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Who is the biggest terrorist?

Opening Argument

In my opinion, America is the biggest terrorist.  America has invaded the middle east, Stolen it's oil, Droned children in countries like syria, Ripped apart homes [Syria is pretty much just a pile of stone now.]  Invaded Iraq, Raped women and children.  They've committed more war crimes then i can count.  
http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-is-running-the-worlds-largest-terrorist-operation/5339835
http://www.alternet.org/world/america-commits-acts-terrorism-why-so-hard-understand
Also, Noam Chomsky has talked on the topic lots.  
brexitWhyTrumppassedbillCYDdhartakmelkevolution17spandamnorthsouthkoreainc4tagsrmelanielust
  1. Is America the biggest terrorist in the world?

    16 votes
    1. Yes, For sure.
      31.25%
    2. No, Not at all.
      62.50%
    3. Just a little.
        6.25%
    4. An even amount.
        0.00%
«1

Status: Open Debate

Arguments

  • brexitbrexit 22 Pts
    No, they are attempting to fight terrorism. Although, it's based on what people believe is terrorism.
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    @brexit  ISIS was created after america was messing in the middle east. 
    [I don't agree with ISIS though.]
    George_Horse
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 158 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Logic, I am glad we both agree that ISIS is bad, but I can't agree on your view about USA. These are alternative media sources that drive such propoganda. US is trying to help fight terrorist, certainly not create it
    Logic
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • America's influence in the creation of terrorist reactionary organizations has nothing to do with them being terrorists, so no, ISIS are definitely bigger terrorists than the US ever was/is.
    WhyTrumpLogic
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    Lets compare them :
    America- Established it's country on genocide
    ISIS-Spilled A LOT of blood to establish the islamic state.

    America: 68+ wars  in the 18th and 19th century alone . 31 more wars in the 20th century.  6 in the 21st 
    ISIS: Many, MANY battles, But no wars. 

    America: Stealing oil from multiple countries in the middle east.
    ISIS: Hasn't stolen oil from anyone.

    America: Torturing and captives and killing them in cuba secretly.
    ISIS:Primitively beheading people

    Not many differences between them.  
    When america kills,Steals[from],Drones innocent people no one can say a word.  
    But when the middle east fights back, America cries terrorist. 
    It's like this : The hypocrite who cried 'war on terrorism'
    America is the leading terrorist, Look at Noam Chomskys works. 

    George_Horse
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    @WhyTrump Also, i didn't say america created them. Just the influence is the reason in my opinion.
    George_Horse
  • @Logic, wars don't equate to being terrorists.  We didn't "steal" olil.   I agree though that our start with Native Americans is highly questionable 
  • agsragsr 564 PtsPremium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    Premium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    @Logic, your point about Native Americans is interesting. That will make an interesting debate. I just created one.
    in general, I disagree in your labeling of the US as terrorists and stealing oil. US has positive intentions in keeping peace.  These wars cost us billions, and while it maybe an interesting conspiracy theory,  pleasd demonstrate how we are getting our money back on our investment  with that "stolen" oil.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    @agsr They want peace? You do know every single president MUST believe manifest destiny? Peace....
    It's not a conspiracy theory, It's a fact they steal oil.  
    Did you ever read Noam Chomskys work?
    passedbill
  • They went money not peace.
    kmelkevolution17
  • They want money and oil, two us priorities which is a great reason they're being more friendly with countries like oil rich, Saudi Arabia.
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    @CuriousGeorge I think you should read Noam Chomsky's works.
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    Either way, Any patriotic american will be blinded by the propaganda of america 'We are #1'  ... Not really. 
    George_Horse
  • @Logic I'm hardly the stereotypical patriotic American but there are so many flaws in your comparison of America vs ISIS.

    ISIS was established with the PURPOSE of committing genocide. But not just of one or a few groups of people, of ALL groups who conflict with their radical values, including moderate Muslims and other branches of Islam, Jews, Christians, and Western/modern nations. Saying America was built on genocide is also a blatant factual fallacy - I won't deny that the killing of Native Americans certainly should be considered genocide, but most of that occurred well before America was an established nation. The conflicts and relocations etc that occurred afterwards were similarly horrible, but not the basis for any cultural, political, or general identity that has ever/will ever define America.

    Second fallacy: the comparison of something as superficial as a NUMBER of wars/battles in order to explain differences in terrorism. The number of wars and battles has nothing to do with terrorism! Terrorism is about the motivation, goals, and actions, not the statistic. There were so many beneficial wars that America fought in order to defend democracy and prevent the fall of perfectly fine nations. ISIS, on the other hand, has the GOAL of destroying even innocent nations (I won't call the US innocent) with brutal psychological terrorism. That is what they intend. They want to rape, kill, drown, torture, use intimidation tactics, commit genocide, and bring about the apocalypse...while America's actions have influenced this, that in NO WAY justifies the argument that America directly caused this and is therefore a larger terrorist than an organization that has clearly outlined genocidal and terrorist intent, and is currently carrying out those intentions.

    Third fallacy: ISIS is indeed stealing oil. It took me two seconds to look it up and find thousands of articles about their oil smuggling schemes. Take a look: http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/09/09/346844240/how-the-islamic-state-smuggles-oil-to-fund-its-campaign

    Again, I don't whole heartedly defend America, especially since Trump came into power. They have taken oil from Iraq. But the present political imbalance in the Middle East leaves very limited options for economic power and control...so would you rather that oil be in the hands of the United States, or in the hands of ISIS?

    For the record...I can respect Noam Chomsky as an individual but I disagree with almost all of his ideas. The phrase "war on terrorism," for example, is not hypocritical because war and terrorism are different things. War can include acts of terrorism, but they are not synonymous in the slightest.
    agsrLogic
  • By the way @Logic I really appreciate you putting out your perspective - this site has way more conservative views than liberal so it is nice to hear a different opinion, I am sorry if I came off as too passionate or harsh.
    agsr
  • averyaproaveryapro 62 Pts
    I do not believe that the USA is terrorists at all because it seems like they are the ones trying to fight terrorism and the news these days make it seems so sarcastic about what we are doing when we're actually trying to help fight terrorism. I don't agree with @Logic in the part that he pointed out most because we were trying to gain vital top secret information from people in the Middle East to try and get leads to taking down the terrorist groups that are within the Middle East that might not be a big group, but they are trying to find leads on the Taliban. That is why I think that the USA is not the biggest terrorist. 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 313 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    I was going to ask if you were presenting Noam Chomsky's views or Osama bin Laden's, but then there isn't really much difference.  They were fans of each other. 
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    Again, I don't see why everyone here thinks i support IS.  I absolutely hate them.  @CYDdharta Haha, Very funny. [Not really.] Noam chomsky has written books on why the US is the biggest terrorist. And i don't support Osama Bin laden, He killed the innocent people [Eh, just like america did to the natives]  My problem is with the corrupt government.
    @melanielust  I'm not too sure if i'm a liberal. If something is dangerous for the country, I think we should try to prevent it. But Trump's methods, I just don't like.  
    And at this point i have no choice but to agree with you, I really would rather that oil in the hands of america. More than IS at least.
    northsouthkorea
  • northsouthkoreanorthsouthkorea 112 Pts
    edited May 23
    Maybe, the one who killed 22 people and injured 59 as of May 23 in the U.K. After an Ariana Grande concert.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 313 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Logic Of course Noam Chomsky wrote books describing his mistaken belief that the US is the biggest terrorist threat, that's what (real) terrorist sympathizers do.  He was a significant influence on bin Laden, in fact bin Laden was reading one of Chomsky's books shortly before he was killed.  Chomsky lamented the killing of bin Laden.  Chomsky and bin Laden were ideological twins, there is no way to support one and disavow yourself from the other. 
    inc4tagsr
  • inc4tinc4t 152 Pts
    @CYDdharta, yes.  I think Chomsky's ideas are tough to agree with, unless one supports Bin Laden as well.
    But, I would like to further understand @logic points, and happy to hear he is agreeing with   @melanielust about oil better with US than ISIS. 
  • agsragsr 564 PtsPremium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    Premium MemberTechnology Community Moderator
    @CYDdharta, very good point there.  Chomsky's teachings are really along the lines of what you mentioned,
    Live Long and Prosper
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    Okay, @CYDdharta.  It really doesn't work that way, If i wrote a book right now saying america was the biggest terrorist, And gave it to the kindest man on the planet.  Would he bomb the twin towers?
    What about if i gave it to a psychopath?  He would bomb the twin towers.   Bin laden was just crazy, You can't compare him with someone who speaks the truth.
    And one question for everyone who reads this:  Do you support america droning children in syria?  Not even IS has went to those extremes. 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 313 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Logic You can't compare Chomsky to someone who speaks the truth. 
    Even on the rare occasions when Mr. Chomsky is dealing with facts and not with fantasies, he exaggerates by a factor of, plus or minus, four or five. - (Walter Laqueur, The New Republic, March 24, 1982)

    In one of Chomsky's latest articles, as he laments bin Laden's death he states that "80 commandos facing virtually no opposition" were involved in the raid.  The total number of SEALs that were on the ground in bin Laden's compound were 25.  That's one of his newer lies that isn't included in this list of top Chomsky lies

    Here's a question for you Logic, do you support IS's use of children to carry out suicide bombing attacks?

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-child-suicide-bomber-who-9695386
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/horrifying-isis-drone-video-shows-9821413
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4338508/Child-suicide-bomber-caught-Hazard-Chelsea-kit.html
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/worldnews/2426495/failed-suicide-bomber-15-reveals-ruthless-isis-camp-where-brainwashed-kids-are-trained-for-terror-missions/



    agsr
  • LogicLogic 227 Pts
    @CYDdharta 'Rare occasions' That pretty much sums it up. 
    Why do you keep asking if i support IS?!?!  I have said countless times i don't!  Do you support syrian kids being droned for no reason? Answer the question. 
    Last links title 'Brainwashed kids'  And you wonder where the terrorists come from.  
    From what i know: They start by telling them their families have been murdered by americans. [I have seen this in an clip of people interrogating isis members.]
    Then, They twist verses of qur'an. For example 
    At this point they already hate america.  
    Also, You seem like you hate islam alot.  What sources have you learned about islam from?  I urge you to read the qur'an to purge any ignorance on this topic. I also gave a link [i think in another debate]  of verses in the qur'an condemning what isis do.
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