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If I support Trump, am I a closet Racist?

2

Comments

  • DebateIslandRocksDebateIslandRocks 13 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    CYDdharta, I agree with you.  Trump is not racist and neither are his supporters.  Being against illegal immigrants is different than being against muslims or mexicans. Democrats breed all type of racism, so should we call all Hillary supporters racist as well?
  • inc4tinc4t 128 Pts
    @debateislandrocks, @CYDdharta , i disagree.  @WhyTrump right - it is racist. I am not saying 100%, but a good majority supporting his principles.  I also picked up on the use of @ feature, and even just got a debateIsland badge for using it.  
  • agsragsr 485 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Again, being against illegal immigrants is different than being a racist. The argument doesn't hold
    Live Long and Prosper
  • No, Trump supporters are not closet racists. Also, I agree with agsr who is one of the best debateisland.com users if not on any debate website.
  • agsragsr 485 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Thank you @kendraakk_1982  for your kind words.  It is incorrect generalize Trump supporters as racist.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • No, we typically align with candidates on issues that are close to us.  You may disagree with Trump in many issues and agree with him in other, but you take the bad with good.  Calling everyone that supports Trump a racist is a mistake that over simplifies the complex views and concerns of people living in this country.  I know Mexicans that support Trump because of the perceived financial opportunities he will bring to the market, but disagree with his views on immigration.  Having said that, if I have to guess the political affiliation of a racist person, I would go with Trump supporter without hesitation.
  • No, Teump supporters have certain beliefs that apply to their candidate just like others have believes that apply to their candidates.
  • agsragsr 485 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @model67 made a good point. It is not correct to generalize, and good examples with some mexicans supporting Trump. That said if I was a Mexican, I probably wouldn't tell that to my other mexican friends for fear of personal safety.  But please tell your Mexican friend that he is welcome to debate anonymously as a valuable member of DebateIsland community.  :)
    Live Long and Prosper
  • That's very funny agsr. Also, I love this website. I found it through google and am switching over from  Debate.org and createdebate.com. I heard that many top users are switching over as well as other users. They now have some competition.
  • agsragsr 485 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Thank you @landa_landa1929 . Welcome to DebateIsland, We look forward to debating with you.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • No, Trump supporters are not racists. Also, I love this website.
  • When I created this debate I expected a more split response.  More than 70% decisively disagree that Trump supporters are racist.  I personally don't feel that most Trump supporters are racists.  This debate opened up an interesting diverse perspectives what it means to be racists and how are we willing and unwilling to admit publically, anonymously, or even to ourselves.
    Please continue debating on this interesting topic.  I just wanted to take this checkpoint and thank everyone who took the time to vote and express their valuable point of view.
  • enbh_venbh_v 2 Pts
    I also don't believe that they are closet racists.
  • ale5ale5 126 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Given the latest immigration ban, I will argue that it's another example of borderline racism. It is spot on targeting Muslims. 
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • agsragsr 485 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Ale5, being against illegal immigrants and unvetted dangerous immigrants from countries listed in the ban (that happen to be mostly muslims) is very different then beinf racist
    Live Long and Prosper
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 140 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
  • All Trump Supporters are not racist. It is not right to generalize about  such a large group. Sure there may be a few who are actually racists but they are a  minority. @lakix_10291 @love2debate
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 140 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @bruce706 , while I agree that it is inappropriate to generalize all Trump supporters as racists, I will argue
    1) Trump himself is racist (see the article I posted above), and therefore at a minimum Trump supporter condone this behavior
    2) I agree not all are racists,  but disagree that it is a minority.  It is a good chunk, but many may not even admit it to themselves, self- justifying their believes
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • @WhyTrump Just as strong a case can be made that Obama was a racist, but Trump wasn't supported by active racist organizations like La Raza and Black Lives Matter.  Since Obama and Hillary both endorsed these organizations, doesn't that make them and their supporters  racists as well?
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 140 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @CYDdharta , that is a bit different.
    1) Obama is black, and had to deal with racism his whole life.
    2) Obama didnt insult all minorities, muslims, and mexicans
    3) huffington Post didn't publish a detailed article with 13 examples of why Obama is racist
    4)  King didn't come out supporting Trump with his comments like he did today. 
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • @WhyTrump ;

    1) True Obama had to deal with racism like all people do, but he decided to deal with it by being racist against white people, as my link points out.

    2) Trump didn't insult all minorities, Muslims, and Mexicans either

    3) HuffPo is about as biased a source as can be found on the internet. Your link is nothing more than a political hit piece made up of distortions and unverifiable accounts.  Of course HuffPo wouldn't do anything to undermine their guy, in fact they went out of their way to excuse almost all of Obama's many faults.  That doesn't mean that examples of Obama's racism don't exist, as my link makes clear.

    4) I have no idea what you are referring to, you'll have to be more specific.

  • @CYDdharta

    4) Nevermind, I just found the thread.  There is no relation to this thread, however; Trump's name wasn't even mentioned in the article referenced.

  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 140 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @CYDdharta ;
    1) that is very different, but I would say calling Obama racist is a stretch.  Not sure if he loved white people, and he probably was a closet communist, but racist is too far.
    2) whether open, hints, subtle messages, these minority groups got upset by his racially targeted comments. We can argue shade of his racist remarks, in a corporate environment for example someone would send him to HR.
    3) Huff post is anti-Trump, I will give you that one.  However, that doesnt mean all 13 examples are false
    4) king article didn't mention Trump, but that is a good example of Right wing spectrum, and was clearly racist.

    are you arguing that trump supporters are not more likely to be racist, or if not all of them are racist? I would argue that "most" are racist to some level.
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • @WhyTrump

    1) I would say calling Trump a racist is a bridge too far.

    2) Most minority groups, by definition, are racist groups

    3) You are correct, they're not all false, some are simply inconsequential

    4) I disagree, the King article demonstrates nothing more than King's thoughts and beliefs.  Shall we also paint an entire party's beliefs with Sheila Jackson Lee's comments and say half the country doesn't know we haven't landed people on Mars yet, or that the Constitution is over 400 years old


    Undoubtedly there are many more racists, and more active racists on the left than on the right.  The right castigates and disavows their racists, the left embraces them.

  • @WhyTrump , I disagree with you. @CYDdharta  makes good points about unfairly generalizing Trump supporters with good counter-arguments.  I also agree that we can just as easily argue that Obama was racist against white people as per aim.org article he posted  "

    Reason to Hate: Barack Obama’s Racist Roots" 

  • No, Trump supporters are nor racist. Although, they do seem so, they just want what's best for their amazing country and so does our great president, Donald John Trump.
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 140 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @alszeralinter , meaning well for the country isn't mutually exclusive with being a racist.  You will find that many of the Right wight and Trump supporters either condone or fully embrace racial and religious (in case of muslims) discrimination 
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • There are many true racists out there, those are not Teump supporters. Obviously, most people are racist in one way or another. There are hate groups and simply closet racists. Donald Trump appealed to many due to his love for our country. Trump supporters are not racists and neither is Trump.
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • agsragsr 485 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @joecavalry , I agree with you
    Live Long and Prosper
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 140 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    It is curious, that even in Syria, those whom Trump is supposedly helping, are hesitant due to what they percieve as his racist remarks,  it's tought to argue about many of his supporters at a minimum tolerating Trump's racist inclinations 
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • @WhyTrump ; What are "Trump's racist inclinations"?
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 140 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Well @CYDdharta , his immigration ban is widely perceived as Muslim ban for one.  He made many comments about blacks and Mexicans that many take as varying degree of racism . 
    Nytimes had a good article
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/opinion/campaign-stops/the-upside-to-overt-racism.amp.html
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • @WhyTrump ; The New York Times article is a good example of race-baiting rhetoric, but it isn't good for much else; in fact there are NO examples of Trump's "racism" anywhere in the article. 
  • @WhyTrump ; Muslim isn't a race (its a religion), neither is Mexican (its a nationality).  Black is the only thing that approximates a race, and Trump didn't say anything about them that black cultural leaders haven't been saying for decades.  Is Al Sharpton a racist?  Jessie Jackson?
    love2debate
  • I agree with CYDharta. Discrimination against Muslim or Mexicans (even if we admit that Trump discriminated against them, which he didnt) will not be considered racism. Maybe prejudice.
  • VaulkVaulk 198 Pts
    @kakakksa_1911 , So let's start here:
    Trump supporters want to ban muslims and Mexicans due to stereotypes. That's racist.
    Alright, let's break it down.

    1.  Muslim is not a race. 
    Muslim has never been a race, most likely never will be a race. To say that a stereotype of a "Religion" can be "Racist" is to suggest that all people of a particular religion are of one Race.  So, you've suggested that it's possible to be Racist against Muslims so I counter with "What Race are Muslims"?

    2.  Mexican is not a race.
    Mexican is a term that defines human beings who currently hold citizenship in Mexico.  To say that a stereotype of a "Citizenship" can be "Racist" is to suggest that all people of a particular Nationality are of one Race.  You've suggested that it's possible to be racist against Mexicans, so I counter with "What Race are Mexicans"?

    I look forward to your response.

    @ale5 ,

    ale5 said:
    All of you Trump supporters who say that You are not racists: lets be honest, it is clearly targeting muslims. Maybe it makes you feel better about yourselves that you are not racists, but if you turn off the lights and no one is watching, you can admit it to yourself. I believe bulk of Trump supporters are in fact racists whether they admit it or not publically to themselves. Just being honest...
    I respect your opinion on this matter however, I can't get behind your logic.  What does Religion have to do with Race?  I'm no scholar here but I can logically deduce the following:

    1.  A racist is: A person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racist

    2.  Since a Muslims is a person who practices Islam in some way, shape or form...then in order to be considered a Racist for targeting Muslims then all Muslims must be one Race.

    See the issue here?  Calling something "Racist" when it's not even possible that it could be slightly Racist is the problem.  The mainstream media has been feeding this stuff to people for so long that a good portion of our American Citizens have started buying into it.  Calling people Nazis for disliking something that's cultural, calling people Racist for not being accepting of a person's religion or ideas...these are becoming normal things in our society.

    ~~~~This is not Racism~~~~ and any attempt to shrug it off like it's no big deal to improperly label something one of the worst terms in history is how most people respond:

    "Oh well so it's not "Technically" racist but it's definitely not nice". ~ This is how people defend themselves for improperly calling someone a "Racist".  Would you use the word "Genocide" to describe a single murder?  Would you use the word "Furious" to describe someone who was "Annoyed" with something you said?  Of course not...but for some reason it's perfectly acceptable and defensible to call someone a "Racist" when their attitude is bias at best and has nothing to do with Race.



    agsrale5islander507
  • agsragsr 485 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Vaulk, that is a great expanation. Video is also a great supporting source.
    You articulated the point so well. That is a common misconception , that is simply incorrect.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • ale5ale5 126 PtsPremium Member
    edited May 19 Premium Member
    @Vaulk, although I am still strongly against what Trump is doing regarding foreigners, I have to say that I now have a different perspective after reviewing your argument. I now understand that we shouldn't say that Trump supporters are racists.  I get your point about latinos and Muslims not being a race. That is not accurate.  So I concede.  I also just signed up for the Premium membership to support DebateIsland, and you get my very first persuaded badge.  Great debate! Very impressive.
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • VaulkVaulk 198 Pts
    @ale5, I honestly can't express how much we need more people like you, the mainstream media is mostly to blame for the misnomers flying around today.  It's so easy to get behind "That's Racist" because the word is so serious, it's a huge deal to be labeled a Racist and it can really damage your image.  I hope to see a movement in the future that will hold the media accountable for using "Racism" and "Racist" as labels when there's clearly no evidence of either.

    I don't like Trump, everyone can agree that he's...not a very well spoken individual and most likely engages his Mouth long before he engages his brain.  Is he harsh, yes.  Is he abrasive, yep.  Is he inappropriate, you bet.  Racist though...no I'm afraid not.
    melanielustislander507
  • LogicLogic 215 Pts
    In some cases yes, In some no.    Some people follow him for the banning of muslims, and so on so forth, Some follow him because he  is a great business man, economy fixing, etc. But truly, this year had no good candidates.  One psycho woman, A liar, A racist. We can go on all day i suppose. 
  • VaulkVaulk 198 Pts
    @Logic,

    Read above, we somewhat squashed the "Racist" thing.
    islander507
  • LogicLogic 215 Pts
    @Vaulk  When was the last time the KKK had a rally before tump?  They got lots more active after trump came along, And they support him.
  • VaulkVaulk 198 Pts
    edited May 22
    @Logic,

    I'm not sure about the KKK's rally calendar but I also don't see any relevance of their Rally dates to the Presidential election.  Granted the KKK could easily be upping their Rallies but to suggest that a group's organized meetings are a direct result of the election of a U.S. President will require much more evidence than the existence of activity in a particular group.

    I haven't personally seen any evidence of Racism from our current President and would challenge any and all contrary opinion holders to bring forth said evidence.
    agsr
  • agsragsr 485 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    As @Vaulk said, just because KKK support Trump, that is not evidence of him being a racist.  He also made an amazing argument that discrimination against muslims and latinos is not racism either (even if proven).  @Logic, I would say innocent until proven guilty as far as Racism.
    Vaulk
    Live Long and Prosper
  • LogicLogic 215 Pts
    @Vaulk  I'm a muslim, and trump banned some dangerous countries, And i'm totally fine with that. What i'm NOT at all fine with, is the fact tthat he banned some of tthe least dangerous countries, AND LEFT SAUDI ARABIA.  Trump is cutting off ties withy any country that can't bring in business.  He kept the most country that has brought terrorists, and left the ones that had none or a few.
    melanielust
  • VaulkVaulk 198 Pts
    edited May 23
    @Logic, I understand your point.  Again though, how is that racist?  If you're admitting openly that Trump is allowing some Muslims in but not others and the some he is letting in are from more dangerous places with more extremists than the ones he's keeping out...then you're essentially saying that this has nothing to do with Race and instead it's politically motivated...which wouldn't be an issue of racism.
  • @Vaulk I agree - I don't like Trump's ban, but it wasn't on a race or a religion, it was on countries, so that doesn't make the action racist. And if someone supports it, it doesn't make them racist.

    Ultimately, no one is racist unless they truly believe a group to be inferior. That has nothing to do with their political affiliation, or whether you support or at against certain political actions.
    VaulkSuperSith89
  • @Vaulk, excellent point regarding racist needed to be a race specific term.
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