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Is True Christianity the product of indoctrination?

Debate Information

Though many can be "indoctrinated" into a cult or a religion, it is NOT possible to be indoctrinated into true Christianity as true Christianity is an intimate, abiding, personal, relationship with our Creator by faith. Genuine, Life-Giving, Faith is beyond "indoctrination"...it is not possible to "indoctrinate" Christian faith and Christian faith cannot be taught, coerced, manipulated, but Christian faith is volitional trusting-believing with a sincere heart that what has been provided by the Holy Spirit in the Canon of Scripture is true and that same Christian faith believes that our Creator will do exactly as He has promised. 

Christian Faith cannot be achieved, internalized or maintained through coercion or deception...faith in Jesus as Messiah must be internally genuine in order to ingratiate one's self with our Creator and thereby establish New Covenant relationship with Him and receive the indwelling Holy Spirit as Guarantor of New Covenant promise (Ephesians 1:13-14; Hebrews 11:6).

Though Christian faith comes through hearing the words of our Creator (Romans 10:17), those words must be volitionally internalized and received as true with a sincere heart and subsequently responded to in the affirmative in order that said faith be valid, applicable and regenerative.

On the other hand, 

The false "faith" of the atheist, secular humanist, is the product of demonic deception as it's the product of Satan, false teaching via Marxist education/indoctrination; generally, more often than not...atheism is a product of Darwinian Evolution forced upon the naive in public school settings. Atheism, once ingrained in the heart of the deceived, the arrogant, the proud, the narcissist, the sexually perverse, is likened to a metastasizing malignancy as it eats away at the soul and decimates the conscience and ultimately leads to antisocial, perverse, behaviors that destroy mind, body, soul, in Hell (Romans 1:18-32). It is the false faith of the atheist that comprises the "many" in Jesus' warning...

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14





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  • just_sayinjust_sayin 1294 Pts   -   edited October 19
    To me the aspect of 'indoctrination' that is troubling is when something can't be questioned.  Having answered hundreds of Bible questions on this site, I'd have to say, I'm not afraid of being questioned or answering questions, but I can't say that of most of the atheists on this site.  When confronted with the reality that 10 miracle level events (a 'miracle' being defined as an event less than 1 in 10 to the 50th power of happening naturally) are necessary for chemical evolution, atheists put their fingers in their ears and start singing the 'science of the gaps' song.  Shoot, I've heard that @MayCaesar is even learning to play it on the bagpipes.  LOL.



    Point is, atheists just accept chemical evolution, because to look into it and ask the hard questions is just too much for their 'faith' to handle.  We saw how various atheists claimed there was no evidence for miracles.  Yet, I've provided eye witness testimony, doctor testimony, medical records, video, news reports, court case verdicts, and peer reviewed journals of evidence.  Yet one in particular was observed saying 'that thar ain't no evidence, cause I says there ain't no evidence'.  That's classic indoctrination - and denial.




    RickeyHoltsclaw
  • JoesephJoeseph 1234 Pts   -  
    But to you " true christianity " is your particular brand of christianity ,you call catholics satanists,  and every form of christianity that you dislike satanism , you also brand all Muslims satanists along with members of every other religion.

    To make matters more unbalanced and nutty you refuse to name your own particular denomination because you're a coward , but it's pretty obvious you're a form of Calvanist.
    Factfinder
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 453 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Hey Rickey

    @RickeyHoltsclaw

    Teach your kids nonsense and they will grow up believing in nonsense.
    Factfinder
  • FactfinderFactfinder 1501 Pts   -   edited October 20
    @just_sayin

    If what you believe is true why do you lie?  Why do you repeat the same lies and call it "answering questions"? Why do you lie about what others say when not believing your lies? Why do you hold up an elf book that you obviously don't comprehend or even read? Why do you claim to have evidence of a magical leg hopping out of a grave after two years cause a beggar prayed to an idol of a mortal? When if you ever read your elf book you'd know your elf god frowns on such things? Why do you believe a god who pardons the worst of crimes but not 'unbelief' in a fictious egomaniac being who hides? When questioned about the aforementioned leg you say you don't believe "it hopped back to its stump 50 miles away", instead you believe "god did" which is just as stupendously uncredible and you have no true evidence, but cultic writing by believers and liars with personal agenda's like selling cultic claims to the idiotic and gullible? Why do you say you don't fear hell cause you believe in god when you don't dare question your idea of a god or you'll go to hell? What real evidence do you have of hell? I mean the real kind, like when that leg had the guys life's scars on it, that was real evidence his leg wasn't amputated, and he had it all a long which is why the world doesn't sit in awe and wonder over it today. Only a few low iq and gullible believe the original leg means the leg came back from the dead two years later cause a guy prayed to a statue. When your elf book calls for the death penalty when praying to idols and not the 'one true god'. LOL So....why do you lie @just_sayin? I mean obviously you're indoctrinated.

    Leviticus 26:1King James Version

    26 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.


    Ezekiel 9:6

    King James Version

    6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.


    Cringey Atheist Memes  She Seeks Nonfiction

    Joeseph
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 1093 Pts   -  
    @Fredsnephew ; Training your children to follow the precepts of the Bible offers them a life of hope and peace and patriotism and honor. Training your children in the ways of atheistic narcissism is training them in the ways of death and Hell and nihilism.


  • JoesephJoeseph 1234 Pts   -  
     @RickeyHoltsclaw


    Training your children to follow the precepts of the Bible offers them a life of hope and peace and patriotism and honor. 


    You mean like how you can own people as property? Or maybe stoning homosexuals to death? Or how about teaching your children that women are inferior to men?

    I see you're still too cowardly to admit you're a Calvanist.
    Factfinder
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 1093 Pts   -  
    @Joeseph ; You've been "muted"....we're done.
  • JoesephJoeseph 1234 Pts   -  
    @RickeyHoltsclaw

    Ahh got ya , you're that ashamed of your calvinist roots you again take the cowards way out .....my work here is complete......
    Factfinder
  • just_sayinjust_sayin 1294 Pts   -  
    Joeseph said:
    But to you " true christianity " is your particular brand of christianity ,you call catholics satanists,  and every form of christianity that you dislike satanism , you also brand all Muslims satanists along with members of every other religion.

    To make matters more unbalanced and nutty you refuse to name your own particular denomination because you're a coward , but it's pretty obvious you're a form of Calvanist.
    The Church of Satan is made up of atheists.  So, they would be much closer to you in belief than to Catholics or Muslims.  I would never call them 'satanists'.  I am not into Catholic bashing.  I may come from a different tradition, but I believe in having liberty in non-essential issues.  Believing that Jesus actual rose from the dead is an essential belief to me.  Muslims do not believe this.

    I come from both Pentecostal (Assembly of God) and Charismatic (non-denominational) traditions.  One was semi-Calvinistic and the other is not.   
  • just_sayinjust_sayin 1294 Pts   -  
    Joeseph said:
     @RickeyHoltsclaw


    Training your children to follow the precepts of the Bible offers them a life of hope and peace and patriotism and honor. 


    You mean like how you can own people as property? Or maybe stoning homosexuals to death? Or how about teaching your children that women are inferior to men?

    I see you're still too cowardly to admit you're a Calvanist.
    I see you're still too cowardly to admit you're a Calvanist.

    Oh, so you were talking to Rickey, about being a Calvinist.

    You mean like how you can own people as property?

    Regarding 'people as property'.  I think you have taken a bad translation of Exodus 21:20-21.  The word "keceph," is silver or investment, not property.  

    “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property. - Exodus 21:20-21 (NIV)

    A better translation is:

     “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money (investment). - Exodus 21:20-21 (ESV)

    A few observations that disprove your notion that a slave is 'property'.  You don't give someone the death sentence if they kill their 'property'.  But that is what the penalty was for killing a slave.   Secondly, the word some translations render 'property' in Exodus 21;21 is the word 'silver'.  A more accurate reading is that the master is not to be killed if the slave lives and that the slave/servant is his 'silver' or investment.  Another passage points out that if the slave lost even a tooth, the master lost his investment (the slave got to keep the money they were promised - and were immediately free).  Does that happen to property?

    Property usually doesn't get to negotiate contracts.  Servitude was a contract negotiated thing.  Exceptions would have been if a court ordered that they work for the person if they had stolen from them or had failed to repay a debt.  However, this would have come with specific terms and limitations also.

    Property does not have rights.  But slaves in the Bible had the right of a Sabbath's rest.  They had full legal rights.  The courts did not treat them as lesser beings, unlike the Hammurabi Code.  If a master stole or committed a crime against them, then the master got the exact same punishment that the slave would get if they committed the crime.

    No slave could be kidnapped.  This was a death penalty offense.  Slaves could acquire slaves also.  Can property acquire its own 'property'?  I don't think so.  Any slave, foreign or Hebrew born, could flee their master and they were not to be returned.  This is different than any other law code of the time.  The Hammurabi Code required someone to return a slave they were housing and if they did not, then they were to be executed.  This is why so many foreign slaves fled to Israel.  So if someone was a slave - even one due to warfare, they could flee and they were not to be returned.  

    You continue to misrepresent slavery in the Bible.  It was not the same as chattel slavery.  

    Or maybe stoning homosexuals to death?

    Homosexuality, along with about 10 other sexual sins, could carry the death penalty in the Mosiac law.  But as I showed @FactFinder, there is not a single example in Israel of any homosexual being given the death penalty for that offense.  Instead, a ransom (financial payment) was often given.  Further, any death penalty crime had to have at least 2 eye witnesses, had to have an official trial, and had to have a judge pass that sentence.  


  • FactfinderFactfinder 1501 Pts   -  
    @just_sayin

    I come from both Pentecostal (Assembly of God) and Charismatic (non-denominational) traditions.  One was semi-Calvinistic and the other is not.  

    You come from your parents loins. Those are the doctoral institutions you attended. See the difference?
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 1093 Pts   -  
    @just_sayin ; @Joeseph has made the affirmative decision to die in Hell...pray for him...I have no interest in his insults and idio-cy. @Factfinder is hateful toward my Lord, possibly due the tragic death of a spouse...he too has made the affirmative decision to hate our Creator and the Gospel...may my Lord have mercy upon him in that Day...I'm done with both of these clowns.
  • @RickeyHoltsclaw


    '

    MEMBERSHIP: PERTAINING TO THE RUNAWAY RICKEYHOLTSCLAW!

    Well, as explicitly seen since the poor RickeyHoltsclaw came back from his sabbatical of taking a short time off to try and regroup from being easily Bible Slapped Silly by Atheists that have forgotten more about the Bible than he will ever learn from it, the Christian Cultist Rickey cannot address my posts directed to him anymore!!!  

    I knew this day would eventually come in his behalf because it was to easy for me to make him this Religion Forum's number one BIBLE FOOL, as other Atheists as well did with ease! LOL!


    Here is a video of "RickeyHoltsclaw" since he cannot 
    address my posts anymore, but to only run away from them and hide
    and he wants to call himself a Christian?!  NOT!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7ni7zL8qU



    RUN RICKEY, RUN AWAY FROM ME BEING AN ATHEIST 
    THAT EASILY OWNS YOU AND YOUR CULTIST FAITH 
    OF CHRISTIANITY, PRAISE ZEUS!





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