Do you support Kamala Harris plan to take away private healthcare from 170 million people?

jack

just_sayin said:

Do you support Kamala Harris plan to take away private healthcare from 170 million people?

Hello just_:

Sure, as long as she replaces it with Medicare For ALL, and that's what her plan does..  To suggest that she just wants to eliminate private health insurance and leave people WITHOUT any insurance at all, is disingenuous - which of course, is your middle name.  Du*de!

Her bill, if enacted, would have abolished private health insurance for all age groups (including Medicare beneficiaries) and replaced it with a government-run single-payer system to benefit “every individual who is a resident of the United States,” including undocumented immigrants. (Bernie Sanders has popularized the term “Medicare for all” for a U.S. version of single-payer, government-run health insurance.)

Her plan will cover everybody for everything, and we'll save enough money to buy 4 aircraft carriers..   Easy peasy..  Oh, the billionaire health insurance CEO's ain't gonna like it..  But scr*ew them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2024/07/25/if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-will-kamala-harris-let-you-keep-it/

Truth is, it boils down to Montana..  If John Tester keeps is seat, Harris with have a trifecta, and she'll be able to pass her health bill.  IF Tester loses, then MAGA will keep the senate, and nothing worthwhile will be passed under those circumstances.

excon

Factfinder

jack said:

just_sayin said:

Do you support Kamala Harris plan to take away private healthcare from 170 million people?

Hello just_:

Sure, as long as she replaces it with Medicare For ALL, and that's what her plan does..  To suggest that she just wants to eliminate private health insurance and leave people WITHOUT any insurance at all, is disingenuous - which of course, is your middle name.  Du*de!

Her bill, if enacted, would have abolished private health insurance for all age groups (including Medicare beneficiaries) and replaced it with a government-run single-payer system to benefit “every individual who is a resident of the United States,” including undocumented immigrants. (Bernie Sanders has popularized the term “Medicare for all” for a U.S. version of single-payer, government-run health insurance.)

Her plan will cover everybody for everything, and we'll save enough money to buy 4 aircraft carriers..   Easy peasy..  Oh, the billionaire health insurance CEO's ain't gonna like it..  But scr*ew them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2024/07/25/if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-will-kamala-harris-let-you-keep-it/

excon

So because simple minded people are jealous of what others can buy they want to make sure everyone suffers from the same anti American scams as everyone else does? And you agree in a free country like America people shouldn't have a right to purchase what they can afford and should be abused by government like everyone else? Why do you and your party hate America and fall for the same lies repeatedly? Expecting different results fulfilling the definition of insanity? Isn't your party happy with the millions of lives your party wrecked purposely already with Obama non care and Build back worse cause we hate the American way Bidenomics? Why do you avoid this question Jack...How did you come to hate you country so much? 

just_sayin

Argument Topic: What happens to Jack if he gets brain damage in a government run healthcare system?

jack said:

just_sayin said:

Do you support Kamala Harris plan to take away private healthcare from 170 million people?

Hello just_:

Sure, as long as she replaces it with Medicare For ALL, and that's what her plan does..  To suggest that she just wants to eliminate private health insurance and leave people WITHOUT any insurance at all, is disingenuous - which of course, is your middle name.  Du*de!

Her bill, if enacted, would have abolished private health insurance for all age groups (including Medicare beneficiaries) and replaced it with a government-run single-payer system to benefit “every individual who is a resident of the United States,” including undocumented immigrants. (Bernie Sanders has popularized the term “Medicare for all” for a U.S. version of single-payer, government-run health insurance.)

Her plan will cover everybody for everything, and we'll save enough money to buy 4 aircraft carriers..   Easy peasy..  Oh, the billionaire health insurance CEO's ain't gonna like it..  But scr*ew them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2024/07/25/if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-will-kamala-harris-let-you-keep-it/

excon

@Jack, what did we do to make you hate us so much?  I wouldn't wish government healthcare on my worst enemy.  Just imagine government run healthcare - with all the efficiency and compassion of the DMV.  Good, fast, cheap - pick two.  That's what you will end up under government controlled healthcare.  Are you brain damaged?  Then know that in Canada, only 90% of patients see a neurologist within 334 days.  

And the care in Canada is unequal by province. 

There is a great deal of variation in the total waiting time faced by patients across the provinces. Ontario reports the shortest total wait—20.3 weeks—while Prince Edward Island reports the longest—64.7 weeks. There is also a great deal of variation among specialties. Patients wait longest between a GP referral and neurosurgical procedures (58.9 weeks), while those waiting for radiation treatments begin treatment in 3.9 weeks.

The UK's healthcare system is collapsing.  A majority of Canadians have private healthcare insurance even though they get 'free' healthcare.  Canadians literally have raffles to see who can get a general doctor.  I've seen doctor's in Cuba.  The operating room looks like something out of a saw movie.  The rooms are 5 to six to a room.  There are no glass in the windows, nor sheets on the bed, nor toilet seat on the toilets.  I've watched orderlies mop the floors by sticking the mop in the toilet for water.  Outside of the tourist areas in Havana, the average size of a pharmacia is a card table - well, it actually is a card table.  if you want something exotic like child cough syrup or eye drops, then forget it and go get it on the black market.  Oh and if you want to complain, know that they will provide you a barred cell in which you can complain.  That's what government run healthcare is really like, Jack.

Geez, Jack, if you are brain damaged, let's start you a go fund me account, but I doubt you have enough time left before you could get an appointment with a neurologist in a government run healthcare system.  

jack

@Jack, what did we do to make you hate us so much?  I wouldn't wish government healthcare on my worst enemy.

Hello just_.

You speak claptrap..  I have single payer..  I see a doctor, the doctor sends a bill, Medicare, the single payer, pays it.

Easy Peasy. 

excon

jack

Factfinder said:

jack said:

just_sayin said:

Do you support Kamala Harris plan to take away private healthcare from 170 million people?

 And you agree in a free country like America people shouldn't have a right to purchase what they can afford ah?

Hello F:

Economics 101..  Why don't old people buy their own health insurance???  Because the government plan is sooooo much cheaper..  Under my plan, anybody can sell insurance, but ain't nobody gonna buy it, cause the government plan is soooo much cheaper..

You ask why I hate America..  I ask why do you LOVE billionaire CEO's??  Under my plan 100% of what you pay in taxes, goes toward your care.  Under your plan, maybe 45% of what you spend goes to your care..  The other 55% goes into the pockets of billionaires..

If I were to argue that you'd let people die in the street, you'd argue that nobody goes without health care in this great country..  They go to the ER which is the most expensive way to deliver bad health care.  And, I might add, the ER doesn't offer treatment..  Nahh, if we ELIMINATE the entire health care insurance industry, and replace it with single payer who's only job is to pay the bills.  We'd save sooooooo much money that we could buy 4 aircraft carriers..

excon

Factfinder

jack said:

Factfinder said:

jack said:

just_sayin said:

Do you support Kamala Harris plan to take away private healthcare from 170 million people?

 And you agree in a free country like America people shouldn't have a right to purchase what they can afford ah?

Hello F:

Economics 101..  Why don't old people buy their own health insurance???  Because the government plan is sooooo much cheaper..  Under my plan, anybody can sell insurance, but ain't nobody gonna buy it, cause the government plan is soooo much cheaper..

You ask why I hate America..  I ask why do you LOVE billionaire CEO's??  Under my plan 100% of what you pay in taxes, goes toward your care.  Under your plan, maybe 45% of what you spend goes to your care..  The other 55% goes into the pockets of billionaires..

If I were to argue that you'd let people die in the street, you'd argue that nobody goes without health care in this great country..  They go to the ER which is the most expensive way to deliver bad health care.  And, I might add, the ER doesn't offer treatment..  Nahh, if we ELIMINATE the entire health care industry, and replace it with single payer who's only job is to pay the bills.  We'd save sooooooo much money that we could buy 4 aircraft carriers..

excon

Government plan is cheaper now but it sucks. That's why people LIKE the option of going out of pocket. If  you just want to see a doctor, okay but what if you need an operation? That's a different story. Operating rooms are booked months in advance for the more routine type procedures. You need a neuro surgeon? Hope your tumor is a slow grower for sure.

You make the mistake of thinking if government is the only player in town everything would stay priced as they are, even though taxes haven't, fees haven't, fines haven't...nothing that government controls. has. It's that doing the same thing expecting different results thing being insanity that I told you about earlier. 

Your irrational hatred of ceo's causes your blindness in your dedication to proven 100% failure rate of extreme socialist ideas. What would America be if we couldn't offer world class healthcare? That's what the vice bimbo wants to shut down cause why? Third world far left dictatorships set a good precedent? Jack please.

It's not about loving ceo's Jack, it's about the idea a place exist where a person is free to acquire as much wealth as they can without an oppressive government stealing it from them. But Jack you want to steal it from them despite the fact the government of the United States has more spending power than any other entity in the world and by far. Why Jack do you despise the individual?? You do realize every democrat voted into a high office buys yachts and vacation homes just like the ceo's don't you?  

https://www.worldpropertyjournal.com/featured-columnists/celebrity-homes-column-al-gore-tipper-gore-oprah-winfrey-michael-douglas-christopher-lloyd-fred-couples-nicolas-cage-peter-reckell-kelly-moneymaker-2525.php

just_sayin

jack said:

@Jack, what did we do to make you hate us so much?  I wouldn't wish government healthcare on my worst enemy.

Hello just_.

You speak claptrap..  I have single payer..  I see a doctor, the doctor sends a bill, Medicare, the single payer, pays it.

Easy Peasy. 

excon

The biggest lie that anyone can believe is when the government tells you something is 'free'.  Right now both Canada and the UK's health care systems are 'free' but they are collapsing because 'free' costs an awful lot.

jack

just_sayin said:

The biggest lie that anyone can believe is when the government tells you something is 'free'.  Right now both Canada and the UK's health care systems are 'free' but they are collapsing because 'free' costs an awful lot.

Hello again, just_:

Oh, it's not free.  It's math..  We're taking from Peter to pay Paul.  When you subtract what we COULD spend, from what we DO spend, we'd have enough money left over to buy 4 aircraft carriers.  Think about it.. ALL the health insurance CEO's GONE.  All the health insurance managers, staff, EVERYBODY - GONE.  Their buildings GONE..  The underwriters - GONE..  

You got NOBODY between your doctor and the bill payer.  What we save will be enough to buy 4 aircraft carriers, or it could be 5..

excon

Factfinder

jack said:

just_sayin said:

The biggest lie that anyone can believe is when the government tells you something is 'free'.  Right now both Canada and the UK's health care systems are 'free' but they are collapsing because 'free' costs an awful lot.

Hello again, just_:

Oh, it's not free.  It's math..  We're taking from Peter to pay Paul.  When you subtract what we COULD spend, from what we DO spend, we'd have enough money left over to buy 4 aircraft carriers.  Think about it.. ALL the health insurance CEO's GONE.  All the health insurance managers, staff, EVERYBODY - GONE.  Their buildings GONE..  The underwriters - GONE..  

You got NOBODY between your doctor and the bill payer.  What we save will be enough to buy 4 aircraft carriers, or it could be 5..

excon

Let's test your math Jack.

You be Peter. I'll be Paul. Now discreetly send me your bank account number so what's yours can be taken and giving to me. Let's say this experiment last a month. Then we come back and evaluate our positions?

jack

Factfinder said:

Let's test your math Jack.

Hello F:

Sure, but let's use REAL NUMBERS..

We spend $22 trillion on health care.

https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/national-health-expenditures-2022-highlights

We spend a tad over $1 trillion of that sum on the health insurance industry. 

https://content.naic.org/sites/default/files/2021-Annual-Health-Insurance-Industry-Analysis-Report.pdf

Aircraft carriers cost about $13 billion.

https://www.cnet.com/pictures/meet-the-navys-new-13-billion-aircraft-carrier/

So, if we SUBTRACT the $1 trillion we AREN'T going to spend on the health insurance industry, and buy 5 new aircraft carriers at $13 billion each, for a total of $65 billion, we're gonna have $935 billion left over.  Using real math, that's a lotta scratch.

excon

Factfinder

jack said:

Factfinder said:

Let's test your math Jack.

Hello F:

Sure, but let's use REAL NUMBERS..

We spend $22 trillion on health care.

https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/national-health-expenditures-2022-highlights

We spend a tad over $1 trillion of that sum on the health insurance industry. 

https://content.naic.org/sites/default/files/2021-Annual-Health-Insurance-Industry-Analysis-Report.pdf

Aircraft carriers cost about $13 billion.

https://www.cnet.com/pictures/meet-the-navys-new-13-billion-aircraft-carrier/

So, if we SUBTRACT the $1 trillion we AREN'T going to spend on the health insurance industry, and buy 5 new aircraft carriers at $13 billion each, for a total of $65 billion, we're gonna have $935 billion left over.  Using real math, that's a lotta scratch.

excon

Jack, I understand you would like to destroy a trillion dollar a year industry, and steal their money to build a couple warships.  

But for our experiment it is deemed by everyone other than YOU that you have plenty of money to survive and that I need more so you should pay for me. That's the principle YOU support.

I'm offering to let you put your money where your mouth on a small individual scale and you're deflecting to bigger impersonal entities that will never listen to YOU anyway? Why?

jack

Factfinder said:

I'm offering to let you put your money where your mouth on a small individual scale and you're deflecting to bigger impersonal entities that will never listen to YOU anyway? Why?

Hello Fact:

Yeah..  Math is hard for right wingers..  Can't help that.

excon

just_sayin

jack said:

Factfinder said:

I'm offering to let you put your money where your mouth on a small individual scale and you're deflecting to bigger impersonal entities that will never listen to YOU anyway? Why?

Hello Fact:

Yeah..  Math is hard for right wingers..  Can't help that.

excon

Economics is a hard for socialists.  Let's look at the UKs healthcare system:

1) England is nearly 50,000 doctors short.  Why are they leaving?  Low morale, burn out, and they aren't being paid what they are worth.  When the government, not the free market, determines your salary, there is no rush to work in such a system.  As they say in Cuba 'the government pretends to pay us, and we pretend to work.'

2) bed shortages and long wait times in emergency departments.  When the government is paying, they cut corners, and the demand is greater.

3) No more money.  The tax payers are taxed out.  They have given and given and still they can't get a general practitioner to see them.  

The Red Cross called the state of the UK's healthcare debacle a 'humanitarian crisis'.

British Red Cross Calls Hospital Overcrowding in the UK a “Humanitarian Crisis

Ambulances don't come.  People have died in the hallways waiting days for a bed.  This is socialist medicine.  

Factfinder

jack said:

Factfinder said:

I'm offering to let you put your money where your mouth on a small individual scale and you're deflecting to bigger impersonal entities that will never listen to YOU anyway? Why?

Hello Fact:

Yeah..  Math is hard for right wingers..  Can't help that.

excon

In other words you want other peoples money stolen from them but you don't want yours taken from you because in your infinite wisdom success in America is evil, dependence on government hacks is good.

jack

Factfinder said:

In other words you want other peoples money stolen from them but you don't want yours taken from you because in your infinite wisdom success in America is evil, dependence on government hacks is good.

Hello again, Fact:

I'll try one more time, cause I like you..

I started with $22 trillion because that's what we CURRENTLY spend..  You DO understand that, don't you??  So, when I rearrange WHO gets that money, I'm NOT talking about raising new taxes..  I'm talking about taking from Peter to pay Paul..  You DO understand that, don't you??  And, when I take from the insurance industry (Peter), and give it to the people (Paul), I don't need to raise taxes to do that, right???

And, if we did that, would we find that we DON'T need the insurance industry any more??  Uhhh, YES, we would.   What do they do, anyway?  Well, they write this book about all the things they don't cover, and then they sit in judgment about whether we really NEED what our doctor said we NEED.  But, if we cover everybody for everything,  no judgment ever needs to be made.  So.......... the insurers are obsolete, right???  INDEED they are.   

I think you're hung up on covering EVERYBODY for EVERYTHING.  It's a brand new concept.  Yes, we'll treat sick illegals, and we'll treat 'em for EVERYTHING.

This is NOT hard. 

excon

just_sayin

@jack
Even though Comrade Kamala supported co-sponsored Bernie Sanders' Medicare for All Act, which would have abolished private health insurance in favor of a government-run single-payer system, and during her 2019 presidential campaign, Harris initially expressed support for eliminating private health insurance in favor of "Medicare for All", it seems she is NOW saying 'If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep your healthcare plan."  Well, last time a politician said that, I lost my healthcare plan and my deductible went up 300 percent and my costs went up 200% percent.

Factfinder

jack said:

Factfinder said:

In other words you want other peoples money stolen from them but you don't want yours taken from you because in your infinite wisdom success in America is evil, dependence on government hacks is good.

Hello again, Fact:

I'll try one more time, cause I like you..

I started with $22 trillion because that's what we CURRENTLY spend..  You DO understand that, don't you??  So, when I rearrange WHO gets that money, I'm NOT talking about raising new taxes..  I'm talking about taking from Peter to pay Paul..  You DO understand that, don't you??  And, when I take from the insurance industry (Peter), and give it to the people (Paul), I don't need to raise taxes to do that, right???

And, if we did that, would we find that we DON'T need the insurance industry any more??  Uhhh, YES, we would.   What do they do, anyway?  Well, they write this book about all the things they don't cover, and then they sit in judgment about whether we really NEED what our doctor said we NEED.  But, if we cover everybody for everything,  no judgment ever needs to be made.  So.......... the insurers are obsolete, right???  INDEED they are.   

I think you're hung up on covering EVERYBODY for EVERYTHING.  It's a brand new concept.  Yes, we'll treat sick illegals, and we'll treat 'em for EVERYTHING.

This is NOT hard. 

excon

I feel your desire to cover everyone for everything. But we all know Harris of all people can't pull it off. You see just like with Obamacare the math always looks right in the presentation and falls way short in the application. As with Obamacare; the very same carrots are tied before the cart and stays out of reach. Remember how people lost their coverage, the price of treatment and medical insurance sky rocketed and when the dust settled in the end it was just a tax scheme to tax the poor with? Why do you always fall for the carrot before the cart from the scum you idolize repeatedly?

Delilah6120

@just_sayin

She did not say she would end private healthcare plans.

Four years ago she said she supported a version of Medicare for All. 
Yes it would have greatly expanded government-run healthcare and the need for private insurance would have decreased.

She later explained her position to be that she would allow private insurance and Medicare for All to work together.

But this was just an idea and an idea that evolved over time.  

To date and since becoming VP, she has not pushed for Medicare for All and has not talked further about eliminating private healthcare.

What I´m curious about is how did you translate the above to be:

Do you support Kamala Harris plan to take away private healthcare from 170 million people? 

and

When Kamala Harris ran for president in 2020 she said she would end private healthcare plans.  That means that 170 million people who get insurance through their work would lose those plans and have no choice but to have government run healthcare.  Some have tried to cover for Harris by saying that she probably doesn't support that now, but she is not on record disavowing her Marxist healthcare scheme.  What do you think?  Would you be OK with Kamala Harris getting rid of your healthcare plan?

Sure wish you would stop your doom and gloom flabbergasting.

It is distracting when you count on a rational debate based in facts but you get an OP based in lies, exaggerations and emotion.

Delilah6120

@jack

Jack - thanks for reminding me I have to donate to Tester!

just_sayin

Delilah6120 said:

@just_sayin

She did not say she would end private healthcare plans.

Four years ago she said she supported a version of Medicare for All. 
Yes it would have greatly expanded government-run healthcare and the need for private insurance would have decreased.

She later explained her position to be that she would allow private insurance and Medicare for All to work together.

But this was just an idea and an idea that evolved over time.  

To date and since becoming VP, she has not pushed for Medicare for All and has not talked further about eliminating private healthcare.

What I´m curious about is how did you translate the above to be:

Do you support Kamala Harris plan to take away private healthcare from 170 million people? 

and

When Kamala Harris ran for president in 2020 she said she would end private healthcare plans.  That means that 170 million people who get insurance through their work would lose those plans and have no choice but to have government run healthcare.  Some have tried to cover for Harris by saying that she probably doesn't support that now, but she is not on record disavowing her Marxist healthcare scheme.  What do you think?  Would you be OK with Kamala Harris getting rid of your healthcare plan?

Sure wish you would stop your doom and gloom flabbergasting.

It is distracting when you count on a rational debate based in facts but you get an OP based in lies, exaggerations and emotion.

She literally co-sponsored a bill with Bernie Sanders for single payer health insurance.  No amount of spin, will change reality.

jack

just_sayin said:

She literally co-sponsored a bill with Bernie Sanders for single payer health insurance.  No amount of spin, will change reality.

Hello again, just_:

I've literally explained to you how her plan covers MORE people - not LESS, as you so disingenuously suggested.  That's not spin, it's arithmetic.  My math shows that if we subtract the money we spend on obsolete health insurance, from what we spend now, we'd cover everybody for everything, buy a few aircraft carriers, and SAVE $ billions. 

Spin that, if you can. 

excon

just_sayin

jack said:

just_sayin said:

She literally co-sponsored a bill with Bernie Sanders for single payer health insurance.  No amount of spin, will change reality.

Hello again, just_:

I've literally explained to you how her plan covers MORE people - not LESS, as you so disingenuously suggested.  That's not spin, it's arithmetic.  My math shows that if we subtract the money we spend on obsolete health insurance, from what we spend now, we'd cover everybody for everything, buy a few aircraft carriers, and SAVE $ billions. 

Spin that, if you can. 

excon

@Jack, I think you got caught in the crossfire. @Delilah6120 said that Harris didn't really ever support a single payer plan.  She not only supported it, she co-sponsored it. 

Jack, do you know why most Canadians, who have single payer, also have private insurance also?  Because government run health insurance sucks.  Again, Jack, are you brain damaged?  Cause if you are, it would take three-quarters of a year before you could schedule an appointment with a neurologist.   And in some provinces, more than a year.  Pick 2:  fast, cheap, good.  That's essentially the options you have with a government run plan.  Canadians are taxed out the wazoo and still most care private healthcare insurance.  Most can't even get a family doctor.  They literally have lotteries to see who can get a family doctor.  In Canada, 57% of adults waited more than 4 weeks to see a specialist. In Canada, 42% of patients waited 2 hours or more in the emergency room, while in the US only 29% wait that long.  Government run healthcare can literally kill you, Jack - which is what happened a lot in the UKs system, where they found dead people in the hallways after having not been able to get a bed at a hospital for days.  

jack

just_sayin said:

Jack, do you know why most Canadians, who have single payer, also have private insurance also?  Because government run health insurance sucks. 

Hello just_:

You make the assumption that because Canada or the UK can't provide good service, that we can't either..  I don't make that assumption..  IF we were to compare apples to apples, let's compare government run Medicare with their systems.   I'm ON government run MEDICARE, along with 60 million others, and it WORKS.  I see a doctor, the doctor sends the bill, and Medicare pays it.  No lines.. No long waits.  Just good medicine.

Easy peasy,

excon