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Is retributive justice justified in a modern society?

Debate Information

"Eye for an eye" is thousands of years old.

Some alternative approaches:
  1. Restorative justice: Focuses on repairing harm and restoring relationships between offenders, victims, and the community.
  2. Transformative justice: Aims to address underlying social issues that contribute to crime.
  3. Utilitarian approaches: Emphasize crime prevention and rehabilitation over punishment.
  4. Psychiatric interventions: For offenders with mental health issues.
A combination of the above would be ideal, in my view.



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  • just_sayinjust_sayin 1368 Pts   -  
    The phrase  'an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth' go back, at least, to Hammurabi's code. Ur-Nammu of the city of Ur has a much older law code, but Hammurabi's is more well known.  "lex talionis" - or retributive justice has had some extreme forms.  For example, in Hammurabi's code is someone had an accident and it killed the child of another person, then the man's daughter who caused the accident would be killed.  If you took in a runaway slave you would be put to death.  If you committed robbery, you would be put to death (law 22).  If someone knocked out a tooth, there tooth was knocked out.  And the laws differed by class.  The rich were given exceptions and lesser punishments, where the poor and slaves suffered the most extreme punishment.

    Many have suggested that the Old Testament laws were as strict as the Code of Hammurabi, but this is not the case.  The Old Testament does list 16 offenses where the death penalty is possible (even things like disobeying parents) - but in all of them other than murder - a lesser punishment was accepted (Numbers 35:31; Prov 6:32-35; Matt 1:19).  Not the case for Hammurabi, well if you weren't rich that is.  In fact, there is little to no evidence that the Jews enforced the most extreme form of punishment, capital punishment, for most of the 16 crimes, though immediately after the giving of the 10 commandments - there are some examples where breaking the commandments was punished that way.  

    The Bible does not have differing punishments for different classes of people.  If someone killed a slave, then it punished in the same way as if he killed a rich person.  If they stole from a slave, they got the same punishment as if they stole from a rich person.

    The Bible required 2 witnesses for a death penalty, and a court judge's ruling.  People were not allowed to enact street justice (though it did happen illegally sometimes).  

    The Bible, unlike Hammurabi's code, requires the Jewish people to not turn over a slave, but to protect them.  

    Jesus in the New Testament describes a different mindset to have about one's rights:

    “You have heard the law that says the punishment must match the injury: ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also. 40 If you are sued in court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too. 41 If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles. 42 Give to those who ask, and don’t turn away from those who want to borrow.
    43 “You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. 44 But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! 45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. 46 If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. 47 If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. 48 But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. - Matthew 5:38 - 48 NLT

    So, I think there is a place for non retributive justice.  Where I see that some efforts go off the rails, is where they become only concerned about the restoring the criminal, and ignore the victim.  While as a Christian, I can overlook an offense from someone else.  That is self-imposed, not the mandate of the law at large.  While I might choose to overlook some wrong or injustice done by someone else, that is a personal choice, and not a legislative mandate placed upon all victims.  

  • BeckasBeckas 13 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold the first and main hurdle would be paedophiles, the crimes these abominations commit are unforgivable, an eye for an eye is the only justifiable outcome for such evil in-fact I would go further and suggest medieval punishments be levelled against such evil, then there is child murderers, rapists, and serial killers who abuse such soft policy's to continue the infliction of their crime. what needs to be reckoned with is the idea that not all people are capable of Good or restoration some are just evil, and will die evil with a smile on their face, could you imagine trying to treat Dahmer's mental health 'in the community'? there are far worst than Dahmer out there, in the UK they use teh approach you have outlined, an immigrant grabbed in a headlock and stabbed an 8yrold girl repeatedly in the face and neck in London was 'being treated for mental health' this was last week, the little girl requires plastic surgery and will never look the same again for me if I where the judge jury and executioner I would have the man tied to a post and burned alive in the centre of a public square for all to see so that the public viewing such a scene can 'understand' what consequences greet such people upon committing their wicked crimes, unfortunately wider 'civilised' society would rather tolerate the stabbing of 8yer olds than enact genuine preventive 'safeguards' for fear our society can mentally handle public capital punishment dished out in public as an example. 

    it should be noted that Iran has a very low theft rate

    Iran also cut the hands off captured thieves and their feet if they attempt to flee once identified, if only Iran applied this same logic to male rapists it could consider itself civilised.        
  • BoganBogan 629 Pts   -  
    @Beckas

    You posted on another topic which implied that you are anti Israel?    If so, then I find your position on pedophilia's to be odd?      If you oppose Israel, then it stands to reason that you support Islam.    within Islam, what you would call "paedophilia" is openly practiced, and officially and religiously sanctioned.       How do you reconcile your opposition to paedophilia when you apparently support the evil religion which practices and promotes this behaviour?  


  • BoganBogan 629 Pts   -  

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