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Religion or Atheism Which is better?

Opening Argument

LogicLogic 230 Pts
In my  view, Religion has given purpose to many meaningless people, While at the same time giving hope to the hopeless.  And chances are one of them are right. So is it so bad , To try out a new religion?
DavidDebatesRollTide420
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Status: Open Debate


Arguments

  • I prefer religion, real or fake it keeps you active. I happen to believe it's real.
    Khan823Sonofason
  • LogicLogic 230 Pts
    @ludil_hanza Same here. I mean, You reap the reward if it IS real. A very good reward.  
    m_abusteitSonofason
  • inc4tinc4t 154 Pts
    For many people religion provides a good way to live and a life purpose. It is also a great way to drive a sense of community.
    That said, for many it is important to believe in individuality.
  • Neither one is better, a religious person can be just as smart, morally good or fulfilled as an atheist
    SaltyDog
  • @melanielust, good point.  Religion is a good way for many to achieve self-actualization, but certainly not the only way
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • CovenyCoveny 399 Pts
    Every religion has blood on it's hands. The various worshipers of yahweh (baptist, jews, catholics, islamic, etc) have been killing, torturing and stopping progress for thousands of years. The purpose of religion is to control the masses, and turn a profit in the process. Although it has good people in it, the over all effect is negative. Much of the division in our world today can be attributed to religion, and the dominant religions keep splintering into smaller groups that fight over the various versions of the same text, or if new text is valid or not. I ask you to take a few minutes to look through http://whatstheharm.net/. Religion may give some sense of peace, but the impact on the world is not peaceful in any sense of the word. 
  • CovenyCoveny 399 Pts
    Every religion has blood on it's hands. The various worshipers of yahweh (baptist, jews, catholics, islamic, etc) have been killing, torturing and stopping progress for thousands of years. The purpose of religion is to control the masses, and turn a profit in the process. Although it has good people in it, the over all effect is negative. Much of the division in our world today can be attributed to religion, and the dominant religions keep splintering into smaller groups that fight over the various versions of the same text, or if new text is valid or not. I ask you to take a few minutes to look through http://whatstheharm.net/. Religion may give some sense of peace, but the impact on the world is not peaceful in any sense of the word. 
    Imbster
  • LogicLogic 230 Pts
    Yeah, Stalin [An atheist] must have been great, In your opinion of course @Coveny  .  None of the religions above, Order the killings of innocents, As has been done by each religion. 
    SaltyDog
  • CovenyCoveny 399 Pts
    @Logic he's a great example of theists destroying the world yes. Son of a priest, raised in a devote christian household, where he was abused from birth, but still chose to spend five years in the Greek Orthodox seminary. So thiest made him the man he was regardless of his personal feelings which could be fall into something like (1) Anti-christian (which is NOT the same as atheist) (2) all about the power (given that he chose to go to seminary maybe he did believe but chose power over following his beliefs) But like I said it really doesn't matter, theists made him the man he was.
  • LogicLogic 230 Pts
    @Coveny  You said it yourself 'he was abused'  Whose fault is this? His parents.  So that must have left a psychological scar on him.  Theists made him the man he was, Not the religions those theists follow. Blame the followers, Not the religions. Also, I'm not christian.  
    I'm a muslim, And follow logic and use my reason in every action.
    http://islamiclearningmaterials.com/miracles-of-the-quran/
    Reason allows me to believe. Reason before belief. 
    uzairmahmud
  • CovenyCoveny 399 Pts
    @Logic if you are abused by christians you'll tend to see christians in a bad light. You'll tend to work against christians, and hate christians. The whole community back his father's abuse because the father was following the bible in beating him. Religion trapped him in a cage where no one helped him, and it pissed him off so he fought back against it. It was more than just his parents fault, religion must shoulder the burden as well. Thiests are representatives of their religion, their religion is not blameless when the teaches abuse, and create hostility. 

    You are islamic which means you believe in one more prophet than the catholics that abused him. Yahweh is your god just as it was for Stalin's parents. 

    Religion is in no way based in reason. Religion is installed in children when they lack the critical thinking skills to stop it. Very few people ever dispute that programing because to do so disrupts the very foundation of their identity. The medical term for this is cognitive dissonance. It's not even a debate I have to have with you. You can look at any other religion but the one installed in you and laugh at it right? There are roughly 3000 religions that exist, and you only believe in one of them. Thor promised the miracle of no Ice Giants, and we have proof of that miracle because there are no Ice Giants, so Thor must be real.

    Reason...

  • LogicLogic 230 Pts
    First of all, The ones who follow the religion, Don't represent the religion. I'll give you an example. Let's say a religion tells you to feed the poor, take in the orphans, pay charity to the poor.  And it's followers a psycho megalomaniacs.  They will STILL and ALWAYS be, Megalomaniacal psychopath.  And if the religion tells you to kill steal, Be a psycho, All the bad things you can imagine, And it's followers feed the poor, Give home to the orphans, Pay charity to the poor.  The only one who represents a religion, Is it's prophet. 
    I worship Yahweh? You just showed me how ignorant you are on the topic of religion.  Islam doesn't worship yahweh, Nor does it take jesus as a god. We believe allah sent a messenger for each age, And jesus was one of them. We worship ONE god, Allah. That is true monotheism.   I do know what the word reason means,It's quite obvious you didn't check my link. It contained content, Which NO 7th century man from the desert could have known.  And ALSO, That 7th century man was illiterate.  Induction. Use my reason.  That must mean something with that kind of knowledge, Knew it. And allah has 99 names, And the All knowing is one. 
    uzairmahmud
  • @Coveny, imho religion by itself is not bad. Soviet Union systemically abolished religion, killed off priests, rabbi's, etc. it replaced it with a common brainwashing propoganda where everyone believed in purity of communist leaders for 3 generations.  North Korea is another similar example.
    I think that blind faith (religion or otherwise) is risky and can be abused.  That said, there are many great benefits of religion - like sense of purpose, community, structure, etc.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CovenyCoveny 399 Pts
    Logic said:
    I worship Yahweh? You just showed me how ignorant you are on the topic of religion.  Islam doesn't worship yahweh, Nor does it take jesus as a god. We believe allah sent a messenger for each age, And jesus was one of them. We worship ONE god, Allah. 
    Are you trolling me? Allah is the word for god in islam. God and allah are just the same word in different languages. But the abrahamic god actually has a name, and that name is yahweh. .
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Yahweh

    There is some contention that Yahowah or Jehovah are the correct name
    https://www.catholic.com/qa/is-gods-name-yahweh-or-jehovah

    And there are others still
    http://www.eliyah.com/yahweh.html

    But that I as an athiest have to correct you on what your gods name... I mean the irony of that is not lost on me. And you tell me that I'm ignorant? ROFL I mean really man did you research it at all or was it like license agreement and you scrolled to the bottom and just clicked yes? Check the links out bro, you really should know the name of your god if you are going to worship him.
  • CovenyCoveny 399 Pts
    @agsr you are taking a very kind view to religion. I mean I could debate the death tolls, but I'd have to deal with BS stuff like the above where people attribute people to atheism who weren't driven by atheism. The death toll of people driven by religion is pretty impressive, but I'm not gonna go that route. I'm going to link you to a site, and I want you to read through one section... the one about children dying slowing and painfully because of religious people. 

    http://www.whatstheharm.net/children.html
  • LogicLogic 230 Pts
    @Coveny  Find me a single verse of the qur'an using the word yahweh.
    Allah means god? Holy crap!  Allah doesn't mean god, God can be turned into plural. i.e Gods.  It can be made feminine or masculine i.e Goddess, God [masculine by default]  
    Allah can't be made either.  There is no such thing as Allahs.
    god mean 'Ilah'  not allah.  You're lecturing me on my second language
    ? This is funny. I'm the one lecturing you here. 
    uzairmahmud
  • @Coveny, these are tragic examples and these people are clearly disturbed to do this.  
    I am not convinced though that declaring all religions evil because of these black marks is appropriate.  
    There are evil religious people and evil atheists.  Similarly there are great amd kind people who are deeply religious.

    To me, it goes back to abuse of power In general.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CovenyCoveny 399 Pts
    @Logic I cannot believe we are having this debate, I’m an atheist I shouldn’t have to teach you about your religion… I mean I shouldn’t. But I guess I am. So, major differences between say the catholic religion and the Islamic religion is that. 1) Islam believes Christ was just a prophet rather than the son of god 2) Islam believes there has since been another prophet name Mohammad No, the Quran does not mention Yahweh. The Quran like the new testament has scrubbed your gods name out to show that it supersedes all other gods. However, the old and the new testament are still valid in Islam(at least parts of it), and the Quran follows all the major catholic points such as Abraham, Moses, Mary, etc. https://www.namb.net/apologetics/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Christian_Bible Again, the only points of contention are about whether Christ and Mohammad were prophets. You both trace your religion back the Jewish bible. In which god was given the name YHWH which most biblical scholars believe to translate into Yahweh. To further “prove” this Arabic-Christians worship Allah. http://www.equip.org/article/allah-does-not-belong-to-islam/ From that article “it is time for all of us, especially Christians, to exercise caution when it comes to attacking the term for God in a language foreign to most of us. No other term exists in Arabic for the God Christians claim to be the one, true God.” Now as for your claim that ilah means god in Arabic this is correct, but so does allah. It’s a generic term for Yahweh. In English you “should” say god rather than Allah if you want to refer to the generic, but if you want to refer to the specific name, your gods name is Yahweh. (which is the exact same god as christians)
  • CovenyCoveny 399 Pts
    @agsr here we are going to disagree. I don't think the people who did these things were "sick or evil" individuals. I think they believed they were doing the "right" thing based on their religious teachings. I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes on this topic. http://www.sualci.com/images/steven-weinbergs-quotes-5.jpg
  • AveMariaAveMaria 35 Pts
    Religion has discovered heliocentrism, the Big Bang, genetics, gravity, the solar system, and the inner workings of earthquakes and volcanoes in the name of God.  Atheism has killed off religious people in the name of rejecting God.
  • islander507islander507 153 Pts
    @AveMaria, I don't think it's as clear as you suggest.  Many scientific discoveries are based on various pursuits, not just in the name of God.

    Similarly, while true that atheism killed off religious people in some cases (like communism regime), not all atheism is in that spirit.
  • AveMariaAveMaria 35 Pts
    @islander507  The discoveries I just listed were all from Catholic scientists (Nicolaus Copernicus, Gregor Mendel, etc.), and the Catholic Church teaches that science is the discovery of God's creation.  So, God had to at least play a moderate role in their motivation. And the basics of atheism obviously do not include "exterminate religion," but the scientific and societal progress athiesm has made has generally been toward since the neutral to morally wrong side.  Atheism has not contributed nearly as much to modern life as religion has.  Even great atheist scientists like Steven Hawking and Carl Sagan all made discoveries based off principles founded by the religiously devout.
  • islander507islander507 153 Pts
    @AveMaria, since you are advocating that religious pursuit hasn't contributed as much to modern life as atheism, what about all discoveries in the last 100 years..automobiles, planes, space travel, google, facebook, debateIsland?
  • CovenyCoveny 399 Pts
    @AveMaria um when claiming yourself to be an athiest gets you killed... people will claim to be theists who don't believe. (I've never been burned alive, but I assume it sucks)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_burned_as_heretics

    I think that both proves that athiest wasn't an allowed choice, AND that religion is NOT supportive of science.

    As for the point of morals... are you serious? Who got rid of slavery? Atheists. Who got women equal rights? Atheist. Who are making laws so that beating your child to death will land you in jail? Atheists. Who made it so you can't stone your wife to death if she's not a virgin? Atheists. Homosexuals not getting killed? Atheists. And the list goes on and on.

    Theist have a LONG history of fighting for things that we now see are morally wrong. You literally have ZERO moral high ground, and you do not... I mean like completely do not believe in the morals taught in those books/gospels.

    I mean mixed fibers... really? Bet you go to a doctor rather than a priest to rub oil on you when your life depends on it. You MUST cherry pick the bible to be able to give it any validation of moral grounds, and you know how you choose what to follow and what not to follow in out of the bible? The same morals Atheists use.

    Oh and for the record worshipers of yahweh are still burning people alive in 2017?!?!?!? 
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/patna/90-yr-old-burned-alive-for-witchcraft/articleshow/57880346.cms

    So that stuff isn't ancient past, we here in the US have the atheist morals that prevent you from being the theists you want to be.
    Imbster
  • AveMariaAveMaria 35 Pts
    @islander507  Well, Henry Ford and the Wright brothers were Christian, so there goes automobiles and planes.  Space travel wouldn't be physically possible without Newton, Copernicus, Galileo, or Rutherford, and was further progressed during its heyday by Christian scientists like Werhner von Braun and Robert Boyd.  And Mark Zuckerberg has been quoted saying "religion is very important" and has taken "atheist" off his own Facebook profile, while Google's founders (Larry Page and Sergey Brin) are both practicing Jews.  So there you go.

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