frame
Howdy Debater!
Sign In Register


Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Dear Mexico, please pay for my wall..I think NOT

Opening Argument

WhyTrumpWhyTrump 148 PtsPremium Member
One of the key parts of Trump's pledge for American people was that Mexico will pay for the wall.  It continues to be very unlikely that they will pay. So unless Trump will pull a financial engineering trick, Mexico is very clear that they will not pay.  

In response to Trump tweet, Mexico reiterates it won't pay for the wall

natbaronsnorthsouthkoreaaarongjoecavalry
  1. Will Mexico Pay for the Wall?

    12 votes
    1. Yes
      16.67%
    2. No
      83.33%
WhyTrump - a good question

Status: Open Debate

Arguments

  • No, they won't make a payment. Although, America may get reimburse through tariff.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    SilverishGoldNovaTHEDENIER
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • Mexico will end up paying either directly or indirectly.  They will not likely hand over suitcases of cash, but will pay with economic trade imbalances  shift.
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 488 PtsPremium Member
    edited September 1 Premium Member
    Erfisflat said:
    And they've decided which puppet will do it. He got a bunch of people to support him by claiming he wasn't going to be funded by big banks, which he was lying about, and they chose him because he knew he'd be divisive. 
    Erfisflat
    "Yes I seriously said that. Yes I think mountains are curvature"
    "Refusal to provide evidence of my claim or address an opposition's argument against my claim means I'm a liar? You sure you want to take that position? ROFL"
    "I couldn't address your arguments so I insulted you"
    "Rahu doesn't exist because Erfisflat said black holes don't exist"
    spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Trump NEVER said Mexico was going to pay for the wall upfront.  His position was always that we would repaid for the cost of the wall.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    edited August 29 Premium Member


    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • inc4tinc4t 136 Pts
    @CYDdharta, I agree too.  Paying for the wall doesn't need to be upfront. There is so much trade going on that any shift in the tarrifs will essentially pay for the wall. 
  • VaulkVaulk 239 Pts
    If you can even call it trade.  You know, because...all those amazing exports that Mexico has...that uh...we need in the U.S....you know like....uh...I know there's something that Mexico has that we need...I just can't think of it.
    northsouthkorea
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Vaulk
    Laborers?
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • VaulkVaulk 239 Pts
    @Erfisflat,

    Nah, the U.S. doesn't "Need" illegal labor.  Granted we use it, but if you take it away the economy isn't going to destabilize, it'll take a dip and then return to where it should have always been without illegal work.  Same way with drugs, the selling of illegal substances actually plays a large part in the economy but removing it wouldn't kill the economy.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Vaulk said:
    @Erfisflat,

    Nah, the U.S. doesn't "Need" illegal labor.  Granted we use it, but if you take it away the economy isn't going to destabilize, it'll take a dip and then return to where it should have always been without illegal work.  Same way with drugs, the selling of illegal substances actually plays a large part in the economy but removing it wouldn't kill the economy.
    I disagree, illegal immigrants work for far less than their counterparts, and often harder. In a labor force snapshot from 2012-2013, Borjas found that about 87% of male illegal immigrants worked, compared to 74% of American men. This drives the pay down for uneducated workers but drives it up for college graduates.

    Americans have gotten lazy. Plain and simple. I would even argue that we've always been lazy, going from slavery to cheap labor. Of course I'm not speaking for every American or every Mexican. Either way, where there is a will there's a way. We will never be rid of illegal substances. We will never be rid of illegal labor.
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • VaulkVaulk 239 Pts
    @Erfisflat,

    I happen to agree, I doubt illegal drugs and illegal immigrants will ever be a thing of the past.  Regardless however, I don't think their existence in our Country is a good thing.
    Erfisflat
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Erfisflat said:


    I disagree, illegal immigrants work for far less than their counterparts, and often harder. In a labor force snapshot from 2012-2013, Borjas found that about 87% of male illegal immigrants worked, compared to 74% of American men. This drives the pay down for uneducated workers but drives it up for college graduates.

    Americans have gotten lazy. Plain and simple. I would even argue that we've always been lazy, going from slavery to cheap labor. Of course I'm not speaking for every American or every Mexican. Either way, where there is a will there's a way. We will never be rid of illegal substances. We will never be rid of illegal labor.

    That can easily be addressed.  All you'd have to do to raise the stats of all groups is remove the social safety nets.  Illegals can't access welfare, social security, etc., at least theoretically.  If they aren't working, they don't get anything and it's hard to live without any income.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    CYDdharta said:
    Erfisflat said:


    I disagree, illegal immigrants work for far less than their counterparts, and often harder. In a labor force snapshot from 2012-2013, Borjas found that about 87% of male illegal immigrants worked, compared to 74% of American men. This drives the pay down for uneducated workers but drives it up for college graduates.

    Americans have gotten lazy. Plain and simple. I would even argue that we've always been lazy, going from slavery to cheap labor. Of course I'm not speaking for every American or every Mexican. Either way, where there is a will there's a way. We will never be rid of illegal substances. We will never be rid of illegal labor.

    That can easily be addressed.  All you'd have to do to raise the stats of all groups is remove the social safety nets.  Illegals can't access welfare, social security, etc., at least theoretically.  If they aren't working, they don't get anything and it's hard to live without any income.
    Even with hard work, if you can find it, the rising cost of living still outweighs the wages. But supposing we do cut off all the welfare and social security, we've just killed off a bunch of kids by starvation, basically committing genocide, what next?
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Erfisflat said:


    Even with hard work, if you can find it, the rising cost of living still outweighs the wages. But supposing we do cut off all the welfare and social security, we've just killed off a bunch of kids by starvation, basically committing genocide, what next?

    How so?  Do a whole lot of illegal children, who aren't eligible for welfare or social security, die off from starvation?
  • VaulkVaulk 239 Pts
    I'm with @CYDdharta on this one, I'm afraid that removing subsidized programs that shouldn't still be in effect isn't genocide.  If you start giving away a loaf of bread every day and then 10 years later you suddenly stop...is it your fault that people go hungry or should people take responsibility for their own lives and choices?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    CYDdharta said:
    Erfisflat said:


    Even with hard work, if you can find it, the rising cost of living still outweighs the wages. But supposing we do cut off all the welfare and social security, we've just killed off a bunch of kids by starvation, basically committing genocide, what next?

    How so?  Do a whole lot of illegal children, who aren't eligible for welfare or social security, die off from starvation?
    By "remove the social safety nets." You don't mean for everyone? Illegal immigrants are already barred from receiving assistance. Though there are loopholes, such as citizen spouses or dependents.
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Erfisflat said:


    By "remove the social safety nets." You don't mean for everyone? Illegal immigrants are already barred from receiving assistance. Though there are loopholes, such as citizen spouses or dependents.
    You've just made my point for me.  Illegals, for the most part, aren't receiving assistance, yet there's no genocide.  In fact, the opposite is true, we have too many illegals coming in, despite the fact that  they are ineligible.  If illegals can make it, and even thrive, in the US without assistance, there's no reason to believe legal citizens wouldn't as well. 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    CYDdharta said:
    Erfisflat said:


    Even with hard work, if you can find it, the rising cost of living still outweighs the wages. But supposing we do cut off all the welfare and social security, we've just killed off a bunch of kids by starvation, basically committing genocide, what next?

    How so?  Do a whole lot of illegal children, who aren't eligible for welfare or social security, die off from starvation?
    So your solution to illegal immigration is to cut welfare assistance to American citizens, and take away American citizens social security?
    SilverishGoldNova
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    edited September 2 Premium Member
    Erfisflat said:


    So your solution to illegal immigration is to cut welfare assistance to American citizens, and take away American citizens social security?

    I never said that.  What I said was if you want US citizens to demonstrate the same work ethic, or better, as illegals, it is easily accomplished.  By the same token, as soon as illegals become legal and are eligible for the same benefits, you can expect a similar work ethic from the formerly illegals as from US citizens.  What is your goal?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    CYDdharta said:
    Erfisflat said:


    So your solution to illegal immigration is to cut welfare assistance to American citizens, and take away American citizens social security?

    I never said that.  What I said was if you want US citizens to demonstrate the same work ethic, or better, as illegals, it is easily accomplished.  By the same token, as soon as illegals become legal and are eligible for the same benefits, you can expect a similar work ethic from the formerly illegals as from US citizens.  What is your goal?
    If you were to drop welfare and assistance and social security, I think better work ethics would be the last thing you'd have on your hands. Police state incoming. The illegals' work ethics aren't the problem, as the statistics show. I say if the Mexicans are willing to come and work harder, for less, why are we trying to stop them? Is your goal building a wall?
    joecavalry
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • Mexico will not pay for the wall, but instead will reimburse America through tariff.
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Erfisflat said:


    If you were to drop welfare and assistance and social security, I think better work ethics would be the last thing you'd have on your hands. Police state incoming. The illegals' work ethics aren't the problem, as the statistics show. I say if the Mexicans are willing to come and work harder, for less, why are we trying to stop them? Is your goal building a wall?

    What in the world would cause you to think such a thing?!?  We didn't have a police state before we had welfare and social security, there's no reason to think such a thing would occur if they were removed. 

    My only point was to illustrate that you can't compare illegal's work ethic to citizens.  Illegals work harder because they have no choice.  If you take the choice away from citizens, or give the choice to illegals, then both groups will have the same work ethic.  And the problem is they they take jobs away from citizens.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @CYDdharta
    @CYDdharta ;

    "there's no reason to think such a thing would occur if they were removed."

    A lot of people have become entirely dependent on state and government assistance. You can't expect Americans to resort back to the ways of the 1920's. I can't see why you DON'T think that if the 40 million+ Americans went to buy their families' food, and found out it was no longer available, that they wouldn't be rioting in the streets today? This will in turn trigger a full blown police state.

    " the problem is they they take jobs away from citizens."

    ...because they work harder for less. Walling up a border will not solve the problem. On the other hand, a wall would have hindered much needed aid to Texas that Mexico is sending, even as our fearless leader insults them.
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Erfisflat said:
    @CYDdharta
    @CYDdharta ;

    "there's no reason to think such a thing would occur if they were removed."

    A lot of people have become entirely dependent on state and government assistance. You can't expect Americans to resort back to the ways of the 1920's. I can't see why you DON'T think that if the 40 million+ Americans went to buy their families' food, and found out it was no longer available, that they wouldn't be rioting in the streets today? This will in turn trigger a full blown police state.

    40 million people won't be able to buy food because it's not available?!?  Where do you get this stuff???  Meh, never mind; you're the same one who's arguing that the Earth is flat.  Food would still be easily available.  More people wouldn't be able to afford it because they'd have no income, but the food would be there.  Most of those people would suddenly find a way to be productive.

    " the problem is they they take jobs away from citizens."

    ...because they work harder for less. Walling up a border will not solve the problem. On the other hand, a wall would have hindered much needed aid to Texas that Mexico is sending, even as our fearless leader insults them.

    The only reason they work harder for less is because they have to!!!  Building the wall will mean more jobs for US citizens.  And what are you talking about with the wall?  Are the Mexicans sending aid to Texas on horseback thru the open  border??  How would the wall hinder aid?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    edited September 2 Premium Member
    @CYDdharta

    "40 million people won't be able to buy food because it's not available?!"

    The assistance wouldn't be available is what I meant. Eh, nevermind, you still think you live on a spinning ball(which is irrelevant, AND there is no evidence for). At least your leader is not THAT dumb.


    "Most of those people would suddenly find a way to be productive"

    So most of 40 million people will suddenly get a job... right. Let's try to be a bit more realistic...

    "The only reason they work harder for less is because they have to!!!"

    I wouldn't say they had to, I know plenty of American people with jobs that do the bare minimum. 

    "Building the wall will mean more jobs for US citizens."

    I personally think it's nationalist, which is borderline racism. Were not better than the Mexicans because we were born North of the border. If I had a company and needed to fill a position, and I had a choice between someone with double efficiency for less pay, it's just business to take that choice. I don't think modern America will step up before they riot, as you predict, and that is basically the deciding factor.

    "Are the Mexicans sending aid to Texas on horseback thru the open  border?? "

    No, they're sending help. Which is less likely to happen after a wall is built. The Mexican government is doing what FEMA can't. 

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/fema-aid-storm-victims-harvey.html
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Erfisflat said:


    "Most of those people would suddenly find a way to be productive"

    So most of 40 million people will suddenly get a job... right. Let's try to be a bit more realistic...
    Yes, lets try to be a little more realistic.  Of course most of the 40 million people would find some form of income rather than starve. 

    "The only reason they work harder for less is because they have to!!!"

    I wouldn't say they had to, I know plenty of American people with jobs that do the bare minimum. 
    What's your point?  There's no evidence that illegals do much more than they have to.
    "Building the wall will mean more jobs for US citizens."

    I personally think it's nationalist, which is borderline racism. Were not better than the Mexicans because we were born North of the border. If I had a company and needed to fill a position, and I had a choice between someone with double efficiency for less pay, it's just business to take that choice. I don't think modern America will step up before they riot, as you predict, and that is basically the deciding factor.
    We aren't better than the Mexicans because of the border, we're better than the Mexicans because we have more respect for our government and law and order.  It goes without saying that allowing in people who flaunt our laws undermines that respect and harms our nation.
    "Are the Mexicans sending aid to Texas on horseback thru the open  border?? "

    No, they're sending help. Which is less likely to happen after a wall is built. The Mexican government is doing what FEMA can't. 

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/fema-aid-storm-victims-harvey.html
    Do you actually read your sources before you post them??  The article you posted was all about FEMA and the DOD dispatching aid to the victims in Texas.  Mexico isn't even mentioned.  The simple reason Mexico isn't mentioned is because, while they have pledged aid, they haven't as yet delivered a single package.  The wall would have hindered this non-aid, how?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @CYDdharta

    "Yes, lets try to be a little more realistic.  Of course most of the 40 million people would find some form of income rather than starve.

    Like rioting and looting, I agree. 

    "What's your point?  There's no evidence that illegals do much more than they have to."

    I thought that was already agreed upon. You just stated "The only reason they work harder for less is because they have to!!!"

    I've seen it firsthand, I realize it's aneqdotal, but most anyone that is witness has agreed. If not, they wouldn't be getting hired over American citizens. Riiight??

    " we have more respect for our government and law and order. "

     :D 
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/5392/trust-government.aspx

    That's not what the polls say. Besides, even IF you were born under a less overreaching government, is that the other man's fault for not being so lucky?

    "Do you actually read..."

    Yes, it was a source for my statement:
    "... what FEMA can't."
     
    The article clearly explains that FEMA can't handle this one, similar to Katrina. Mexican aid is needed and welcome.

    "while they have pledged aid, they haven't as yet delivered a single package. "

    This isn't sourced, and I see contradicting articles being reported here and there, so...

    https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2017-08-30/mexicos-red-cross-delivers-aid-to-storm-ravaged-houston

    " The wall would have hindered this (non-)aid, how?"

    If Mexico planned to build a border wall to keep Americans out, and threatened Americans to pay for it, would Americans do the same thing they are doing? That's how.
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    edited September 3 Premium Member

    Erfisflat said:
    Like rioting and looting, I agree.
    Like working the jobs that are suddenly vacant because there are no illegals to take them.

    I've seen it firsthand, I realize it's aneqdotal, but most anyone that is witness has agreed. If not, they wouldn't be getting hired over American citizens. Riiight??
    You've seen illegals that have all the rights, benefits and privileges of US citizens in the US that work harder than legals?!?  No doubt they were driving your wagon-trains full of aid coming across the open border from Mexico.

    " we have more respect for our government and law and order. "

     :D 
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/5392/trust-government.aspx

    That's not what the polls say. Besides, even IF you were born under a less overreaching government, is that the other man's fault for not being so lucky?
    Respect for the government and law and order isn't the same thing as trust in government, and that respect is the highest it's been in nearly half a century.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/196610/americans-respect-police-surges.aspx

    This is more what I was referring to;
    Rank     Country          2016 Score          2015 Score          2014 Score          2013 Score          2012 Score          Region
    18         United States             74                          76                          74                         73                          73                 Americas 
    123       Mexico                       30                          35                          35                         34                          34                 Americas
    https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2016#table

    The article clearly explains that FEMA can't handle this one, similar to Katrina. Mexican aid is needed and welcome.

    "while they have pledged aid, they haven't as yet delivered a single package. "

    This isn't sourced, and I see contradicting articles being reported here and there, so...

    https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2017-08-30/mexicos-red-cross-delivers-aid-to-storm-ravaged-houston

    " The wall would have hindered this (non-)aid, how?"

    If Mexico planned to build a border wall to keep Americans out, and threatened Americans to pay for it, would Americans do the same thing they are doing? That's how.

    Ah, Red Cross assistance; the wall would have had no effect whatsoever on that kind of non-governmental aid.  As yet, I can't find a single source for delivery of the official aid Mexico has offered.  And of course they'd still be offering aid to, by far, their biggest trading partner after an historic catastrophe like Harvey, wall or no wall.

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member

    @CYDdharta
    "Like working the jobs that are suddenly vacant because there are no illegals to take them."

    I don't think a wall will magically deport all the illegal laborers, no more than I think a wall will stop all the immigrants from coming in.

    Your original point was "There's no evidence that illegals do much more than they have to." Now you are referring to "illegals that have all the rights, benefits and privileges of US citizens in the US that work harder than legals?!? "
    I thought it was agreed that illegals don't have all the rights, benefits and privileges of US citizens. Let's try this again. Illegals (who have none of the rights, benefits and privileges of US citizens) work harder in most cases, than legal Americans. Agreed? Whether or not it's because "they have to" or they're just not as spoiled or spoon fed as most Americans is what is disputed if I'm not mistaken. 

    "Respect for the government and law and order isn't the same thing as trust in government, and that respect is the highest it's been in nearly half a century."

    That is a poll for local police, not the government. Local policemen are respected because they are our neighbors and friends. They aren't bought and paid corporations like USGS and you really can't respect an organization you don't trust, agreed? It can be safely assumed that if you don't trust your friend, you don't respect that person.

    "Ah, Red Cross assistance; the wall would have had no effect whatsoever on that kind of non-governmental aid."

    You don't give ANY reason for that statement. I've explained that the Mexicans aren't required to help us, since were talking about volunteers here, but putting a wall up on the border and forcing them to pay for it, essentially giving Mexico "the finger", I'm fairly certain there would be far less (much needed) volunteers to help us in this disaster. Not to mention what Mexico has pledged to help with.

    I'm interested in the point you dropped: "Meh, never mind; you're the same one who's arguing that the Earth is flat." Basically trying to dismiss my arguments on the grounds of another argument i make on another debate that you don't even participate in and are likely entirely ignorant of. Is that what you were attempting?
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    edited September 3 Premium Member

    Erfisflat said:

    @CYDdharta
    "Like working the jobs that are suddenly vacant because there are no illegals to take them."

    I don't think a wall will magically deport all the illegal laborers, no more than I think a wall will stop all the immigrants from coming in.
    Illegal immigration is already down 76%.  The wall may not stop all of them, but it will reduce it to manageable numbers.

    Your original point was "There's no evidence that illegals do much more than they have to." Now you are referring to "illegals that have all the rights, benefits and privileges of US citizens in the US that work harder than legals?!? "
    I thought it was agreed that illegals don't have all the rights, benefits and privileges of US citizens. Let's try this again. Illegals (who have none of the rights, benefits and privileges of US citizens) work harder in most cases, than legal Americans. Agreed? Whether or not it's because "they have to" or they're just not as spoiled or spoon fed as most Americans is what is disputed if I'm not mistaken.
    Yes, lets try this again;
    My only point was to illustrate that you can't compare illegal's work ethic to citizens.  Illegals work harder because they have no choice.  If you take the choice away from citizens, or give the choice to illegals, then both groups will have the same work ethic.

    That is a poll for local police, not the government. Local policemen are respected because they are our neighbors and friends. They aren't bought and paid corporations like USGS and you really can't respect an organization you don't trust, agreed? It can be safely assumed that if you don't trust your friend, you don't respect that person.
    Local police represent the RULE OF LAW, which is what I was referring to. 
    You don't give ANY reason for that statement. I've explained that the Mexicans aren't required to help us, since were talking about volunteers here, but putting a wall up on the border and forcing them to pay for it, essentially giving Mexico "the finger", I'm fairly certain there would be far less (much needed) volunteers to help us in this disaster. Not to mention what Mexico has pledged to help with.
    Red Cross volunteers are still working in Islamic states after Muslim terrorists have targeted them and killed their friends and coworkers.  No one in their right mind would argue that they'd let political differences stop them from aiding people in need.

    And I did include another reason.  You must have seen it, considering you went to all the trouble of deleting it in your reply.  Here, let me repost it for you;
    And of course they'd still be offering aid to, by far, their biggest trading partner after an historic catastrophe like Harvey, wall or no wall.
    I'm interested in the point you dropped: "Meh, never mind; you're the same one who's arguing that the Earth is flat." Basically trying to dismiss my arguments on the grounds of another argument i make on another debate that you don't even participate in and are likely entirely ignorant of. Is that what you were attempting?
    I dropped it because I consider your flat-Earth argument asinine and a complete waste of time.
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 465 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    "I dropped it because I consider your flat-Earth argument asinine and a complete waste of time."

    Have you seen any of them? How are they asanine? You should try SHOWING how they are asanine, I'd consider any scientific evidence for anything other than a flat and stationary earth. I'll bet you'd have to ask Google too.
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

Debate Anything on DebateIsland.com

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
2017 DebateIsland.com, All rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Awesome Debates
BestDealWins.com
Terms of Service

Get In Touch