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Should Trump Deport Illegal Immigrants?

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  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    @Vaulk belief is that the rich should not be taxed is your personal moral. That personal moral belief is what is opposing my statement that we should tax the rich to feed the poor. You defense is your personal moral belief, meaning it's not an ad hominem attack. 

    On the point of welfare why you would not think of tax cuts as financially supporting is beyond me. You literally are arguing to remove the taxes cuts for the poor because you do not seem them as morally right. When you say that everyone "should" be taxed at 10% you are removing the financial support low income receive via tax breaks. It's like saying hey I know things are tough for you, so you don't have to chip in as much as everyone else it's cool, everyone else will support you and cover your part.

    Now as for the technical definition, sure isn't being correctly applied when applied to the rich, that's why I clarified how I was defining it when I used the word. (you know to be honest) This is not Definitional Retreat because we have not defined the word welfare before now. And you are dishonestly accusing me of things I did not do. You are of course welcome to dispute the definition I used,(as you have done) It's obviously not from a independent 3rd party source so you have grounds, but it's a fair definition in the higher levels of abstraction and allows me to compare apples to apples. I can use financial support if you want, it really doesn't matter what the term is so long as the concept is conveyed. 

    You ARE a dishonest debater. I showed proof how you are being dishonest in your arguments, to call you dishonest isn't an ad hominem fallacy because it relates to the way you present your arguments. I'm not skipping the argument and attacking the person, I'm calling you out on the way you are debating your points as dishonest. Here is a link about what is and what is not an ad hominem attack. Read educate and hopefully come back better.

    http://laurencetennant.com/bonds/adhominem.html

    On the accusation of red herring. Really?
    You say 36k are criminals and I say we have 320 million people in this country (implying 36k is not a "big" number)
    You say criminals were "let go" and I say the justice system lets people go all the time, that's not a immigrant issue that's a justice system issue

    When I respond directly to what you say, it's not a red herring, as I'm not the one who brought up the topic... you are. Then you indicate that the "justice system" is a different topic. You know the justice system that let your immigrate go free... And somehow me making comments about the justice system which let the immigrants go free is completely a different topic that has no bearing on this debate and should be equated to me bring up dinosaurs. Did I mention you are a dishonest debater yet? I feel like it needs to be said again. 

    So I've provided clear and concise explanations for why your argument is invalid, how about you stop with the drama and theatrics mkay?
    spandamApplesauce
  • spandamspandam 43 Pts   -  
    I agree with @Coveny
    Coveny
  • VaulkVaulk 813 Pts   -  
    Oh and here


    "If there's no such thing as a question then what kind of questions do people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".


  • VaulkVaulk 813 Pts   -  
    Oh and here


    "If there's no such thing as a question then what kind of questions do people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".


  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    Is it illegal to be a human being existing on planet Earth?
    Applesauce
  • agsragsr 881 Pts   -  
    Is it illegal to be a human being existing on planet Earth?
    You should create that debate in philosophy category, but it is illegal to be an illegal immigrant in the USA. 
    Live Long and Prosper
  • OakchairbcOakchairbc 88 Pts   -  
    A) All you anti-immigrant people need to stop being hysterical. Overstaying a visa and mowing lawns is nothing like robbing your house or any crime. You are deliberately being dishonest. 
    B) There is zero practical reason to deport undocumented immigrants. Doing so does not create any benefits; it does not save money it does not help anyone. In fact deportation costs billions of dollars and ruins the life of the people being deported. No intelligent moral person would spend their money ruining peoples lives.
    C) All the studies on immigration find that it is a net positive for natives economic well being. Here are some examples:
    1- The Mariel boatlift is when Miamis population saw an influx of low skilled immigrants equal to 7% of its population. Studies find that this very large influx did not harm natives[1]
    2- In 1965 America kicked out millions of Mexican farm workers. The result was that areas that had the most Mexican workers kicked out had the worst economic performance[2].
    3- Low skilled immigration improves economic wages by 1%[3].
    4- Cities with higher low immigration populations had natives with a 40% reduced chance of losing their job[4].

    [1]https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/23/15855342/immigrants-wages-trump-economics-mariel-boatlift-hispanic-cuban
    [2]http://voxeu.org/article/impact-immigration-barriers-native-workers
    [3]http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2014/08/how-immigration-benefits-natives.html
    [4]http://owenzidar.wordpress.com/2013/08/14/immigrants-equilibrate-local-labor-markets-evidence-from-the-great-recession/

    Covenycheesycheese
  • George_HorseGeorge_Horse 499 Pts   -  
    They need to go! 

    cheesycheese
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill

    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
  • TheeKnowingTheeKnowing 31 Pts   -   edited April 2018
    How can you deport a nation of people who were in this land first, then taken by another nation that was not invited to this land. America was brought up on illegal immigration because so-called white people or American Europeans, came to this land illegally. They were not invited here nor did they come here to "teach" Native American Indians how to be "civilized". They specifically came here to murder, rape, steal and rob this land and all the goods and wealth the so-called Native Americans had. "Mexicans", like Native American Indians, where here before the white man because Mexicans are so-called Native American Indians. They became "Mexicans" when the Spaniards (Europeans) enslaved them, raped them, murdered, robbed, and stole their land, goods and wealth, then divided the North American continent or the Land of the North, into different countries. 

    So if you want to talk about illegal immigration, I think it would be fair to say that Europeans, Arabs, Chinese, Japanese, Indians from India, Polish, British, so on and so forth, should be deported back to whatever land they came from and return all the stolen property back to their rightful owners. Black Americans were forced to come here by white European Americans, thus, they as well should not be deported back to the land that they were forced out of and forced to come to America.

    When it comes to illegal immigration, make sure you know history, and I mean actual history, not white washed history. 
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    Yes, he should do this and immediately. As he said, they bring nothing good to this country or for the most pry in general as well.
    where is the proof that they bring nothing? Statistics show 2/3rds of them do lower paid jobs that most American citizens would do. So, if we were to deport them, would you be willing to take over their jobs of garbageman, or mowing lawns, or being a janitor? I believe people who do these jobs should be as respected as CEOs of a company because they do play an important part of the economy.
    cheesycheese
  • TheocratTheocrat 69 Pts   -  
    Yes, kick them all out.  IF they return shoot them.
    Polaris95George_Horsecheesycheese
  • TbanaTbana 18 Pts   -  
     I think so. I see more pros than cons if he were to deport them. It's a sad situation, but we must consider the safety of our country first. An increase in crimes, trafficking, stolen jobs, ect. It's just a mess. However, I believe in diversity too, and I think it'd be perfectly fine if they lived in our country....just legally. That's what the system is for, to filter out the bad people from the ones that truly deserve to be in our great country.  @awesokwkks19
    George_Horse
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5971 Pts   -  
    People who claim that these people can stay in the country, but they should do it legally - have a very poor understanding of the US immigration system. I am a (legal) immigrant here, and let me tell you that, unless you have very special circumstances (such as being married to a US citizen, or qualifying for asylum, or being able to provide the economy with half a million worth of investments), or you happen to have a profession that is present in the list of the professions most valued by the US government (which is my case) - there is no guaranteed way to be able to move here. Even if you have a job offer from a US company, you are more likely to be denied the entrance, than granted one, since the quotas turn the visa distribution into a lottery.

    Now, I am not saying that it validates allowing illegal immigrants to stay here legally. I am simply saying that the premise behind this argument is not based on reality. There is almost no way a Mexican worker working on a farm in Texas illegally right now can do the same on legal grounds, through the general visa application. Which, again, is not necessarily a bad thing - I do agree that the country should attract investors and high-profile specialists, rather than manual laborers. It just should be argued from a reasonable position, not from one that misrepresents the current US immigration system.
  • Yes. Because if we continue to let illegals into our country, we’re dead. Some, not all are criminals. They. Bring drugs and crime in. If we get a chance to screen them, we’ll have a better idea of who they are and what they’re about.
    cheesycheeseGeorge_Horse
    Not every quote you read on the internet is true- Abraham Lincoln
  • cheesycheesecheesycheese 79 Pts   -  
    @AmericanFurryBoy thats a massive oversimplification
  • Polaris95Polaris95 147 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar

    This is why the US needs to overhaul that. Those laws are pretry regressive IMO. Being selective about who immigrates to countries is something that might work fine during national emergencies, wars, etc. 
  • AlecAlec 71 Pts   -  
    Is there a decent reason to deport illegal immigrants?

    "They take away our jobs"  They also create jobs in the form of businesses.

    "They are too lazy and on welfare"  No they aren't.  Just above, you accused them of taking your jobs.

    "They don't know English"  Most illegals do know English.  The ones who don't should get deported, but not to Latin America.  They can get deported to Quebec instead, where the language is easier to learn for the Latin Immigrants and it is away from the violence.

    "They murder Americans"  So do Legal Americans.  All murderers should be killed, but most illegals are not murderers.  They are also less likely to commit crime then legal counterparts unless you count being here illegally as a crime.

    "They get free education"  So do Legal Americans.  In fact, many illegals com here as adults and therefor don't need education.  They instead will be paying for the youth's education.
    cheesycheese
  • cheesycheesecheesycheese 79 Pts   -  
    @Alec
    I agree with you except for the death penalty part
  • SitaraSitara 17 Pts   -  
    Here is a thought: We need to stop meddling in foreign affairs through wars and sanctions that make people want to come here in the first place, have free trade, and create a pathway to citizenship for people who have been here a long time. Also, who will get Americans to do these horrible jobs that immigrants are desperate enough to do?
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    Sitara said:
    Here is a thought: We need to stop meddling in foreign affairs through wars and sanctions that make people want to come here in the first place, have free trade, and create a pathway to citizenship for people who have been here a long time. Also, who will get Americans to do these horrible jobs that immigrants are desperate enough to do?

    What sanctions or wars are we waging on Honduras or Guatemala?
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5971 Pts   -  
    @Polaris95 ;

    Being selective is fine in my book, but being blind to reality is not. If someone has lived here for 5 years, worked a proper job, paid taxes, speaks English fluently, etc. - then there is no reason to not grant them citizenship, as they at this point are Americans in everything but legal status. There is also no reason to not accept people who have a job offer from the US, but did not win a ticket in some arbitrary quota lottery. Or to not accept people who gave up on everything they had in their home countries and want to do an honest living in a prosperous society.

    There are people the US is better off without. A lot of the categories not legally accepted currently are not those people, however. The system needs to change, albeit it is hard to prescribe the exact policies to implement.

    For starters, the government could do what the high-tech company leaders have been proposing for a long time now: guarantee citizenship to everyone who obtained a degree in a government-recognized university in the US. I realize that I have a personal stake here, but even if I did not, it seems like the best way to assure that the US keeps a lot of high-profile specialists.

    I have a friend, a very talented physicist, who is currently working on his PhD in the US, and afterwards wants to move to Italy permanently. Creating a clear incentive for him to stay in the US would obviously benefit the country. And there are dozens thousands people in his shoes, many of which will go back to their home countries or move somewhere else, depriving the US of being able to utilize their potential.
  • cheesycheesecheesycheese 79 Pts   -  
    Yes, he should do this and immediately. As he said, they bring nothing good to this country or for the most pry in general as well.
    Hmm so you use the word of a man who believes that vaccines cause autism as evidence
  • cheesycheesecheesycheese 79 Pts   -  
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