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A review of the islamic ISIS myth.

Opening Argument

LogicLogic 220 Pts
ISIS is about as islamic, As jews are hindu.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-captors-didnt-even-have-the-koran-says-french-journalist-held-prisoner-by-group-for-more-than-10022291.html  They don't even have a qur'an in their possession, They have done some of the MOST unislamic things i can think of. For instance, Suicide bombings, Killing innocents. 
I think mainstream media should take a closer look at ISIS, What do you guys think?
  1. Is ISIS islamic?

    20 votes
    1. Nope.
      35.00%
    2. Yeah dude....
      65.00%

Status: Open Debate

Arguments

  • PinoPino 67 Pts
    Any religion which can spawn such barbaric filth such as I.S.I.S. must be fundamentally evil.
    The I.S.I.S., atrocities are carried out in the name of the Islamic God, and the Muslim religious terrorists feel that slaughtering innocent infidels, non Muslims, will endear them to Allah.
    The barbarity of Islam is also graphically illustrated in their brutal Sharia law which includes female genital mutilation and murdering those a with deviant sexual orientation. 
    I feel the world would be a much better and safer place without these religious zealots.


    SuperSith89
  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
     @Pino If you are going to call the religion evil, Can you bring me a 'evil' verse in Historical + Textual context, Which orders these things? They don't have a qur'an [The holy book of islam]So how can they be following it?
  • I agree with @pino in Some ways considering that ISIS is a terrorist group.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Logic If they have a cell phone, laptop, PC, etc., they have a Koran.
  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
    @CYDdharta The french journalist which was captured by ISIS, Told the media, That ISIS is more of a political group than a religious one. Also, You ignored my challenge.
  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
    https://www.rt.com/news/190468-muslim-scholars-islamic-state/
    The day  humans grow a pair of wings, Is the day i'll admit ISIS is islamic.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Logic Islam is as much political as it is religious.  There's no real delineation.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    If the Islamic State isn't Islamic, what do you suppose it is?
  • PinoPino 67 Pts
    @Logic;- Firstly, please permit to guide you on your grammar.
    It's ''an evil''. 
    An, and not a is used when followed by a vowel. 
    The evil,(note the initial letter of evil is an e, which is a vowel)  which is Islam is graphically illustrated all over the world as the filth shoot innocent people blow them to smithereens and mow them down like flies with heavy goods vehicles.
    These barbarous atrocities are perpetrated by Quran reading Muslim terrorists from Australia to Canada and from every country in Europe to the United States. 
    I would not wish to contaminate my hands by holding the book of satanic verses nor corrupt my mind by reading the superstitious hocus pocus composed by a paedophile prophet.
    Many, too many of those who do can find interpretation within it's frightening text to justify their savagery towards their fellow man.

     
  • Yes, they are Islamic. There are many prices of evidence to support this claim as well.
    here are some...
    1) ISIS stands for 
    "Islamic State For Iraq And Syria."
    Thats the only piece of evidence you need to prove this claim. ISIS is indeed Islamic.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Logic said:
    https://www.rt.com/news/190468-muslim-scholars-islamic-state/
    The day  humans grow a pair of wings, Is the day i'll admit ISIS is islamic.

    @Logic Here's another tip; if you actually want to have a debate, you have to appear reasonable.  If you say you'll never change your position regardless of any amount of proof against you, there is literally no point in debating.
  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
    @CYDdharta It was a joke xD.  If i was like that, Then why would i be here?
    But if you have some solid proof, As to ISIS being not led by simon elliot, A jew, I'm ready to accept it.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Logic There doesn't appear to be a Jew or an Israeli anywhere in the list;

    http://apps.frontline.org/isis-leadership/


  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
    @CYDdharta I clearly stated that the leader of ISIS, Is a jew. By the name of Simon Elliot. 
  • @logic I don't belie that There's a  Jewish leader in the terrorist group ISIS. If you find some sort of evidence proving that his, that may be different, but I highly doubt it.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Logic Once again, you should try to find reputable sources.  From Wiki;

    According to the Associated Press, the Centre for Research on Globalization promotes conspiracy theories.[3] According to PolitiFact, the Centre "has advanced specious conspiracy theories on topics like 9/11, vaccines and global warming."[4] Foreign Policy notes that the Centre "sells books and videos that 'expose' how the September 11 terrorist attacks were 'most likely a special covert action' to 'further the goals of corporate globalization.'"[17] A 2010 study categorized the website as a source of anti-vaccine misinformation.[18] An Atlantic Council fellow has described it as "pro-Putin and anti-NATO".[19][unreliable source?] The Jewish Tribune described the Centre as being "rife with anti-Jewish conspiracy theory and Holocaust denial."[20] The Centre has promoted the Irish slavery myth, which prompted a letter by more than 80 scholars debunking the myth.[21] Writing for the New Republic, Muhammad Idrees Ahmad, Lecturer in Digital Journalism at the University of Stirling, describes the Centre's website as a "conspiracy site".[22]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky

  • I disagree with @cydharta and @logic . I understand logic's Source and he gave great effort attempting to find a source to prove his Debate or argument. Although, I doubt that this is true, great effort. 
  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
    @CYDdharta Wiki? Wiki can be changed by virtually ANYONE.
    If something doesn't fit the anti islamic agenda on wiki, It's far too easy to change it.
    Just look at pictures of Simon Elliot/ Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi, With american high ranks. It's getting obvious. And, You might not notice this, But anyone in islam or an arab, Would notice. Look at the shura council, Notice anything weird? If you do tell me.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 265 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Logic You may be able to change Wiki, but you can't change the AP, Politifact, Foreign Policy, the Atlantic Council, the New Republic, etc.  Global Research is a cesspool of disinformation. 

    All I see in the photos are 2 guys of generally similar build, but primarily very similar haircuts.  I can't make a positive ID on a haircut. 
  • I'm interested by the way you put the description @logic. do you mean the mainstream media is portraying ISIS as Islamic? I might have to disagree with that if so.


    Also I do believe they are. ISIS= Islamic state in Syria. They represent the most radical form of Islam. They may not have copies of the Koran but that doesn't make them unislamic; they can still subscribe to its principles. The people in ISIS are the ones saying moderate Muslims aren't real Muslims.
  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
    What principles are they following?
  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
    @CYDdharta  Mind showing me some of the politics in islam? From the qur'an, Here : Qur'an.com 
    @Pino  You've been blabbering all of your bs, But have failed to bring one verse, In full context, Ordering the evil doings you assume it does. 
    @mediucoded  Israeli Secret Intelligence Service :) 
    Why is it, ISIS has killed 10x more muslims, Then it has non muslims? 
    Israelites have HATED islam, For as long as it has existed, History tells a story. 
  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
    @CYDdharta  Mind quoting me a verse, Which proves islam is more of politics than it is religion? Here : Qur'an.com
    @Pino Stop spouting bs, Bring me these verses in full context.
    @mediucoded Israeli Secret Intelligence. Israel has hated islam from the moment it existed. History tells a fine  story lad. They have ever reason to do this. 
  • @Logic ;Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

    Isis is definitely Islam, and Islam is inherently evil.  The verses here are not bound by historical context like the Old Testament from the Bible is.  The quran is much more open ended, thus it means this command will forever be in effect.  
  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
  • Hmm.  Maybe, but how about these to prove Islam is definitely NOT peace whatsoever.  Found here: https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/10-reasons-not-peace.aspx ;

    #1


    18,000
     deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years.  (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).  

    #2


    Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killedfor insulting him or for criticizing his religion.  This included women.  

    Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad. 
     

    #3


    Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger."  In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.

    Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured lootsex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives.  He beheaded captives,enslaved children and raped women captured in battle.  Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad. 

    #4


    After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him and knew his religion best immediately fell into war with each other.  

    Fatima, Muhammad's favorite daughter, survived the early years among the unbelievers at Mecca safe and sound, yet died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only six months after her father died.  She even miscarried Muhammad's grandchild after having her ribs broken by the man who became the second caliph.

    It was the same caliph, Umar, who ordered the death of the first convert to Islam at Medina, an elderly leader who became a close companion to Muhammad and proved his worth in battle.  Sa'd ibn Ubadah was killed after a failed bid to be caliph.

    Fatima's husband Ali, who was the second convert to Islam and was raised like a son to Muhammad, fought a civil war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was a "perfect woman."  10,000 Muslims were killed in a single battle waged less than 25 years after Muhammad's death.

    Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered.  All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions.  The third caliph was killed by allies of the son of the first (who was murdered by the fifth caliph a few years later, then wrapped in the skin of a dead donkey and burned).  The fourth caliph (Ali) was stabbed to death after a bitter dispute with the fifth.  The fifth caliph went on to poison one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons.  The other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph.

    The infighting and power struggles between Muhammad's family members, closest companions and their children only intensified with time.  Within 50 short years of Muhammad's death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war...

    And that's just the fate of those within the house of Islam! 

    #5


    Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam.  Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands. A mere 25 years after Muhammad's death, Muslim armies had captured land and people within the borders of over 28 modern countries outside of Saudi Arabia. 

    #6


    Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves.  To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah.  

    None of these other religions are at war with each other.

    #7


    Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by formally threatening to kill anyone who leaves.  This is according to the example set by Muhammad.

    #8


    Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human.  Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.

    #9


    The Quran never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times.

    #10


    "Allahu Akbar!  Allahu Akbar!  Allahu Akbar!"
      
    (The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93) 
  • http://www.wnd.com/2017/04/taking-apart-the-islam-is-religion-of-peace-claim/



    That verse has not been taken out of context either.  It still applies to any Muslim to this day.  
  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
    Addressing comment 1# :  http://islamiat101.blogspot.com.eg/2012/08/exposing-lies-of-thereligionofpeacecom.html
    http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/07/thereligionofpeace-com-working-to-streamline-the-american-empires-war-on-terror/
    Try harder next time lad!
    Addressing comment 2# : Obviously you didn't watch the video i gave you because it CLEARLY gave the context. And it showed that , that verse only applied to that scenario.  I can get the context of every single violent verse. It's easy to refute people like you who only rely on what you hear about islam, But not learn. 
    Addressing comment 3# : I've made it obvious with links above that , that site is all about lying. 
  • I watched the entire video.  I'll have to back off due to little knowledge on the subject, but it is ignorant to say ISIS isn't Islam.  


  • VaulkVaulk 242 Pts
    edited June 4
    @logic,

    Let's do a comparison here.

    Catholicism:

    1. The Crusades:
        a. 1096 - Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter half the Jews in Worms, Germany. 
        b. 1098 - Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter almost all of the inhabitants of the city of Antioch.
        c. 1099 - Roman Catholic crusaders massacre 70,000 Muslims and Jews when they capture Jerusalem. 
        d. 1208 - 1226 - Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter approximately 20,000 citizens of Beziers, France, on July 22, 1209. 
        e. 1236 - Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter Jews in the Anjou and Poitou regions of western France. The Catholic crusaders trample to death under their horses 3000 Jews who refuse baptism.

    I could go on but you get the idea, the total estimates are difficult to determine due largely to inaccurate reporting standards during the time but roughly up to 50 million people.

    2. 1243 - Roman Catholic mobs burn alive all the Jews in Berlitz, Germany (near Berlin).
    3. 1298 - Roman Catholic mobs burn alive all Jews in Rottingen, Germany.
    4. 1349 - Roman Catholic mobs burn to death all Jews in Germersheim, Germany.
    5. 1389 - Roman Catholic mobs murder 3000 Jews in Prague when they refuse to be baptized.
    6. 1481-1483 - At the direction of the Roman Catholic inquisitors, authorities burn at the stake at least 2000 people during the first two years of the Spanish Inquisition.
    7. 1540-1570 - Roman Catholic armies butcher at least 900,000 Waldensian Christians of all ages during this 30-year period.
    8. 1550-1560 - Roman Catholic troops slaughter at least 250,000 Dutch Protestants via torture, hanging, and burning during this ten-year period.
    9. 1553-1558 - Roman Catholic Queen Mary I of England (aka “bloody Mary”) attempts to bring England back under the yoke of papal tyranny. During her reign, approximately 200 men and woman are burned to death at the sake. Her victims include bishops, scholars, and other Protestant leaders.
    10. 1572 - French Roman Catholic soldiers begin killing Protestants in Paris on the night of August 24, 1572. The soldiers kill at least 10,000 Protestants during the first three days. At least 8000 more Protestants are killed as the slaughter spreads to the countryside.
    11. 1618-1648 - This bloody, religious war is planned, instigated, and orchestrated by the Roman Catholic Jesuit order and its agents in an attempt to exterminate all the Protestants in Europe. Many countries in central Europe lose up to half their population.

    This is setting aside the molestation charges that have been brought against the Priests for only God knows how long.
    http://amazingdiscoveries.org/R-Reformation_Rome_crusade_slaughter

    I apologize for the length of this but I posted all of that so that I could say this:

    I'm a Christian, I don't personally believe that Catholicism is Christianity for the simple fact that its doctrine is unsound and the practice of Catholicism led to the slaughter of only God knows exactly how many Christians who were called "Protestants".  That being said, whenever someone attributes "The Crusades" to an organization...what organization do you suppose is almost always listed?  The answer: "Christians".  And it's not an unfair statement.  This is a simple reality of life, Catholicism is called Christianity and I'm lumped with them regardless of how radically different my religion is.

    So in turn, regardless of how radically different ISIS' practices are from yours...ISIS is Islamic.  They pray to Allah, they practice the verbatim violent commands from the Quran and ignore the peaceful commands.  Their doctrinal difference from your preferred method of practice doesn't qualify them as "Not" Islamic I'm afraid.
    SuperSith89
  • VaulkVaulk 242 Pts
    Logic said:
    I read the article in full and concerning your claim here, in regards to the leader of ISIS being Jewish...there is no such statement in the entire article.  Snowden, whom I know next-to-nothing about, claims that Simon Elliot is actually a Mossad Agent...but says nothing about his religious preference or his country of origin.  I know basically nothing about Mossad but from the little research I did, I wasn't able to find anything specifying that ALL Mossad agents are Israeli born natural citizens or that ALL Mossad agents are practicing Jews.
    SuperSith89
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 462 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    As much as I hate politics and getting involved in religion and such, I hate to see division amongst my peers even moreso. This is what our rulers want. Division, hate, war. The corporate media machine is in their pocket, bought and paid for. Pure faked propaganda. Unverifiable claims, like I've said before. ISIS is a hoax. Turn off the TV. Can someone with critical thinking tell me where they goofed here? Look closely.


    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 462 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Ok, nobody yet, I'll help. Look at the lighting. If this were filmed outside, the light would be coming from the sun, and would hit these actors from one direction. Their shadows are in 3 different positions, suggesting conclusively that this was filmed in a studio, in front of a green screen, with a close studio light.
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • LogicLogic 220 Pts
    Vaulk the 'violent' commands have context, And no one in their right mind woul read it and say 'Oh let me do that, 'Without examining the verse
    Vaulk
  • VaulkVaulk 242 Pts
    @Logic,

    Then by your logic (I made a pun) 25,508,000 people in Nigeria, 1,448,800 in Burkina Faso, 6,245,440 in Turkey, 3,303,630 in Malaysia (The list goes on) are all out of their minds.  Pew research below shows the percentage of the populations for the Countries I listed that have a favorable view of ISIS.
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/26/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

    And you're making an appeal to probability here by stating that essentially "No one in the right mind would do something without examining a scripture first".  This is actually historically inaccurate throughout almost all religions, you can go back and find countless instances of where people did horrible things and most of the participants were just following blindly.  Ever heard of Jim Jones in Jonestown?  Mass Suicide...had Children killed...virtually no one contested him.  To say that people cannot read something and take it out of context, or that people cannot be told something by word of mouth and obey blindly is erroneous my friend.  Name me a year in history and I'll find an example of people following an idea blindly when there was no logical reason to.





  • @Logic See, the Bible's laws of the OT are used against Christians because of some laws in that context.  They would be binding to this day if it were not for Jesus.  He came and fulfilled the law so it does not bind to us anymore involving going to hell.  Islam does not have a savior that fulfilled their law and made a new covenant, thus the verses are not out of context and you cannot call yourself a Muslim.  


  • All religion is myth.
    Originally religion was a theoretical explanation for the existence of matter.
    The myths and the theory have subsequently been debunked.
    But there is still wealth and power to be gained from the perpetuation of the myths.
    The majority of human's are easily conditioned and manipulated by the charismatic few.
    it's unfortunately the nature of the human condition.
  • @Fredsnephew
    That's an interesting point (I somewhat agree) but does ISIS have a part in  any religion (specifically ISlam?)
  • As I stated.
    All religions are myths. So there is actually no such thing as Islam.
    Islam is just a notion, a concept conditioned into the brains (organic computers) of children and gullible people. In order to perpetuate the wealth and power of the charismatic few.
    In answer to your question.
    Yes. The majority of those who support ISIS are people who were conditioned with Islamic information in their formative years and therefore regard themselves as Muslims.
  • Surah 9 verse 29 - killing non believers or pay a tax of inferiority 
    Surah 8 verse 39 - killing non believers
    Surah 4 verse 24 - sex slavery
    Surah 24 verse 2 - adulterers should be whipped
    Surah 7 verse 80–84 justifies ISIS killing gays
    Sahih Bukhari 5:58:148 -killing non believers
    Sahih Bukhari 5:59:447   -killing non believers
    Sunan Abu Dawud 38:4390 -killing non believers
    muslim Book 019, Number 4364 - killing non believers
    Sahih bukhari volume 1 hadith 24 - killing non believers
    Sunan abu dawud 2150 - Sex with war captives
    Sahih Muslim 3432  -killing non believers
    Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151 - slavery
    Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:57:74 torture

    Sahih bukhari is the most authentic hadith book and the saheeh muslim is the second most authentic hadeeth collection and abu dawud is the fourth most authecntic book.

    Your religion is born from the tortorus, violent, evil and misogynistic slave master of the 7th century and its texts are ISIS' justification of all its action from sex slavery to killing non believers. 

    Your barbaric primitive religion  belongs in the 7th century and is not accepted in western secular society. If you want to apply those 7th century violent laws, you are more than welcome to apply it back were you come from. But don't defend ISIS and claim they are unislamic when they are executing the exact same actions of your primitive profit.
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