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9/11

Opening Argument

ErfisflatErfisflat 471 PtsPremium Member
If you think Al-Qaeda, armed with 99cent boxcutters directed by a middle aged man on dialysis in a cave halfway around the world outwitted the most advanced military in the world at the height of it's power, say "I'm gullible" below. We need to have a talk.
yolostideMax_Air29SnakesOfferingApplesjoecavalrySilverishGoldNova
  1. Osama Bin Laden is responsible for 9/11

    16 votes
    1. Yes
      43.75%
    2. No
      56.25%
"Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

Status: Open Debate

Arguments

  • yolostideyolostide 57 Pts
    Osama Bin Laden is the indisputable leader of the movement which killed many in 9/11.
    islander507
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 471 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Gullible person number one! You think it's plausible for a man on dialysis to direct the worst attack in history on American soil from a cave fortress half way around the world using only a laptop and satphone. Why? Do you know who "lucky" Larry Silverstein is?
    melanielustGeorge_HorseJoePineapples
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • yolostide said:
    Osama Bin Laden is the indisputable leader of the movement which killed many in 9/11.

    Was.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 471 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Fredsnephew

    No, he wasn't 
    melanielust
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • Might have been, might not have been.
    Definitely not "is". As yolostide proposes.
    There again. There's probably yet another conspiracy at play here!
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 471 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Fredsnephew

    Bin Laden is an agent for the CIA. He is likely still alive somewhere because this is the only proof we have that he died:
    Now that the seal team that "got him" mysteriously died in a helicopter crash.

    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/5/obama-stonewalls-seal-team-6-extortion-17-helicopt/
    1Hacker0SilverishGoldNovam_abusteit
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • 9/11 was 100% an inside job. No other steel frame buildings in history have ever collapsed due to fire. Even if fire could bring down steel, the top of the building should have heated to that point hours before the bottom, as opposed to a collapse at near free fall speed that resembled controlled demolitions more than a typical tower collapse. Also, they should have collapsed within 15 minutes of impact, as all the jet fuel would have burned off by then, and they shouldn't have collapsed after having an hour to cool down. The truth is however, that they never were that hot, as 4 people in the North Tower were able to survive despite being ABOVE the crash site. There is also a picture of a woman waving for help from the hole left by one the planes. If its not hot enough to kill humans instantly, its not hot enough to bring down steel. If you watch the collapse in slow motion, smoke is jetting 50 and 60 feet out of the side of the building 20 and 30 stories below the where the collapse is taking place, while windows are flashing. Not to mention building 7 wasn't even hit by a plane and it too fell in similar manner to controlled demolitions.
    Also, they knew the planes were hijacked more than 30 minutes prior to them hitting the towers, you can check the air traffic control footage for yourself on youtube. Also, Bush was at an elementary school where he had announced his location on national TV days before. Upon hearing there was an attack, common sense says he may be a target. Instead of evacuating himself and the children like you would in a normal emergency, he stayed around for 20 minutes to read "My Pet Goat" to the children. Again footage of this can be found on youtube.
    Prior to Bush taking office, a group called PNAC (Project for a New American Century) arose as a prominent conservative think tank. When the 2000 election came along Bush was their guy. In a 1997 Pamphlet entitled "Rebuilding America's Defences" they acknowledge that many of their goals were unlikely to be achieved "absent some catastrophic event, like a new Pearl Harbor." They get their guy into office and that very year they get their new Pearl Harbor, and with it the Patriot Act, a war in an oil rich country (Bush's dad also went to war in Iraq. The original justification used by the Bush administration for the Iraq invasion was evidence of Sadam Hussien being involved in 9/11. It wasn't until after that was debunked that the attention turned to WMDs), and an excuse to build up a massively oversized and unnecessary war machine.
    Now lets look at some the people involved. Leading up to the attacks, the twin towers were undergoing elevator maintenance (the elevator shafts is where the core columns were in the twin towers, and the core columns are the ones you would strap bombs too in a controlled demolition). For security during this maintenance they hired a company called SecureCom, which also was in charge of security at Dulles International Airport, and United Airlines. It just so happens that right until a year before 9/11, a man named Marvin Bush served on the board of Directors for SecureCom. Most people are more familiar with his Dad George Sr. or his brothers George and Jeb. He just so happened to step down a year before the attacks, right around the time he would want to leave to avoid looking suspicious.
    Next theres Larry Silversteen, the lease holder for the twin towers had updated the insurance policy to cover terrorism only 3 months before 9/11. He then sued for double insurance money claiming that since two separate planes hit, it was two different attacks, allowing him to get double insurance money, but he only rebuilt one tower. He is also on video stating that they had building 7 "pulled." This was stated before the official story came out and the MSM will never mention it.
    Lastly there Osama Bin Laden, the so-called mastermind behind the attacks. Now there not too secretive about this, but they don't announce it either but in the 80's Bin Laden WAS a CIA asset. This is not a theory, they admit this. When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in the late 70's/early 80's the US gave weapons to a bunch of Afghani people to fight the Soviets. They kept a database of the people the armed and they called it "the base" or "Al-Qaeda" in Arabic. Al-Qaeda is not and never was an organized group, its a CIA database. Among the people they armed to fight the Soviets, one of the more prominent was a man named Osama Bin Laden. Well at some point in the late 80's Bin Laden allegedly "went rogue." However, his family continued to trade in America up until the day of 9/11, when they were flown to safety on some of the very few flights that were actually allowed in the immediate aftermath of the attacks.
    Osama himself started training radicals in the desert to attack America. Given that the CIA is known to plant guys, its not only feasible, but extremely likely that Osama Bin Laden never truly went rogue, but that was just part of his cover (although he probably died in the early 2000's because in his videos he goes from looking like an old man to looking like he's in his 30's or 40's out of nowhere). So while Bin Laden may have been part of the attacks, he was merely a pawn of a larger group of people, who held power in the US.  

    SilverishGoldNovaMax_Air29Erfisflatm_abusteit
  • 9/11 was an act off terorism which had been headed by Osama Bin Laden And his organization there. FHere would Ben no reason for this to be an inside job and little factual basis.
    RollTide420ErfisflatSilverishGoldNovam_abusteit
  • @Max_Air29 You made a claim and offered no proof whatsoever. There was plenty of reason, and I stated most of them. Larry Silversteen made money off the attack the neoconservatives were able to push their political agenda as a result, while the Bush family was able to obtain access to an oil rich country as a result in the aftermath.

    What did Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda gain? Bin Laden gained a bad name for his family and the end of his ability to maintain any power over anyone, while Al-Qaeda lost their significance on the world stage, to be overshadowed by ISIS after they were decimated by the US.

    Bush and his guys had far more to gain from 9/11 than anyone in the middle east(except maybe Israel). You failed to address any of the motives and evidence that it was an inside job, and simply stated that there was no evidence or motive. You gave no evidence whatsoever to back up you claim, as the reality is that there is plenty of evidence, and plenty of reason for it, as laid out in my previous post.
    joecavalry
  • @RollTide420 , you have made a great argument for your side on this debate! 

    I will rebuttal your claim that their was money made from this horrible attack. Cost between possible compensation, salaries, rebuilding, responders, economic cost, shopping cost, transportation, medical etc. is extremely high, and would make it very difficult to make a profit out of the absolutely terrifying event. There were long term costs as well which still may be payed and short term effects and costs involved.
    Erfisflat
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • @joecavalry
    Before I rebuttal this, may I start by saying My argument in no way hinges upon this, it is just a side note that is very suspicious. I even consider leaving it out sometimes because not only does my argument not hinge on it, but also because it is the hardest to prove the financial complexity of the situation makes all of the factors hard to consider, and I admit it is one of my weaker arguments. However, again my point in no way hinges on it, and Silversteen is not really the guy I was trying to point the finger to ultimately, he's just a guy who was in on it.

    With that being said, the insurance would have covered these cost of all the buildings had it been a single attack that took both of them down. By claiming it was two, he got the money to rebuild twice. He would have lost no money. Silversteen was the leaseholder, not the owner. All the rebuilding was covered by insurance, and the amount was based the original cost to build the twin towers originally isn't a factor in, as it is a sunk cost. The cost of rebuilding one tower, when adjusted for inflation. Should come out less than the original two. And by saying it was two separate attacks he got the money for all of it, twice.

    Erfisflat
  • 1Hacker01Hacker0 87 Pts
    edited August 9
    @Erfisflat I'm not jumping to any conclusions but now that I think about it, that picture does look photo shopped.
    Erfisflat
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 461 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    I agree with @1Hacker0, that picture is pretty clearly photoshopped. 
    1Hacker0
    "Yes I seriously said that. Yes I think mountains are curvature"
    "Refusal to provide evidence of my claim or address an opposition's argument against my claim means I'm a liar? You sure you want to take that position? ROFL"
    "I quit coming here because I don't understand the simplest concepts."
    "I couldn't address your arguments so I insulted you"
    "Rahu doesn't exist because Erfisflat said black holes don't exist"

    Learn to argue you two rofl

    http://bestdealwins.com/profile/SilverishGoldNova
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 461 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    It literaly looks like they just took the original picture and used photoshop to add blood
    George_Horse
    "Yes I seriously said that. Yes I think mountains are curvature"
    "Refusal to provide evidence of my claim or address an opposition's argument against my claim means I'm a liar? You sure you want to take that position? ROFL"
    "I quit coming here because I don't understand the simplest concepts."
    "I couldn't address your arguments so I insulted you"
    "Rahu doesn't exist because Erfisflat said black holes don't exist"

    Learn to argue you two rofl

    http://bestdealwins.com/profile/SilverishGoldNova
  • Bin Laden denied knowledge of the attacks and execution of them. He sounds innocent. Bush administration are cold-hearted bastards for lying about the air being clean.
    Erfisflat
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 461 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    He was warned America was under attack and instead of evacuating, he sat there reading "my pet goat". Even then, it is impossible for a steel frame building to collapse because of a fire, and if it could have it should have happened within 15 minutes, not after an hour.  Not to mention building 7 wasn't even hit by a plane and it also fell. It is likely that we are simply talking about controlled demolition, that was exaggerated so that way the Bush administration could invade Iraq. After all, that was the original justification. 
    "Yes I seriously said that. Yes I think mountains are curvature"
    "Refusal to provide evidence of my claim or address an opposition's argument against my claim means I'm a liar? You sure you want to take that position? ROFL"
    "I quit coming here because I don't understand the simplest concepts."
    "I couldn't address your arguments so I insulted you"
    "Rahu doesn't exist because Erfisflat said black holes don't exist"

    Learn to argue you two rofl

    http://bestdealwins.com/profile/SilverishGoldNova
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 263 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Bin Laden admitted he was responsible for planning and executing 9/11.  He sounds pretty guilty.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 471 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • The reason why 9/11 was executed by Bush is that the U.S. Government could have a reason to invade Iraq and Afghanistan in order to take over the natural resources of the middle east and ship it back to the U.S. 

    Here is the irrefutable proof : https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMIZ1&f=M

    The oil imports were very low prior to 9/11 but skyrocketed right after.

    Here is a question for the idiots who think 9/11 was not an inside job. Osama bin Laden was a pakistani living in the U.S., Can somebody tell me why the US did not invade those two countries that committed the terrorist attack but went for Iraq and Afghanistan instead?
    SilverishGoldNova
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 471 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Where are those WMD's Bush?
    "Don't just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything." George Carlin 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

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