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FBI Director James Comey proof that Trump is corrupt?

CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
edited May 12 in Politics
This makes the third person that Trump has fired under suspicious situation. I feel like this is enough proof that Trump did work with Russia to corrupt the 2016 election, I tend to lend toward Trump no longer working with Russia now that he's gotten what he wants from them. What are your thoughts on the subject?
therepWhyTrumpinc4tagsrcomey_testify
  1. What do you feel like Trumps interaction with Russia was in the 2016 election?19 votes
    1. Russia didn't affect the election, and Trump has no ties to them
      36.84%
    2. Russia didn't affect the election, but Trump still has ties to them
        0.00%
    3. Russia didn't affect the election, but Trump did
        0.00%
    4. Russia did affect the election, but Trump didn't know about it
      10.53%
    5. Russia did affect the election, and Trump did know about it but wasn't a part of it
      21.05%
    6. Russia did affect the election, and Trump was a part of it
      31.58%
    7. Russia did affect the election, Trump work with them, and continues to work with them
        0.00%
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Comments

  • thereptherep 49 Pts
    edited May 12
    I agree, Trump may have seen that the director is on to him and his cabinet. Then, he decided to fire him and use false claims or other reasons.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @therep well Comey was investigating Trump so it looks highly suspect to me.


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  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    What do you mean by "affect the election"?  It appears any Russian interference was aimed at confusing the public and sowing seeds of discontent, not at helping any one candidate get elected. 

    Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-N.C., asked if Clapper's prior statement was correct, when he said on NBC that there was "no evidence' of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian officials. When asked if that is still accurate, Clapper said Monday, "it is."

    On NBC weeks earlier, Clapper said, "We did not include any evidence in our report, and I say, 'our,' that's NSA, FBI and CIA, with my office, the Director of National Intelligence, that had anything, that had any reflection of collusion between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians. There was no evidence of that included in our report."

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/james-clapper-still-no-evidence-of-any-russian-collusion-with-trump-campaign/article/2622452





    islander507
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    I left it purposely vague to cover whatever pollers wanted it to mean. More interested in discussing it than "proving" anything.
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  • ale5ale5 123 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Coveny, I agree with your opinion that there is something going on.  Trump had to get pretty desperate to fire him and cause another perception issue.  Likely Comey was getting too close to the truth. Not sure if Comey had proof or getting to it, but Trump knew that keeping Comey at it was too risky.
    CovenySaltyDog
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • @CYDdharta, exactly. Russia effecting election is just a great consipacy theory fuled by the media.  The only role it had was maybe to add to the public confusion. Nice article too.
    agsrSaltyDog
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @ale5 Do you have anything more than conspiracy theories and conjecture to support your belief?  Is there any evidence?
    agsrSaltyDog
  • ale5ale5 123 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @CYDdharta, quite honestly I don't.  But, you have to admit that certaintly conspiracy theory just got more interesting given that Trump fired the very person who is investigating him.  That sounds really fishy and thats what many are saying.
    There is such a thing as perception management for public office and It is important to avoid perception of conflict of interests.
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • agsragsr 456 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    I agree that the optics are not great, but as @CYDdharta pointed out there is no proof other than conspiracy theories.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    ale5
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  • @Coveny, thanks for compilng these.
    bernie: of course he will use this opportunity to attack Trump to gain his own popularity 
    cnn: leftist establishment 
    french election: maybe russia interfered or not, but either way that's not proof.

    so bottom line, I agree that there is sufficient suspicion amd an independent investigation is warranted, but there is no proof of wrongdoing.
    ale5
  • ale5ale5 123 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Coveny, great marerial!
    @CYDdharta, that looks like a rather strong argument (not quite yet Trump in jail), but hopefully you can admit it's not a pretty picture.
    Coveny
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @ale5 @Coveny ; Bernie doesn't cite any PROOF, none whatsoever.  All he has is innuendo.  If that's enough for you, then you must believe Hillary should be indicted, as there's undeniable proof that she broke the law.
    islander507
  • @CYDdharta, that is another amazing point. If someone is willing to accept uncomfirmed speculation  without proof then they should be ready to accept other speculation they don't like as proof to be fair.  
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 139 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @CYDdharta, I disagree.  Of course there is no proof yet, that's the whole point.  We may never find out just how close he got, but no matter what it is wring to fire someone who is investigating you.  Just not right.
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • I disagree, he can't prove anything if there is nothing to prove or no evidence.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @WhyTrump I respectfully disagree with your disagreement.  There will never be enough proof, because now you not only need proof of wrongdoing, but due entirely to Comey's actions, you need proof of intent.  Intent is almost impossible to prove.  Hillary setting up her own illegal server and destroying files after they've been subpoenaed wasn't enough to prove intent.  There was no untoward relationship between Trump and the Russians.  If there was, some shred of evidence would have been uncovered in the nine to ten months this has been investigated.  But even if Trump had been colluding with the Russians, because of Comey's standard, there would never be enough evidence to indict Trump.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    Comey was fired because of Clinton months after the fact? Really you're buying that?

    Look Trump has ties with Russia this shouldn't be in dispute.
    http://time.com/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/15/donald-trumps-ties-russia-go-back-30-years/97949746/
    http://www.newsweek.com/robert-reich-trump-treacherous-ties-russia-531386
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/election-2016-donald-trump-ties-to-russia-go-back-years-dnc-email-hack/

    I mean pick a source...

    The only thing in dispute is if they effected ours, and if Trump was a part of it. The point of this debate should be to discuss if firing the person investigating you should be considered "proof" of your guilt. I know for many they feel like that's a very strong indicator. On top of that the reason given to fire Comey was complete BS, Trumps camp applauded Comey for making negative statements about Clinton. The after firing him Trump get's on twitter and threatens him to keep him silent? The whole thing stinks... bad.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny ; Of course Trump had ties to Russia.  They weren't as repugnant as Hillary's ties to Russia, but there were some ties.  That isn't the issue.  The issue is; was there collusion between Trump and Russia.

    Feinstein: No Evidence of Collusion Between Trump Associates and Russia
    Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia
    Ranking Democrat Investigating Trump's Russian Connections: No Definitive Proof
    Manchin: No Evidence of Collusion Between Trump Campaign, Russia
    Jonathan Capehart Skips Maxine Waters's Admission of No Trump-Russia Collusion Evidence Found

    That's a lot of Democrats and their supporters that are admitting there was no collusion.  So where did this story come from?  According to Clinton insiders;

    Authors Jonathan Allen and Amie Parnes cite a longtime Clinton confidant in detailing how the Democratic candidate went out of her way to “make sure all these narratives get spun the right way.”

    The book also reveals that Clinton’s Russia-blame-game was a plan hatched by senior campaign staffers John Podesta and Robby Mook: “That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn’t entirely on the up-and-up. For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument.” The authors said that team Clinton settled on a two-pronged plan — pushing the press to cover how “Russian hacking was the major unreported story of the campaign, overshadowed by the contents of stolen e-mails and Hillary’s own private-server imbroglio,” while “hammering the media for focusing so intently on the investigation into her e-mail, which had created a cloud over her candidacy.”

    http://www.worldtribune.com/shattered-clinton-expose-reveals-russian-narrative-was-spun-within-hours-of-trump-win/






  • I think if Trump was a real professional politician, he would know what it looked like if he fired the person conducting an investigation of him so soon after he asked about said investigation.
    frechelectCoveny
  • I agree with @melanielust . HE should have held of the firing until the investigation was finished, unless he prepped for or then is firing firing of comry a little bit more.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    The investigation was never going to finish.  It had been going on for almost a year and had uncovered NOTHING.  It was a political ploy that just would have kept dragging on with new rumors that would require investigation being leaked every time the mainstream media wanted some ratings at the expense of the administration.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    edited May 14
    @Coveny There is still no proof; and proof of intent, as Comey has made mandatory, will be almost impossible to come by.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta they had found something and proof wasn't impossible. As several of those articles mention before Comey was fired there as belief they had found the concrete "proof", was in the process of subpoenaing the required people and then right as Comey was attempting to square it all up he got fired, and told to be silent. This is what the third person Trump has fired who was investigating him now? To me that seems pretty damning...
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny There was no PROOF.  If you look at the dates of the articles you posted and compare them to the articles I posted, you'll notice that my articles are more recent than yours.  Your articles are about spurious allegations, mine are the result of looking into those allegations.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta your articles are from a bunch of politicians on the subject. You may trust politicians who have little to no visibility into investigation, I however do not. I would like to see this independently investigated. We had to waste all that money on Benghazi, I think undermining our democracy is at least as important. Obviously the FBI can't be fair and impartial at this point because Trump fired Comey. It's a valid request. Regardless though, he looks guilty to me for firing the guy investigating him on some trump'd up charge. (see what I did there?)
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny There was never an independent investigation of Benghazi.  The politicians I cited are Democrats who would like nothing more than to tear down the Trump administration.  If you don't trust politicians like Rep Schiff, why did you post a story about him?  It's pretty obvious that you though Trump was guilty long before he fired Comey, and you'll continue to believe it regardless of the total lack of proof.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta benghazi was what 7 committees? Most of which were republican lead against a democrat. If you want to get me 7 committees on this ran mostly by Democrats I'll take that instead of an independent prosecutor. I will continue to believe that we need to investigate it, and personally I feel like firing the guy investigating you is a pretty big indicator of guilt. You seem to just keep repeating "NO PROOF". Which may or may not be true, so I wouldn't hang him for treason until there was actual proof as I'm still open minded on the subject. I have however always found it ironic when someone on the opposite of a debate indicates I had my mind made but before like they both know me, and aren't doing exactly what they claim me to be doing. You don't know me, or know what my feelings were before he fired Comey, please stop pretending like you do with such certianity...
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    edited May 15
    @Coveny There may have been 7 committees, but it came down to Comey saying "yeah, Hillary may have broken the law, but she didn't mean to do it".  If the FBI couldn't find intent for Hillary when she set up a home-brewed server for the express purpose of avoiding federal archiving requirements, or after she was caught destroying subpoenaed records, there is no way there will ever be enough justification to prosecute Trump.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    Benghazi was about Hillary's email server? Interesting, I thought it was about lying to the public and if it could have been prevented. Wanna try that again?
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  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    Just watched this and found it very compelling even though I don't believe he's doing it for the countries best interest...

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/5/10/1661041/-Joe-Kennedy-III-Lays-Out-The-Trump-Russian-Collusion-Corruption-In-3-Minutes-Raise-Your-Voices
    CYDdharta
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    Coveny said:
    Benghazi was about Hillary's email server? Interesting, I thought it was about lying to the public and if it could have been prevented. Wanna try that again?
    Nope, no need to.  It was about Clinton lying to the public, which she obviously did when she denied using her home-brewed server.  Hillary's server was part of the Benghazi hearings;

    Hillary Clinton wiped “clean” the private server housing emails from her tenure as secretary of state, the chairman of the House committee investigating the 2012 terrorist attacks in Benghazi said Friday.

    “While it is not clear precisely when Secretary Clinton decided to permanently delete all emails from her server, it appears she made the decision after October 28, 2014, when the Department of State for the first time asked the Secretary to return her public record to the Department,” Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), chairman of the Select Committee on Benghazi, said in a statement.


    Daily Kos?!?  You really swim in the left-wing swamp.  Lots of innuendo in the article, too bad there is no PROOF, nothing to contradict the findings that the above Democrats have been forced to admit, that there is no evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    I guess you're starting in with the insults at this point. Well if what Trump has done is drained the swamp from Washington, then yes I swim in the swamp. Because I'm not part of the crowd that is in his cabinet, or the people his administration is helping, and spoiler alert, it's a club that YOU aren't in either.

    There is no evidence because they just fired the guy investigating it. How can you get evidence if everyone trying to investigate it gets fired?
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    No insults, just an observation.  Daily Kos is the Inforwars of the left.  They were so happy when they thought coal miners were going to lose their health coverage; it never happened, of course, but they so hoped it would.

    Trump is representing me quite well, much better than Congress is doing. 

    Comey was personally conducting an investigation???  Do tell!!  They've been investigating it for nearly a year and still haven't found ANYTHING. 


    inc4t
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    You observed me swimming in a swamp? Do tell!!!

    If you think a year is a long time, I guess you've never been in any legal proceedings.

    As for him "representing you quite well" I don't even know how you can say that with a straight face.



    inc4t
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA, you must have forgotten that the Clinton's already rented out the Lincoln bedroom last time they were there.


    A year is a pretty long time for an investigation to turn up NOTHING.


     



    inc4t
  • inc4tinc4t 124 Pts
    @CYDdharta and @Coveny, I  have to say that I am really enjoying your debate.  You started with facts, and now down to cartoons.  It is really hilarious.  
    It seems to me that there is no proof that Comey had before he got fired, but Trump surely anticipated such a media reaction, and he doesn't care. He will not let media impact his decision making - he will do what he feels is right for a given situation.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    So the Republicans block Obama, and don't block Trump and Gorsuch somehow counts as an accomplishment?!?!
    Reduced illegals... ROFL more people were leaving this country than coming into it before he took office. 30 years of corrupt politicians are killing this country
    Getting bids is an accomplishment? Someone put that on the meme? Wow you are desperate.
    Clinton bombed ISIS, Obama bombed ISIS, Russia bombed ISIS,  Trump bombed ISIS, ISIS is still alive and well. (his promise was have a plan to defeat ISIS in 30 days... he still doesn't have one he's just doing the same thing everyone else has done and expecting different results I think Einstein had something to say about that)
    TPP was dead in Congress, Trump didn't stop it.
    Bring jobs back and economic growth is all OBAMA. Economically speaking he brought this country out of the gutter, and Trump took office and has rode on that momentum. http://time.com/money/4640938/donald-trump-job-creation-announcements-ford-walmart-amazon/
    Oh ya he's gotten rid of regulation, you know like the ones that prevent companies from polluting this country.This counts as an accomplishment to you?
    Coal jobs? Really? Are you serious? He's gonna bring back blockbuster too.
    Pipelines are an accomplishment? They are ALREADY leaking. http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/10/investing/dakota-access-pipeline-oil-spill/
    Manufacturing. pfft

    Now let's talk about the 60 or so promises he didn't keep.
    https://thinkprogress.org/trump-broke-64-promises-in-his-first-month-in-office-5470f2c337e1
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  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @inc4t you got one thing right he doesn't care.
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  • agsragsr 456 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Coveny, to inc4t point, the fact that he doesn't care is a good thing. He is not a politician and not bound by the same corrupt principles as the rest of Washington DC.  He can make a difference and is confident in his decisions.
    I agree that perception is horrible of him firing Comey, resulting in media Frenzy. I disagree that Comey had proof.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @inc4t I agree with your assessment.  It's hard add anything new that's relevant, considering the investigations have turned up nothing. 
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @agsr he has a history of cheating people in his own best interest. As president he has continued this trend and uses his presidency to increase his personal fortune. 

    Trump doesn't care... about anyone but himself. http://www.eclectablog.com/2015/08/donald-trump-to-detroit-autoworkers-you-make-too-much-money.html

    Everyone keeps saying there is no "proof" based on people outside of the investigation. Hey I get it, he's got you guys fooled and guys are ok with this country getting screwed over so long as it's not a black guy. There is no reason to fire Comey... what so ever, but that doesn't phase you. ok sure.
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  • agsragsr 456 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Coveny, I would just counter with the following to keep this debate on topic.
    1) the subject of debate is if there is proof. There is no proof.  All the evidence we have and yoyr syggestions of his personal history while maybe relevant are not proof.
    2) at the same time, there is no proof that Trump is innocent. It is fair in such situations to use guilty until proven innocent construct. I find many of your sources compelling to some degree.
    3) perception is not good for Trump firing Comey in the midst of investigation, but that in itself is not proof.

    anything else is just a personal opinion.  If this debate would have been "do you believe..." than it wouldn't be a debate but a statement of an opinion. That's my 2 cents.
    melanielust
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @agsr I would counter that the scope of the debate is "FBI Director James Comey proof that Trump is corrupt?" not do we have legal proof that Trump is corrupt. This topic is supposed to be about peoples thoughts on the idea of firing someone who is investigating you, and what that implies. That has been completely skipped to discuss his legal guilt or innocence. I wanted to get a debate about the implications of firing someone investigating you. I would have liked some discussion about how in the old days that would have been enough "proof" to convict, but today it's not because we require a higher burden of proof in our court systems. I wanted to know people's thoughts on if that was more fair and more just, or was the older system more accurate. This debate was supposed to BE about personal opinion, but I like debating so I just went with it, however that's not the topic. The key sentence of the post that indicates that this is about opinions rather than facts is "What are your thoughts on the subject?". And really I created this, why are you lecturing me on what the topic of the debate is suppose to be? If it drifts it's not that a huge deal this is a causal debating forum so I'm fine following where the discussion leads... 
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  • agsragsr 456 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Coveny, that is fair.   Thanks for clarifying.   If that's  the topic then I can totally see how suspicious it looks.  I still hold my opinion that he is not guilty, but it's a matter of personal opinion like religion debate. I can understand how suspicious it looks firing someone who investigates you, but that cannot be the sole basis of guilt.
    i also think that you are bringing up another interesting debate topic about the court system.  I also think that our legal system is overly complex, but at the same time KGB-like court system is even worse.  That would make an interesting debate in itself.
    Didnt mean to sound like I was lecturing, sorry about that.
     
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @agsr no worries. Yes what you were just talking about was more where I wanted to discuss with this thread, but to be fair I didn't go into enough detail about what I was looking for, so it turned into something else.

    It's more interesting to me to discuss how far does "beyond a reasonable doubt" go? It's pretty vague IMO. You mention guilt solely on firing him, but there have been people hug by mobs for less I believe. We have a democracy does that mean that if most people believe someone is guilty that removes reasonable doubt? Or do we have to take into account fallacies and bias and say even though most believe a person is guilty that still isn't enough. That seems almost like treating them like children and saying that what they believe isn't good enough. And if so how do we decide who's judgement isn't ignored or distorted by fallacies and bias? 
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  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny You're a bit late, that story has already been flatly debunked.

    "The president and the foreign minister reviewed a range of common threats to our two countries, including threats to civil aviation," McMaster said. "At no time, at no time, were intelligence sources or methods discussed, and the president did not disclose any military operations that were not already publicly known."

    McMaster's statement echoed earlier denials issued by two other administration officials who attended the meeting."This story is false. The president only discussed the common threats that both countries faced," said Dina Powell, deputy national security adviser for strategy. 
    In addition, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Trump and Lavrov "did not discuss sources, methods or military operations."

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/15/white-house-denies-report-trump-revealed-classified-info-about-isis-to-russians.html


    At least we can agree that investigations are unwarranted.



    agsr
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta now it makes more sense you watch faux news. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/fox/

    We don't agree, investigations are warranted.

    The white house has a LONG history lying to cover itself. http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-presidential-lies-2017-story.html
    WhyTrump
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny Of course leftwing sources are going to try to taint Fox News, but it's a lot closer to the center then, say, Washington Post.  Regardless, I posted QUOTES.  The source is entirely immaterial.



    aarongagsr
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 139 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @CYDdharta, I still feel it's really suspicious. People deserve a fair investigation.
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @WhyTrump A LOT of things Obama did were VERY suspicious, much moreso than anything the Trump administration has done to date.  How about we have an independent investigation into Trump/Russia ties and an independent investigation into Obama's assassinating US citizens abroad, and an independent investigation into Fast and Furious, and an independent investigation into the IRS scandal, and an independent investigation into Obama's misuse of intelligence agencies, and an independent investigation into the Iran sanctions deal etc. etc.
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 139 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @CYDdharta, Obama never fired head of FBI who investigated him.  Wouldn't you want to know if Trump violated our trust ?
    Coveny
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @WhyTrump Trump never assassinated anyone, much less a US citizen.  Don't you think that's a bigger issue?
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta and I refitted the quote as not credible as well and the source being not creditable. You have an issue with daily kos, it's no different than faux news. (just in the opposite direction) 

    I don't think Sharyl Attkisson counts as an unbiased source. I think a better source on media bias is https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/




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  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny ; Does this make you feel better?;

    LT. GEN. H.R. McMASTER, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I have a brief statement for the record. There is nothing that the president takes more seriously than the security of the American people. The story that came out tonight as reported is false. The president and the foreign minister reviewed a range of common threats to our two countries, including threats to civil aviation.

    At no time, at no time, where intelligent sources or methods discussed. And the president did not disclose any military operations that were not already publicly known. Two other senior officials who were present, including the Secretary of the State, remember the meeting the same way and have said so. Their on the record accounts should outweigh anonymous sources. I was in the room. It didn't happen.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/05/15/mcmaster_the_story_that_came_out_tonight_as_reported_is_false.html


    Now it your turn to find a credible source for your daily kos quote.


    As far as Sharyl Attkisson goes, she's one of the few real investigative reporters out there.  She's about as unbiased as you're likely to find.  You may like mediabiasfactcheck more, but I wouldn't trust any organization that tries to label wikileaks as having a right bias.




  • @CYDdharta, do you feel that latest Kushner discovery will lead to more ties to Trump firing Comey amd Trump Russsia inappropriate ties?
  • LogicLogic 213 Pts
    If there was no evidence why did trump fire him?   If trump had something to hide he would fire him in my opinion which he did.
    Coveny
  • agsragsr 456 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Logic, that is a possible explanation but not necessarily prove.  I agree though that Kushner son in law drama is not looking too good right now.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • LogicLogic 213 Pts
    @agsr There is literally no reason to have fired him if trump had nothing to hide.   But CYD won the cartoon war tbh. 
  • agsragsr 456 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Now that we heard Comey testimony I wanted to circle back on this debate.  I agree with @CYDdharta...still no proof
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    edited June 11
    One part has proof. Comey's testimony was that the Russians affected our election. http://www.nbcnews.com/video/comey-russia-interfered-in-election-there-s-no-fuzz-on-that-962957891923 ;

    Russians were attempting to help Trump. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

    Trump as admitted that the russian investigation was on his mind when he fired Comey - http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-reveals-he-asked-comey-whether-he-was-under-investigation-n757821

    There are the also the issues Manafort -  with https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/us/politics/paul-manafort-ukraine-donald-trump.html

    And Flynn - http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/18/politics/mike-flynn-donald-trump/index.html

    So there is proof that Russia helped to get Trump elected, that people near Trump are working with Russia, and that Trump fired Comey at least partially because he was investigating those connections. The only thing left to prove is if Trump knew about Russia interfering or not. There is turning out to be less and less wiggle room for Don the con in this situation from the time this debate was originally posted, and it keeps looking worse and worse for him.


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  • Someone once said.
    Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    I personally wouldn't trust any politician, or high ranking official.
    And anything they say, should be taken with a pinch of salt.
    Coveny
  • @Fredsnephew, it is fair for you not to trust politicians, but that is not proof..
  • @Fredsnephew, it is fair for you not to trust politicians, but that is not proof..

    What I'm saying is.
    James Comey is no more trustworthy than Donald Trump.
    Therefore you will not come by honesty and the proof you're looking for very easily.
    islander507
  • agsragsr 456 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Fredsnephew, that I agree with
    Live Long and Prosper
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 139 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Trump was caught in multiple lies, where Comey is a much more respectful person
    comey_testify
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • Trump has a great track record when it comes to honesty. It has to come up suspicious that Comey rote down his career his conversations with TrP after every meeting.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    Trump has a great track record when it comes to honesty. 
    Please tell this is sarcasm? It should be sarcasm, but it doesn't sound it is from the rest of the sentence...
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    Back to the OP, just the opposite is true.  With all these investigations turning up nothing, the Trump administration is turning out to be one of the best vetted and least corrupt administrations in at least recent history.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny ; The "conflicts of interest" that have been posted by your list of left-wing sites have been investigated.  They have yet to turn up anything.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    edited June 20
    @Coveny I'll believe it when an investigation uncovers something substantial

    :D  When did E.J. Dionne switch from being and uber-leftist?
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta ah got, that's code for never. Continue to scream against the wind...
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny In all likelihood you are correct, these investigations appear to be a complete waste of time that will never uncover anything worth prosecuting Trump over.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta you are correct, you will never change your mind even if he is convicted, or leaves right before he gets impeached.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    edited June 20
    @Coveny ...and you, sir, have already convicted him in your mind, even though there is no evidence he committed a crime.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta... I see plenty of evidence to impeach him by his own words, no further "investigation" needed. 

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-robert-b-reich-a-roadmap-to-the-end-of-trump-s-presidency-20170516-story.html
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    Robert Reich?!?  :D :D :D Clinton's labor secretary and economic advisor to Obama, that Robert Reich?!?  :D :D :D

    Sean Hannitysays there's no evidence of collusion; Oh wait, it isn't Hannity saying it, its a bunch of Democrats saying it;

    http://www.hannity.com/articles/election-493995/watch-heres-a-montage-of-democrats-15852024/

  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta I'm talking about obstruction of justice has been proven not collusion with Russia. You have refuted the earlier argument, not the current one... 
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny Obstruction of justice of what???  An investigation that never should have been initiated in the first place???  This is pure partisan politics, there was never a basis for the investigation.  It was invented by the opposition.  You must see the danger, because it won't stop here.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta I see the danger of a president obstructing justices... yes ... yes I do. No one should be above the law.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny Really?!?  You actually feel that way?!?

  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta which part of that is shocking to you? (I even numbered them to make it easier)

    1 Obstructing justice is against the law and bad
    2 The president of the US shouldn't obstruct justice
    3 The president is not about the law
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny ...so you believe Obama should be in court for obstructing the House investigation of Fast and Furious, among other things...
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta red herring much? What does Obama have to do with any of this? AND you pick the black president? Why not bring up the Bushes, or Bill, or even Reagan? Not that it's germane to this discussion but the list of politicians I want to see in jail is NOT a short one...
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    edited June 21
    @Coveny LOL; call red herring and bring up Obama's race :D :D :D  You're always good for a laugh.

    Obama was the one who politicized the DOJ and sent them after a political rival over a Russian collusion case they couldn't even make successfully to a FISA judge, with a 99.97% success rate.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta ok first off who cares what Obama did, that's NOT what we are discussing... so it's a red herring. Secondly for DECADES presidents have been obstructing justice but you picked Obama as your example? Racist much? It becomes more and more clear why your a Trumpster. 
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny ; Obama sicked the DOJ on Trump over false and ridiculous claims of collusion with Russia; that's exactly what we're talking about.  Second, i couldn't give a rat's about Obama's race, he was just a really crappy leftist president.  Oh yeah, to the radical leftists that somehow makes me a racist.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta I get you don't like the black guy, now tell me about the other presidents that obstructed justice. 
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny I get that you're a racist, you're obsessed with the color of Obama's skin, but what other president was charged solely with obstructing justice?
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta Obama wasn't charged solely with obstructing justice, Obama wasn't charged at all. But I can see how a racist would have trouble looking past the color of his skin to Clinton  who actually was charged with obstructing justice. Or maybe if you didn't want to go that far back you could look at Bush and lewis. (who was convicted) Now it wasn't Bush directly BUT did commute Lewis's sentence, and that sure seems like Lewis took the fall for Bush to me. Or maybe you prefer the other Bush? Might want to look into the car bombing of Chilean Foreign Minister Orlando Letelier on that count. Reagan had what 3 or 4 of his people convicted of obstruction of justice? And yet you CHOSE the black guy, and can't seem to think of anyone else... but the black guy. No you aren't racist at ALL...
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    edited June 22
    @Coveny Thank you for recognizing and admitting that I'm not at all racist, now the next step is to admit that you are a racist. 

    Trump wasn't charged with obstruction, Reagan wasn't charged with obstruction, neither Bush was charged with obstruction.  In fact, the only person you named who was charged with obstruction was Slick Willie, and he was also charged and found guilty of perjury.  Leftists still say his impeachment was illegitimate and he was acquitted in Congress of all charges.  I can't compare Trump to Slick Willie because Slick Willie actually was guilty.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta was Obama charged with obstruction? Did I miss that? No... no he wasn't was he, but he's the one YOU chose to use... you know the black guy. Almost like you have a problem with black people, and you care more about making Obama look bad than you do about the facts that Trump is guilt. Your whole mentality makes a lot more sense now.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny Again with the race.  I guess that's why people like you are called racists.

    It's early; Obama's minions still hold too many positions of power in the DOJ, but his influence is waning.

    http://nypost.com/2017/06/20/next-up-a-special-counsel-to-probe-team-obamas-obstruction-of-justice/

  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta the only president you have a problem with is the black one... how is that not about racism? You adamantly stand behind Trump and scream "NO PROOF!!"", but you have already convicted Obama and his "minions". On top of that this is a debate about TRUMP, and you bring up Obama to use as a Relative Privation fallacy. 



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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny Nope, I'm not a racit like you.  I haven't convicted Obama yet, but there is certainly more evidence of illegal activities and Obama's abusing the power of the office than there is for anything Trump has done.  He should certainly should get the same treatment that Trump is getting.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta haha, whatever you need to tell yourself.
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  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    Trump money laundering for the Russians, why does that not surprise me?

    "A former senior official said Mr. Mueller’s investigation was looking at money laundering by Trump associates. The suspicion is that any cooperation with Russian officials would most likely have been in exchange for some kind of financial payoff, and that there would have been an effort to hide the payments, probably by routing them through offshore banking centers." 
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/mueller-trump-special-counsel-investigation.html
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  • SonofasonSonofason 53 Pts
    WhyTrump said:
    @CYDdharta, I disagree.  Of course there is no proof yet, that's the whole point.  We may never find out just how close he got, but no matter what it is wring to fire someone who is investigating you.  Just not right.
    Employers have every right to fire people that suck at their jobs.
  • SonofasonSonofason 53 Pts
    I guess if I begin an investigation into my boss, he'll never be able to fire me.  What a wondrous pile of dung.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    Sonofason said:
    I guess if I begin an investigation into my boss, he'll never be able to fire me.  What a wondrous pile of dung.
    Is your boss the most powerful man in this country who is supposed to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us? Or what you just things worked the same with the president as they did with your manager at quickmart? Speaking of piles of dung...
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  • SonofasonSonofason 53 Pts
    Coveny said:
    Sonofason said:
    I guess if I begin an investigation into my boss, he'll never be able to fire me.  What a wondrous pile of dung.
    Is your boss the most powerful man in this country who is supposed to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us? Or what you just things worked the same with the president as they did with your manager at quickmart? Speaking of piles of dung...
    Whether or not the President of the United States should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us is a very subjective matter of opinion.  Perhaps you think it's okay for a president to intimidate his staff into giving him BJ's, but it's not okay for a president to talk trash about women, or to mention what he'd like to do with women.  It's purely subjective.  I think it's possible that a guy who likes to intimidate girls in order to get BJ's can run the country well enough.  I think a guy who'd like to grab a girl by the butt just might be able to run a country too.  Look, I am not the president.  I am not running to be the president, and so I'm going to have to lower my standards and choose someone less perfect than I.  Until I decide to run myself, I'm going to have to make the best choice I can given the very bad choices I have.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @Sonofason The president of the united states should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, this is not a matter an opinion, or subjective. 

    I don’t think it’s acceptable for the President to do any of that stuff, and more, but I will agree that what the standard is, is subjective.

    You may be willing to take whatever is given, that doesn’t mean the rest of us have to. Some of us would like to see this country move to a better place in education, innovation, medicine, caring, compassion, and a whole host of other things we keep falling further and further behind in. We’d also like to see the increase in corruption, oligarchy, wealth inequality, military industrial complex, and a whole host of other things stop, and decline.
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  • SonofasonSonofason 53 Pts
    Coveny said:
    @Sonofason The president of the united states should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, this is not a matter an opinion, or subjective. 

    I don’t think it’s acceptable for the President to do any of that stuff, and more, but I will agree that what the standard is, is subjective.

    You may be willing to take whatever is given, that doesn’t mean the rest of us have to. Some of us would like to see this country move to a better place in education, innovation, medicine, caring, compassion, and a whole host of other things we keep falling further and further behind in. We’d also like to see the increase in corruption, oligarchy, wealth inequality, military industrial complex, and a whole host of other things stop, and decline.
    Then it seems to me you need a true Christian as your leader, someone like Christ.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    Sonofason said:
    Coveny said:
    @Sonofason The president of the united states should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, this is not a matter an opinion, or subjective. 

    I don’t think it’s acceptable for the President to do any of that stuff, and more, but I will agree that what the standard is, is subjective.

    You may be willing to take whatever is given, that doesn’t mean the rest of us have to. Some of us would like to see this country move to a better place in education, innovation, medicine, caring, compassion, and a whole host of other things we keep falling further and further behind in. We’d also like to see the increase in corruption, oligarchy, wealth inequality, military industrial complex, and a whole host of other things stop, and decline.
    Then it seems to me you need a true Christian as your leader, someone like Christ.
    It seems to me you can't talk about a topic without getting religious because that's all you understand.
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  • SonofasonSonofason 53 Pts
    Coveny said:
    Sonofason said:
    Coveny said:
    @Sonofason The president of the united states should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, this is not a matter an opinion, or subjective. 

    I don’t think it’s acceptable for the President to do any of that stuff, and more, but I will agree that what the standard is, is subjective.

    You may be willing to take whatever is given, that doesn’t mean the rest of us have to. Some of us would like to see this country move to a better place in education, innovation, medicine, caring, compassion, and a whole host of other things we keep falling further and further behind in. We’d also like to see the increase in corruption, oligarchy, wealth inequality, military industrial complex, and a whole host of other things stop, and decline.
    Then it seems to me you need a true Christian as your leader, someone like Christ.
    It seems to me you can't talk about a topic without getting religious because that's all you understand.
    Thanks for noticing that I put God first, but I assure you I understand a great deal more than you seem willing to acknowledge at the present time.  Maybe in time you will give some credit, where credit is due.  Or perhaps you won't.  Considering your statement here, I will assume the latter, but perhaps I might be pleasantly surprised.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    Coveny said:
    Sonofason said:
    I guess if I begin an investigation into my boss, he'll never be able to fire me.  What a wondrous pile of dung.
    Is your boss the most powerful man in this country who is supposed to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us? Or what you just things worked the same with the president as they did with your manager at quickmart? Speaking of piles of dung...
       It's funny that you'd suddenly start worrying about that now;

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/12/obama-fires-americorps-inspector-general-scandal.html

  • SonofasonSonofason 53 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Coveny said:
    Sonofason said:
    I guess if I begin an investigation into my boss, he'll never be able to fire me.  What a wondrous pile of dung.
    Is your boss the most powerful man in this country who is supposed to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us? Or what you just things worked the same with the president as they did with your manager at quickmart? Speaking of piles of dung...
       It's funny that you'd suddenly start worrying about that now;

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/12/obama-fires-americorps-inspector-general-scandal.html

    I knew Comey should have been fired the moment I heard his excuses for not inditing Hilary Clinton for her crimes.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @Sonofason I give credit where credit is due, and yahweh deserves the same credit Santa Clause does. Maybe in time you will give some credit, where credit is due.  Or perhaps you won't.  Considering your statement here, I will assume the latter, but perhaps I might be pleasantly surprised.
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  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta and you are still talking about the black guy rather than debating the topic at hand. You seem to think he's the only one who's done anything bad, and you also seem to think I'm defending him. Neither of which is true. I have an issue with DECADES of presidents, you only have a problem with the black one, they have a word for that...
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny ...and you're still talking about race, I guess that's just what racists do.  As for "the topic at hand", in case you haven't been paying attention, that fell apart weeks ago during Comey's testimony to Congress, and in the things that have come to light subsequently.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta "things that have come to light subsequently" you mean like the new team investigating Trump for obstruction of justice? Comey's testimony didn't clear Trump, somehow it seems like both sides saw Comey's testimony as the smoking gun supporting their case. Personally I think it was pretty vague.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny I mean like Comey sharing classified information to be disseminated to the press.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta you misspelled Trump.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny You aren't keeping up with current events.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta same broken record.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    edited July 11
    @Coveny You're still uninformed, I see.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta how would you know in that echo chamber?
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  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    edited July 11
    @Coveny Yeah, the Hill, not ;

    President Trump revealed highly classified intelligence information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador while meeting with them last week at the White House, The Washington Post reported Monday.


    Current and former U.S. officials told the Post that Trump relayed information from a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta hackers are everywhere! 





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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny So are people who don't read the articles they post;

    President Trump revealed highly classified intelligence information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador while meeting with them last week at the White House, The Washington Post reported Monday.

    Current and former U.S. officials told the Post that Trump relayed information from a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.





  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta It's still an article from the Hill, I didn't post an article from the washington post. Please try to stay focused...

    I did however notice that you didn't refute your boy Trump leaking classified information, you just started this red herring of he said, she said. Very telling.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    edited July 11
    @Coveny You may as well have posted the WaPo article.  This isn't a Hill story, it's Hill coverage of a WaPo story.

    As for me refuting it, I don't have to, no less than three people who were in the meeting have already done that

    The story that came out tonight as reported is false. The president and the foreign minister reviewed a range of common threats to our two countries, including threats to civil aviation. At no time, at no time, were intelligence sources or methods discussed. And the president did not disclose any military operations that were not already publicly known. Two other senior officials who were present, including the Secretary of the State, remember the meeting the same way and have said so. Their on the record accounts should outweigh anonymous sources. I was in the room. It didn’t happen.


    Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said, “During President Trump’s meeting with Foreign Minister Lavrov a broad range of subjects were discussed among which were common efforts and threats regarding counter-terrorism. During that exchange the nature of specific threats were discussed, but they did not discuss sources, methods, or military operations.”

    Dina Powell, deputy national security advisor for strategy, was also in the meeting. She said, “This story is false. The president only discussed the common threats that both countries faced.”
    http://thefederalist.com/2017/05/16/tips-for-reading-washington-post-stories-about-trump-based-on-anonymous-leaks/

  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta it's cool how the post hacked the Hill and put an article on their site.

    As far as the leak. He didn't say anything about laptop bombs are then got on twitter and told the world he could say whatever he wanted to say? (I could go find those tweets if you like)
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny What are you going on about?
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta the stuff you deny.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny If you have a point, feel free to make it
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta I've made my points. Even did it with the same site you trust. Talked about "current" stuff and you have to ask "what I'm going on about". No real need to continue, but it feels like you are playing "I get the last word in".
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny Oh, that's it?!?  I thought you had something pertinent to add.  As for the Hill, they're hardly an organization I trust.  They're left-wing, but not as far to the left as most in the MSM.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta I see trust when they support your confirmation bias... gotcha.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny When even the opposition has to agree with you...
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta you are the opposition, and your sources agree with me. So I already have that.
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny You aren't even addressing the topic at hand anymore.  What does a discredited story about a meeting between Trump and Lavrov have to do with Comey?  He was already fired when the meeting took place.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta the topic is about Trumps corruption...
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny Vis-à-vis Comey.  Once again; what does a discredited story about a meeting between Trump and Lavrov have to do with Comey?  He was already fired when the meeting took place.
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    @CYDdharta what does giving classified information to the Russians have to do with the Russians fixing the election for him? I guess nothing. hehe
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    @Coveny Since it didn't happen, I guess we'll never know
  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    @Coveny What are you going on about?
    I guess if you don't know about it... it didn't happen.
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  • CovenyCoveny 178 Pts
    haha

    SilverishGoldNova
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  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 204 Pts
    Even senior Obama White House advisors have to admit it;

    The Russia thing is just a big nothing burger

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/28/cnns-van-jones-calls-russia-story-nothing-burger-l/

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