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Will only people that have faith in Christ go to heaven?

Opening Argument

realDuganrealDugan 7 Pts
edited October 1 in Religion
There are numerous religions in the world, many in which require "works" to earn incentives. For Christianity, no "works" are needed, only faith in Christ. Therefore, it can be argued that only Christians (people who believe in Jesus Christ) will go to heaven. Do you think everyone will go to heaven? Or, only people who have absolute, unwavering faith in Jesus Christ? Arguments should cite Biblical scriptures as evidence.
  1. Who gets to go to heaven?

    6 votes
    1. Everyone will go to heaven.
      16.67%
    2. Only people with absolute, unwavering faith in Jesus Christ will go to heaven.
      83.33%
«1

Status: Open Debate

Arguments

  • The Christians make it sound believing, or not believing in god is a choice, when it is not. because only if we can be held morally responsible for our beliefs can disbelief be treated as a sin. It isn't possible to defend the idea of atheists going to hell unless they can be held morally accountable for their atheism.
  • @missmedic I think I see what you're saying here. For the sake of this argument, let us assume that their is a God and you are held morally responsible for belief and disbelief.
  • realDugan said:
    There are numerous religions in the world, many in which require "works" to earn incentives. For Christianity, no "works" are needed, only faith in Christ. Therefore, it can be argued that only Christians (people who believe in Jesus Christ) will go to heaven. Do you think everyone will go to heaven? Or, only people who have absolute, unwavering faith in Jesus Christ? Arguments should cite Biblical scriptures as evidence.
    Everyone?

    1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

    Luke 18:6 Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?
    8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?

    Only 8 were saved the first time God destroyed the earth. And the prediction for the second and last destruction is even less promising.

    As for believing in Jesus Christ, or accepting Jesus Christ, we have to ask one simple question: "Which one?"
  • WakeWake 119 Pts
    Only those people who adhere to Christian PRINCIPLES will go to heaven.

    A man comes before St. Peter. St. Peter tells him to explain the manner of his death. He says that he came home in the middle of the day to surprise his wife naked. He knew that she must be having an affair and grew into a rage looking all about the house for the culprit. He looked in every room and then looking out onto the balcony of the third story apartment he spies fingers holding onto the ledge. He grabs up a cane he owns and begins beating on the fingers of a man that is hanging off of his balcony. Finally the man is forced to release his grip and falls three stories. The married man looks over the balcony to see that the man had fallen into a large patch of bushes and was laying there with a smile on this face. He grew so enraged that he grabbed the refrigerator and threw it down upon the man killing him. Suddenly he realized he had killed a man and he sustained a heart attack and died immediately.

    St. Peter says, "This was a crime of passion and your having a heart attack and dying shows that he had honest remorse. You shall be allowed into the gates of heaven."

    The next man comes up and St. Peter questions him about the events of his death. The man replies that he was on the balcony of his fourth story apartment when he misstepped and fell over the edge. He said he was extremely lucky and caught the edge of the balcony below. He was trying to recover enough to pull himself up when another man began beating on his hands until finally he was forced to release his grip and fall. He miraculously handed safely in some bushes and was laying there smiling at how God had protected him when a refrigerator had landed on him killing him instantly.

    St. Peter deslares, this was a death not of your choosing. "You have otherwise led a moral and ethical life and show enter the gates of heaven."

    The third man in line approaches and St. Peter asks him of his death. The man starts, "Here I was hiding in a refrigerator......
  • @realDugan ;       I do not believe in heaven, hell or any of the descriptions of god, put forth by any organized religion. I do not think that a man should live in fear of the god he may choose to believe in. 
  • missmedic said:
    @realDugan ;       I do not believe in heaven, hell or any of the descriptions of god, put forth by any organized religion. I do not think that a man should live in fear of the god he may choose to believe in. 

    @missmedic
    Agreed, I don't believe in a gods put forth by organized religion either. They tend to over exaggerate the word "fear" spoken of in the Bible. Many Religions even use it to put fear into peoples hearts, not the "love" this fear supposed to signify.

    Jeremiah 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.”

    Now think back when we were little children, .. have you ever wondered off from your mom or dad and fell in fear crying for them? I see that a lot in big stores, .. where kids wonder off and start crying for their parents. They are "afraid" both loosing them, and also the reprimand they will get when the parents find them, especially if they've been missing for hours, .. right?

    Well THAT is the "fear" that is mentioned in the Bible.

    But here is the thing, you have to have a close (parent-like) relationship with God before you can "fear Him". Like the lost child, he/she will not accept just any stranger, but will be fearful and cry till she finds her parents that she loves, and knows without a doubt that these parents, .. her parents, love her.

    Now if you read Jeremiah 32:40 again, it makes more sense, right .. I hope?
  • @Evidence

    I understand your point, I just don't agree with your source.

  • WakeWake 119 Pts
    @missmedic - if you were educated in Christianity you would discover that you are not supposed to live in fear of God but of not leading a moral and upright life. Is it that you simply do not care what happens to those around you?
  • missmedic said:

    @Evidence

    I understand your point, I just don't agree with your source.

    @missmedic
    Because it's from the Bible? Have you read any good self-help books other than the Bible? What's the difference? I know it's hard to find a self-help book that doesn't have some reference to the Bible, especially quotes by Jesus Christ, .. but still, what would be the difference if the source was not Biblical?

    Oh wait, .. do you mean source like "Organized Religion", .. l9ike Christianity, right?
    I gave you the Biblical version, not the Christian Religion version. It is the Bible that represents God for me, not any Religion. So why don't you try to come to know Bible God, our Infinite and Eternal Creator "I Am"? He is much friendlier than any Religion version of god/gods I can promise you that!


  • @Evidence

    As with most we do not share the same understanding of the Bible. The Bible is supposedly God's perfect Word. It contains instructions to humankind for avoiding the eternal fires of hell. How wonderful and kind of this God to provide us with this means for overcoming the problems for which he is ultimately responsible! The all-powerful God could have, by a mere act of will, eliminated all of the problems we humans must endure, but instead, in his infinite wisdom, he has opted to offer this indecipherable amalgam of books called the Bible as a means for avoiding the hell which he has prepared for us. The perfect God has decided to reveal his wishes in this imperfect work, written in the imperfect language of imperfect man, translated, copied, interpreted, voted on, and related by imperfect man. No two men will ever agree what this perfect word of God is supposed to mean, since much of it is either self- contradictory, or obscured by enigma. And yet the perfect God expects the imperfect humans to understand this paradoxical riddle using the imperfect minds with which he has equipped us. Surely the all-wise and all-powerful God would have known that it would have been better to reveal his perfect will directly to each of us, rather than to allow it to be debased and perverted by the imperfect language and botched interpretations of man.

  • @Wake

     I was raised Christian and I learned that the Christian god has to many descriptive failings, contradictions and limiting attributes to be a my god.


  • missmedic said:

    @Evidence

    As with most we do not share the same understanding of the Bible. The Bible is supposedly God's perfect Word. It contains instructions to humankind for avoiding the eternal fires of hell. How wonderful and kind of this God to provide us with this means for overcoming the problems for which he is ultimately responsible! The all-powerful God could have, by a mere act of will, eliminated all of the problems we humans must endure, but instead, in his infinite wisdom, he has opted to offer this indecipherable amalgam of books called the Bible as a means for avoiding the hell which he has prepared for us. The perfect God has decided to reveal his wishes in this imperfect work, written in the imperfect language of imperfect man, translated, copied, interpreted, voted on, and related by imperfect man. No two men will ever agree what this perfect word of God is supposed to mean, since much of it is either self- contradictory, or obscured by enigma. And yet the perfect God expects the imperfect humans to understand this paradoxical riddle using the imperfect minds with which he has equipped us. Surely the all-wise and all-powerful God would have known that it would have been better to reveal his perfect will directly to each of us, rather than to allow it to be debased and perverted by the imperfect language and botched interpretations of man.



    Thank you missmedic, actually that was nicely put. I used to struggle with the same questions myself, often daily, and many different ones too, until I started to read it outside of the box, outside of how "They" want us to understand it.

    Yes, you are correct that we don't have the same understanding of the Bible, and am glad you provided a glimpse into your understanding of it.

    Yes, you are also correct that within a few chapters the Bible jumps into "instructions to humankind for avoiding the eternal fires of hell." But that's NOT how the Bible starts out, because if you would have  looked a little more closer, you would have seen that 'God's perfect Word' starts out with Gods "perfect World" inhabited by Gods perfect creation, an image of Himself, man.

    As for as your comment: "How wonderful and kind of this God to provide us with this means for overcoming the problems for which he is ultimately responsible!

    are you saying that every wrong you do is Gods responsibility? Even wild animals know that they are responsible for their actions! That their lives depend on it!

    missmedic - Surely the all-wise and all-powerful God would have known that it would have been better to reveal his perfect will directly to each of us, rather than to allow it to be debased and perverted by the imperfect language and botched interpretations of man.

    That's why I keep saying that we must leave Religions, stop depending on our government and its leaders (voting), retake our minds, and read the Bible as if for the first time! This way, the message now is personal. Between you and God. Don't worry, if you get stuck, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to come and help us.
  • missmedic said:

    @Wake

     I was raised Christian and I learned that the Christian god has to many descriptive failings, contradictions and limiting attributes to be a my god.


    ... yes, the Christian god does have descriptive failings, contradictions and limiting attributes, I agree. That's why we should seek the God of the Bible, not the god of Christianity, or any other Religions god/gods!?
  • WakeWake 119 Pts
    missmedic said: I was raised Christian and I learned that the Christian god has to many descriptive failings, contradictions and limiting attributes to be a my god.


    @missmedic -that's only because you're perfect in every way and can see the failings of God.
    Evidence
  • @Wake

    Your right of course, fanatics are always right, everything is the lords will.

    Think for yourselves, and allow others the privilege to do so, too.

     

  • missmedic said:

    @Wake

    Your right of course, fanatics are always right, everything is the lords will.

    Think for yourselves, and allow others the privilege to do so, too.

     


    First, I clicked 'Fallacy', but then realized you're right; fanatics are always right, and this is supported by whom?
    By the 'fanatics'




    and those of us dumb cows that believe them.



    and again, the fanatics:



    and us brainwashed cows who actually believe them



  • WakeWake 119 Pts
    @missmedic - why do I find it as no surprise that you classify anyone with faith as a fanatic. But someone that classifies an entire group of people that are the majority in this country as fanatics is not themselves a fanatic. A mentally ill fanatic.
  • WakeWake 119 Pts
    @Evidence - just out of curiosity - what have you ever done in this world? What have you ever done for anyone else? The hatred that oozes from your postings is comical. 

    It so happens that I am agnostic but I recognize the overwhelming good that Christianity has achieved. You on the other hand spend your time looking for the extremists and then presenting them as the archetypal Christian.

    Just as in all of your other entries into these so-called debates you are nothing more than a center of hatred for anything that is normal. That can only lead one to believe that you are abnormal. Go agree with the flat earthists - you are of the same mind.
    SilverishGoldNova
  • WakeWake 119 Pts
    @SilverishGoldNova - Perhaps people want it known that creatures like you exist. You are the shooters at Las Vegas or in France. You are the people that loot behind the fires in California. You are the child molesters and the dope pushers. I've lived around your kind my whole life and they've always given me a very wide berth. Because I've seen the death and destruction from people like you. Do you suppose I would allow you to work in any company I've worked for? For that matter were you to introduce yourself to me I would soon discover what you actually are and make it public. I believe you to be a fake whose entire life revolves around making trouble for everyone and everything.
    SilverishGoldNova
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 711 PtsPremium Member
    edited October 12 Premium Member
    @Wake So lets just dissect this quickly

    "Perhaps people want it known that creatures like you exist": Creatures?. Lol.

    "You are the shooters at Las Vegas or in France": I mean the Las Vegas and Paris shootings were faked, so I don't really care. "You are the shooters". Please fix your grammar first.

    "You are the people that loot behind the fires in California" "You are the child molesters and the dope pushers.". You still can't use proper grammar. And now you have stooped down deeeeeeeep low. You are bringing them up for no reason out of them out of desperation so you can try to attack me because you have no real argument. Also, I don't see any issue with legalized marijuana, so I guess thats the only thing you have said correct.

    "'ve lived around your kind my whole life and they've always given me a very wide berth. Because I've seen the death and destruction from people like you. " So you've been around alot of flat Earthers. That would explain why you are comparing people who disagree with you to looters and rapists since even then you didnt want to change your view. "Death and destruction". You sure? Or are you just pathetic? 

    "Do you suppose I would allow you to work in any company I've worked for? For that matter were you to introduce yourself to me I would soon discover what you actually are and make it public. I believe you to be a fake whose entire life revolves around making trouble for everyone and everything." The majority of your posts have been bragging about you working at some company... name it. Bragging and comparing people who disagree with you to looters and rapists isn't an argument by the way, its childishness. I'm going to leave before this thread gets flooded with your vacuous comments 
    FascismEvidence
  • FascismFascism 107 Pts
    edited October 13
    @Wake
    Wake said:
    @SilverishGoldNova - Perhaps people want it known that creatures like you exist. You are the shooters at Las Vegas or in France. You are the people that loot behind the fires in California. You are the child molesters and the dope pushers. I've lived around your kind my whole life and they've always given me a very wide berth. Because I've seen the death and destruction from people like you. Do you suppose I would allow you to work in any company I've worked for? For that matter were you to introduce yourself to me I would soon discover what you actually are and make it public. I believe you to be a fake whose entire life revolves around making trouble for everyone and everything.

    Equating normal people with criminals is not just wrong, but also bad for society. For example, if someone makes a claim that she got raped by a man, but it happened to be that that man didn't actually rape her, but just catcalled her, then the next time a real rape claim is made, there is skepticism that the rape claim is true or not. 

    Equating normal people with criminals takes away the problem from the real threat and the real criminals. The attention is no longer put on the real criminals, but wasted on fake ones. Instead of making these fake claims, why can't you just condone actual criminals? 

    This is present when looking at poverty for black people. The problem isn't because of businesses, and schools being racist against blacks. It's because of gang violence, and the nature of the black communities, that leave an affect on the black people. Because of this false accusation, black communities are still in deep poverty. The problem isn't solved the right way because of people not recognizing the actual cause of it. 

    (Just saying in a friendly way), don't just call everyone you disagree with as criminals. It not only worsens the situation by not convincing them, but also convinces them to do the same to you. 
    SilverishGoldNovaEvidence
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 711 PtsPremium Member
    edited October 13 Premium Member
    @Fascism Wake is pretty... vacuous. He never has any logic or evidence to support his side, so he's left with ad hominem attacks, often going as far as comparing people who disagree with him to criminals. He sometimes goes with the standard "ignorant idiot" ad hominem, and he joins threads to attack literally everyone with ad homs.
  • WakeWake 119 Pts
    @Fascism - There is a large difference between crying rape where none exists and telling everyone that will listen that the Earth is flat and the center of the universe. This is so far whacked out that these people are capable of anything. I've no doubt that this guy believes in the Kennedy second shooter on the hill or the latest - there were two shooters in Las Vegas when you can clearly see by the graph of the bullet shots that there couldn't be.
    SilverishGoldNova
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 711 PtsPremium Member
    edited October 13 Premium Member
    Wake said:
    @Fascism - There is a large difference between crying rape where none exists and telling everyone that will listen that the Earth is flat and the center of the universe.
    Its about time you admit that. You see, you have no argument, no evidence either, and you never will, so you were stuck with comparing people who disagree with you to rapists and looters. You finally admitted that has no merit
    fea
  • Wake said:
    @Evidence - just out of curiosity - what have you ever done in this world? What have you ever done for anyone else? The hatred that oozes from your postings is comical. 

    It so happens that I am agnostic but I recognize the overwhelming good that Christianity has achieved. You on the other hand spend your time looking for the extremists and then presenting them as the archetypal Christian.

    Just as in all of your other entries into these so-called debates you are nothing more than a center of hatred for anything that is normal. That can only lead one to believe that you are abnormal. Go agree with the flat earthists - you are of the same mind.

    It's not what I have done, but what you and I do that's important. I'm not "done" yet.

    "Good that Christianity done"? Believe me if anything 'good' has been done, that wasn't the Religion called Christian. That was the "people who read the Bible and try to follow Christ teachings", .. BIG difference.

    For instance: Remember mother Teresa? What she 'done', was follow Christ's teachings, like in: "Love one another as I have loved you", so she helped the poor. But what she did for the Christian Religion, or as you call it "Christianity" is irreparable evil. Throughout her life she has helped turn millions of good hearted young girls to idols, to pray to a goddess called Mary, to pray the rosary and worship the antichrist the man who calls himself "the holiest Father", .. also the "vicar of Christ" and other blasphemies.
    Do you see the difference?

    Yes, .. I am the center of hatred against evil, against those who cause most of the pain and suffering in this world. Like the ones that just took away 1/3 of my Social Security, because they are angry that they couldn't kill me yet, so they're angry that I'm taking away from the money that THEY feel is theirs, and doesn't belong an "evolving sub-human" like me.

    Agree with the FE's? No, I only agree that the Earth is flat, and with any related subjects. Remember I'm not in any religion, .. I never 'joined' any "Flat Earth Society".
    Erfisflat
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