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should vaccines be given to children

Opening Argument

I am very curious to see what people say about this.
Max_Air29ErfisflatEvidence
  1. should vaccines be given to children

    9 votes
    1. yes
      88.89%
    2. no
      11.11%
«13

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Status: Open Debate


Arguments

  • Yes, they can help fight diseases, etc.
  • @Max_Air29 yeah, i completely agree. 
  • I think it should be optional. 
    EvidenceDrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • The idea that my kid would give yours some sort of disease if I don't subject them to shots and your kids did get the shot is like claiming that you'll get soaked if you go out in a rain shower with a raincoat on. If your kids are supposedly immune, what does it matter if my kids is in danger of contracting some disease?
    EvidenceDrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat I think it should be a parental decision too, however not taking the vaccine drastically increases the chances of contracting diseases  
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 847 Pts
    edited October 2017
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    EvidenceDrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat they'll contract it from the environment. For example, teatnus can be contracted from soil, dust, and manure
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 847 Pts
    edited October 2017
    @Erfisflat they'll contract it from the environment. For example, teatnus can be contracted from soil, dust, and manure
    Tetanus is something that isn't contagious, and is in most cases easily preventable, as well as manageable and resolves on its own.

    Studies in the UK show that the contraction of tetanus has steadily declined for the first 60 years prior to routine vaccination being administered. Likely the drastic drop in contagion is due to better hygiene and competent wound cleaning. The US version of this graph lips off the dates before this point, making it seem more drastic.


    http://www.patient.co.uk/health/tetanus-immunisation

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/tetanus.html

    The effectiveness is not foolproof against tetanus, as this study shows.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1565228

    Where 3 cases of severe tetanus was contracted and one death resulted despite high levels of the serum in their system. Though these numbers sampling are small, it doesn't earn any vote of confidence from me for the vaccine.

    There are even studies that show that populations of unvaccinated people have high levels of anti-toxin granting them natural immunity without ever having a single dose of medication or getting tetanus by gradually and unintentionally ingesting the tentanus bacteria in day-to-day living.

    https://www.mommypotamus.com/should-vaccines-be-mandatory/

    In addition to the anti-toxin, a tetanus vaccine contains formaldehyde (preservative), thimerosal (antiseptic and antifungal containing mercury), aluminum phosphate (adjuvant), dibasic sodium phosphate (acidic medium), and sodium phosphate monobasic (fungicidal). 

    https://www.livestrong.com/article/179184-what-are-the-ingredients-in-the-tetanus-shot/

    I shouldn't have to explain the dangers of ingesting formaldehyde, mercury and aluminum. 

    I've got a few more reasons why I think at the very least it should be optional, but I'll leave it at that for now.
    Evidence
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • There are some vaccinations which should be required for all. This situation would arise whenever many lives are threatened. Other vaccinations should be optional. 
  • Fascism said:
    There are some vaccinations which should be required for all. This situation would arise whenever many lives are threatened. Other vaccinations should be optional. 
    Such as?
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • DrCerealDrCereal 99 Pts
    edited October 2017
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is no longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    DrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    The vaccinations wouldn't be useless until a certain amount of mutations occur in the virus.
    Vaccinations prevent these mutations from occuring by refusing the virus a place to thrive.

    Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus.
    MissDMeanor
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    This logic only applies when a certain disease has been eradicated.
    MissDMeanorErfisflat
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    The vaccinations wouldn't be useless until a certain amount of mutations occur in the virus.
    Vaccinations prevent these mutations from occuring by refusing the virus a place to thrive.

    Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus.
    How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no, if they don't come in contact with an unvaccinated host?
    DrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    The vaccinations wouldn't be useless until a certain amount of mutations occur in the virus.
    Vaccinations prevent these mutations from occuring by refusing the virus a place to thrive.

    Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus.
    How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no, if they don't come in contact with an unvaccinated host?
    They wouldn't, but I fail to see how this proves that vaccinations shouldn't be mandatory.
    This is a highly idealized scenario.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 847 Pts
    edited October 2017
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    The vaccinations wouldn't be useless until a certain amount of mutations occur in the virus.
    Vaccinations prevent these mutations from occuring by refusing the virus a place to thrive.

    Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus.
    How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no, if they don't come in contact with an unvaccinated host?
    They wouldn't, but I fail to see how this proves that vaccinations shouldn't be mandatory.
    This is a highly idealized scenario.

    Your quote was.

    "Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus." -U

    "How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no.."- me

    "They wouldn't" - u


    If my kid can't get the virus from your vaccinated kid, and your kid shouldn't be abe to contract the disease from my unvaccinated kid, why should it be mandatory the he be subject to ingest things that may harm him? Shouldn't that be a matter of personal or parental choice.

    Can I get an example of a vaccine that should be mandatory. 


    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    The vaccinations wouldn't be useless until a certain amount of mutations occur in the virus.
    Vaccinations prevent these mutations from occuring by refusing the virus a place to thrive.

    Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus.
    How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no, if they don't come in contact with an unvaccinated host?
    They wouldn't, but I fail to see how this proves that vaccinations shouldn't be mandatory.
    This is a highly idealized scenario.

    Your quote was.

    "Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus." -U

    "How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no.."- me

    "They wouldn't" - u


    If my kid can't get the virus from your vaccinated kid, and your kid shouldn't be abe to contract the disease from my unvaccinated kid, why should it be mandatory the he be subject to ingest things that may harm him? Shouldn't that be a matter of personal or parental choice.

    Can I get an example of a vaccine that should be mandatory. 


    That cut off with your quote is slightly misleading. Your full quote was, "How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no, if they don't come in contact with an unvaccinated host?"

    Your entire hypothetical situation is highly idealized. Your assuming that a vaccinated kid would never come in contact with a kid who wasn't vaccinated. This one highly idealized situation should not be the basis of your entire argument because it is completely possible that a kid who was not vaccinated could come in contact with one who has.

    "Can I get an example of a vaccine that should be mandatory. "
    Vaccines that should be mandatory should vaccinate againsts diseases that fit the two criteria:
    1.) Cause an immesurable amount of displeasure or death, and
    2.) the disease has not yet been erradicated.

    "... he be subject to ingest things that may harm him?"
    What makes you think vaccines would harm you?

    Another Argument:
    When you fail to get your kid vaccinated, you submit him to unecessary danger and potential harm. This is endangering your child and should be made illegal.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • @Erfisflat If we ever found a vaccination for the AIDS virus which we probably won't then it should be required for everyone. If we ever found a vaccination for the Ebola virus, it shouldn't be required. It doesn't really affect society, but if someone really wants it, who am I to stop them? 
  • DrCerealDrCereal 99 Pts
    edited October 2017
    The site glitched.

    The argument in this post was already made.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • @Fascism I think an Ebola vaccine would be much needed in Africa
  • I'm not assuming that, reread my argument. You've completely misinterpreted my argument. My scenario is that my kid unvaxxed and your kid vaxxed go to class together. My kid can't catch the virus from your kid and your kid can't catch anything from my kid. 

    If vaccines were administered routinely for a certain virus for three generations, the virus should be either eradicated, isolated, or extremely unlikely to be contracted, if vaccines are to be considered effective at all.

    @DrCereal
    DrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • Erfisflat said:
    I'm not assuming that, reread my argument. You've completely misinterpreted my argument. My scenario is that my kid unvaxxed and your kid vaxxed go to class together. My kid can't catch the virus from your kid and your kid can't catch anything from my kid. 

    If vaccines were administered routinely for a certain virus for three generations, the virus should be either eradicated, isolated, or extremely unlikely to be contracted, if vaccines are to be considered effective at all.

    @DrCereal
    You've then misinterpreted my argument. I was saying it was impossible for a vaccinated kid to contract the virus if they never came into contact with an unvaccinated kid. I never conceded what you just said so your argument is complete bunk. (Since your argument was based off of my answer to your hypothetical question, I'm not misinterpreting anything.)
    Bis das, si cito das.
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