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The Big-Bang Story

Opening Argument


(I put this in "science" since it is falsely labeled, and even talked about as science. The proper place for this O.P. would be in: "Religions and the Fantastic Stories behind them")

For the O.P.
Prove that the so called "Cosmological Big-Bang Story" is actually a theory?

Here is the "story":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

The claim: The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model for the universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution.

My friend Erfisflat showed me this:
https://cor.gsfc.nasa.gov/

  • We wish to understand when the first stars in the universe formed, and how they influenced the environments around them.
  • How did dark matter—which is pervasive, mysterious, and not at all understood—clump up in these very early times, pulling gas along with it into dense concentrations that eventually became galaxies?
  • How did galaxies evolve from the very first systems to the types we observe "in the here and now," such as the Milky Way in which we live?
  • Supermassive black holes are apparently pervasive in the universe, and we wish to understand when in the early universe they first formed and how they have affected the lives of galaxies in which they reside.

The story goes; that our second heaven(*1) where God put all the stars in is actually a cold, expanding vacuum of infinite size which they call the Universe, where we humans, including all the animals, plants and this whole Flat Earth which they call a globe/sphere is spinning and twirling through on a cosmic fabric.

Here is what they say how this "globe-earth" idea started:

- The earliest reliably documented mention of the spherical Earth concept dates from around the 6th century BC when it appeared in ancient Greek philosophy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth


(*1) - first heaven for us who do observation (science) is where the birds fly, the air, and the second heaven is where we see all the stars of heaven.
ErfisflatSilverishGoldNovaVaulkBaconToesagsrDrCereal
«134


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Arguments

  • OK, I'll start:

    Yes, the Big-Bang is a theory because NASA, and CERN who get trillions of dollars in funding says it is!
  • They do not get get trillions. they get 20 billion a year

    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • edited February 4
    A magic explosion occurred out of nowhere creating everything, and we know this because my science book said that we detected radiation from nearly 100 billion light years away.
    "I have left my Christian Religion, and realized what all Organized Religions have in common: "to replace our One and only Possible Creator God with their own version of god".- Evidence, on this website

    http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html

    If you are an adult, there is no reason for you to keep believing in things like Santa, The Easter Bunny, The Cleveland Browns, The Arizona Coyotes, The Big Bang, Evolution, or the Sphere Earth Theory
  • SilverishGoldNovaEvidenceBaconToesPogue
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Evidence

    I don’t think you understand how the basic scientific method actually works, nor how scientific conclusions are drawn, and how we assess their validity.

    PogueBaconToesErfisflat
  • A magic explosion occurred out of nowhere creating everything, and we know this because my science book said that we detected radiation from nearly 100 billion light years away.
    Two mutually exclusive claims. If someone tested a hypothesis via experimentation them that is science, not magic. You can disagree or critique the science, but that involves actual valid criticism so I won't hold my breath.
    PogueErfisflat
  • Pogue said:
    They do not get get trillions. they get 20 billion a year



    I meant over the life of NASA, .. so it's 20 billion a year? Is that tax-free?

    Hey @Erfisflat @SilverishGoldNova .. I change my mind about the Flat Earth, with all that money they rake in I want to be an Astronaut, .. I mean how can I loose:
    there is no BB-space, the rockets go up, turn and crash somewhere so I won't even have to take off in one. I would like to go in the NASA Zero-G plane though
    Erfisflat
  • Gooberry said:
    @Evidence

    I don’t think you understand how the basic scientific method actually works, nor how scientific conclusions are drawn, and how we assess their validity.



    Thank you @Gooberry so here we are, you can show us how the "scientific method actually works"? I'm serious my friend, show me how this story became a theory?

    Where would you like to start, how about with the Catholic Jesuit Priest who came up with the Big-Bang phrase, .. I mean right there, "Big Bang!" .. where did the "sudden expansion" take place in?

    Where are we "expanding in"? I believe this would be a good start, don't you?

    If not, I am listening. Just over a year ago I was spinning through space too, so let's prove @Erfisflat wrong, shall we?
    Erfisflat
  • Evidence said:
    Gooberry said:
    @Evidence

    I don’t think you understand how the basic scientific method actually works, nor how scientific conclusions are drawn, and how we assess their validity.



    Thank you @Gooberry so here we are, you can show us how the "scientific method actually works"? I'm serious my friend, show me how this story became a theory?

    Where would you like to start, how about with the Catholic Jesuit Priest who came up with the Big-Bang phrase, .. I mean right there, "Big Bang!" .. where did the "sudden expansion" take place in?

    Where are we "expanding in"? I believe this would be a good start, don't you?

    If not, I am listening. Just over a year ago I was spinning through space too, so let's prove @Erfisflat wrong, shall we?
    Okay, so let’s start at the beginning. Like, right at the beginning:

    do you think it’s reasonable to claim the sun is going to rise tomorrow?

    if so, why?




    Erfisflat
  • How about this, (I just ran across this particular one and will watch it today) we can use Lawrence Krauss "Universe from nothing"!?




  • Evidence said:
    How about this, (I just ran across this particular one and will watch it today) we can use Lawrence Krauss "Universe from nothing"!?




    I think we need to start at the beginning.  Like, right at the beginning:

    do you think it’s reasonable to claim the sun is going to rise tomorrow?

    if so, why?
    ErfisflatEvidence
  • @Gooberry
    according to flat earthers, the sun doesn’t rise, it comes over head 
    ErfisflatEvidenceanonymousdebater
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • VaulkVaulk 339 Pts
    edited February 5
    Let me break it down:

    1. No one was around for the big bang, so we couldn't have observed it directly or indirectly...defeating the application of the Scientific Method for studying this alleged phenomenon for the requirement of observation.

    2. We don't know exactly when the big bang occurred, it cannot be pin pointed, so we can't replicate the controls for an experiment to test a hypothesis regarding the big bang.

    3. While I'm sure scientists agree that multiple events occurred during the big bang, since no one observed it, we have no idea exactly what these events were or what order they occurred in...defeating any chance of replicating it in any way.

    "So essentially, we're pretty sure some stuff happened, no idea where the cause originated from but that's not important.  What is important is that we're certain that it wasn't the result of any supernatural forces, it all just sprang forth from nothing, for no reason, against chance odds of 700 quintillion to one".
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • @Vaulk

    1. No, we are able to test for the expected aftereffects of the big bang using the scientific method; such as background cosmic radiation - which has been found.

    2. You are just speaking nonsense. We aren't trying to replicate the big bang, which seems to be what you're referring to by controls. Were testing the expected phenomenon which should occur if the big bang happened.

    3. Actually the scientists have a lot of evidence for the specific order for how things happened from minute fractions of seconds following the big bang onwards. I suggest you wiki it.

    Also cause wouldn't really play into the big bang as causality wouldn't have existed.

  • Ampersand said:
    A magic explosion occurred out of nowhere creating everything, and we know this because my science book said that we detected radiation from nearly 100 billion light years away.
    Two mutually exclusive claims. If someone tested a hypothesis via experimentation them that is science, not magic. You can disagree or critique the science, but that involves actual valid criticism so I won't hold my breath.
    well, I was wording it so even children could understand, but I guess I can reword it.

    The big bang theory states that, out of knowwhere, for no reason, a singularlity in the middle of nothingness exploded, and the only evidence we have for this hypothesis is the fact that we allegedly detected microwave radiation like what, 93 billion light years away (which is over 546 septillion miles, just so you know).
    "I have left my Christian Religion, and realized what all Organized Religions have in common: "to replace our One and only Possible Creator God with their own version of god".- Evidence, on this website

    http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html

    If you are an adult, there is no reason for you to keep believing in things like Santa, The Easter Bunny, The Cleveland Browns, The Arizona Coyotes, The Big Bang, Evolution, or the Sphere Earth Theory
  • AmpersandAmpersand 207 Pts
    edited February 5
    Ampersand said:
    A magic explosion occurred out of nowhere creating everything, and we know this because my science book said that we detected radiation from nearly 100 billion light years away.
    Two mutually exclusive claims. If someone tested a hypothesis via experimentation them that is science, not magic. You can disagree or critique the science, but that involves actual valid criticism so I won't hold my breath.
    well, I was wording it so even children could understand, but I guess I can reword it.

    The big bang theory states that, out of knowwhere, for no reason, a singularlity in the middle of nothingness exploded, and the only evidence we have for this hypothesis is the fact that we allegedly detected microwave radiation like what, 93 billion light years away (which is over 546 septillion miles, just so you know).
    Incorrect, we can detect the cosmic background radiation from here on earth and it is just one notable example, like this redshifts of galaxies showing that they are moving away from a single point.

    Also the issue with your previous post is not he simplistic reasoning but the contradictory positions. As you have now conceded, this is a matter of science rather than "magic".
    PogueSilverishGoldNovaErfisflat
  • NopeNope 213 Pts
    Pogue
  • Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    A magic explosion occurred out of nowhere creating everything, and we know this because my science book said that we detected radiation from nearly 100 billion light years away.
    Two mutually exclusive claims. If someone tested a hypothesis via experimentation them that is science, not magic. You can disagree or critique the science, but that involves actual valid criticism so I won't hold my breath.
    well, I was wording it so even children could understand, but I guess I can reword it.

    The big bang theory states that, out of knowwhere, for no reason, a singularlity in the middle of nothingness exploded, and the only evidence we have for this hypothesis is the fact that we allegedly detected microwave radiation like what, 93 billion light years away (which is over 546 septillion miles, just so you know).
    Incorrect, we can detect the cosmic background radiation from here on earth and it is just one notable example, like this redshifts of galaxies showing that they are moving away from a single point.

    Also the issue with your previous post is not he simplistic reasoning but the contradictory positions. As you have now conceded, this is a matter of science rather than "magic".
    So, because I reworded my argument a bit differently, I have "conceded" on my entire position? Same thing you did with Erfisflat... 
    "I have left my Christian Religion, and realized what all Organized Religions have in common: "to replace our One and only Possible Creator God with their own version of god".- Evidence, on this website

    http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html

    If you are an adult, there is no reason for you to keep believing in things like Santa, The Easter Bunny, The Cleveland Browns, The Arizona Coyotes, The Big Bang, Evolution, or the Sphere Earth Theory
  • @Ampersand
    Science and technology can seem like magic if sufficiently advanced (or the person refuses to accept it)
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • A singularity got too dense so it exploded and the universe is still expanding so a logical conclusion is that it had to originate from a single point. Also, not 93 billion miles. The light could not reach us because the universe is not that old. 
    SilverishGoldNovaErfisflat
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Also, religious figures like the pope stated that the big bang was real.
    SilverishGoldNovaErfisflat
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @SilverishGoldNova

    You have reverted to discussing scientific procedures and dropped any mention of magic. What is that if not conceding the point?
    SilverishGoldNova
  • Pogue said:
    Also, religious figures like the pope stated that the big bang was real.
    Yet, I'm not religious, I'm agnostic.

    Pogue said:
    A singularity got too dense so it exploded and the universe is still expanding so a logical conclusion is that it had to originate from a single point. Also, not 93 billion miles. The light could not reach us because the universe is not that old. 

    Yet, I thought it was an infinitely dense perfect singularity? 

    My point was, if the universe is really 13 billion years old, then how do we detect radiation and light from over 93 billion light years away?

    I guess you don't disagree with that.

    "I have left my Christian Religion, and realized what all Organized Religions have in common: "to replace our One and only Possible Creator God with their own version of god".- Evidence, on this website

    http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html

    If you are an adult, there is no reason for you to keep believing in things like Santa, The Easter Bunny, The Cleveland Browns, The Arizona Coyotes, The Big Bang, Evolution, or the Sphere Earth Theory
  • Also, religious figures like the pope stated that the big bang was real.
    Yet, I'm not religious, I'm agnostic.

    Pogue said:
    A singularity got too dense so it exploded and the universe is still expanding so a logical conclusion is that it had to originate from a single point. Also, not 93 billion miles. The light could not reach us because the universe is not that old. 

    Yet, I thought it was an infinitely dense perfect singularity? 

    My point was, if the universe is really 13 billion years old, then how do we detect radiation and light from over 93 billion light years away?

    I guess you don't disagree with that.

    Unless you want to provide a direct reference so we've some idea what you're talking about, we haven't.

    We can detect radiation from 43 billion light years away due to the expansion of the universe but not 93.
  • @Evidence ;

    You don't actually seem to understand what a theory is. You need to read your dictionary more.

     Theories such as the Big Bang or God for example, can be as believable or unbelievable as you care to regard them.

    Theory is not or ever intended to be, proof of anything.

    A theory is merely a suggestion. No matter how complex or fanciful it might be.
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