. Yes I think mountains are curvature"
    "Refusal to provide evidence of my claim or address an opposition's argument against my claim means I'm a liar? You sure you want to take that position? ROFL"
    "And now you know my intentions... this is why I quit coming here I don't understand the simplest concepts."
    "I insulted you""

    Which one is more easily provoked now?

    "This is because they clearly do not care about the truth but more upholding their personal beliefs and opinions. FEs also very commonly used pictures as evidence even though they claim images are not to be used as evidence as "there are pictures of unicorns and King Kong." This is an obvious display of confirmation bias."

    You know how I mentioned earlier NASA admitting to faking images of the Earth?

    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/about/people/RSimmon.html

    "The last time anyone took a photograph from above low Earth orbit that showed an entire hemisphere (one side of a globe) was in 1972 during Apollo 17."

    The moon landings have been proved fakes too, even some entry level globers like you admit it.
    I wouldn't mind an explanation from @Coveny and @DawnBringerRiven on what fallacy I used here, other than having a different opinion, thanks, then I can answer your basic questions...
    DawnBringerRiven
  • I would also like to point out that what someone says is not proof something is false or true. If a pilot says the earth is flat because of so and so - that doesn't mean anything. The pilot could possibly just not fully understand their equipment, or are lying or completely biased towards a flat Earth. You can not use people's words alone to prove or disprove anything unless you are arguing for philosophy. The people on the flat Earth side here have said again and again that "globetards" believe whatever NASA tells them and say that is an idiotic practice. FEs should hold this same attitude towards pilots and other groups of people.
    Coveny
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