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should the wall be build to keep away immigrants?

atomicgunneratomicgunner 2 Points
edited January 31 in Immigration
no, the wall should not be built. It is not right.
  1. What do you think?23 votes
    1. Yes
      78.26%
    2. No
      21.74%

Comments

  • We should build a wall. As Trump said illegal immigrants are pouring into the country for he southern border.
  • No, a wall should not be built. It is not based on what America was founded on.
  • It should be built. Also, Lakmsj_2029391, America may not have been founded on letting drug dealers into the US.
  • Yes, the wall should be built and Trump claim is will be.
  • The wall should be built.
  • The wall should be built. It is necessary to the border control and national security of the United States and its people's safety.
  • keii_2039keii_2039 12 Points
    The wall should not be built.
  • The wall should not be built. It is an expensive project that may not be payed back form Mexico to the United States.
  • The wall should be built to increase national security and border control.
  • DebateIslandRocksDebateIslandRocks 13 PointsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    I think the wall is the right decision.  It is interesting to me that 75% agree on this poll.
  • Yes, a wall on the southern border is necessary and has been infnored or put away for too long.
  • ale5ale5 75 PointsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    So an undisclosed part of Trump's proposed $30bb defense supplement in the new budget will be to pay for the wall.  I would like to see ROI of that investment.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 144 Points
    @ale5 I would like to see an ROI on that investment as well, but first we would have to calculate the cost of slowing the flow of weapons and drugs across the border, and the reduction of rapes (80% of the women who cross into the US from Mexico are sexually assaulted on the way).
  • Yes, and many conservatives are now for this plan if Trump's.
  • model67model67 37 Points
    Building a wall is a waste of resources that could be directed towards a more productive goal. Are you aware of the many tunnels drug dealers build through the border?  Did you see the tunnel el chapo built to break out of prison, it had traffic signals and lighting.  I was surprise it did not have a starbucks.  If we were in the 80's, the wall would have been a good investment, but not now.  This is an excuse to kick back money to the president's friends who own construction companies and will get very lucrative contracts.  A 30 foot wall is going to open a mexican market for 35 foot ladders. 
  • Yes, model67 brought a up a good point. There are many tunnels.
  • agsragsr 276 PointsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @model67 made a good point.  We can argue investment in a wall, but we need to see a plan to ensure as that the wall will be tunnel-proof. In the Palestinian- Israel border there is a similar concern re tunnels and I have not seen a good solution. I am open to the idea of the wall that actually works, but would want to understand the ROI as others mentioned, impact on social issues, and the tunnel-proofing assessment.
  • That's an amazing point agsr and I completely agree.
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 94 PointsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    The idea of building a wall is absurd.  It was a good solution for the Great Wall of China thousands years ago, when there was a physical safety issue.  But in 2017, really?Trump made bold promises that he will have Mexico pay for the wall, but now it looks like it is in his budget proposal. The tunnel situation is a valid concern that I don't see addressed by anyone.  Ultimately @model67 brings up an interesting point. Whose interests does Trump represent. He is a real estate guy with deep roots that can never be fully traced to the construction industry. Somehow a multi-billion wall construction project will end up with lots of cash either in his pocket or his buddies.
  • lakkj_1921lakkj_1921 2 Points
    Well, I have to politely disagree with whytrump. Although, he makes some good points, I can argue against them and for them in some or certain ways.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 144 Points
    @agsr Is it imperative that the wall be tunnel-proof?  Granted, the more difficult it is to tunnel under and/or the more easy it is to detect tunneling efforts, the better.  But even if the wall can be successfully tunnel under, it will still serve a purpose.  It's much easier to cross an open field than dig a tunnel.  The number of illegals crossing will be severely limited, and much more easy to detect.  Seismic sensors can be installed as the wall is built to detect tunneling projects.  Even if the sensors are defeated, all of the people coming thru the tunnel will come out in the same area, giving ICE agents an area to target.
  • agsragsr 276 PointsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @CYDdharta, let's call tunnel-resistant instead of tunnel-proof. 
  • YYCDebaterYYCDebater 3 Points
    The idea of building a wall is unacceptable. The costs are enormous, it has a controversial effect to what has been intended, and most illegal immigrants have illegal passports and fly by plane. If you want more info, go to this link 
  • snapdapa_aqsnapdapa_aq 17 Points
    I also agree with YYCdebater. Building a wall is a waster of money and simply unacceptable.
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 94 PointsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Great video @YYCDebater ;
    so weather it is "tunnel resistant", plane-resistant. Budget-resistant, it is just not a good Imvestment for American Tax Payers.  Of course it will be fantastic for construction and real estate industry that Trump represents and financially benefits from. 

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 144 Points

    I disagree.  Even though the video is one-sided to make a point, it says that 23 to 40 of illegals come in by plane.  That means the wall could reduce illegal immigration by 60 to 77 percent, which I don't consider insignificant.

  • jabudu_wouwjabudu_wouw 2 Points
    I completely agree with CYDharta. He made an amazing point.
  • agsragsr 276 PointsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    This video is pretty one-sided as others have stated.  It is a well-made video, but sounds a bit like anti-Trump propoganda.  I specifcally would want to see factual support behind their claim of 23-40% of illegal immigrants coming by plane. I dont understand how thats possible, and if so we should look to crack down on that for sure.  Even of that's the case as @CYDdharta pointed out, the wall will still significantly reduce the inflow.  I am still very supportive of the idea of the wall,  but would want to see the financials.
  • ohhh_1083ohhh_1083 2 Points
    Trump should build a wall.
  • ale5ale5 75 PointsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Looks like there is more detail on source of funding for the wall. Tax payers are asked to prioritize the wall over airport security and coast guards, both of each are gettimg draconian cuts in Trump's new budget
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/to-fund-border-wall-trump-administration-weighs-cuts-to-coast-guard-airport-security/2017/03/07/ba4a8e5c-036f-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_border-0634pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.47e76a565f03
  • joecavalryjoecavalry 68 Points
    Yes, illegal immigration needs to stop.
  • agsragsr 276 PointsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    More details came out regarding funding of the wall.

    Trump Administration Gives Details on Border-Wall Plans
    so far I didn't see anything that would address the tunnel concern though.

    The fate of the supplemental 2017 spending will be the first sign as to whether Congress is prepared to go along with Mr. Trump’s vision for an expensive wall along the border. 


    the administration is asking for 20 miles of new wall construction, including 14 miles in the San Diego area and 6 miles in the Rio Grande Valley, Texas, area. The San Diego stretch, estimated at $251 million would cost nearly $18 million per mile. The Texas stretch, at $146 million, would cost $24 million per mile.
    The administration is also asking for a new levee-wall system over a 28-mile stretch in the Rio Grande Valley, which would cost nearly a half-billion dollars alone, or just under $18 million per mile. The entire Texas portion of the border is marked by the Rio Grande River.
    Finally, the administration is asking for 14 miles of replacement fence in the San Diego area, at $102 million, or about $7 million per mile.
    The rest of the administration’s request would pay for surveillance technology, such as new integrated fixed towers, and for road construction.



    https://apple.news/As5PYe1vfT9KzH_1pjvZtzw
  • VaulkVaulk 111 Points
    Many interesting and good points being brought up here from @agsr , @ale5 , @CYDdharta ;, and many others.  My weigh-in on the wall is simply this: What have we been doing about illegal immigration, drug running and criminals crossing the border?  Has it been working?  If it hasn't been working and there exists significant evidence that our methods are ineffective so far...what proposals do we have that are up and being considered right now to replace our current method?  And finally: "Who else besides Trump has brought up the issue (Before he did) of the problem at our border and has offered a viable solution"?As far as I know, there isn't another proposal in the air currently that passes the common sense test or appears to be a legitimate solution to the overall problem.  

    I'll concede that Trump's "Great Wall" idea might not be the best idea...but legitimately, what other proposals do we have to compare it to?  SERIOUSLY...can anyone name ONE proposal that existed BEFORE Donald Trump brought it up during the Election race?  If you're firing up google right now then the answer is "No".  Granted I don't viciously keep up with the news but the only Headlines I recall about the border before Trump came along and made it a hot topic was essentially in layman's terms "Our border sucks, anyone can cross it, we can't stop them".  So before everyone goes casting the first stone at Trump for his larger-than-life idea, ask yourself "Who else is honestly trying to fix this problem and what did they actually do to fix it"?  Because as far as I'm concerned, Trump is the only one that's proposed something that even remotely looks like a solution.

    ~Now for specifics~

    @YYCDebater , Seeings how it's no mystery that the actual number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. is unknown...how could anyone possibly state that "Most illegal immigrants have fake passports and fly by plane"?  This sounds suspiciously like an inflated statement used to reinforce a biased agenda.  Even the Federation of American Immigration Reform concedes that their numbers are estimates at best because there is "No known Data" regarding the population of Illegal Immigrants in the U.S..  It's ALL estimates and there can be NO standard of accuracy due to the disparity in numbers.

    model67 , I don't fully understand your point, you're saying that because the wall couldn't possibly be 100% effective at deterring Illegal Immigration, that we shouldn't build it?  Also, what is this "More productive goal" that you're referencing?  I contest that there is no plan, system, program, idea, policy, rule, law or code that has ever or will ever be all-encompassing, totally effective or essentially a "Fix-All Solution".  Implying that a preventative measure needs to be 100% unbeatable in order for it to be considered viable would mean that none of our current preventative measures in the U.S. are viable and should all be done away with...from the Police Department all the way to the top of the Government offices.  This is absurd.  There is no such thing as a singular fix-all solution to a problem as massive as Illegal Immigration. 

    I would agree that halting the border crossing is the way to "Begin" this solution and when considering how to stop someone from trespassing...a very common and historically successful method has always been the use of physical boundaries (Walls, fences, barricades).  I think the wall should be built and we should re-assess our border security afterwards to determine what else needs to be done to halt the inflow of Illegal Immigrants.


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