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Evolution?

The evidence for evolution is literally so rife and paints a more rational picture of our origin than god. Fossils like tiktalik and archaeopteryx and taung child fossil and lucy and neanderthal fossil, pseudogenes like w3nta which gives us tails, atavisms like the lizard snake or the ape human , homologies we have similar morphologies to apes and bats, humans, cats and whales all have the same bone structure but different function in the hand except longer and thicker or smaller and narrower bones but the same structure or layout proving we are all connected by a common ancestors , comparative embroyology proves we all have a common ancestor, comparative DNA like being 98% similar with apes and vestigial features like the human coccyx, wisdom teeth and the harmful appendix. This is a brief list and does not include other lines of evidence like biogeography. 

If you deny evolution, why do you deby it despite all the evidence?

If you accept evolution, how do you fit the fact that humans evolved from a common ancestor with apes over millions of years with the story that the first guy was created from mud in heaven in one day and that the first woman was created from his rib on the same day before apes and other animals were created.
joecavalrypassedbilldropoutErfisflatrandalaarongmelanielustnatbaronsmelefEvidenceand 2 others.
«1345

Comments

  • I believe in god and evolution.

    Scientits have discovered fossils which theoretically prove evolution exists. These fossils come from different times, but the same species. They depict the species evolving through time. I also believe that god had made everything including these fossils. If I were put on the spot, I would have to say I believe in Adam and Eve more than the theory of evolution do to faith and overall evidence.
    passedbilluzairmahmud
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • I believe in Adam and Eve. It seems to have the most evidence of occurring and is in line with my faith.
  • Arguments like these are tricky because it almost solely depends on whether or not you are religious. If you are religious you are far more likely to believe in creation, and very little can be done to convince someone otherwise. If you aren't religious, and believe in evolution, it is much the same story.
  • PowerPikachu21PowerPikachu21 101 Pts
    edited June 12
    @melanielust I might be able to be persuaded if your arguments for Creation are good enough (which would be challenging, since evidence for a God, let alone Creation, is lacking). Also, is there evidence that Adam and Eve existed, let alone made from mud and someone's ribs?
    dropoutmelanielustsensessions
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    There is no more practical evidence for evolution than there is for God. Appeals to authority/popular consensus. Even in a lab, with some of the so called smartest guys on the planet have never produced macroevolution results. This is with help. There are literally thousands of transitional skeletons missing between ape and man. 
    melanielustEvidenceWolfgang666

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @Erfisflat That picture has no information, really. It just assumes it's correct in saying "Earth is flat". We had a Flat Earther in debate.org as well, though he never used pictures like that, and used actual evidence to support his conclusion.
    m_abusteit
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Erfisflat That picture has no information, really. It just assumes it's correct in saying "Earth is flat". We had a Flat Earther in debate.org as well, though he never used pictures like that, and used actual evidence to support his conclusion.
    I think he did use pictures, in our debate, I showed you how Disney made most of the images of earth and pluto, mercury, etc. You know, the number one reason I get for people believing the earth is a spinning ball is "pictures from space"? Have you read the debate here called the earth is flat?

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    edited June 12 Premium Member
    I spent two years on that forum topic "ask a flat earther" I've only been here a few weeks bruh. @PowerPikachu21

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    edited June 12 Premium Member

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • randalrandal 59 Pts
    @Erfisflat , please tone down your arguments. I agree, Earth is indeed flat. The theories that Scientitst are proposing can't be accurate. Also, how would there be hovering water? 
    melanielustm_abusteitErfisflatWolfgang666
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @randal
    How exactly should I "tone down" my arguments? I haven't insulted anyone. I'm glad you've figured out the shape of the earth. What is hovering water though? 
    FlashPoint

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @PowerPikachu21
    I get what you're saying. I don't believe in creation, never have. Sometimes I play devil's advocate so often that people don't know what my opinion really is
  • For the people claiming that there isway more evidence for adam and eve than evolution, where is the evidence? I can make as many claims as I want. They all fail without evidence.

    For those who claim that i am appealing to authority, please elaborate on how i am doing so? I provided you with fossils you can look up for yourself. For the pseudogenes and vestigials, you can look up the examples i provided and they will be confirmed from multiple different sources. 

    For this one flat earther in this thread, do you actually beleive the earth is flat? Lol. Ok how do you explain, ships seeming to sink the horizon, how do you explain day and night. If the earth is flat shouldnt the light hit all of it at once? How do you explain that during a lunar eclipse, the shadow that is casted on the moon is round? If the earth is flat shouldnt it be a horizontal line casted on the moon?  How do you explain the countless images of the round earth taken by NASA, ISS and russian space agencies.

    FlashPoint
  • For the flat earther, where in the bible does it say the world is flat?
    sensessionsmelanielust
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    For the people claiming that there isway more evidence for adam and eve than evolution, where is the evidence? I can make as many claims as I want. They all fail without evidence.

    For those who claim that i am appealing to authority, please elaborate on how i am doing so? I provided you with fossils you can look up for yourself. For the pseudogenes and vestigials, you can look up the examples i provided and they will be confirmed from multiple different sources. 

    For this one flat earther in this thread, do you actually beleive the earth is flat? Lol. Ok how do you explain, ships seeming to sink the horizon, how do you explain day and night. If the earth is flat shouldnt the light hit all of it at once? How do you explain that during a lunar eclipse, the shadow that is casted on the moon is round? If the earth is flat shouldnt it be a horizontal line casted on the moon?  How do you explain the countless images of the round earth taken by NASA, ISS and russian space agencies.

    All refuted here.
    http://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/4941#Comment_4941

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    edited June 13 Premium Member
    @m_abusteit
    Oh and for future references, please tag the user you are speaking to with @ to avoid talking to yourself. It helps conversations to flow. As far as evolution, one line of question. 

    When the first living thing developed a sex organ, how did it procreate? Was the male genitalia creature, which is supposed to be a mutation, coupled by a nearby female genitalia bearing creature? Since this type of mutation has never been observed, do you still consider this science? Or will you admit the entire theory of evolution is pseudoscience? 

    sensessions

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @erfislfat , before I began my argument I would like to mention that I respect and understand your arguments.

    I begin my argument by saying that Evolution is in fact true.

    The process of evolution is at this time almost scientifically proven with over whelming evidence including physical evidence such as fossils of animals throughout time depicting the process of evolution which is the core of the evolving human and animal race.

    I am a believer in my religion and the process of humans and also animal evolution. The factors may not have to mix.

    @Erfisflat , I am ending my argument by restating my opinion of evolution being almost fully scientifically proven and also accurate. 
    aarong
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @erfislfat , before I began my argument I would like to mention that I respect and understand your arguments.

    I begin my argument by saying that Evolution is in fact true.

    The process of evolution is at this time almost scientifically proven with over whelming evidence including physical evidence such as fossils of animals throughout time depicting the process of evolution which is the core of the evolving human and animal race.

    I am a believer in my religion and the process of humans and also animal evolution. The factors may not have to mix.

    @Erfisflat , I am ending my argument by restating my opinion of evolution being almost fully scientifically proven and also accurate. 
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but falsely stating that evolution is a fact does not make it so.

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @Erfisflat   the first living thing was unicellular not multicellular. I assume you dont know much about science since you advocate for a flat earth. Unicellular organisms reproduce by mitosis or doubling and splitting themselves. The first male genitilia and female gentilia were either a mutation or just specialization of cells. The first thing did not procreate with itself. It just doubled its genetic material then divided it to create another organisms. When they formed colonies or the first simple multicellular organisms, they began to specialize into different genitilia. Although some continued asexual reproduction. Vertebrates evolved from invertebrates and we see that invertebrates to this day can repriduce asexually.

    Are you a troll?

    How can you call evolution pseudoscience with all the evidence there is for it? 

    You literally believe the earth is flat despite all the photos there are. You are in denial you just want to believe. Really dude? Flat earth despite all the photos and you have enough courage to call evolution pseudo science yet believe in a flat earth?

    The fossils dont prove we came from dirt. They prove we came from a common unicellular ancestor with all other life on earth. That unicellular eukaryote evolved into simple multicellular life forms then jawless fish then fish then amphibians then reptiles then mammals then eventually primates and humans. You are the one who believes we are made from dirt or mud or ribs or whatever god uses. 

    You still have not shown me what is the evidence for a flat earth nor where it says so in the bible.

    You still have to disprove the evidence for evolution and show me evidence for creationsim.

    melanielust
  • @Erfisflat your link redirected me to an earlier  post by you where you say you dont like the round earth "theory" and you stating you are not satisfied with scientism. In fact the only argument you make for your case is that the horizon is flat. Thats because the spherical earth is very massive compared to tiny humans. Imagine an ant on an 8 ball for pool then imagine an ant on the surface of the unisphere, the horizon will look flat due to the sheer size of the unisphere compared to the ants. You still need to refute the evidence for the round earth and provide where it says the earyb is flat in the bible.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Erfisflat   the first living thing was unicellular not multicellular. I assume you dont know much about science since you advocate for a flat earth. Unicellular organisms reproduce by mitosis or doubling and splitting themselves. The first male genitilia and female gentilia were either a mutation or just specialization of cells. The first thing did not procreate with itself. It just doubled its genetic material then divided it to create another organisms. When they formed colonies or the first simple multicellular organisms, they began to specialize into different genitilia. Although some continued asexual reproduction. Vertebrates evolved from invertebrates and we see that invertebrates to this day can repriduce asexually.

    Are you a troll?

    How can you call evolution pseudoscience with all the evidence there is for it? 

    You literally believe the earth is flat despite all the photos there are. You are in denial you just want to believe. Really dude? Flat earth despite all the photos and you have enough courage to call evolution pseudo science yet believe in a flat earth?

    The fossils dont prove we came from dirt. They prove we came from a common unicellular ancestor with all other life on earth. That unicellular eukaryote evolved into simple multicellular life forms then jawless fish then fish then amphibians then reptiles then mammals then eventually primates and humans. You are the one who believes we are made from dirt or mud or ribs or whatever god uses. 

    You still have not shown me what is the evidence for a flat earth nor where it says so in the bible.

    You still have to disprove the evidence for evolution and show me evidence for creationsim.

    Maybe you misunderstand my question. When the first male genitalia "evolved", and that organism couldn't asexually reproduce,  did the first female genitalia simultaneously evolve, so those organs could be passed down? Since those early life forms probably had a very short life span, it's illogical to say this magical series of events happened. And, yes, (macro)evolution is by definition pseudoscience, since it has never ever been experimentally proved. 

    " Really dude? Flat earth despite all the photos and you have enough courage to call evolution pseudo science yet believe in a flat earth?"

    Yes, water is always been experimentally proved to rest with a flat surface. The proof is there. But you'd accept a image (there are no actual photos of earth as a ball) as evidence?  Here you go, thisimage of God should disprove evolution. 

    Furthermore,you haven't read the debate, if you had, you wouldn't be calling images scientific proof.

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @Erfisflat

    "Evolution of genitilia"

    Your question makes no sense. Sexual reproduction is not a neccessity of life that had to happen. We could have lived without sexual reproduction and lived off asexual reproduction alone. Its a mutation that evolved and survived. You are thinking about it all wrong. However, scientific peer reviewed magazines like Nature and Scientific American have found lots of evidence that genitilia evolved by a mutation in hox genes that survived because of sexual selection and was caused by an environemntal pressure. Sexual reproduction began without sexually distinct organs. Evidence suggests gendered organs probably began as organs in the same individual (as in many plants), then the capacity evolved in some species for individuals to become gender diversified by their environment (as in many reptiles, some developing male organs, some female), and then finally these gender differences became locked into DNA as a chromosome mutation. 



    "Water on a surface"

    Unless the earth has gravity. There is dust on the moon. Why doesnt it fall off? Gravity.

    "Macroevolution"

    Macroevolution is when two distinct slecies are created. Ever heard of antibiotic resistant bacteria, E. Colu long term evolution experment, peppered moth experiment and the fruit fly experiment? There are many more those are the ones off the top of my head. But in each of those experiments, a differnet species was created/evolved that could not reproduce with the original species.

    "Images"

    Photographic evidence includes videos such as he first video by armstrong on the moon of earth and the earth was spherical. There are also photos from MULTIPLE agencies proving the earth is sphere. Why would they all be lying?
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Erfisflat

    "Evolution of genitilia"

    Your question makes no sense. Sexual reproduction is not a neccessity of life that had to happen. We could have lived without sexual reproduction and lived off asexual reproduction alone. Its a mutation that evolved and survived. You are thinking about it all wrong. However, scientific peer reviewed magazines like Nature and Scientific American have found lots of evidence that genitilia evolved by a mutation in hox genes that survived because of sexual selection and was caused by an environemntal pressure. Sexual reproduction began without sexually distinct organs. Evidence suggests gendered organs probably began as organs in the same individual (as in many plants), then the capacity evolved in some species for individuals to become gender diversified by their environment (as in many reptiles, some developing male organs, some female), and then finally these gender differences became locked into DNA as a chromosome mutation. 



    "Water on a surface"

    Unless the earth has gravity. There is dust on the moon. Why doesnt it fall off? Gravity.

    "Macroevolution"

    Macroevolution is when two distinct slecies are created. Ever heard of antibiotic resistant bacteria, E. Colu long term evolution experment, peppered moth experiment and the fruit fly experiment? There are many more those are the ones off the top of my head. But in each of those experiments, a differnet species was created/evolved that could not reproduce with the original species.

    "Images"

    Photographic evidence includes videos such as he first video by armstrong on the moon of earth and the earth was spherical. There are also photos from MULTIPLE agencies proving the earth is sphere. Why would they all be lying?
    post an image

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • How does evolution answer the question of morality?  

    Why does everyone push macroevolution when literally no one has ever seen it.  The 'evidence' for evolution hasn't been around as long as the Bible has been and the evidence came after the claim.  Not good.  
    kmelkevolution17
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @m_abusteit

    The first is a CGI film from the ISS, which is fake, the proof is here, if you can figure it out on your own 


    The second is a painting, and can be proved fake here.


    and the last was just an actual cut out and paste of this

    Onto a soundstage where they filmed the lunar landings.

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @SuperSith89 , good point and I agree with your logical argyment.
  • @SuperSith89 @kmelkevolution17


    Objective morals do not exist. Morals and morality is subjective. Slavery is not ok now but it was ok back then. Womens rights is ok nos but not ok back then. Gender rights ok now but not ok back then. Animal rights ok now but not ok back then. Polygamy ok in middle east and india but not ok in the west. Cannibalism is ok in parts of africa but not ok anywhere else. Child martiage is ok in the middle east but not ok anywhere else. Female genital mutaltion is ok in africa and the middle east but not ok anywhere else. Gays are accepted in the west but killed in almost all other countries like in the middle east, russia and china and india and latin america. Morality is not objective. Even justice is different. In islamic countries, a murderer is beheaded. In western countries, its a jail sentence. Even if morality was objective it would not come from god who has a track record of mass genocide, sex slavery, child abuse, homophobia, sexism, mass murder, rape, pillage and plunder and who throws you in eternal flaming hell because you did not love him or were his friend ir you were born in an isolated village in india or china and died with original sin because you had no idea what christianity is or who is jesus was.
    SuperSith89
  • m_abusteitm_abusteit 87 Pts
    edited June 15
    @Erfisflat   those videos are just a bunch of conspiracy theorists and frankly the videos do not meet the burden of proof. They are just unsatisfactory and provide weak evidence or arguments. So the original pictures are still sustained. Those pics and vids come from authentic reliable sourves. How do you explain go pro experiments that literally went to space and tooke pics without the fish eyelens. 




    You still have not responded nor disproved my above evidence and did not tell me where in the bible it says the earth is flat. If you dont respond in the next reply, it was nice talking.

    Explain how flight Pan Am flight 50 went in a straight line over both poles and still ended up where it started. How could you go over both poles and circumnavigate vertically on a flat earth?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Erfisflat   those videos are just a bunch of conspiracy theorists and frankly the videos do not meet the burden of proof. They are just unsatisfactory and provide weak evidence or arguments. So the original pictures are still sustained. Those pics and vids come from authentic reliable sourves. How do you explain go pro experiments that literally went to space and tooke pics without the fish eyelens. 




    You still have not responded nor disproved my above evidence and did not tell me where in the bible it says the earth is flat. If you dont respond in the next reply, it was nice talking.

    Explain how flight Pan Am flight 50 went in a straight line over both poles and still ended up where it started. How could you go over both poles and circumnavigate vertically on a flat earth?
    In your first video, you can pause at 1:54 and clearly see concave earth, indicating a fisheye lens, and one unverifiable 50 year old flight doesn't convince me or anyone for that matter. Your 2nd video is dead I think. 
    natbarons

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @m_abusteit
    Good try though 

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @Erfisflat
    Thats NOT thr horizon. That light pollution. Otherlight from the same spaceship sent is collected by the camera and forms a concave entry into the apparature. This is called light pollution when other light enters and distorts the further light. That was not the horizon at 1 54 that was light pollution. Go pro issues a statement they did not use any fisheye lenses for their cameras on the rocketship launch. 

    Here is another link to the second one

    .... 





    Unfortunately, you did not address the things i told you so nice talking to you.
    Erfisflatmelef
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Erfisflat
    Thats NOT thr horizon. That light pollution. Otherlight from the same spaceship sent is collected by the camera and forms a concave entry into the apparature. This is called light pollution when other light enters and distorts the further light. That was not the horizon at 1 54 that was light pollution. Go pro issues a statement they did not use any fisheye lenses for their cameras on the rocketship launch. 

    Here is another link to the second one

    .... 





    Unfortunately, you did not address the things i told you so nice talking to you.
    another obvious fisheye lens. Pause it at 0:46 to see what the horizon looks like

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @m_abusteit

    All gopro cameras have fish eye lenses, they even include a tutorial and correction software to remove the effect. 
    https://gopro.com/support/articles/how-can-i-remove-the-distortion-fisheye-effect-in-gopro-studio

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • melefmelef 44 Pts
    @m_abusteit , I agree with you. 

    @erfisflat , I respect your argument, but all the evidence that our rpicse don't have actual photographic or video graphic evidence, while the other side does. You can't provide that type of evidence, because there isn't moments whichever price should your theory is false. Please keep all argument so regarding that debate out of this debate which is about evolution.
  • @m_abusteit So you are saying there is no right and wrong.  If there is no moral conviction, then through evolution, the laws we have don't matter because everyone has their own morality.  Rapists have their own morality, murderers have their own, and the other groups you mentioned have theirs.  Then if there is no absolute truth then we have no right to convict them as that is our truth and not theirs.  This idea if more fleshed out here: http://crossexamined.org/do-objective-moral-truths-exist-in-reality/

    Also, give me evidence of God being hateful, a murderer, and the other claims you made.  Do we have any right judging the creator anyways?  If He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient then He obviously knows more than us and knows more about the situations that many judge Him on.  You may say He is not those three things, but having God be all these things is needed for our universe to run.  You need an infinite being to govern a finite universe and our universe if not finite.  It has a beginning and it is coming to and end.  You do agree with that. 

    Without knowing the full story during the OT times, there is no way to convict God, if that was even a fair thing to do.  He holds the future, the present, and the past and He has a plan for every single person.  Jeremiah 29:11 "11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    edited June 15 Premium Member
    @melef Honestly,  I agree, to an extent. Whether or not the earth is flat should be discussed in debate. I've told @m_abusteit the same thing, but, a flat, stationary earth is evidence of ID, he knows this, which is why he insists on giving proof of a spherical earth, that I continue to debunk.

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • And is the argument that 'someone growing up never hearing about Jesus' pretty invalid?  I don't think there is one country that has not had some way of hearing.  Through youtube, twitter, anything on the internet, thousands of missionaries, and just word of mouth through non-believers.  Our world has made it very hard to stay isolated from anything.  
  • @melef

    I would not even waste my time on him. I already explained to him what light pollution is and how the specific go pro for this rocket did not have a fisheye lens. I already told him that the concave appearance is light pollution and not the horizon and he did not even touch on the other 20 pieces of evidence like round lunar eclipse, flights over antartica and time zones so just save yourself and do not waste your time. He will go around saying he debunked my evidence when he failed at debunking photographic evidence which is just one line of evidence from the sea of evidence i provided earlier in one of my posts.  
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 360 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @melef see?

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • m_abusteitm_abusteit 87 Pts
    edited June 15
    @m_abusteit So you are saying there is no right and wrong.  If there is no moral conviction, then through evolution, the laws we have don't matter because everyone has their own morality.  Rapists have their own morality, murderers have their own, and the other groups you mentioned have theirs.  Then if there is no absolute truth then we have no right to convict them as that is our truth and not theirs.  This idea if more fleshed out here: http://crossexamined.org/do-objective-moral-truths-exist-in-reality/

    Also, give me evidence of God being hateful, a murderer, and the other claims you made.  Do we have any right judging the creator anyways?  If He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient then He obviously knows more than us and knows more about the situations that many judge Him on.  You may say He is not those three things, but having God be all these things is needed for our universe to run.  You need an infinite being to govern a finite universe and our universe if not finite.  It has a beginning and it is coming to and end.  You do agree with that. 

    Without knowing the full story during the OT times, there is no way to convict God, if that was even a fair thing to do.  He holds the future, the present, and the past and He has a plan for every single person.  Jeremiah 29:11 "11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
     I am nor saying there is no right and wrong. I am saying that right and wrong do exist but they are definetly not objective and they differ from one person or culture to another.

    "If there are no moral convictions, the laws we have dont matter because evryone can have his own morality"

    They do matter but they are just subjective for example, beating your wife in the west is a jail sentence but in the middle east and russia, there is no punishment against it. Cannibalism is ok and legal in eastern and western african tribes, there are laws against cannibalism in almost all countries. No laws against homosexuality in the west, middle east and russia they are killed as well as in china and india and africa and latin america.

    "Evidence god is hateful"

    God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).

    God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there.  He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3).  He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6).  In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife!

    Just about every other page in the Old Testament has  God killing somebody!  In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!  In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered

    The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).  This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.

    Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.  If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself.  Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven:  For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12).  I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.

    The  God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.

    And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear: It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17).

     Punishing ‘Immorality’

    Leviticus 20:9

    If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
    20:10If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
    20:13If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
    Deuteronomy 22:20-1If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.

    Exodus 35:2

    For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

    On Destroying Other People

    Deuteronomy 7:1-2When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
    20:10-17When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. 
         However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

    On the Evil of Biblical Law

    Ezekiel 20:25-26I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.

    On Slavery & Subjugation of Women

    Ephesians 5:22-24Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
    Exodus 21:20-21If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
    1 Peter 2:13Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men.
    2:18Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

    Leviticus 25:44-45

    Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

    "Universe has a beginning"

    No. Before the big bang the entirety of matter and energy in this universe existed in a singularity. This singularity is eternal because energy and matter can not be created nor destroyed according to the firdt law of thermodynamics and the law of conservation of matter and energy. So it was most likely eternal. Before the big babg and outside the singularity, there was no time since that dimesnsion only became applicable in the big bang so nothing could exist. Without time, your god could not exist not even for one second.


    "There is no way to convict god"

    Why? How do you know he even exists? What is the evidence?

    "Fate of the unevangilized" 

    Actually yes. A lot of villagers in africa, bangladesh and sri lanka and china have no idea who jesus was or wtf christianity is. Even before the internet and globalization, how did people in the far areas of the world like native australians and native americans and the chinese learn about jesus before the internet. Europenas only started sharing jesus and other christian ideas since 1500 which means that in those 1500 years between jesus and the age of exploration, people who lived and died were all unevangilized. What happened to the people before jesus.

    If you want me to continue this debate, include answers to tue following questions in your reply. 

    Do you believe in evolution?

    If you dont, why not?

    Do you believe in the big bang?

    How old is the earth?

    What is its shape? 

    Is our solar system helio or geo centric?


  • But the law should not mean anything to me because that is their idea of morality and it does not apply to me.  Right and wrong cannot exist without objective morality because no one is officially wrong no matter what.  You even said it differs person to person, so the government has no right in jailing me.  That's because their morals are different.  You accept part of it, you accept all of it.  

    Again, no one has a right to judge God based on His laws for a world that existed thousands of years ago and His actions based off of your own understanding.  Thinking you can judge Him off of what He did is just foolish and illogical.  Do you know everything that happened back in the OT?  Were you there?  What God did is justified because He is God.  I'll ignore the verses because I stated this before.  I would like to emphasize my point on the world being much different so long ago.  This is 2017.  That was a time long before anyone you know was born.  We just got past segregation less than a hundred years ago.  Imagine a thousand.  2,000.  3,000.  (I am highly curious as to where you heard about God promoting human sacrifice.  Isaac?  That was a test and He never allowed Him to touch Him.)

    Your argument about the universe having no beginning is extremely flawed.  For one, it is impossible for a finite universe to exist forever.  Infinity is not something the human brain can even process.  Nothing can ever represent infinity, it's just how matter is.  God does not apply to that law, or to any laws of time because if He is to be infinite, then He must be outside of the natural laws as nature cannot be infinite.  This concept is a basic scientific one, that the universe cannot exist outside of a finite reality.  It would have to have a larger cause.  The law of cause and effect proves that.  Larger causes would have to bring our universe to be, and that cause needs to be infinite and outside of the natural reality.  

    Even if there were people who never heard of Jesus, God ensures no one will have never heard of His message.   "The truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God" (Romans 1:19-20, New Living Translation).  No matter who you are, you will know His message.  He has ensured this much.  Now I have no idea what happened before Jesus, but I know the punishment then was death and God made Himself known to all then.  The way to God then was sacrificing clean animals. They could go to heaven, but Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice for all mankind.  

    I do not believe in evolution.

    Because there is no solid evidence as of yet.  Scientists have even proven that life could not have been created without intelligent design.  http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Oct/3/ten-major-flaws-evolution-revised/
      
    Not at all.

    Around 6,000 or 7,000 years old.  http://www.icr.org/article/evidence-for-young-world/
     
    It's not flat, if that is what you are getting at.  I do not agree with ErfisFlat on that I assure you.  Even if he was, what does it matter?  Does it change my daily life?  No.  I will still go to college, work, and play video games.  It has no effect on me.  

    Helio-centric.   
    Erfisflat
  • Oh no, I saw Ephesians in there.  You see, Paul wrote a letter to the church of Ephesus only.  Those laws applied to them and they were commands from God on how to improve themselves.  
  • @SuperSith89

    "Morality"

    Thank you for admitting that morality is subjective and changes from person to person. Therefore there is no need for evolution to address morality or objective morality since morality is not objective but subjective and developed in a cultural context. If morality is not objective, it does not have to come from anywhere since it is not universal. Subjective morality just comes from the agreement of what some people think is ok to do and not ok to do and this varies from person to person. 

    "No one can judge god"

    Bad argument. Your argument saays you cant judge god coz you dont know the circumstances. We do know, the OT does record the leading "sins". For example, god burnt down sodom and gomorrah for homosexuality and completely destroyed the whole city. God punished homosexuality very severely and in a very barbaric way. Today in western countries, homosexuality is ok. What god thought was immoral, western countries think is moral which proves morality to be subjective. Do you tuink homosexuality is a good enough reason to destroy the whole city and kill everyone in it? What do you think would happen to someone who said "i hate homosexuals and i will kill everyone and i will destroy the whole city"? If someone said that today, they would be sent to a mental health correction facility.

    "Infinity and matter"

    Infinity exists. Divide rhe circumference of a circle by its diameter, you get pi which is infinite. 

    According to the law of conservation of matter and energy, matter can not be created nor destroyed which mean it has existed around forever. 

    There was no time for anything to exist before the big bang outside of the singularity so not even time for god. Without time, god cant exist not even for one second. 

    If infinity does not exist, how did god exist for an infinite eternity doing nothing before the creation of the universe?


    "Fate of the unevangilized"

    Those people in remote vullages and before jesus, did not learn of christianity and judaism so they could not have heard of his message or prophets.

    "Ephesians" 

    Does not matter if mark or peter or paul wrote it. If its in the bible then its supposedly from god and you have no problems whatsoever with what god says. So what even uf it was sent to ephesus. Its till an immoral act no matter how it was done or commanded against.

    "Heliocentric"

    Against the bible.



                                                                                 The mobility of the sun

    The most important biblical quote supporting a geocentric universe can be found in the Book of Joshua. This will be used as the starting point for our scriptural cosmology.

    Joshua 10:12-13
    Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

    The miracle of Joshua appears again as a reference in The Book of Habakkuk.

    Habakkuk 3:11
    The sun and moon stood still in their habitation at the light of thine arrows as they sped, at the flash of thy glittering spear.

    Why is this a miracle when the sun is stationary anyways? It is obvious from this verse the sun rotates around the earth and that it is a miracle for the sun to stop rotating the earth. In science, the sun is stationary and does not orbit the earth and therefore does not stop or need to stop. Notice how it does not say it made it appear to stop. It flat out says the sun and the moon stood still (stationary).

    Psalms 19:4-6
    yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man RUNS HIS COURSE with joy. Its RISING is FROM the END of the heavens, and its CIRCUIT to the END of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat. This verse plainly says the sun runs a circuit from one end of the heaven to the other end.

    Ecclesiastes 1:5
    The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.

    There is no place where the sun rises.


    The mighty God, even JEHOVAH, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof (Psalm 50:1).   There would be a rising place (start of the   ) and a setting place 

                                                                            The stability of the earth

    On the other side of the geocentric coin, if the sun moves then the earth must not move. There are a few passages which more-or-less forbid the motion of the earth.

    1 Chronicles 16:30
    tremble before him, all earth; yea, the world stands firm, NEVER TO BE MOVED.

    Psalms 93:1
    The Lord reigns; he is robbed in majesty; the lord is robbed, he is girded with strength. Yea, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

    Psalms 96:10
    Say among the nations, "The Lord reigns! Yea, the world is established, it shall never be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity."

    In addition, the notion of an earth with a "foundation" is quite common. This leads one to conclude that the earth is quite stable.

    The Hebrew word “yahsad” is used of the foundations of the earth in the following passages: Job 38:4; Ps. 78:69, 102:25, 104:5; Is. 48:13, 51:13, 51:16; Zech. 12:1.

    It is I who have firmly set its pillars.
    - Psalm 75:3

    1 Samuel 2:8. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.

    2 Samuel 22:16
    Then the channels of the sea were seen, the foundations of the world were laid bare, at the rebuke of the Lord at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

    Psalms 18:15
    Then the channels of the sea were seen, and the foundations of the world were laid bare, at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

    Psalms 102:25
    Of old thou didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

    Proverbs 8:27-29
    When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,

    Isaiah 48:13
    My hand laid out the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand forth together.

    Psalms 104:5
    Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken. 

    But what about earthquakes?

    Job 9:6
    who shakes the earth from its place, and its PILLARS tremble.

    Isaiah 24:18
    He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

    Job 9:6
    who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.

    Job 38:4-6
    Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements — surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone?


    "Not flat" 

    Against the bible.


    The shape of the earth

    In any case, the earth is not spherical. According to the Scriptures, from a very high spot (heaven, for example) one could see the entire earth such that nothing would be hidden. Such a thing is not possible with a spherical earth as the opposite side can't be seen directly. This implies that the earth is flat.

    Job 28:24
    For he looks to the ENDS of the earth, and sees everything under the heavens.

    Psalms 19:4-6
    yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs his course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.

    Daniel 4:10-11
    The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth; and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.

    Matthew 4:8
    Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them;

    Isaiah 40:22
    It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

    From a great distance, a sphere would look like a circle. Perhaps the phrase "circle of the earth" refers to the outline of the earth? Perhaps. But then how could one see "all the kingdoms of the world? Those on the back hemisphere would remain hidden. The next passages should remove this confusion.

    Psalms 136:6
    to him who spread out the earth upon the waters, for his steadfast love endures forever;

    Isaiah 44:24
    Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb; "I am the Lord, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth — Who was with me? —

    If the earth were spherical, one would use a verb other than "spread out" to describe its creation (balled up, gathered up, gathered together, anything but spread out). One might say they "spread out" batter to make pancakes but no one would ever say they "spread out" hamburger to make meatballs. The earth in the Bible was "spread out" because it is flat.

    This next verse appears to describe an earth that tele-literate humans would recognize.

    Job 26: 7
    He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon nothing.

    The highlighted portion reads like a description of the earth as seen from outer space. The remainder is entirely obscure, however. What void are they talking about? What does it mean to "stretch out the north"? Help me somebody.

    The extent of the earth

    Not only is the earth flat, it is also finite.

    Psalms 103:12
    as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us.

    On a spherical earth, one could travel east or west indefinitely. This passage seems to be saying that there is a limit to the directions east and west. That is, after some long journey, one would run out of east or west having reached the end of the earth. This contention is further justified in numerous passages.

    Deuteronomy 28:64
    And the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other; and there you shall serve other gods, of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known.

    Deuteronomy 33:17
    His firstling bull has majesty, and his horns are the horns of a wild ox; with them he shall push the peoples, all of them, to the ends of the earth; such are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and such are the thousands of Manasseh.

    1 Samuel 2:10
    The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces; against them he will thunder in heaven. The Lord will judge the ends of the earth; he will give strength to his king, and exalt the power of his anointed.

    Job 28:24
    For he looks to the ends of the earth, and sees everything under the heavens.

    Job 38:13
    that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it?

    Psalms 19:4-6
    yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs his course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.

    Psalms 22:27
    All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.

    Psalms 46:9
    He makes wars cease to the end of the earth; he breaks the bow and shatters the spear, he burns the chariots with fire!

    Psalms 48:10
    As thy name, O God, so thy praise reaches to the ends of the earth. Thy right hand is filled with victory;

    Psalms 59:13
    consume them in wrath, consume them till they are no more, that men may know that God rules over Jacob to the ends of the earth;

    Psalms 61:2
    from the end of the earth I call to thee, when my heart is faint. Lead thou me to the rock that is higher than I;

    Psalms 65:5
    By dread deeds thou dost answer us with deliverance, O God of our salvation, who art the hope of all the ends of the earth, and of the farthest seas;

    Isaiah 41:9
    you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, "You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off";

    Jeremiah 51:16
    When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth.

    Daniel 4:10-11
    The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth; and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.

    Mark 13:27
    And then they will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

    The edge of the earth

    The phrase "the midst of the earth" from Daniel implies that not only does the earth have a boundary it also has a center. Since trees grow only on the earth's surface, the earth's center must also be on its surface. A sphere has its center beneath its surface which means that the earth is not a sphere but some sort of plane geometric figure. This raises another question. What is the shape of the earth's boundary? The answer is somewhat puzzling.

    Job 26:10
    He has described a circle upon the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.

    Job 37:3
    Under the whole heaven he lets it go, and his lightning to the corners of the earth.

    Proverbs 8:27-29
    When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,

    Isaiah 11:12
    He will raise an ensign for the nations, and will assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

    Isaiah 40:22
    It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

    Isaiah 41:9
    you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, "You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off";

    Ezekiel 7:2
    "And you, O son of man, thus says the Lord God to the land of Israel: An end! The end has come upon the four corners of the land.

    Revelation 7:1
    After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on the earth or sea or against any tree.

    Revelation 20:8
    and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

    Who hath established all the ends of the earth?
    - Proverbs 30:4

    "Age of earth"

    Against science. Growth rings prove some trees are older than the the age range yoi gave. As of 2013, the oldest tree-ring measurements in the Northern Hemisphere extend back 13,900 years according to Reimer, Paula J.; et al. (2013). "IntCal13 and Marine13 radiocarbon age calibration curves 0–50,000 years cal BP".Radiocarbon55: 1869–1887.doi:10.2458/azu_js_rc.55.16947. Some light has been travelling for 13.7 billion years according to

     http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/102-the-universe/cosmology-and-the-big-bang/the-big-bang/594-how-has-light-from-13-billion-years-ago-not-passed-us-by-beginner .

    Some rocks have been dated to 4.5 billion years.

    "Big bang"

    Against science. The expansion and eedshift of galaxies, cosmic microwave background radiation and abundance of primordial elements prove the big bang.

    "Evolution"

    Against science. Check the op for evidence.
    SuperSith89Erfisflat
  • So you basically admit no one is ever at fault?  Murder isn't wrong anymore then?  Alright, let's get rid of our laws then because there is no right anymore!  It's only subjective anyways, this person has his own truth!  He feels right about murdering, so we have NO RIGHT in putting him in jail because that is HIS morality and not ours.  Yeah, go on believing that.  I don't even want to continue this because that is a sick thing to actually believe.
  • @SuperSith89  

    I said it is subjective for murder to be wrong. I said nothing about my own morality. Isaid morality is subjective and some people believe murder is fine because thats their morality and they think that is right like murder of homosexuals and non believers in islam as in surah 9 verse 29.they are okay with murder. I am not. My own morality is aligned with western values.  However murder under some circumstances is okay in other cultures. Nazis were okay with murder too.
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