Will only people that have faith in Christ go to heaven?

CYDdharta

Why would a Buddhist who seeks Nirvana, or a Hindu who seeks reincarnation, even want to go to heaven?

WilliamSchulz

CYDdharta said:

Why would a Buddhist who seeks Nirvana, or a Hindu who seeks reincarnation, even want to go to heaven?

That's a good point! However, at least they believe that there is some form of afterlife, which means that heaven to them would seem like Nirvana or reincarnation.

CYDdharta

WilliamSchulz said:

That's a good point! However, at least they believe that there is some form of afterlife, which means that heaven to them would seem like Nirvana or reincarnation.

If that's the case, then I think we need to define terms.  Just what did the OP mean by "heaven"?  I took it to mean the typical Judaeo-Christian understanding of heaven, as they are the only ones to use that word specifically.  The OP kinda falls apart if it's expanded to this extent.

Evidence

WilliamSchulz said:

Evidence said:

WilliamSchulz said:

Evidence said:

Schnuupi said:

Considering you'd first have to believe there IS a heaven which so far all evidence says there is not. Then my answer is no. No one is going to heaven.

@Schnuupi .. I must have gone to at least a hundred funerals in my life, .. theist/atheist, and heard a funeral service from just about every Major-theist/atheistic Religions, NOT ONE, .. this includes the deceased person who was a full blown atheist, .. was said that he didn't go to heaven because he didn't believe in it. The service always ended up with them having gone up to heaven to be with the Lord. So how can you say: "No one is going to heaven"??

So buddy, either way you are going to heaven, your 'loved ones' will send you there, .. whether you like it or not!

Evidence - I would argue something a bit different, in that at a funeral service, the hope is that you achieve heaven. One of the causes of the Reformation was people trying to bribe people into heaven, which was extremely wrong, and is one of the reasons the Protestants came about. Therefore, you can't argue that your loved ones will send you to heaven, that is God's judgement. As humans, we can hope that God's mercy will allow the person into heaven, because during a period of grief, uplifting words are better to say than "He was an alright guy who could go either way."

@WilliamSchulz
Yes, I agree. What I was doing is pointing out how lightly Christians take Jesus Christ, and not much changed after the Reformation. The Christian god is still a Trinity, some deities/demons that reside in the supernatural realm who they keep contact with through mediums, Christian Diviners, who got their degree in Divination from schools of Divinity.

as I said that I have been to many funerals in my life, and even when the deceased was a God hating, womanizing, blaspheming atheist who just hated the idea of the Ten Commandments since it came from God, and should this be the time of persecutions in this Country (which is coming soon) he would have been right there in the front lines beating and torturing Believers to try to convert them, and burning Bibles.

Let's name this guy Richard. Here is Rich laying there in the casket with all the families and friends in mourning, acting as if he was the most righteous man that ever lived. Even saying: "How will we survive without him? The world is now poorer without him. God must have really needed him to take him from us so young!" and like that, when they know what a conniving, backstabbing and yes, even Believers hating devil he was!


Here is how I believe a true Minister of our Lord Jesus Christ would start the service:

“There was a certain man named Rich who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from Rich’s table. Moreover, Rich seen the dogs came and lick his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom.

Richard also died and was buried.  And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

“Then Rich cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’  But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, yet you blasphemed our Lord, hated the Disciples, and likewise Lazarus you ignored, and even laughed at him as he licked the crumbs from under your table. All his life this man suffered from the abuse from you, and your brothers all the evil things you guys put on him; .. but now he is comforted and you are tormented.  And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

“Then Richard said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,  for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have the Bible and in it; Moses and the prophets; let them read it,  hear what they have to say.’ 

And Richard said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not want to read the Bible to hear what Moses and the prophets have to say, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

I will respond more in detail to the post above yours later, however, I want to point out that condemning people is not part of being a priest. It is not the job of a priest to condemn people to hell, that is God's job, and hey, God might have mercy of the man and take him into Purgatory. We don't know, because as humans, we can not fully understand the nature of God's judgement, therefore, the hypothetical scenario is not for the priest to judge. Instead, the priest should say, "He was not a perfect man in life, and he did much wrong through his life, yet we pray that by God's mercy, he will be forgiven."

@WilliamSchulz
So you think calling the rich man in this story Richard is a little too much? I guess you're right, but what do you think about simply reading that passage from the Bible at this guys funeral, even if he wasn't a rich man?

Take him to purgatory? Is that somewhere in the supernatural realm? The other two places would be either Abrahams bosom, or hell! Do you know more about this purgatory, because I could never find it in the Bible?

Judaism

I don't know about Christianity, but in Judaism, all people have a share to the world to come as long as they led decent lives. Such theology is found in the Talmud. Since I'm Jewish and believe in this stuff, then no, you don't need faith in only Jesus to get to heaven, such a theory is silly - think of it like this: Would G-d really burn billions of Hindus?

WilliamSchulz

@Evidence ;

I don't think calling Richard in the story was too much. I just thought it was a nice take on the rich man and Lazarus, by naming the man "Rich"ard. I will post a Bible passage, but first consider this, heaven is a place of eternal life, where we live in eternal joy for all time. However, that means that in order to get eternal joy, we have to be perfect in the eyes of God. However, as humans, this is impossible. Therefore, God created Purgatory as a way of repaying for our sins before rising into God's heavenly kingdom. If you want to read a book about this, I would suggest Dante's second book, Purgatario.

Here is the Bible passage,

"Therefore they praised the work of the Lord, the just judge, who reveals what is hidden; and turning to prayer, they asked that this sin might be entirely blotted out. The noble Judas called on people to keep themselves free from sin. . . But since he had in view the wonderful reward reserved for those who die a godly death, his purpose was a holy and pious one. And this was why he offered an atoning sacrifice to free the dead from their sin" (2 Maccabees 12:41,42,45, New English Bible).

The sacrifice refers to the penance that we have to do in order to atone for our sins at death. Even saints in the Roman Catholic Church had to go through Purgatory, but there is a special rule. The amount of time you spend in Purgatory is decided by God, because you may have more sins than other people to atone for. God recognizes that you are willing to atone, however, and allows you to work toward eternal life. However, people with fewer sins generally spend less time in Purgatory, as fewer sins to clean allows them to move faster through the 7 stages of Purgatory.

Hope this helped.