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Islam and the verse of the sword.

Opening Argument

LogicLogic 227 Pts
edited October 5 in Religion
Recently i have been studying the Qur'anic exegesis, And came along a group of Atheists. They tried to convince me Islam is violent by quoting this verse : 9:5 

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.


I came up with a crazy idea, This might be a bit too radical for some people here, But how about we.....
Read from verse one and not five?
1-2-3-4 are all like one big verse that lead up to 5. Let's see what 1 says. : 

[This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.

Okay, so we know it's not talking about : Christians,Jews,Atheists or the like. But of the 'Mushrikeen' [Polytheists of the Quraish] 
But does that justify this? Why was this verse revealed? Does it have any context?

Verse 2: So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.

Allah gives the Polytheists 4 months. 


Verse 3 : And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.

An ultimatum is given to the Mushrikeen. 
Verse 4: 

Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

So it has become EXTREMELY clear, that this verse is talking about the polytheists who broke a treaty.



joecavalrymanetai

Status: Open Debate

Arguments

  • I believe that the Islam is very violent with their beliefs.
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    @joecavalry And you back this claim with?
  • manetaimanetai 29 Pts
    edited October 5
    I don’t believe that Islam is a violent culture. The book they read doesn’t represent violence if taken literally or not litterally. Terrorist organizations have radical beliefs which may not be traditional.
    Logic
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    Words that are made smaller :

    Verse 3 : And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.

     Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].


  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    @manetai Most people who do think the book preaches violence : Have, In specific, Only read a few verses. Or haven't read the book at all and preach what they read off of anti Islamic sites.

  • FascismFascism 107 Pts
    Jihad was meant for good use. There are still good jihadists out there. For example the Muslims fighting for freedom in China. Even the BUDDHISTS are causing riots there. That's how oppressed they are. 
    Logic
  • WakeWake 119 Pts
    @Logic - Christians, Jews and Muslims are all "people of the book". All three religions are based on the Old Testament and Muslims are forbidden to harm them. (though it was common to tax Jews and Christians while not doing so with other Muslims.)

    But extremists do not as a rule even read the Quran. Many are not even literate. Not being aware of what their own religion says it is easy to convince them of anything.

    There are very few polytheistic religions left in the world today and the Muslim extremists do not bother them. Instead they are convinced by haters that their religion means something else entirely.

    So blaming the evil in the world on Islam is incorrect. A terrorist is a terrorist as our own shooter in Las Vegas just demonstrated.

    Logic
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    @Fascism You sir, Are a hero. But sadly, All the supposed "Mujahideen" [Jihadists] in the middle east are nothing but frauds.
    Fascism
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    @Wake ; The 'Tax' is called Jizya.  [I don't feel like getting much into it, but if you want to, sure.]

    As you have said, I strongly doubt they have read the Qur'an. But funny thing is, I don't even need the Qur'an to prove people like ISIS aren't muslims.

    Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said. "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (i.e. an evil-doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." Volume 8. Book 73. Number 70

    Isis has killed enough muslims for me to call them non muslims or disbelievers at this point.

     Islamic Military Fiqh [Jurisprudence] : During his life, Muhammad gave various injunctions to his forces and adopted practices toward the conduct of war. The most important of these were summarized by Muhammad's companion and first CaliphAbu Bakr, in the form of ten rules for the Muslim army:[7]

    O people! I charge you with ten rules; learn them well!

    Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone.[7]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_military_jurisprudenc
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_military_jurisprudence
    Thank you for reading!
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