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Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?

Opening Argument

Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?

Are Public Schools designed to be propaganda systems to indoctrinate the young or are the overwhelming majority of the Adult population (i.e. parents, teachers, principles, school administration, politicians, US Secretary of Education, ect.) really so ignorant/stupid that they do not recognize the blatant miseducation/abuse that is occurring year after year, generation after generation, ect.?  Or, do you challenge the premise of the question entirely?  Thoughts?   

As a reference, see short video where Linguist/Commentator Noam Chomsky discusses the Public Education System:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo
joecavalry
  1. Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?

    6 votes
    1. Yes
      66.67%
    2. No
      33.33%

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Status: Open Debate


Arguments

  • Public schools may promote their own views based on the country. The UK may not reach about the Revolutionary War, North Korea peossiblt promoted their own propaganda, etc.
    DrCereal
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • Public schools may promote their own views based on the country. The UK may not reach about the Revolutionary War, North Korea peossiblt promoted their own propaganda, etc.
    Sources required.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • Education is indoctrination and most governments, and/or theocracies play a role in education; hence, the “propaganda” factor. Nothing new here, it’s just classic education.

    As for one’s opinion on “blatant miseducation/abuse” is simply relative to one’s ideology. 

    xMathFanxDrCerealWilliamSchulz
  • Mike said:

    As for one’s opinion on “blatant miseducation/abuse” is simply relative to one’s ideology. 


    If blatant miseducation/abuse was simply relative to one’s ideology, our high school graduates would be on par with other industrialized countries, not barely above average in reading and science and well below average in math.
    DrCereal
  • It's not intentional brainwashing for most, it's more like unintentional conditioning to 'obey'.

    The naturally rebellious but intelligent will do unfairly bad in school and the naturally obedient but less intelligent will do unfairly well. Both of those types end up evening out due to later life decisions making up for their underachievement or overachievement so overall it's not too bad.


    WilliamSchulz
    I come to debate, I stay to troll,
    I leave to think, I return to brawl.
  • It's not intentional brainwashing for most, it's more like unintentional conditioning to 'obey'.

    The naturally rebellious but intelligent will do unfairly bad in school and the naturally obedient but less intelligent will do unfairly well. 
    @someone234 ;

    I agree with essentially everything you said up to this point
  • It's not intentional brainwashing for most, it's more like unintentional conditioning to 'obey'.

    The naturally rebellious but intelligent will do unfairly bad in school and the naturally obedient but less intelligent will do unfairly well. Both of those types end up evening out due to later life decisions making up for their underachievement or overachievement so overall it's not too bad.


    Could you elaborate more fully on how standard education brainwashes people?
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • @xMathFanx

    Naughty-Kid Type: The very rebelliousness that caused them issues in school turns into determination and dominance in later life to either own their own business or rise the ranks by street-smarts even if they aren't the owner/manager.

    Good-Boy/Girl Type: They remain subdued and whether or not they are happy in life, they never go far in anything they pursue as they are content and happy with pleasing their boss rather than focusing more on pleasing their boss' boss as well as working out who not to obey when it comes to colleagues. 
    xMathFanx
    I come to debate, I stay to troll,
    I leave to think, I return to brawl.
  • CYDdharta said:
    Mike said:

    As for one’s opinion on “blatant miseducation/abuse” is simply relative to one’s ideology. 


    If blatant miseducation/abuse was simply relative to one’s ideology, our high school graduates would be on par with other industrialized countries, not barely above average in reading and science and well below average in math.

    Relative to my ideology the factors involved in a child’s education is 60% at home and 40% at school. If the parent does not like the school because the parent perceives some level of “blatant miseducation/abuse,” it is then the parent’s responsibility to choose a better school or home school. I take the position it is the parent’s full responsibility to decide if their child will have the tools and discipline to excel “above average in reading and science … math,” etc.

    No educational system is perfect, nor any two schools being equal. In addition, no two students are the same.

  • someone234someone234 154 Pts
    edited December 2017
    @DrCereal To begin with, we can get surface level conditioning/brainwashing:
    1) The subjects that remain mandatory at times when other subjects become optional are forced upon students to be ranked as 'more important'.
    2) A student who has bad grades is probably not cut out for standard teaching style but instead of exploring more hands-on styles of teaching than the 'write and read' style, these students are told to try even harder at their sub-optimal learning method and spend the entirety of school not exploiting their unique talent for learning by doing unless they are good at sport by chance.
    3) Bullies are rarely dealt with harshly unless the student is in any way helped by other witnesses. If/when the child may snap and fight them, if the child hit first they are put into worse position as now if they cause further issues by fighting back even verbally they can easily be portrayed as the bad guy. This is true even in the adult world and isn't unique to school. The idea that you can be physically hit for mental abuse/torture doesn't please most socially manipulative people and since they get along well with nicer, social people than the socially awkward victims they pick on then the sociable people who don't bully support the concept that hitting first is always wrong but making someone's life hell by verbal and non-obvious ways is perfectly permitted unless enough witnesses unite against the bully. This is something I learned a lot from though. As a child I was piss-easy to pick on and everyone knew how to get under my skin, now I'm the guy who no one can get under the skin of and if they do I immediately make them fear me as I find their weaknesses and wind them up worse but usually just shock them with how little their taunting bothers me. I've had real bullies talk bad about me behind my back but because I laugh at it if I hear it or smirk in their face as they tell me how idiotic or worthless I am, they soon find easier prey to pick on emotionally.
    4) The syllabus of history especially but also other subjects especially English where the books studied are taught with certain interpretations etc... Well you get the point. I don't think I need to explain how history as a subject involves brainwashing but if you need proof and stuff then you're probably too brainwashed to repair (or trolling and not worth proving to).
    END NOTE: These are just 4 of about 13 surface level conditioning things that go on in standard schools.


    Now let's go into more low-key brainwashing:
    1) Specialists who are freakishly good at one subject and who could get 100% scores or near that regularly in exams (so I'm not even criticising exams here) are completely hindered due to the variety of subjects and even topics within subjects that are forced upon a student at school. All the effort and time they put into the other subjects can end up meaning they get worse than the 99% they could get at their subject due to the limitations of time and energy quite simply. So, naturally semi-talented people at subjects end up much more able to excel at the many things they are good at due to the combination-subject style that happens as you excel in school. They then can also afford more time to do extra curricular activities while the specialist nerd has to spend more time trying to get decent grades at subjects they absolutely have no natural talent for just to be acceptable to a university later on but due to the extra-curricular etc the others are doing on top of their studies and still outdoing this nerd, the specialist geek gets destroyed to the bitter end of their schooling life.
    2)  Natural leaders (people whose skill-sets are literally in organising and managing teams of people) are usually the ones who furthest in life later on but during school their entire skill-set only matters in group projects where their team may be incompetent or abrasive and impossible to 'lead' as they themselves want ot be the leader. These people usually cope the best with getting bad grades as they have the perseverance to start from scratch either in the arts leading their team of producers etc as a music artist or team of CEOs as a business Chairman. Nonetheless, during school they very likely felt underappreciated and hated every second of it.
    END NOTE: These are the 2 primary ways that the entire system of schooling is designed to brainwash people to excel who are of a less assertive and less ground-breaking in their level of talented meaning what it's designed to help is people who are naturally not that great at anything and not all that ambitious or cut-out for leadership.
    I come to debate, I stay to troll,
    I leave to think, I return to brawl.
  • I agree!  o:)
  • Public schools may promote their own views based on the country. The UK may not reach about the Revolutionary War, North Korea peossiblt promoted their own propaganda, etc.
    Keep in mind that the particular course for this is called History. In our system, we have world history and continent history, ie. AP European History, but we also have a history about our country. This is important because if our citizens know basic facts about how our government is run or how we legally use our Bill of Rights, than citizens will be much more informed and make better decisions than a country whose citizens argue about if the BOR really exist. Therefore, it may seem like there is propaganda going on in schools, but this is not true. Since teachers have to teach a curriculum, they may have BIAS, but NOT PROPAGANDA. That is the center piece here, it may feel like the government is force feeding us information, but if that bothers you, there are always room for dropouts.
  • The largest issue (as I see it) is that people who respect intellectualism/independent creativity are in the extreme minority (I'm speaking strictly of adults now--those old enough to have been fully physically matured and have "life experience". One would expect them to have some wisdom to impart once they have been in the world for 3+ decades, although this is often not necessarily the case). Therefore, most people inevitably are not going to be fostered in such a way as to bring about the best in their intellectual/creative capacities while in the bulk of their most formative years (growing up), will lack exposure to areas outside of immediate contact (e.g. how is one going to "realize" they have a passion for and want to pursue Paleontology when all they have ever seen is their father/men watching Football and their mother/women at at minimum being very sympathetic to the father's/men's behavior/worldview?--I know that I am speaking rather generally here, but I think you (the reader) understand my point). The scenario I described above, concerning the father, is firmly inside of what I often refer to as the Mammal Snow Globe World that most adults inhabit (and have tacitly agreed with each other not to "shake up"). In order to not shake up the Snow Globe, the adults are forced to subject their children to a Perpetual Firehose of Bullsh't or else (if the children found out any deep truths about ourselves and/or the Universe which have been discovered thus far) they would be bound to break free of the confinement.

    As of right now, the education system is so bad and the adults are so oblivious/stupid/ignorant/arrogant that they can't even let the kids come in to school and watch credible lectures, documentaries, OpenCourseware or point them in the right direction with people to look up, book recommendations, the fundamental questions that any given topic is exploring , ect. The kids would be naturally drawn to this information if they were exposed to it, they simply are not exposed to it because there is an obscurantism at work that is pervasive in our society (and world wide). Instead, in the current system, children growing up through their teenage years into young adulthood are subjected to a Perpetual Firehose of Bullsh't through the "education" system and the "mature" adults in our societies.

    People have been strongly primed to believe that magical type thinking is "wonderful", "beautiful", "interesting", "hopeful", "fun" ect. due to things like Sana Claus, Easter Bunny, Superhero tv/comics, Harry Potter type Sci-Fi, ect. ect. Although these things in-and-of-themselves are not harmful (and can be enriching in many ways), when combined with not being exposed to the real world, how it actually is and the methods by which we have determined our limited range of knowledge thus far, then the magic show becomes extremely pernicious. Also, the majority of adults are so attached to their infantile superstitious beliefs that they think learning science is "dry", "scary", "cold", "devoid of any deep meaning/feeling" and don't want their kids to learn it either for these reasons. This combination confines children to the mind-space of the Mammal Snow Globe rather than what me know of the Real World thus far.

    Furthermore, the leaders of the business world and governments (the powerful classes) have a vested interested in keeping the populace misinformed, uneducated, unintelligent, conditioned toward obedience, ect.

    Now, after people hit a certain age there is going to be a level of courage required of people in order to break free of the Mammal Snow Globe World for which they have always resided. We are in a very difficult predicament because we cannot allow adults to program their children with this primitive mindset and we also cannot force them to teach their children a certain way either without becoming completely tyrannical. Even people who have the potential to be intelligent (or highly-intelligent) and make real contributions to society/progress are being reduced to half-mentally disabled, chimp-human hybrids (i.e. never fully progress/develop our of being merely a Mammal and toward a Homo Sapien, so to speak--"Mammalhood") that are destroying society/the upcoming generations (and it is sad/alarming because I have seen a lot of this at Uni. particularly in the technical subjects). The overwhelming bulk of the adult population are oblivious to just how breathtakingly unrespectable people they are for indoctrinating their kids into their bullsh't instead of having the courage to face reality (as we currently understand it) as well as how they comport themselves in life more broadly.

    I stated that "they" are confined to "Mammalhood", because Homo Sapiens living in the 21st century fails to truly capture it. Brain Development in Humans/Homo Sapiens is an important factor here, because one does not truly acquire the unique characteristics that make us "Human" until you are in your low to mid twenties or so when frontal lobe development is completed. Now, there are many factors that can potentially "derail" this development such as excessive alcohol abuse, chronic stress, social isolation, other types of drug abuse, ect. I think that due to the way our society is structured, a huge bulk of peoples brains are not becoming properly/fully developed and confine them to a stage of quasi-Homo Sapiens (e.i. more like an adolescent or quasi-adolescent brain) for the entirety of their life. Now, it would be highly probable that said people are unable to recognize the failure of their brains to fully mature since their mind-space would have complete continuity from their adolescents-young adulthood-adulthood, and simply think that "this is how things are" while failing to realize that a "shift" should have been felt at some point in their twenties to thirty that is significantly different than that of the teenage mind/brain.

    Now, the k-12 public school teachers typically defines the lower-end of the Educated class as merely a Bachelor's degree in Education or the like is required to earn the job rather than the more advanced levels of formal Education required of College/University Professors for example. Due to this, the k-12 teachers tend to be aware/educated/intelligent enough to teach the material they are instructed to in the curriculum, however lack the depth of critical thought to challenge the system itself and thus are unaware that they are in fact subjecting the children to a Perpetual Firehose of Bullsh't.(Note: I am in no way stating that this is 100% of public k-12 teachers, rather it accounts for the overwhelming majority to such an extent that it would put a truly educated/intelligent/ect. teacher in a very difficult situation indeed (as they are instructed to teach the curriculum rather than the reality of what is known--and would have to oppose the system's status quo in order to undertake the proper/ethical course of action)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    After one has completed the k-12 system, serious problems in our education system persists (although importantly it improves). In our current Education system (i.e. USA's and elsewhere), one could acquire a PhD in Biology (or any other STEM discipline) from Princeton (or some other elite school) and still be a confined to Mammal Snow Globe World, thus lacking the requisite critical thinking skills that would allow them to escape the mind-space for which they were raised.

    A lot of the sane Professors are cowed into silence due to the hierarchy of the University system. That is, if a Biology professor wants to talk with candor about Evolution (not in the "textbook" way, but in the real way that "hits home" with the students who are mostly very young still), then en masse, he is going to shake up the students Snow Globe in such a way that will be very perturbing/frightening/shocking/intimidating/ect. for them with 5 separate classrooms each full of 25-200+ students (depending on the course) every semester. Now, they are immediately going to run into a huge amount of trouble, because some good percentage of these kids are bound to tell their parents about it, they and/or their parents are going to complain/issue a report to the "higher-ups" in the administration (who have no understanding nor interest with what the Professors know or the nature of the subjects, while also fancying themselves as "intelligent" because they are "successful" in the business world so they are very stubborn), the Professor very likely could/almost definitely lose their job (that they went to school for over a decade plus post-doc position just to be sufficiently credentialed to get the job). Therefore, this creates a "safe" environment for the ignorant/stupid "people to get "educated" and "earn" their degree without really understanding an iota of the subject. Furthermore, the students who are sane/outside the Snow Globe and really want to know about the true nature of the topics in detail are "missing out" because the teachers intentionally never say enough to "bridge-a-gap" for their own sake. Thus, one would have to do a lot of extracurricular studies in addition to the formal studies just in order to keep pace with the reality of what is being taught. However, since they are undergrads, the whole point in the schooling in the first place is to receive proper mentorship from a qualified instructor, hence they do not necessarily know where to look in order get to the truth of the matter and keep pace. In short, it is hopelessly f'cked up unless society changes first.
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