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Opinion | Is Putin Getting What He Wanted With Trump? New York Times

Opening Argument

agsragsr 601 Pts
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/10/opinion/sunday/is-putin-getting-what-he-wanted-with-trump.html

New York Times

In the wake of Comey's testimony, they weren't quite throwing back vodka shots in the Kremlin.
therepdropout
  1. Is Putin Getting What He Wanted With Trump?

    6 votes
    1. Yep
      16.67%
    2. Nope
      83.33%
Live Long and Prosper

Status: Open Debate


Arguments

  • Even Putin is disappointed with his puppet :)
    therep
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • thereptherep 56 Pts
    Yes, he is getting what he wants. It's all a master plan.
  • The allegations of Putin and Russia collusion are just fueled by media and the ties don't really exist. If there was a master plan by Putin to distract us from real agenda with all that crazy noise then it maybe working
    CYDdhartadropout
  • dropoutdropout 37 Pts
    Thought he would, didn't.
  • Putin is certainly getting what he wanted, but not from Trump.  Ironically, he's getting it from the Democrats.  All Putin wanted was to sow the seeds of dissension, and paralyze our society and our government.  The whole notion that Putin actually plotted to get Trump elected is ludicrous.  To start with, Putin would have had to have had a better idea of what the electorate was going to do than EVERY pollster in the US.  Up until about 2 days before the election EVERY pollster reporting that the election was going to be a blowout for Hillary.  And what would they have been getting in Trump?  Trump said he wanted to try to work with Putin, but by all accounts, Trump was a political maverick unconstrained by conventional political wisdom.  Hillary, on the other hand, was quite predictable.  She had extensive ties to Russia and Putin both as Secretary of State and through the Clinton Foundation.  Putin already knew he could work with Hillary.
    aarongCuriousGeorgeagsr
  • @CYDdharta, great point.  Not sure if Putin counted on that effect or not, but Dems are certainly giving him what he wants
  • Putin conspiring with Trump in influencing American election is a great plot for a Hollywood production.  Great conspiracy theory, but not fact based.
    the media has done its predictable job, and so did democrats to @CYDdharta point.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • @CYDdharta, I disagree. There is sufficient suspicion for obstruction of justice probe.  
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • @ale5 Obstruction of justice of what?  So far, no one can provide evidence of a crime to be obstructed.  No one has and proof of any collusion.  Feinstein, Waters, Schiff, Manchin, Clapper, and now Comey and Sessions, all people with intimate knowledge of pertinent investigations, have all said there is no evidence of a Trump-Russia conspiracy. 
  • @CYDdharta, no point of arguing now..let it play out. There was certainly sufficient information to lead to the probe and enough not to classify it as baseless.  If probe doesn't find anything then fine...
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • @ale5 ; I disagree.  There was never anything but fictitious "evidence".  There wasn't even enough evidence to satisfy a FISA judge with their legendarily high approval rate of 99.97%.  If Mueller would limit the probe to the Trump-Russia conspiracy theory, that would be one thing; but Mueller is hiring partisan Democrats to conduct the investigation.  It's already turning into an open-ended fishing expedition.  Nothing is being found, but a lot of rumors and innuendo, which so far has all been proven false, is being leaked to the press.  It's McCarthysque, and everyone should want it stopped before they become the next victim.
  • @CYDdharta, I agree with you.  Lots of smoke that just divides our country and prevents Trump from focusing on real issues.  
  • @CYDdharta, I am for justice system playing out and let the probe decide. Your argument wheather nothing has been found so far are great arguments for why he shouldn't be impeached (yet), as of course he is innocent until proven guilty.  That is not a definitive argument of why the probe cannot be instantiontiated.  If probe completes and doesn't find anything then it will be a relief for him and the country. If the probe finds he obstructed justice then it is better for us to know now.
    As far as Putin is concerned, I am not even sure how much of it is calculated by him or just random stuff.  I wouldn't be surprised if he predicted this specific situation we are in now, but can't be sure

    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • edited June 16
    @ale5 I have a few problems with it;

    A ) The lead on the investigation, Mueller, should recuse himself.  He has very longstanding and very deep ties to someone essential to the case.  The public cannot be as sure as it needs to be of his objectivity.  Additionally, his hiring decisions are questionable.  Most of the people he brought into the investigation have donated to Hillary and Obama, but not a single one of them gave anything to Trump or the GOP.

    B ) The investigation is already deviating from it's mission.  Between this and the partisan staffing decisions, it doesn't seem as if the purpose of this special counsel is to evaluate the voracity of claims of Trump-Russia collusion so much as it is to keep investigating until they can get Trump or someone close to him on something, anything.  Considering all the leaks, including from the special counsel itself, it's hard to argue this is not the case.

    C ) This is all a huge distraction that keeps Trump and his administration from concentrating on the things he was elected to do while also denying him from attracting the talent they should be able to for some of the nation's highest unelected offices.
    love2debate
  • @CYDdharta, I agree with your points. Especially, point C.  Big distraction.
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