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The eclipse debunks the globe/heliocentric model of the universe.

Debate Information

Many people watched the eclipse. I watched it without the NASA specs. It has been my suspicion that the whole "don't look at the eclipse" thing was a bit overrated and i was right. I still have great vision. Anyway, the moon, or whatever blocked the light of the sun, moved from a northwesterly path and crossed towards the southeast. We observe the moon moving in the same path as the sun overhead, from east to west. The heliocentric model has changed the moon's direction to the opposite of what we see it traveling to get the earth spinning, and try and get the eclipses right, while keeping the sun still. It takes around 30 days for the moon to orbit the earth in the heliocentric model. So why does the moon's shadow (totality) move across the United States in a matter of hours from northwest to southeast? 



I asked timeanddate.com because they usually have things like this correct, but their animations, like the one above, show the earth spinning in the opposite direction. Does this debunk the heliocentric model? Final nail in the coffin?

https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21
(Scroll down to eclipse animation)


SilverishGoldNovajoecavalrykmelkevolution17northsouthkorea
  1. Live Poll

    Does the eclipse debunk heliocentricity?

    12 votes
    1. Yes, that does not match reality.
      16.67%
    2. But... magic!
      83.33%
Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

Wayne Dyer
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  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 1201 Pts   -   edited March 2018
    ggggg
    ErfisflatWoodenWood
    I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)
  • joecavalryjoecavalry 430 Pts   -  
    That is the proper way for the Earth to move. The solar eclipse would be starting at the west coast and going to the East coast.
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    That is the proper way for the Earth to move. The solar eclipse would be starting at the west coast and going to the East coast.
    Maybe you can elaborate. 

    "The solar eclipse would be starting at the west coast and going to the East coast."

    We see the sun and moon rise in the east and set in the west. This is supposedly due to the earth rotation  (which nobody ever proved). Why would the shadow of the moon be any different?
    kmelkevolution17
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • The Earth may not be able to rotate if the Earth would be flat.

    The eclipse may have proved that the Earth is not flat, because of the rotation.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    The Earth may not be able to rotate if the Earth would be flat.

    The eclipse may have proved that the Earth is not flat, because of the rotation.
    The earth doesn't move. The eclipse only proved that the sun was blocked by something. The "scientific" explanation for the eclipse and what we saw contradict each other.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • AlwaysCorrectAlwaysCorrect 279 Pts   -  
    This is really dumb as a bag of rocks.

    The OP claims you have studied the shape of the earth for years, but is apparently you are unaware of the answer to questions you could google in 10 seconds or would understand intuitively if they considered that it's not just a case of what direction the moon orbits but what direction the Earth rotates.

    The eclipse is proof of a round earth, as if more proof was needed. The basis of the scientific method is you make testable predictions based on the theory behind a subject. This eclipse wasn't a surprise to us all, we knew about it in advance. This is because based on their knowledge of physics and orbital mechanics, scientists predicted the eclipse would happen. It happened exactly as they predicted, including the direction that the shadow would travel. The validated prediction is therefore yet another confirmation of a round earth.

    Have flat earth theorists ever been able to make such calculations? No, if they want to find out when an eclipse is they have to look at a calendar based on the normal understanding of planetary physics just like the rest of us.
    ErfisflatSilverishGoldNova
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    " if they considered that it's not just a case of what direction the moon orbits but what direction the Earth rotates."

    Both direction are considered in the op.

    "This is because based on their knowledge of physics and orbital mechanics, scientists predicted the eclipse would happen."

    The ancient Egyptians were avid flat earthers, as were the Mayans, both civilizations predicted eclipses. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • AlwaysCorrectAlwaysCorrect 279 Pts   -   edited August 2017
    @AlwaysCorrect

    "Both direction are considered in the op."

    But not considered very well, as shown. If you have to ask basic questions about how the normal model of celestial bodies works, how can you possibly be trusted to criticise such a system?

    "The ancient Egyptians were avid flat earthers, as were the Mayans, both civilizations predicted eclipses. "

    They could only predict lunar eclipses with relative accuracy, not solar eclipses, and the famed ancient astrologers like Ptolemy believed in a round earth and put forth evidence to support their arguments even ~2000 years ago. We know little about the actual beliefs of the Mayas as many of their records were destroyed.

    Erfisflat said:


    Knowing the actual physics of how it works, modern scientists aren't just looking at the historical record and making a guess as to when an eclipse will happen (which is basically how it worked in antiquity). They are able to accurately predict the exact time, date and path of the eclipse. They were completely correct. Just as they were correct about the eclipse ebfore that and the eclipse before that and the eclipse before that. Why it seems that modern astronomy continually makes accurate predictions! Not only that but their predictions are based upon a round earth. If the Earth isn't round, how come their calculations are right? Surely if you are right they would make fools of themselves by continually predicting things wrong.

    On the other hand, tell me, have believers in a flat earth model ever even once managed to make such a successful prediction of when a solar eclipse will based on their model of how planets, the sun and other celestial bodies work? No, because the normal model of planetary bodies is based in actual science and meets standards of scientific test ability while a flat earth is an insane belief held by a few uneducated people on the internet that would completely fail such a test.
    northsouthkorea
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    I don't believe for one minute anyone actually thinks that the Earth is flat.
    Nonetheless, The flat Earth debates are great fun.
    So keep up the good work you flat earthers.
    northsouthkoreaErfisflat
  • northsouthkoreanorthsouthkorea 221 Pts   -  
    @alwayscorrect, I agree with your argument.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -   edited August 2017

    @AlwaysCorrect
    "But not considered very well, as shown. If you have to ask basic questions about how the normal model of celestial bodies works, how can you possibly be trusted to criticise such a system?"

    I know how the heliocentric model works. We all observe the moon moving from east to west, except for during the eclipse, when it was supposedly seen moving across a supposedly stationary sun from nw to se. If you're going to defend the model, at least give a proper explanation for your position not some vague reference to the earth's spin. The link you provided states:

    "Because the Moon moves to the east in its orbit at about 3,400 km/hour. Earth rotates to the east at 1,670 km/hr at the equator, so the lunar shadow moves to the east at 3,400 – 1,670 = 1,730 km/hr near the equator. You cannot keep up with the shadow of the eclipse unless you traveled at Mach 1.5."

    If the moon moves towards the east faster than the earth's spin, we'd see it rise in the east and set in the west, closer to what the shadow did, but as anyone with eyes can see, the shadow of the moon went the opposite direction. 

    "They could only predict lunar eclipses with relative accuracy, not solar eclipses, "

    http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/17/university-of-colorado-mayans-solar-eclipse-history/

    "Ancient civilizations tracked solar eclipses, too — although their calculations were done without the benefit of today’s scientific equipment."

    This contradicts your claim that 

    "This is because based on their knowledge of physics and orbital mechanics"

    "Every century of recording, they would get more accurate,” Sheets said. “The prediction would be more precise.”"

    "Using the hundreds-of-years-old codex, (not "their knowledge of physics and orbital mechanics") the Brickers predicted in 1983 that the next solar eclipse in the Mayan area, which includes modern-day Guatemala, Belize and parts of Mexico, Honduras and El Salvador, would take place on July 11, 1991. And they were right."

    This proves that eclipses can be accurately predicted using records of former eclipses, contradicting your claim. Not to even mention that they predicted solar and lunar eclipses, despite your claim. The Mayans were flat earthers.

    "Ptolemy believed in a round earth and put forth evidence to support their arguments even ~2000 years ago"

    Flat earth is just a side not here, the heliocentric model is in question, and Ptolemy was a geocentrist, as was Aristotle. So even he predicted eclipses assuming the earth was the center of the universe instead of the sun -2000 years ago.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • AlwaysCorrectAlwaysCorrect 279 Pts   -  
    @Erfisflat

    "I know how the heliocentric model works. We all observe the moon moving from east to west, except for during the eclipse, when it was supposedly seen moving across a supposedly stationary sun from nw to se. If you're going to defend the model, at least give a proper explanation for your position not some vague reference to the earth's spin. The link you provided states:"

    You obviously don't know how it works because it has been explained to you, including with links, and you can't offer any actual criticism of the method beyond it personally not making sense to you.

     The moon does not move from east to west as you claim. It actually moves to the west like so:



    That this happens is again very basic science. The fact that you think physics says otherwise shows your utter ignorance.

    From our perspective it appears to move to the east because it takes the moon a lot longer to orbit the earth (30 days) than it does for the earth to perform one rotation (1 day). Despite the fact the moon actually moves faster, it has to cover a much wider distance than the earth's circumference before it complete an orbit. This isn't the movement of the moon though, this is the rotation of the earth that causes this effect. For which side the moon rises it's specific speed doesn't matter. What matters is whether it can complete an orbit faster than the earth can complete a rotation. See below for an example of distances travelled in one day:




    However in the event of an eclipse and the direction the shadow travels, we don't care about the time it for the moon to rotate around the earth and the specific speed of the moon DOES matter. What matters is how fast it moves through the small amount of space where it causes an eclipse and whether that speed is faster than the earth rotates. It moves faster, so the shadow moves from west to east.



    I've just put these together in 2 minutes because you don't seem to be able to conceptualise how shadows work. Hopefully these help, but if they don't then so far the issue is with you. Besides complaining, whining and making laughably incorrect claims about what the scientific understanding says like getting the direction the moon orbits wrong you haven't actualyl shwon any issues with the scientific theory.

    "If the moon moves towards the east faster than the earth's spin, we'd see it rise in the east and set in the west, closer to what the shadow did, but as anyone with eyes can see, the shadow of the moon went the opposite direction. "

    Lol, we would if the moon's orbit was literally rolling along the top of the earth and crushing us all to death. The Moon orbtis earth at hundreds of kilometres and so has much further to travel to complete an orbit than the earth has to complete a rotation, so even though it travels faster by the time the earth has completed one rotation the moon has still oly completed a fraction of it's orbit. The moon settign and rising is caused by rotation of the earth.

    Here's a thought experiment for you. Two athletes are running and running on an atheletics tracks, one on the outermost track and one on the innermost track. The one on the outermost track is slightly faster, but not enough to compensate for the face you have to run further on the outermost track:




    Q1) If the runner on the innermost track stood still, what side of his vision would the runner on the outermost track enter and which side of his vision would he leave?

    Q2) Remembering that due to the smaller distance needed to reach a lap he will perform each lap faster, if the runner on the innermost track was running, what side of his vision would the runner on the innermost track enter and which side would he leave?


    "http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/17/university-of-colorado-mayans-solar-eclipse-history/"

    If you read their actual work, the best that could be said of the Mayans is that their predictions were out by days and they could only get this vaguely accurate guesstimates by making incorrect predictions and then factoring their errors in when they tried again. They used pattern recognition to a decent level, but there is nothing to suggest they understood the mechanics behind it.

    I'll ask again, if the earth isn't a globe and the moon isn't another globe that orbits us at the distance specified by conventional science - why do equations based on these details continually provide 100% correct predictions down to the minute and the exact path that will be travelled by an Eclipse?

    "This proves that eclipses can be accurately predicted using records of former eclipses, contradicting your claim. Not to even mention that they predicted solar and lunar eclipses, despite your claim. The Mayans were flat earthers."

    The method involved to get an accurate eclipse involved making incorrect guesses and then correcting for them, validating my claim. The Mayans did not understand the mechanics of the soon and moon, they were just undertaking advanced (for the time) pattern recognition.

    "Flat earth is just a side not here, the heliocentric model is in question, and Ptolemy was a geocentrist, as was Aristotle. So even he predicted eclipses assuming the earth was the center of the universe instead of the sun -2000 years ago."

    You tried to claim the Egyptians believed in a Flat Earth. I provided evidence your claim was wrong.

    DO you believe that the universe is geocentric? If not then this also discounts your whole basis of relying on the random claims of 2000 year philosophers without looking at the evidence.


    "Anyone can predict an eclipse.

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-to-predict-eclipse-computer-math-antikythera.amp"

    Thanks for conceding that the earth is a sphere and that you were wrong all along.

    From your article:

    "Professor of the History of the Exact Sciences in Antiquity at New York University, says the math is not necessarily that hard, but there’s a lot of it. “It doesn’t take anything that’s much more advanced than, say, grade school mathematics to do,” he says, “but it would take you working with pencil and paper probably a couple of hours to do a complete calculation.”

    You really need to know that the Earth is round, and you need to know where you are on that spherical Earth, because the shadow of the Moon is such a small area,” "

    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -   edited August 2017
    @AlwaysCorrect

    "You obviously don't know how it works because it has been explained to you, including with links, and you can't offer any actual criticism of the method beyond it personally not making sense to you."

    I have explained in detail what the heliocentric model says happens in the op. There is a huge discrepancy that was pointed out in that explanation that you dismissed with nothing more than a (paraphrasing) "you're ignorant, it's because of the spin" in the first response. Getting you to explain your position was like pulling teeth, and before I even read, I see you are overcompensating. So instead of another nuh-uh, muh science book, (insert NASA indoctrination pamphlet here) you offer a rebuttal.

    "The moon does not move from east to west as you claim. It actually moves to the west like so:"



    So, according to you, the moon does not move to the west, it moves to the west, and what I claim is what actually happens, but not really. You follow this up with saying I don't understand physics and science??? It's going to be hard, but I'll continue with reluctance. Trying to hold conversations with globetards can be a daunting task sometimes. 

    "(The moon) appears to move to the east"

    I see the moon move to the west, following the sun. Your model has reversed it's motion, and spun the earth to make it appear as it is going from east to west, as everyone sees it. You've contradicted yourself, now contradicting reality. 

    "it takes the moon a lot longer to orbit the earth (30 days) than it does for the earth to perform one rotation (1 day)."

    You could have copy and pasted the op, aside from you getting the directions all wrong of course.  :D8 I'm still trying to sort through this debate you call a rebuttal, but does this accurately explain your position thus far?
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    @AlwaysCorrect
    take your time, I'll be here
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:

    An eclipse does not need to be predicted.
    An eclipse can be accurately calculated.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:

    An eclipse does not need to be predicted.
    An eclipse can be accurately calculated.
    Accurately calculate the next on then. Show your math.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:

    An eclipse does not need to be predicted.
    An eclipse can be accurately calculated.
    While you're at it, the balls in your court on "why it goes dark at night"
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    Many people watched the eclipse. I watched it without the NASA specs. It has been my suspicion that the whole "don't look at the eclipse" thing was a bit overrated and i was right. I still have great vision. Anyway, the moon, or whatever blocked the light of the sun, moved from a northwesterly path and crossed towards the southeast. We observe the moon moving in the same path as the sun overhead, from east to west. The heliocentric model has changed the moon's direction to the opposite of what we see it traveling to get the earth spinning, and try and get the eclipses right, while keeping the sun still. It takes around 30 days for the moon to orbit the earth in the heliocentric model. So why does the moon's shadow (totality) move across the United States in a matter of hours from northwest to southeast? 



    I asked timeanddate.com because they usually have things like this correct, but their animations, like the one above, show the earth spinning in the opposite direction. Does this debunk the heliocentric model? Final nail in the coffin?

    https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21
    (Scroll down to eclipse animation)



    Erfisflat said:
    Many people watched the eclipse. I watched it without the NASA specs. It has been my suspicion that the whole "don't look at the eclipse" thing was a bit overrated and i was right. I still have great vision. Anyway, the moon, or whatever blocked the light of the sun, moved from a northwesterly path and crossed towards the southeast. We observe the moon moving in the same path as the sun overhead, from east to west. The heliocentric model has changed the moon's direction to the opposite of what we see it traveling to get the earth spinning, and try and get the eclipses right, while keeping the sun still. It takes around 30 days for the moon to orbit the earth in the heliocentric model. So why does the moon's shadow (totality) move across the United States in a matter of hours from northwest to southeast? 



    I asked timeanddate.com because they usually have things like this correct, but their animations, like the one above, show the earth spinning in the opposite direction. Does this debunk the heliocentric model? Final nail in the coffin?

    https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21
    (Scroll down to eclipse animation)



    I see you readily use the terms North, South, East and West.
    Where exactly would North, South, East and West be on a flat Earth?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    Many people watched the eclipse. I watched it without the NASA specs. It has been my suspicion that the whole "don't look at the eclipse" thing was a bit overrated and i was right. I still have great vision. Anyway, the moon, or whatever blocked the light of the sun, moved from a northwesterly path and crossed towards the southeast. We observe the moon moving in the same path as the sun overhead, from east to west. The heliocentric model has changed the moon's direction to the opposite of what we see it traveling to get the earth spinning, and try and get the eclipses right, while keeping the sun still. It takes around 30 days for the moon to orbit the earth in the heliocentric model. So why does the moon's shadow (totality) move across the United States in a matter of hours from northwest to southeast? 



    I asked timeanddate.com because they usually have things like this correct, but their animations, like the one above, show the earth spinning in the opposite direction. Does this debunk the heliocentric model? Final nail in the coffin?

    https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21
    (Scroll down to eclipse animation)



    Erfisflat said:
    Many people watched the eclipse. I watched it without the NASA specs. It has been my suspicion that the whole "don't look at the eclipse" thing was a bit overrated and i was right. I still have great vision. Anyway, the moon, or whatever blocked the light of the sun, moved from a northwesterly path and crossed towards the southeast. We observe the moon moving in the same path as the sun overhead, from east to west. The heliocentric model has changed the moon's direction to the opposite of what we see it traveling to get the earth spinning, and try and get the eclipses right, while keeping the sun still. It takes around 30 days for the moon to orbit the earth in the heliocentric model. So why does the moon's shadow (totality) move across the United States in a matter of hours from northwest to southeast? 



    I asked timeanddate.com because they usually have things like this correct, but their animations, like the one above, show the earth spinning in the opposite direction. Does this debunk the heliocentric model? Final nail in the coffin?

    https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21
    (Scroll down to eclipse animation)



    I see you readily use the terms North, South, East and West.
    Where exactly would North, South, East and West be on a flat Earth?
    North is middle, the north pole. South is any straight line away from there, and east and west are only relative, being circles clockwise and counterclockwise around the pole.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    Erfisflat said:

    An eclipse does not need to be predicted.
    An eclipse can be accurately calculated.
    Accurately calculate the next on then. Show your math.

    There will be a total lunar eclipse on 31st Jan 2018.
    Didn't need to do any mathematics, as all eclipses for the next ten years are listed on line.
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    Erfisflat said:

    An eclipse does not need to be predicted.
    An eclipse can be accurately calculated.
    Accurately calculate the next on then. Show your math.

    There will be a total lunar eclipse on 31st Jan 2018.
    Didn't need to do any mathematics, as all eclipses for the next ten years are listed on line.
    So you can't accurately calculate the next eclipse. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    Erfisflat said:
    Erfisflat said:

    An eclipse does not need to be predicted.
    An eclipse can be accurately calculated.
    Accurately calculate the next on then. Show your math.

    There will be a total lunar eclipse on 31st Jan 2018.
    Didn't need to do any mathematics, as all eclipses for the next ten years are listed on line.
    So you can't accurately calculate the next eclipse. 

    I can't. But other people can.
    Just like, you can't calculate the altitude of the sun, but other people can.
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    Erfisflat said:
    Many people watched the eclipse. I watched it without the NASA specs. It has been my suspicion that the whole "don't look at the eclipse" thing was a bit overrated and i was right. I still have great vision. Anyway, the moon, or whatever blocked the light of the sun, moved from a northwesterly path and crossed towards the southeast. We observe the moon moving in the same path as the sun overhead, from east to west. The heliocentric model has changed the moon's direction to the opposite of what we see it traveling to get the earth spinning, and try and get the eclipses right, while keeping the sun still. It takes around 30 days for the moon to orbit the earth in the heliocentric model. So why does the moon's shadow (totality) move across the United States in a matter of hours from northwest to southeast? 



    I asked timeanddate.com because they usually have things like this correct, but their animations, like the one above, show the earth spinning in the opposite direction. Does this debunk the heliocentric model? Final nail in the coffin?

    https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21
    (Scroll down to eclipse animation)



    Erfisflat said:
    Many people watched the eclipse. I watched it without the NASA specs. It has been my suspicion that the whole "don't look at the eclipse" thing was a bit overrated and i was right. I still have great vision. Anyway, the moon, or whatever blocked the light of the sun, moved from a northwesterly path and crossed towards the southeast. We observe the moon moving in the same path as the sun overhead, from east to west. The heliocentric model has changed the moon's direction to the opposite of what we see it traveling to get the earth spinning, and try and get the eclipses right, while keeping the sun still. It takes around 30 days for the moon to orbit the earth in the heliocentric model. So why does the moon's shadow (totality) move across the United States in a matter of hours from northwest to southeast? 



    I asked timeanddate.com because they usually have things like this correct, but their animations, like the one above, show the earth spinning in the opposite direction. Does this debunk the heliocentric model? Final nail in the coffin?

    https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21
    (Scroll down to eclipse animation)



    I see you readily use the terms North, South, East and West.
    Where exactly would North, South, East and West be on a flat Earth?
    North is middle, the north pole. South is any straight line away from there, and east and west are only relative, being circles clockwise and counterclockwise around the pole.

    Good.
    What this tells me is. Where a definitive answer exists, you are capable of giving a sensible response to my questions. Albeit accompanied with your trademark graphics.
    But of course what this also tells me, is that you do not have sensible answers to simple, fundamental flat Earth enquiries. 
    Such as. Why does it go dark at night?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -   edited August 2017
    Erfisflat said:
    Erfisflat said:
    Many people watched the eclipse. I watched it without the NASA specs. It has been my suspicion that the whole "don't look at the eclipse" thing was a bit overrated and i was right. I still have great vision. Anyway, the moon, or whatever blocked the light of the sun, moved from a northwesterly path and crossed towards the southeast. We observe the moon moving in the same path as the sun overhead, from east to west. The heliocentric model has changed the moon's direction to the opposite of what we see it traveling to get the earth spinning, and try and get the eclipses right, while keeping the sun still. It takes around 30 days for the moon to orbit the earth in the heliocentric model. So why does the moon's shadow (totality) move across the United States in a matter of hours from northwest to southeast? 



    I asked timeanddate.com because they usually have things like this correct, but their animations, like the one above, show the earth spinning in the opposite direction. Does this debunk the heliocentric model? Final nail in the coffin?

    https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21
    (Scroll down to eclipse animation)



    Erfisflat said:
    Many people watched the eclipse. I watched it without the NASA specs. It has been my suspicion that the whole "don't look at the eclipse" thing was a bit overrated and i was right. I still have great vision. Anyway, the moon, or whatever blocked the light of the sun, moved from a northwesterly path and crossed towards the southeast. We observe the moon moving in the same path as the sun overhead, from east to west. The heliocentric model has changed the moon's direction to the opposite of what we see it traveling to get the earth spinning, and try and get the eclipses right, while keeping the sun still. It takes around 30 days for the moon to orbit the earth in the heliocentric model. So why does the moon's shadow (totality) move across the United States in a matter of hours from northwest to southeast? 



    I asked timeanddate.com because they usually have things like this correct, but their animations, like the one above, show the earth spinning in the opposite direction. Does this debunk the heliocentric model? Final nail in the coffin?

    https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21
    (Scroll down to eclipse animation)



    I see you readily use the terms North, South, East and West.
    Where exactly would North, South, East and West be on a flat Earth?
    North is middle, the north pole. South is any straight line away from there, and east and west are only relative, being circles clockwise and counterclockwise around the pole.

    Good.
    What this tells me is. Where a definitive answer exists, you are capable of giving a sensible response to my questions. Albeit accompanied with your trademark graphics.
    But of course what this also tells me, is that you do not have sensible answers to simple, fundamental flat Earth enquiries. 
    Such as. Why does it go dark at night?
    WOW, the simple answers are all over this website. It's a simple question. I've explained in detail why it goes dark and you turn a blind eye and repeat the question. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    Erfisflat said:
    Erfisflat said:

    An eclipse does not need to be predicted.
    An eclipse can be accurately calculated.
    Accurately calculate the next on then. Show your math.

    There will be a total lunar eclipse on 31st Jan 2018.
    Didn't need to do any mathematics, as all eclipses for the next ten years are listed on line.
    So you can't accurately calculate the next eclipse. 

    I can't. But other people can.
    Just like, you can't calculate the altitude of the sun, but other people can.
    How do you know they don't calculate it based on patterns, then? You dont.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    SilverishGoldNovaPogue
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 1201 Pts   -   edited September 2017
    This is really dumb as a bag of rocks.

    The OP claims you have studied the shape of the earth for years, but is apparently you are unaware of the answer to questions you could google in 10 seconds or would understand intuitively if they considered that it's not just a case of what direction the moon orbits but what direction the Earth rotates.

    The eclipse is proof of a round earth, as if more proof was needed. The basis of the scientific method is you make testable predictions based on the theory behind a subject. This eclipse wasn't a surprise to us all, we knew about it in advance. This is because based on their knowledge of physics and orbital mechanics, scientists predicted the eclipse would happen. It happened exactly as they predicted, including the direction that the shadow would travel. The validated prediction is therefore yet another confirmation of a round earth.

    Have flat earth theorists ever been able to make such calculations? No, if they want to find out when an eclipse is they have to look at a calendar based on the normal understanding of planetary physics just like the rest of us.

    Erfisflat said:


    I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)
  • First off, we need to address the fact that you take into account not only the movement of the earth but also the movement of the moon. As the earth spins in its orbit around the sun, the moon spins in its orbit around the earth.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    First off, we need to address the fact that you take into account not only the movement of the earth but also the movement of the moon. As the earth spins in its orbit around the sun, the moon spins in its orbit around the earth.
    Yes, please address the fact that I took into account not only the movement of the earth but also the movement of the moon. It is in the OP, and doesn't match reality.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • NopeNope 397 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat The moon does not have to move very fast to have a fast moving shadow in the direction in which you see. It is basic physicists. The moon falls between it's shadow and the sun. So if it moves a little it's shadow moves faster. : )
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Nope said:
    Erfisflat The moon does not have to move very fast to have a fast moving shadow in the direction in which you see. It is basic physicists. The moon falls between it's shadow and the sun. So if it moves a little it's shadow moves faster. : )
    But the shadow moved in the wrong direction. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • NopeNope 397 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat The moon moves around the earth counter clock wise. If it moves a little it's shadow moves a lot around the earth counter clockwise. What do you me the shadow moves the wrong way? Plus the earth moves around the sun counter clockwise to. It makes perfect sense.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -   edited November 2017
    Nope said:
    Erfisflat The moon moves around the earth counter clock wise. If it moves a little it's shadow moves a lot around the earth counter clockwise. What do you me the shadow moves the wrong way? Plus the earth moves around the sun counter clockwise to. It makes perfect sense.
     Maybe you misunderstood the op. Let's not use clockwise since you aren't on the north or south pole, the sun and moon move from east to west. Except in the heliocentric model the sun doesn't move and the moon only appears to move east to west, but actually moves west to east, to factor in the axial rotation of the earth. The kicker is that the shadow of the moon moved from the northwest to southeast during and only during the eclipse.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • NopeNope 397 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat Like you said the moon moves from west to east. so why wouldn't it's shadow. Talking in to consideration the fact that the moon moves from west to east, the way shadows work and the way the earth rotates around the sun the way the shadow moves is what we would expect. And what do you me when you say "the shadow of the moon moved from the northwest to southeast during and only during the eclipse"?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Nope said:
    Erfisflat Like you said the moon moves from west to east. so why wouldn't it's shadow. Talking in to consideration the fact that the moon moves from west to east, the way shadows work and the way the earth rotates around the sun the way the shadow moves is what we would expect. And what do you me when you say "the shadow of the moon moved from the northwest to southeast during and only during the eclipse"?
    That's the direction that the moon moved during the eclipse.

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • HankHank 75 Pts   -  
    @Erfisflat

    Obviously there is no northern or southern hemisphere in your hypothetical 'flat earth' model that ignores the most rudimentary laws and theories of science, so how do you explain The Coriolis force?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Hank said:
    @Erfisflat

    Obviously there is no northern or southern hemisphere in your hypothetical 'flat earth' model that ignores the most rudimentary laws and theories of science, so how do you explain The Coriolis force?
    How or what "rudimentary laws" does the flat earth ignore, and can you give a practical example of the coriolis effect and how it proves the earth is a spinning ball?
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    Nope said:
    Erfisflat Like you said the moon moves from west to east. so why wouldn't it's shadow. Talking in to consideration the fact that the moon moves from west to east, the way shadows work and the way the earth rotates around the sun the way the shadow moves is what we would expect. And what do you me when you say "the shadow of the moon moved from the northwest to southeast during and only during the eclipse"?
    That's the direction that the moon moved during the eclipse.

    Care to support this claim?

    Erfisflat said:
    Hank said:
    @Erfisflat

    Obviously there is no northern or southern hemisphere in your hypothetical 'flat earth' model that ignores the most rudimentary laws and theories of science, so how do you explain The Coriolis force?
    How or what "rudimentary laws" does the flat earth ignore, and can you give a practical example of the coriolis effect and how it proves the earth is a spinning ball?
    You can probably make an argument for all of them. Gravity and electromagnetism as understood by science are clearly not compatible with a flat earth. Once those are called into question it raises issues with anything that relies or interacts with them, which will cover the other fundamental forces which then basically undermines all physics which in turn undermines all chemistry, biology, etc, etc.

    The coriolis effect is a predicted reaction of existing on a spinning sphere (hence applicability) and a practical example would be predicting the weather where it has a part to play on the way storms and pressure systems move. Contrary to popular belief it doesn't influence the way water drains in toilets/sinks.
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 1201 Pts   -   edited November 2017
    Hank said:
    @Erfisflat

    Obviously there is no northern or southern hemisphere in your hypothetical 'flat earth' model that ignores the most rudimentary laws and theories of science, so how do you explain The Coriolis force?
    I will ignore the fact you're obviously trying to distract people from the conversation and ask for explanation to how the corolis effect proves a globe (and what "rudimentary laws"  the flat earth ignores)
    I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    "Care to support this claim?"

    Did you read the OP?

    "You can probably make an argument for all of them. Gravity and electromagnetism as understood by science are clearly not compatible with a flat earth."

    Gravity I get, and has been discussed in great detail here,  but electromagnetism? Ellaborate.

    "The coriolis effect is a predicted reaction of existing on a spinning sphere (hence applicability) and a practical example would be predicting the weather where it has a part to play on the way storms and pressure systems move. Contrary to popular belief it doesn't influence the way water drains in toilets/sinks."

    Are you referring to the effect of the earth's rotation on hurricanes and tropical storms? Obviously this isn't practical, we can't accurately predict the weather from the earth's spinning. What is your source?
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    https://earth.nullschool.net

    Weather patterns make perfect sense on a flat earth map.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    @Erfisflat

    "Did you read the OP?"

    Yes. Why do you think the shadow only moves that direction during the eclipse - or alternatively why do you think people who don't believe in a flat earth think that? 

    "Gravity I get, and has been discussed in great detail here,  but electromagnetism? Ellaborate."

    An understood property of all electromagnetic energy (like light) is that as standard it will decrease according to the inverse square law. This makes sense for a large sun far away where the changes in temperature throughout the year are almost entirely to do with the length of time the sun is visible due to the way the earth rotates at an angle towards the sun, so even variations of a million miles don't make much difference. However if the earth is small and very close, every model I've seen seems to have it at a few thousand mileswe would expect there to be very noticeable temperature differences due to the way the energy would disperse.

    "Are you referring to the effect of the earth's rotation on hurricanes and tropical storms? Obviously this isn't practical, we can't accurately predict the weather from the earth's spinning. What is your source?"

    Tropical storms and hurricanes? Not really, they are the result of other intense atmospheric effects more powerful than the Coriolis effect. You will see it in more gentle storm systems As we seem to just be talking about what the scientific consensus is rather than debating if it is right or not, i suggest you just wiki it in the first instance.

    https://earth.nullschool.net

    Weather patterns make perfect sense on a flat earth map.

    This seems to be a spherical earth map.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    "Yes. Why do you think the shadow only moves that direction during the eclipse - or alternatively why do you think people who don't believe in a flat earth think that?"

    We all can see which direction the moon moved in. It is never from northwest to southeast.

     "An understood property of all electromagnetic energy (like light) is that as standard it will decrease according to the inverse square law. This makes sense for a large sun far away where the changes in temperature throughout the year are almost entirely to do with the length of time the sun is visible due to the way the earth rotates at an angle towards the sun, so even variations of a million miles don't make much difference. However if the earth is small and very close, every model I've seen seems to have it at a few thousand mileswe would expect there to be very noticeable temperature differences due to the way the energy would disperse."

    Like the extreme temperatures of Antarctica to the sweltering heat of the equator? (Why is it the hottest at the equator despite the tilt of the earth?)

    "Tropical storms and hurricanes? Not really, they are the result of other intense atmospheric effects more powerful than the Coriolis effect. You will see it in more gentle storm systems As we seem to just be talking about what the scientific consensus is rather than debating if it is right or not, i suggest you just wiki it in the first instance."

    Again, if I have to "wiki" anything, it isn't practical. Why don't you give us a demonstration of you prediction the movement of a storm, and tell us how this is affected by the earth's rotation?

    https://earth.nullschool.net

    Weather patterns make perfect sense on a flat earth map.

    This seems to be a spherical earth map.

    Oh and change the projection to AE.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  

    We all can see which direction the moon moved in. It is never from northwest to southeast.

    We can see what position the moon has in our sky. If the Earth completes a rotation (1 day) faster than the moon completes an orbit (28 days) then it doesn't matter which direction it moves because it's the earth's rotation which will be the prime factor in how it appears in the sky so saying we can see the direction it moves is false - we can only see the direction it appears to move. That's basic geometry and I have explained this - and you seemed to have accepted the premise - in the other flat earth thread.

    This portion of it that you bring up now is easy to understand. The moon moves west. The shadow moves west. What's the issue?

    Like the extreme temperatures of Antarctica to the sweltering heat of the equator? (Why is it the hottest at the equator despite the tilt of the earth?

    No, like burning the flesh from people's bodies at noon and being normal temperature in the evening.

    Also if you don't like that one, there's also the earth's magnetic field; the explanation for which doesn't make sense in a stationary earth as it assumes a spherical earth with a molten core of metal which is moving and generating this magnetic field.

    Oh and change the projection to AE.

    Still a spherical earth.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    "This portion of it that you bring up now is easy to understand. The moon moves west. The shadow moves west. What's the issue?"

    The shadow, once again, moved from the northwest to the southeast in the eclipse. What's YOUR issue?

    "Also if you don't like that one, there's also the earth's magnetic field; the explanation for which doesn't make sense in a stationary earth as it assumes a spherical earth with a molten core of metal which is moving and generating this magnetic field."

    There are also magnets with a pole in the center and one a ring around it.


    Oh and they took down the ae map I just figured out( wonder why?). No biggie, it has been recorded.


    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Again, we are getting into theories and speculations of a particular model, this may (or may not) help you @Ampersand
    https://aplanetruth.info/2016/02/25/electromagnetic-flat-earth/amp/
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -   edited November 2017
    The shadow, once again, moved from the northwest to the southeast in the eclipse. What's YOUR issue?

    My issue is you are presenting this as an issue for seemingly no good reason that you have explained. The moon moves eastwards. Why would the shadow not also move eastwards? And why would you claim without evidence that it only moves eastwards during an eclipse?

    I can kind of understand questioning why the moon itself moves eastwards but from our point of view appears to move westwards, but as explained (and seemingly accepted by you) in the Flat Earth 4.0 thread that's down to the relative orbit/rotations of the moon/sun and is an expected effect based on simple geometry. With this example I don't even understand what the issue is meant to be because it seems so clear cut.

    There are also magnets with a pole in the center and one a ring around it.

    What are you trying to suggest? That rather than being ice the north pole is actually a giant magnet? You haven't actually offered an explanation and I don't want to play guessing games.

    Oh and they took down the ae map I just figured out( wonder why?). No biggie, it has been recorded.

    What point are you trying to make? The calculations and figures are for a spherical earth, which you can check in the about us section. The projection is just different ways of viewing it as no projection is perfect (e.g. if you view it as a sphere you can only see half the globe at one, if you view it as anything other than a sphere there will be distortions to try and represent this shape). That at one point there was a flat circular projection no more signifies the earth is flat and circular than the WB projection signifies that the Earth is a fractal.
    Erfisflat
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