Do you support Kamala Harris' plan to kick police and security officers out of public schools?

just_sayin

If Harris gets her way, then police officers will be taken out of public schools.  Violence in schools will escalate, especially in urban school settings, where gang presence is highest.  Harris has sided with those who want to disrupt schools and make learning impossible for students who just want a good education.  Rather than removing those who are disrupting and causing problems in schools, Harris wants to remove the ones who are there to protect the kids.  Typical socialist mindset - make it so that no child gets a good education, instead of allowing some to get a good education.  

jack

just_sayin said:

Do you support Harris' plan to remove police from public schools?

Hello just_:

I don't think cops should be roaming the halls of your local public school.  What's he there to enforce?  The rules, or the law??  When a kid is truant, they go to JAIL???  DU*DE!!!!  They get put in handcuffs??  They get to sit on the curb?  They get to enjoy the back seat of a patrol car??

Du*de again!

excon

Factfinder

jack said:

just_sayin said:

Do you support Harris' plan to remove police from public schools?

Hello just_:

I don't think cops should be roaming the halls of your local public school.  What's he there to enforce?  

excon

Laws protecting children from crazy left wingers who watch Rambo movies, steal their parents guns and go to public schools because disenfranchised liberal politicians use school no gun zones to create a need to steal constitutional rights from law abiding citizens. Maybe those laws protecting lives Jack, might that be a reason for police presence?

Bogan

@just_sayin ;     Violence in schools will escalate, especially in urban school settings, where gang presence is highest. 

Which is the polite way of saying that African American blacks, Hispanics, and Pacific Islanders are the problem.

just_sayin

Bogan said:

@just_sayin ;     Violence in schools will escalate, especially in urban school settings, where gang presence is highest. 

Which is the polite way of saying that African American blacks, Hispanics, and Pacific Islanders are the problem.

Many urban schools have higher percentages of African Americans and Hispanics.  Don't these kids deserve to be safe also.  Having police present helps ensure a safer learning environment, no matter what race the kids are.  

jack

Factfinder said:

Laws protecting children from crazy left wingers who watch Rambo movies, steal their parents guns and go to public schools

Hello Fact:

In the 50's and 60's, when America was OBJECTIVELY great, we didn't have cops patrolling the hallways..

excon

Factfinder

jack said:

Factfinder said:

Laws protecting children from crazy left wingers who watch Rambo movies, steal their parents guns and go to public schools

Hello Fact:

In the 50's and 60's, when America was OBJECTIVELY great, we didn't have cops patrolling the hallways..

excon

And people owned guns and thought nothing of it. Your point? 

We are in 2024 now Jack and when liberals decide they need to steal freedoms and rights to increase their political might they don't care who gets hurt in the process. 

In the fifties Americans thought it right to punish the perpetrators of crime, no one knew if you owned a gun or not. Since then liberals had a forty year run in congress at one point so now society gets the punishments as liberals made the criminals, victims. In their on going effort to divide and conquer cause they believe America should be just another failed socialist state with no individual successes for the citizens they think of as subjects. That's why we need police in schools in 2024 Jack. 

Bogan

@just_sayin

JS quote  Many urban schools have higher percentages of African Americans and Hispanics.

And they are the schools most in need of security guards, right?

 

JS quote     Don't these kids deserve to be safe also.  Having police present helps ensure a safer learning environment, no matter what race the kids are.

Then you might as well vote for Kamala Harris because your modern Christian principles, which tell you that all races must be equal, means that you refuse to even understand what the real problem is.      Old time Christians had no trouble at all justifying their belief that Africans in particular were inferior using the Bible, and I would advise you and your co religionists to think again whether your modern interpretation of Christian teachings are still valid?    

jack

Factfinder said: That's why we need police in schools in 2024 Jack. 

Hello F:

In the first place it's NUTS to say we need cops in schools to make America great again..  Needing cops in the schools doesn't make America GREAT..  It's proof that America FAILED.

excon

Factfinder

jack said:

Factfinder said: That's why we need police in schools in 2024 Jack. 

Hello F:

In the first place it's NUTS to say we need cops in schools to make America great again..  Needing cops in the schools doesn't make America GREAT..  It's proof that America FAILED.

excon

I don't disagree Jack. It is nuts. I am with you on this point.

Bogan

@jack ;     It's proof that America FAILED.

Because it failed to appreciate that all races were not equal.      

ditheism

Not only do I support Harris’ stance on policing schools, so do a considerable number of leading criminologists and other professionals in the field. Criminal offending in overpoliced areas is almost a self-fulfilling prophecy, and pushing a message to vulnerable, often marginalised, youth that they will inevitably commit a crime only pushes people to be more likely to offend. Statistically, police presence does not decrease rates of criminal activity (in fact, in many cases it does the opposite, leading to a higher rate of incarceration for minor or victimless crimes), juvenile detention/criminal intervention does not decrease delinquent behaviour or recidivism, and there are countless cases of policing in schools leading students to drop out or become disillusioned with the education system, in turn perpetuating cycles of low education and poverty.

Research by the Brookings Institution found that implementing new SRO’s into schools actually leads to an increase in gun-related crime by up to 195% and only results in a 30% decrease in other forms of violent crime, leading to a net increase in in-school violent offending. It leads to a 52% increase in arrests and a 90% increase in suspensions, both of which have been proven to increase antisocial/delinquent behaviour in youth. These rates of punishment are further increased by up to 3.3x when comparing black male students to white students, and it has been found that black and low income students already face disproportionately harsher punishment within the school system (Journal of Human Resources, 2021). Brookings also found that SRO’s are more likely to feel unsafe in racially diverse schools than in affluent, primarily white schools, indicating an existing racial bias.

This racial bias within the police system as a whole is well-documented. A 2023 report by the UN International Independent Expert Mechanism to Advance Racial Justice and Equality in Law Enforcement found that black Americans are 3x more likely to be killed by police than their white counterparts, and 4.5x more likely to be incarcerated. This report also found that the policing system as a whole within the USA, on a structural, local and individual level, holds a significant and measurable implicit racial bias, calling for reform within the system and warning that casualties will only increase without intervention. 

A report by the Sentencing Project found that two of the leading causes of youth delinquent behaviour and entry into the juvenile detention system are mental immaturity (being below the age of 25) and trauma. This same report found that not only do the majority of juvenile offenders age out (mature beyond) criminal offending, even without police intervention, but that youth incarceration can cause significant mental trauma, which would therefore increase the future rate of criminal offending in impacted youth. When a significant number of young offenders have a background of trauma, typically stemming from their home environment, compounding that trauma has no positive impact. Conduct disorder, one of the leading causes of criminal activity in youth, has been identified to be majorly caused by childhood trauma (Stanford Medicine) and virtually every psychiatric study into the disorder has identified psychotherapy as the only effective treatment. A 2015 study by the International Journal of Prison Health on incarcerated adults diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD, the adult counterpart to conduct disorder) found that people with the diagnosis are up to 5.04x more likely to have experienced physical abuse in childhood than the general population. Both of these disorders, which make up a majority of incarcerated men and boys, have a significant causal relationship with childhood trauma and have been known to meet next to no response to police intervention, instead being more likely to see reduction in symptoms, offending and increased rates of potential remission in intensive therapy.

Bipolar disorder and all four cluster B personality disorders, which make up a large proportion of both youth and adults involved in the justice system, have been found to have significant causal relationships with childhood trauma. 

Retraumatising already traumatised youth will not solve youth crime, instead worsening it. Youth detention and involvement in the justice system as a whole has not been found to provide any benefit to youth prone to criminal offending. 

A study by NYU’s Steinhardt found that black students in overpoliced areas, including schools with police and security personnel, were 8% less likely than black students in less policed areas to graduate high school (84% and 76% graduation rates, respectively). Latino students in heavily policed areas saw a similar impact, with 5% lower graduation rates. The study also found that black boys faced significantly lower math and english test results in connection with increased police surges. Police surges were reported to account for at least 20% of the test score gap between black and white students. 

Despite seeing a dramatic increase in school policing, the likelihood of children being school shooting victims increased by over 400% between 1970 and 2021 and that deaths increased more than sixfold (American College of Surgeons, 2024). There were more school shootings in 2022 than any other year since at least 1999 (Washington post, 2024) despite increases in SRO activity. Numerous studies have found that introducing police into American schools does not deter gun violence and has not caused a decrease in gun related incidents, or deaths, of any form within schools.

All available data finds that police presence in American schools, especially in low-income, ethnically diverse or otherwise marginalised areas, does not provide a net positive impact. There are several other options to decrease youth crime, all of which have been modeled in other parts of the world and found to be significantly more successful.

Delilah6120

@just_sayin

I am not understanding how you came to the conclusion that she is planning on kicking policy and security officers out of public schools. Can you please post some information that supports your OP statement?

She supports reforms to address systemic issues in policing and how police interact with communities. She is interested in reform - not eliminating police officers from schools.

Delilah6120

@just_sayin

just_sayin, I respectfully say this. Your extreme gloom and doom positions lead one to believe you are the victim of right wing extremism.

Contrary to what you have been made to believe, America is not going to hell and the sky is not falling.

Delilah6120

@Bogan

Spoken like the unapologetic racist he is!

just_sayin

Delilah6120 said:

@just_sayin

just_sayin, I respectfully say this. Your extreme gloom and doom positions lead one to believe you are the victim of right wing extremism.

Contrary to what you have been made to believe, America is not going to hell and the sky is not falling.

Delilah,  I am glad you are sharing your perspective on this issue.  

Kamala Harris called for removing cops from schools to fight racial 'inequities' in 2019 interview

Harris has to be held accountable for her words and policy proposals.  She doesn't get a mulligan every time a policy issue comes up.

The presence of SROs reduces fights and threats by about 30 percent.  I think that is reason enough to keep police officers in public schools.

Research Shows Having Police in Schools Results in Fewer Fights, But Harsher Discipline

jack

just_sayin said:

Research Shows Having Police in Schools Results in Fewer Fights, But Harsher Discipline

Hello just_:

Just HOW MUCH harsher are we talking about here??  5 to 10 in the big house?  3 months in juvie?  30 cracks of the whip??

And, that will result in respectful citizens???   Oh, boy, oh boy..  Is that nuts, or what?

excon

just_sayin

jack said:

just_sayin said:

Research Shows Having Police in Schools Results in Fewer Fights, But Harsher Discipline

Hello just_:

Just HOW MUCH harsher are we talking about here??  5 to 10 in the big house?  3 months in juvie?  30 cracks of the whip??

And, that will result in respectful citizens???   Oh, boy, oh boy..  Is that nuts, or what?

excon

Democrats claim they care about Black kids getting a good education, but that doesn't seem to be true.  Sure, they are willing to fight to keep a minority student in the classroom when they are disrupting the class, but they ignore that by doing that, that 30 other minority students are then not able to get a good education, because of that students disruptions.  Doesn't a Black kid deserve a good education?  Not according to Democrats.

Bogan

@Delilah6120 ;    Spoken like the unapologetic racist he is!

If the only explanation that you can dream up for ethnic minority dysfunction within every western country is "blame the white guys and their systemic racism". then you are just as big a racist as I am.  

Bogan

@ditheism

Ditheism quote  Not only do I support Harris’ stance on policing schools, so do a considerable number of leading criminologists and other professionals in the field. Criminal offending in overpoliced areas is almost a self-fulfilling prophecy, and pushing a message to vulnerable, often marginalised, youth that they will inevitably commit a crime only pushes people to be more likely to offend. Statistically, police presence does not decrease rates of criminal activity (in fact, in many cases it does the opposite, leading to a higher rate of incarceration for minor or victimless crimes), juvenile detention/criminal intervention does not decrease delinquent behaviour or recidivism, and there are countless cases of policing in schools leading students to drop out or become disillusioned with the education system, in turn perpetuating cycles of low education and poverty.

 Your position is fundamentally, that less police and less security, equal less crime?      The Biden administration took that potty view seriously and now crime in the USA is at unprecedented levels, and law and order have become a hot political issue because of it.     It always amuses me how you socialists always advocate for insane policies which always fail.  You never learn.         

Ditheism quote  Research by the Brookings Institution found that implementing new SRO’s into schools actually leads to an increase in gun-related crime by up to 195% and only results in a 30% decrease in other forms of violent crime, leading to a net increase in in-school violent offending. It leads to a 52% increase in arrests and a 90% increase in suspensions, both of which have been proven to increase antisocial/delinquent behaviour in youth. These rates of punishment are further increased by up to 3.3x when comparing black male students to white students, and it has been found that black and low income students already face disproportionately harsher punishment within the school system (Journal of Human Resources, 2021). Brookings also found that SRO’s are more likely to feel unsafe in racially diverse schools than in affluent, primarily white schools, indicating an existing racial bias.

 Less security leads to less crime?     Like, your kidding?     I don’t know which leftist academic dreamed those statistics up, but anyone with even below average IQ can easily understand that they are just some sort of ethnic pleasing fantasy.      As for "racial bias", young black men are very violent and are responsible for most violent crime.     "Bias" has nothing to do with it.  

Ditheist quote  This racial bias within the police system as a whole is well-documented. A 2023 report by the UN International Independent Expert Mechanism to Advance Racial Justice and Equality in Law Enforcement found that black Americans are 3x more likely to be killed by police than their white counterparts, and 4.5x more likely to be incarcerated. This report also found that the policing system as a whole within the USA, on a structural, local and individual level, holds a significant and measurable implicit racial bias, calling for reform within the system and warning that casualties will only increase without intervention. 

 Another way of looking at that is, that African blacks have a group bell curve of IQ much lower than for whites, coupled with a genetic predisposition towards violent criminal behaviour at a rate much higher than for other races.      

Ditheist quote A report by the Sentencing Project found that two of the leading causes of youth delinquent behaviour and entry into the juvenile detention system are mental immaturity (being below the age of 25) and trauma.

 In other words, most young black men are really dumb.  Thank you for confirming my above analysis. 

 

Ditheist quote  This same report found that not only do the majority of juvenile offenders age out (mature beyond) criminal offending,

 Most violent offenders are young, stu-pid, and either black or Hispanic.       This once again supports the idea that violent criminal behaviour has a genetic causal link.

 

Ditheist quote ……….even without police intervention, but that youth incarceration can cause significant mental trauma, which would therefore increase the future rate of criminal offending in impacted youth.

The Biden administration agreed with that academic idiocy and instituted “no cash bail”.     How did that go?    Last I heard, every US city cursed with a high proportion of “immature” young black or Hispanic males was shutting down it’s shopping centers and grocery stores because young ethnic criminals were roaming the streets robbing everybody, instead of rotting in jail.   

 

Ditheist quote  When a significant number of young offenders have a background of trauma, typically stemming from their home environment, compounding that trauma has no positive impact. Conduct disorder, one of the leading causes of criminal activity in youth, has been identified to be majorly caused by childhood trauma (Stanford Medicine) and virtually every psychiatric study into the disorder has identified psychotherapy as the only effective treatment.

Seems like you are sprouting for work for your own particular public service department?         The eternal cry of the public service is, and always has been, “Give our particular department lots of money and we can save you lots of money!”     It never seems to work, though.   

 

Ditheist quote       A 2015 study by the International Journal of Prison Health on incarcerated adults diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD, the adult counterpart to conduct disorder) found that people with the diagnosis are up to 5.04x more likely to have experienced physical abuse in childhood than the general population. Both of these disorders, which make up a majority of incarcerated men and boys, have a significant causal relationship with childhood trauma and have been known to meet next to no response to police intervention, instead being more likely to see reduction in symptoms, offending and increased rates of potential remission in intensive therapy.

 In 1900, Great Britain achieved a significant milestone in human civilisation.     Despite the most glaring societal divisions between rich and poor, and most people in England and Wales living in a poverty which today we would equate with African poverty, England and Wales were the safest places in the entire world.     They were so safe that much to the astonishment of the rest of the world, English and Welsh police did not need to carry firearms.       Today, with multiculturalism, especially black Africans from the Caribbean and lately, direct from Africa, British homicide rates are approaching those of the USA.     A few years back, London’s homicide rate overtook New York’s.     “Poverty” and “childhood trauma” are just excuses dreamed up by academics who just do not want to admit that crime and race are linked.   

DItheist quote     Retraumatising already traumatised youth will not solve youth crime, instead worsening it. Youth detention and involvement in the justice system as a whole has not been found to provide any benefit to youth prone to criminal offending. 

 Here in Australia, your “softly, softly” approach has failed, just like it did in the USA.       Ethnic youth crime is now such a serious political issue in Australia that those socialist parties in our state governments who parrot your nonsense are going to be hurled out of office because the public can see that your position has failed.    

Ditheist quote  A study by NYU’s Steinhardt found that black students in overpoliced areas, including schools with police and security personnel, were 8% less likely than black students in less policed areas to graduate high school (84% and 76% graduation rates, respectively). Latino students in heavily policed areas saw a similar impact, with 5% lower graduation rates. The study also found that black boys faced significantly lower math and english test results in connection with increased police surges. Police surges were reported to account for at least 20% of the test score gap between black and white students. 

 You seem to be saying that “over policing” is the cause of black dysfunction?       Good luck selling that premise.   Especially since it is those black societies which “defunded the police” where crime went right out of control, and where they are now back pedaling and “refunding the police.”    If there is "at least a 20% score gap between black and white students" that appears to prove my premise that as group, blacks have a lower IQ than whites.  

Ditheist quote  Despite seeing a dramatic increase in school policing, the likelihood of children being school shooting victims increased by over 400% between 1970 and 2021 and that deaths increased more than sixfold (American College of Surgeons, 2024). There were more school shootings in 2022 than any other year since at least 1999 (Washington post, 2024) despite increases in SRO activity. Numerous studies have found that introducing police into American schools does not deter gun violence and has not caused a decrease in gun related incidents, or deaths, of any form within schools.

 In other words, immature young men are getting more violent despite increased security?    An intelligent person (which you obviously are not) would say “What is making young immature men more violent than previously?”     Ever listened to "rap music"?     How about violent revenge type movies where Real Men are always displayed as violent men?   Then toss in violent computer games?     If your culture glamourises violence and criminality, why are you surprised when your young men respond to this violent conditioning by your own entertainment media?  

Ditheist quote  All available data finds that police presence in American schools, especially in low-income, ethnically diverse or otherwise marginalised areas, does not provide a net positive impact.

Okay, then withdraw all security from those schools and let the violent young male students kill themselves off.    That should reduce crime rates.    Good luck finding teachers who will teach without security guards protecting them from violent students.  

 

Ditheist quote    There are several other options to decrease youth crime, all of which have been modeled in other parts of the world and found to be significantly more successful.

 Bu-llsheet.    Name one?

just_sayin

After the events of last week it seems evident that having police officers in public schools can save lives.

polytheistwitch

Would love to see law enforcement taken out of schools especially at the elementary level. They're not required to receive any training on how to interact with young people or special needs people or anybody for that matter. They're considered part of the crisis response team on an IEP but they're not required to attend any IEP meetings so the parents know exactly what the officers intent is when he enters a room where he might be handcuffing a 10-year-old because they're having trouble sitting down cuz they have ADHD.

Factfinder

polytheistwitch said:

Would love to see law enforcement taken out of schools especially at the elementary level. They're not required to receive any training on how to interact with young people or special needs people or anybody for that matter. They're considered part of the crisis response team on an IEP but they're not required to attend any IEP meetings so the parents know exactly what the officers intent is when he enters a room where he might be handcuffing a 10-year-old because they're having trouble sitting down cuz they have ADHD.

Who would stop a killer from killing ten or more of those children? Do officers hand cuff 10 year olds for having APHD? How often? Once? Ten thousand times? Got any sources affirming it's an ongoing national problem? You're claiming police officers never get sensitive training of any kind related to children, special needs, young people or school situations? Sorry, not buying it.