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The earth is flat

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Status: Open Debate


Arguments

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    Logic said:
    Question: Flat earthers believe there is a big ice wall surrounding the world, How come we haven't found it? And how thick is this ''Flat earth.''
    Both at unfortunately unanswerable questions.

    Antarctica, the outer boundaries of the place we live is off limits pretty much to the public. The antarctic treaty and all..  Sure, there are pictures that come up on a Google image search, but I think you know my position on unverifiable imagery...

    http://bfy.tw/BO2x

    We've only dug about 8 miles deep. So I can't speculate how "thick" the earth is either, sorry.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • The Earth is flat. Unless you are walking up a mountain.
    And of course walking down the other side of the mountain.
    If you cannot see beyond the end of your nose, then the Earth will always appear to be flat.
    joecavalry
  • joecavalryjoecavalry 237 Pts
    @Fredsnephew , if you really bringing up mountains, why do people see the earth as circular when they are ina peak of a very large mountain like Mount Everest?
    Erfisflat
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • @Erfisflat, if earth is flat how come when We fly from US East coast to Asia the plane actually gets us back returning through west coast of US?
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    @Fredsnephew , if you really bringing up mountains, why do people see the earth as circular when they are ina peak of a very large mountain like Mount Everest?

    They don't, you can't see the curvature from a mountain, nor a plane. There isn't any.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    WhyTrump said:
    @Erfisflat, if earth is flat how come when We fly from US East coast to Asia the plane actually gets us back returning through west coast of US?
    I've answered this before, so I'll just copy paste it.  In the flat earth model, the north pole is the middle of a circle, with south all straight lines away from there. East and west are only relative. So circumnavigation is entirely possible on a flat earth. On a ball earth however, pilots get to a certain altitude and LEVEL out. On a ball they would fly out in space...
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • @Erfisflat, wouldn't polar route disprove the flat earth theory then?  How would you defend against it?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_route
    Erfisflat
    Live Long and Prosper
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    edited June 5
    @agsr I would say that these flights are rare, often cancelled, or rerouted. I for one am not in the southern hemisphere to verify they exist at all, but i have tried to book them. Then I would say the map could be wrong, I didn't make it, it was given to me. I personally have measured the lake close to my house and it is perfectly flat on a calm day, this is something most people can confirm. 


    With the curvature calculator found here: https://dizzib.github.io/ you can see that an observer at 1000 feet looking at an item 163 miles away would find that object 10,631 feet below the horizon. This would place the peak of Canigou well over 1000 feet below the horizon however not only it, but other peaks near it are clearly seen. In the videos below you will see several, sometimes 6 or 7 noticeable and very clear distinct mountain peaks. Even peaks 4000 feet high can be seen and this peak should be over a mile below the horizon.





    http://canigou.allauch.free.fr/index.html
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • I'm a creationist and I still think the flat earth theory is a bunch of junk.  Your only evidence is speculation.  
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    @SuperSith89

    My evidence is logical and scientifically sound. I've yet to see the same verifiable evidence for a globe earth. So far there's zero. Whether it's 30 miles, 


    60 miles

     Or more


    The math is not wrong. It's not speculation to state facts. Water is Flat. No curvature has been found. Anywhere. 


    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • If the earth is flat, then what is on the other side?
    Have any "flat earthers" seen the other side?
    How thick is the flat earth?
    What keeps water from spilling over the edges?
    If you fly to the edge of the flat earth and keep going, What happens then?
    Are all celestial bodies flat?
    If so, why do we always see the flat side and not the edge?
    Presumably if we viewed the edge, celestial bodies would appear as an elongated cuboid.
    Coveny
  • @Erfisflat, a few followup questions:
    1) if you could get on that flight via North Pole, would that provide you sufficient evidence that flat earth theory is wrong?
    2) would watching commercial flights on flight tracker go through North Pole be proof enough? Or would you argue that it is staged?


    Live Long and Prosper
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    agsr said:
    @Erfisflat, a few followup questions:
    1) if you could get on that flight via North Pole, would that provide you sufficient evidence that flat earth theory is wrong?
    2) would watching commercial flights on flight tracker go through North Pole be proof enough? Or would you argue that it is staged?


    northern polar flights at perfectly compatible with the flat earth model. 



    It's the supposed southern polar flights that I'm skeptical of.



    These southern hemisphere flights usually take the path expected on the flat earth map.




    The GPS is turned off during those flights, so I'd need to take a compass.



    Even if all this happened,  it doesn't prove curvature, it just proves the map is wrong. When you've measured the lack of curvature that must be there, you then can KNOW that water is flat, that's where the real argument is, and that's where the flat earth beats everytime. Do the experiment and see for yourself. 

    https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/nikon-coolpix-p900
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    edited June 8
    If the earth is flat, then what is on the other side?
    Have any "flat earthers" seen the other side?
    How thick is the flat earth?
    What keeps water from spilling over the edges?
    If you fly to the edge of the flat earth and keep going, What happens then?
    Are all celestial bodies flat?
    If so, why do we always see the flat side and not the edge?
    Presumably if we viewed the edge, celestial bodies would appear as an elongated cuboid.
    Ah I knew somebody would eventually drill me about the edge. I did find a rare picture of the edge, just for you.

    https://www.sonicscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/edge1_two.jpg

    In all seriousness, there may not be an edge. The outskirts of Antarctica is as far as any citizen is allowed to freely explore. Nobody can. It may be an infinite plane as suggested by this Buddhist map from 1,000 A.D.


    Celestial bodies at just points of light in the sky. NASA gives us CGI to make us think they are terra firma, but everyone should know how I feel about that.


    marijuansSilverishGoldNova
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • @Erfisflat , here she my question? How would airplanes or people travel in both directions a round the world if it's flat? IF you want to make a trip from Antarctica to NY, but go through the other side of the the world which they do know, you can't do that with a flat.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    @marijuans
    I'm not sure what you mean. Source? 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    Since no one has brought it up, I'll do the honors. Scientism claim: A lunar eclipse occurs when the Moon passes directly behind the Earth into its umbra. This can occur only when the sun, Earth, and moon are aligned exactly, or very closely so, with the Earth in the middle.


    While this would indeed suggest a spherical earth, I turns out to be another red herring. First, this quote for Samuel Rowbotham:

    " that an eclipse of the moon arises from a shadow of the earth, is a statement in every respect, because unproved, unsatisfactory. The earth has been proved to be without orbital or axial motion; and, therefore, it could never come between the sun and the moon. The earth is also proved to be a plane, always underneath the sun and moon; and, therefore, to speak of its intercepting the light of the sun, and thus casting its own shadow on the moon, is to say that which is physically impossible.

    Besides the above difficulties or incompatibilities, many cases are on record of the sun and moon being eclipsed when both were above the horizon. The sun, the earth, and the moon, not in a straight line, but the earth below the sun and moon--out of the reach or direction of both--and yet a lunar eclipse has occurred! Is it possible that a "shadow" of the earth could be thrown upon the moon, when sun, earth, and moon, were not in the same line? "

    One such occurrence of this phenomenon, since labelled a selenelion was recorded, and can be reviewed here:


    This completely refutes this "evidence" for a spherical earth, if you have some common sense and knowledge of basic geometry. 


    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    I'll explain any more concerns related to that popsci article that keeps coming up in the Google search.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    Ball earth evidence that isn't pseudoscience or other logical fallacy so far: 0

    Flat earth: I lost count, how many?
    SilverishGoldNova
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • I am correct in assuming you believe in creation, yes?  Well I am sure you know of Answers In Genesis.  Very popular website filled with well written articles by creationists.  I found this on there to prove the Bible does not prove a flat Earth. https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/does-bible-teach-earth-flat/

    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    edited June 7
    I am correct in assuming you believe in creation, yes?  Well I am sure you know of Answers In Genesis.  Very popular website filled with well written articles by creationists.  I found this on there to prove the Bible does not prove a flat Earth. https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/does-bible-teach-earth-flat/

    I mean, I've already given you a rebuttal to that, any talking points you'd like to discuss? I think most Biblical creationists are forcing interpretations to conform to popular consensus. I don't understand how one can misinterpret verses like:

    1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

    Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm …”

    Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable …”

    Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

    Isaiah 45:18: “…who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast…”


    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • @Erfisflat, I have do say that while I dont agree with Earth being flat I really think you are doing a great job defending this position and the material is really entertaining.  
    Bottom line is that if we can argue that there is a mass conspiracy theory that staged space exploration then no one can prove that earth is not flat.
    Erfisflat
    Live Long and Prosper
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    @agsr

    Thanks for the kind words, could you please elaborate on the last statement you made?
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

  • Hi @Erfisflat, sure. I guess the point I am trying to make is that if you will assert that space is fake in a mass conspiracy theory, despite imagery and other traditionally established evidence then I cannot see how someone can fully disprove your theory.  It becomes a question of who has a burden of proof.
    again, I really enjoy this topic as it certainly challenged my thinking and taught me to question what we take for granted.  I am still very much of believe that earth is round, but your arguments are excellent.
    Erfisflat
    Live Long and Prosper
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 753 Pts
    @agsr

    I'm glad to hear that, I hope you'll keep your mind open about this and any other ideas you may have dismissed before. Keep in mind that I am I no way trying to tell you what to think, that was what the public indoctrination system is for, I'm only here to show people how to think, encourage more of it, and urge people to not just accept what you're told, research all opposition and make an unbiased, informed decision. 

    There are a few things that would prove to me the earth was a ball.

    1. Let us see it ourselves! 
     
    If Buzz and company actually went to the Moon almost 50 years ago, there should be no problem getting a few regular citizens, ( ones that haven't swore an oath to Big Brother) at least to the ISS.  with the technological advancements over the last 50 years hell we should have McDonald's on the Moon by now.

    2. Put a live Cam on the moon!

    NASA steals over 50 million dollars a day. A decent live Cam on the moon (it shouldn't be hard, the same side faces us the whole time) available to all taxpayers. You know, one good enough to pick up a magnesium flare.

    3. A 360 degree camera pan

    This is pretty self explanatory for anyone with knowledge about movies, TV and 4th wall mechanics.

    4. Air lock bay footage

    One of the most exciting moments in those space movies is when they open the airlock hatch.  NASA has never given us footage of somebody suiting up, going into the airlock hatch, depressurizing and opening the door to space.

    I'm sure I could think of more, but the wife is bugging out, tomorrow is trash day. :/
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

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