So you don't believe in God?

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hey Rickey

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Nope.

Belief is an assumption.


Though a hypothetical inter-galactic super-intelligence is a reasonable proposition.

And one would expect an inter-galactic super-intelligence to also be omni-sensible.

Not a tablets of stone and burning bush numpty.

More of a technological wizard sort of thing.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Fredsnephew ; Christian belief is NOT an "assumption" but Christian's believe what the Scriptures teach through the Holy Spirit. If you die without Jesus as atonement for your sin, you will die in Hell.

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

REMEMBER RICKEY, YOU'VE DECIDED THAT YOU CANNOT ADDRESS MY POSTS ANYMORE FOR OBVIOUS REASONS OF YOUR UNGODLY RUNAWAY STATUS, UNDERSTOOD? GOOD BOY!

With that being said above, your image of John 3:36 that you posted relates to the "son" and not "god" which relates to Jesus, get it Bible Dunce?

Therefore, to not embarrass yourself again, use a verse like the one shown below that relates to Jesus as god next time,  DUH!

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16)


Rickey, you continue to show us in how utterly bible stu-pid you truly are at all times.  How sad.  











.

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw


RickeyHoltsclaw,

Snce you cannot defend your goat-herder faith of Christianity anymore, other than to be a runaway from it as shown in your many recent posts, then maybe its time for you to except reality and just leave your Christian Death Cult to save yourself from further embarrassment from the Atheists that own you and your faith outright!

Yes, the journey of you leaving behind your Death Cult Christianity will be challenging and will leave you with emotional hurdles and psychological stress, but, when you can perform this act of leaving your comical faith you’ll be totally free of immoral bible axioms, where you were the laughing stock of this Religion Forum in trying to refute them, praise!

THE FOLLOWING IS WHAT YOU WILL GAIN WHEN LEAVING YOUR CHRISTIAN DEATH CULT:

1. No more being devoted to a brutal serial killer god named Jesus that murders innocent zygotes, fetus,’ babies and children, of which you probably never mentioned to your friends!

2. No more in you having to run away from disturbing bible verses and narratives because you couldn’t defend them with cogent refutations, and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath!

3. No more overt tactics of primitive Christianity applying emotional and psychological manipulation  over your feeble grade-school brain that accepted Christianity in the first place!

4. No more telling Atheists that they are going to Hell as an excuse to use when you could not address their posts to you in the first place!

5. No more child-like thinking in accepting that snakes, burning bushes, and donkeys can talk, that the first man was made from dust, and a woman from mans rib, and where women are 2nd class citizens at best, just to name a few comical biblical axioms of which there’re many more!

6. No more ranting with your outright Bible Stoopidity in making yourself embarrassed when Atheists rule over your Christianity! 

Yes, exiting your Christian Death Cult can mark a courageous beginning of a journey toward self-discovery and freedom, and entering the 21st Century instead of remaining in the primitive thinking Bronze and Iron Age that Christianity represented!

RickeyHoltsclaw, to help you along as myself being an ATHEIST that feels so sorry for you, here are some links for you to peruse at your leisure for you to rid yourself of a faith that has absolutely no business being in the 21st Century of science, rational thought and logic 101:

The Heart of Cult Recovery:

https://www.icsahome.com/elibrary/topics/articles/the-heart-of-cult-recovery-compassion-for-the-self

Cult Recovery 101:

https://cultrecovery101.com/cult-recovery-readings/coming-out-of-the-cults/

How to get Someone Out of a Cult: 

https://theconversation.com/how-to-get-someone-out-of-a-cult-and-what-happens-afterwards-217697

Psychotherapy with Former Cult Members:

https://www.psychotherapy.net/article/cult-members

Dare to Doubt:

https://www.daretodoubt.org/cults

.

MayCaesar

But what is the probability of a creationist misrepresenting a scientist's argument when referencing it? It is 1 minus 10^(-123), is it not?

PorfirioDiaz2

MayCaesar said:

But what is the probability of a creationist misrepresenting a scientist's argument when referencing it? It is 1 minus 10^(-123), is it not?

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Fredsnephew ; Christian belief is NOT an "assumption" but Christian's believe what the Scriptures teach through the Holy Spirit. If you die without Jesus as atonement for your sin, you will die in Hell.

God is energy. To produce energy you need other sources of energy to amp up its atomic number. Radio waves from your car stereo produce signals in the air you cannot see, feel, or hear yet play the music in your vehicle. This type of energy also functions in a different yet similar matter to humans. but unlike your radio signals being sent ours come in the form of thoughts. The more thought and faith you put on what you believe and want gets channeled out of you and onto either a specific god, thing, person or universe. When religion came and Jesus roamed the earth, thats an entirely different case but with the same concept. May it be dead or alive, your prayers, thoughts, and wishes go directly towards the source. It is what empowers them. It is what empowers you. It is what empowers your wishes to come true. God, jesus and religion are at a whole different level unbeknownst to us, but a reflection of its work as an example can be seen with the North Korean leader Kim Jong Un

Every morning of every day North Koreans are required a few minutes of their day to worship the North Korean leader to the beat of an anthem played via speakerbox installed in their homes. Thats over one million people directing energy towards Kim Jong Un. It is powerful enough to prevent the regime from collapsing out of decades long of western sanctions which were implemented to provoke the NK regime to collapse. But it hasnt. And it is one of the number one reasons why NK threatens war to South Korea when the South flies drones over NK territory dropping pamphlets onto its population. The west has not accepted this theory because it is impossible for the west to accept something of that scale can be so easily manipulated by mere thought.

The gods depend on prayer in order for them to retain power. Without prayer or faith i believe they become open season to anyone. Life and all creation is too perfectly matched in its entirety to slightly argue the existence of a creator,  and that all of that we know was pure coincidence or luck. A donkey will always choose to go towards the jungle because thats the only path it knows. It doesnt know any better road to go.

It could possibly be that we were created as a peoject. And who ever created us is still running its experiment and tracking our progression over the years into what we are capable of developing for their use or research purposes. You know. Sort of what we do with the less intellect life we have on this planet.

So you dont believe in god? Play the quija board then hotshot and tell me how that goes.

Joeseph

@PorfirioDiaz2

God is energy

So when I switch on a light I'm switching on god? Wow! You learn something new every day.


The west has not accepted this theory because it is impossible for the west to accept something of that scale can be so easily manipulated by mere thought.

Because there's not a shred of proof for it , prayer does not work every credible study constructed regards it proves this.


So you dont believe in god? Play the quija board then hotshot and tell me how that goes.

The quija board works on the Ideomotor principle , want proof? Cover up the letters on the board give it a go and it spells nonsense as in random letter combinations that are pure nonsense.

So your post is basically you attempting to assert nonsense as fact and as usual nog a shred of evidence to back your nonsense up with.

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hey Rickey.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

As you well know, Christian belief is based upon the assumption that a creator GOD is responsible for everything.

And as you also know, you cannot prove the existence of a creator GOD.

All that you do is reiterate a naive time worn hypothesis, that has never stood up to critical scrutiny.

Analogically the idea of a creator influence is reasonable...But the devil is in the detail.

There are no real details though...Stuff like nailing blokes to crosses for my sins, just doesn't make any sense.

Dreamer

I think we need to continue to criticize religion.

"Rather, it is due to the deference that society gives to such religious beliefs in forming policy, even if those beliefs are clearly irrational and have the potential to endanger public health. Undue respect for religious beliefs that clash with the scientifically demonstrated ability of vaccines to prevent disease safely enables parents who are either antivaccinationist or who have been mislead by antivaccinationist fearmongering a relatively easy method to bypass vaccination laws and an easy avenue for physicians peddling non-evidence-based attacks on vaccination to help them do so."

https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2007/10/18/using-religion-to-avoid-vaccination-revi/

Religion has too much respect in our society. I mean if someone wants to play Pokemon and worship pikachu, I'm okay with it in a closed group. Yet, even with the new atheist movement, there is still just too much respect for religion and it leads to harm. The new atheist movement has not succeeded yet. When religious exemptions are laughed at rather that respected for vaccines we know we have passed a major milestone, that milestone has yet to be passed.

Keep firing away at religion.

PorfirioDiaz2

Joeseph said:

@PorfirioDiaz2

God is energy

So when I switch on a light I'm switching on god? Wow! You learn something new every day.


The west has not accepted this theory because it is impossible for the west to accept something of that scale can be so easily manipulated by mere thought.

Because there's not a shred of proof for it , prayer does not work every credible study constructed regards it proves this.


So you dont believe in god? Play the quija board then hotshot and tell me how that goes.

The quija board works on the Ideomotor principle , want proof? Cover up the letters on the board give it a go and it spells nonsense as in random letter combinations that are pure nonsense.

So your post is basically you attempting to assert nonsense as fact and as usual nog a shred of evidence to back your nonsense up with.

Actually you are wrong. There has been scientific research studying the electro magnetic field outside of a church when its empty and when its filled during mass, specifically during prayer. The study showed a significant change in the electro magnetic energy above the church during prayer and no activity when it wasnt in mass.


If you say it hownit is then play the quija board then. Shouldnt be a big deal right. You wouldnt sit there and play it why? Because ur not stu***. Youre not stu*** because you know that  ____insert your reason here____  tells you its notna wise idea. That self pep talk is your subconscious telling you, yeah you believe in a higher power ur just being a lil b about it pretending like you are unique compared to everyonenelse. That you are too smart to be fooled by a man made book that shows no proof other than stories. Play the quioja board.


Theres been countless studies to thought and prayer (which is the same thing). We all practice it even you. The job you have now. The way younwant your life lived. You put your mind to it in thought and it manifested for you.

Joeseph

@PorfirioDiaz2

Actually you are wrong. There has been scientific research studying the electro magnetic field outside of a church when its empty and when its filled during mass, specifically during prayer. The study showed a significant change in the electro magnetic energy above the church during prayer and no activity when it wasnt in mass.

No I'm not and just asserting I'm wrong is not an argument , if I'm wrong prove it?

If you say it hownit is then play the quija board then. Shouldnt be a big deal right. You wouldnt sit there and play it why? Because ur not stu***. Youre not stu*** because you know that ____insert your reason here____ tells you its notna wise idea. That self pep talk is your subconscious telling you, yeah you believe in a higher power ur just being a lil b about it pretending like you are unique compared to everyonenelse. That you are too smart to be fooled by a man made book that shows no proof other than stories. Play the quioja board.

I've used a Ouija board as part of a sceptical investigation,  I noticed you ignored my challenge which was cover up the individual letters keep track and you will see they spell nonsense , why do you refuse to investigate the matter?

Theres been countless studies to thought and prayer (which is the same thing)

You're not listening there's not one credible study to prove the claim prayer works.


. We all practice it even you.

No I don't,  also tell me how that works out for the countless parents worlwide who pray to God whilst watching a child die of cancer?

The job you have now. The way younwant your life lived. You put your mind to it in thought and it manifested for you.

Utter unsubstantiated nonsense 

MayCaesar

@PorfirioDiaz2

Electromagnetic energy was also significantly heightened when the Hiroshima bomb blew up and hundreds of thousands people died. God did that one as well, hmm? Sprinkled in some divine BDSM love?

How do you guys even come up with this stuff? You all say different things: yesterday I thought your god was supernatural, and now it is just electromagnetic energy... The Bible does not say that. Perhaps, believing in old fairy tales encourages you to come up with new ones?

Dreamer

@PorfirioDiaz2

Not the intercessory prayer debate again, another user has brought this up a lot. Poor studies that are basically designed to promote positive results through pure coincidence are used. If you have a study with a small sample sized and many end points you will get false positives, combine this with the file drawer effect and people only publishing positive results.

Many people think this cheapens religion.

"When a study has that many endpoints, one can expect to find a few positive correlations just by chance."

https://www.skepdoc.info/christianity-can-be-hazardous-to-your-health/

just_sayin

MayCaesar said:

But what is the probability of a creationist misrepresenting a scientist's argument when referencing it? It is 1 minus 10^(-123), is it not?

Professor May, that is an incredibly small number, so small that any scientist would say that it is an absolute certainty.  Glad to see you are learning math.  I've mentioned multiple times that the odds of the processes needed for chemical evolution to occur are outrageously improbable, even given billions of years.  I've mentioned that there are at least 10 miracle level problems with chemical evolution (meaning odds of less than 1 in 10(50) power).  Since you like numbers, let's ask Jules favorite AI what are the odds that chemical evolution could randomly form the needed proteins needed:

Based on the search results and scientific understanding, the odds of chemical evolution randomly creating all the complex biomolecules and processes necessary for life are astronomically low. Here are some key points:

1. Protein formation:

- The probability of forming a single functional 150-amino acid protein by chance is estimated at 1 in 10^164.

- This accounts for correct amino acid sequencing, peptide bonds, and chirality (all left-handed amino acids).
- For a minimally complex cell requiring 250 proteins, the probability is calculated as 1 in 10^41,000.

2. Time constraints:

- Even given the age of the Earth (4.6 billion years), there hasn't been enough time for random chance to produce even a single functional protein.

- The number of attempts possible in this timeframe (estimated at 10^58) falls far short of the 10^164 attempts needed on average.

3. Complexity of cellular systems:

- Life requires not just proteins, but also lipids, nucleotides, sugars, RNA, DNA, and complex cellular structures.

- Each of these components faces similar probabilistic hurdles to proteins.

4. Chirality:

- The probability of incorporating only left-handed amino acids in a 150-amino acid chain is about 1 in 10^45.

5. Combined probabilities:

- When considering all the necessary components (amino acids, lipids, nucleotides, etc.) and processes (polymerization, metabolism, etc.), the odds become even more insurmountable.

6. Early formation of amino acids:

- While some amino acids may have formed early in the universe's history (about 168 million years after the Big Bang), this doesn't solve the problem of assembling them into functional proteins.

7. Limitations of chance:

- The search results emphasize that undirected chemistry alone cannot account for the origin of life or even a single functional protein.

In conclusion, the odds of chemical evolution randomly creating all the necessary components for life are so low as to be effectively impossible. This has led many researchers to search for non-random factors or alternative models to explain the origin of life. However, the exact mechanisms remain a subject of ongoing scientific investigation and debate.

Citations:

[1] https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/07/09/141564/first-evidence-that-amino-acids-formed-soon-after-the-big-bang/

[2] https://answersingenesis.org/evidence-against-evolution/probability/does-evolution-have-a-chance/

[3] https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/an-evolutionary-perspective-on-amino-acids-14568445/

[4]

[5] https://ncse.ngo/new-proteins-without-gods-help

[6] https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.chemrev.0c00409

[7] https://cyberpenance.wordpress.com/2018/08/20/the-odds-of-a-cell-forming-randomly-by-chance-alone/

[8] https://evolutionunderthemicroscope.com/newgenes01.html

Wow, tell me, is 1 in 10^164 good odds? What about 1 in 10^41,000, are those odds that sound likely to have occurred? Mind you we are only dealing with the formation of proteins, and haven't even touched on the really improbable parts of the process.  

If there was a university offering a degree in ignoring inconvenient facts, then I know a professor who would be tenured by now.  just sayin

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Fredsnephew ;  God, Elohim (Genesis 1:1), has proven his reality through what He has created and placed before your senses for evaluation. No one possessing at least a modicum of commonsense and logic denies the necessity for an omnipotent Creator and nowhere does our Creator identify Himself and meticulously explain His divine purposes for having created and His eschatological purposes for that creation narrative than what is provided us by the Holy Spirit in the Canon of Scripture, the Bible. If you perish in the abject foolishness of "atheism," you will die in Hell "without excuse." ONLY Jesus provides a Path to eternal life (John 14:6; John 3:16; Acts 4:12).

 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Dreamer ; It is the fo-ol that criticizes Jesus and it is the ignorant fo-ol who fails to understand His necessity in the sustainability of the United States. 

 

MayCaesar

PorfirioDiaz2 said:

Theres been countless studies to thought and prayer (which is the same thing). We all practice it even you. The job you have now. The way younwant your life lived. You put your mind to it in thought and it manifested for you.

Oh, but the world does not work like that. If I put my mind to becoming a fire-breathing dragon, it will not manifest for me. People get their jobs and build their lives not by praying for them, but by understanding what needs to be done to obtain them and doing it. No prayer or meditation is going to build you muscle if you do not go to the gym, and you will not acquire the job you want if you do not work on your skills and prepare for the interviews.

Prayer is defiance of reality, it is a request to something "greater than you" to grant you something that the Universe will not grant you just like that. In reality, you have to understand the laws of the Universe and then use them to your advantage. In the fairy tale world, you can find an angel, or a god, or whatever who you will just need to ask nicely, and you will get what you desire.

The Eastern storytellers have understood it well, hence in Eastern fairy tales such requests are usually granted with a catch. A genie grants you your three wishes, yet does it in a way that makes you his slave. You get exactly what you desire; you simply forgot to think about the strings attached to that desire.

Factfinder

@PorfirioDiaz2

If you say it hownit is then play the quija board then. Shouldnt be a big deal right. You wouldnt sit there and play it why? Because ur not stu***. Youre not stu*** because you know that  ____insert your reason here____  tells you its notna wise idea. That self pep talk is your subconscious telling you, yeah you believe in a higher power ur just being a lil b about it pretending like you are unique compared to everyonenelse. That you are too smart to be fooled by a man made book that shows no proof other than stories. Play the quioja board.

I don't think you understood Joseph's reference to the  Ideomotor principle. Otherwise you would accept that you would need to play the quija board 'blind' to prove your point, not he play it normally.

Theres been countless studies to thought and prayer (which is the same thing). We all practice it even you. The job you have now. The way younwant your life lived. You put your mind to it in thought and it manifested for you.

That's one hundred percent false. Nothing manifests itself cause you thought or prayed. That is manipulative nonsense taught as religious doctrine 101. 'Pray in believing you have received the thing prayed for and you will have it'. 'Think positive and you will get it'. But the new job, the influx of cash, the love of your life, none of these things manifest cause of your thoughts, they became reality because you engaged reality physically and made them happen; or not.(?) When it's the or "or not" that isn't "god" or "energy" telling you it said "no", that's your failure to accomplish that what you wanted. 

CrazySniperBoys

@21CenturyIconoclast I would like to see some disturbing verses. Please?

PorfirioDiaz2

Factfinder said:

@PorfirioDiaz2

If you say it hownit is then play the quija board then. Shouldnt be a big deal right. You wouldnt sit there and play it why? Because ur not stu***. Youre not stu*** because you know that  ____insert your reason here____  tells you its notna wise idea. That self pep talk is your subconscious telling you, yeah you believe in a higher power ur just being a lil b about it pretending like you are unique compared to everyonenelse. That you are too smart to be fooled by a man made book that shows no proof other than stories. Play the quioja board.

I don't think you understood Joseph's reference to the  Ideomotor principle. Otherwise you would accept that you would need to play the quija board 'blind' to prove your point, not he play it normally.

Theres been countless studies to thought and prayer (which is the same thing). We all practice it even you. The job you have now. The way younwant your life lived. You put your mind to it in thought and it manifested for you.

That's one hundred percent false. Nothing manifests itself cause you thought or prayed. That is manipulative nonsense taught as religious doctrine 101. 'Pray in believing you have received the thing prayed for and you will have it'. 'Think positive and you will get it'. But the new job, the influx of cash, the love of your life, none of these things manifest cause of your thoughts, they became reality because you engaged reality physically and made them happen; or not.(?) When it's the or "or not" that isn't "god" or "energy" telling you it said "no", that's your failure to accomplish that what you wanted. 

MayCaesar said:

PorfirioDiaz2 said:

Theres been countless studies to thought and prayer (which is the same thing). We all practice it even you. The job you have now. The way younwant your life lived. You put your mind to it in thought and it manifested for you.

Oh, but the world does not work like that. If I put my mind to becoming a fire-breathing dragon, it will not manifest for me. People get their jobs and build their lives not by praying for them, but by understanding what needs to be done to obtain them and doing it. No prayer or meditation is going to build you muscle if you do not go to the gym, and you will not acquire the job you want if you do not work on your skills and prepare for the interviews.

Prayer is defiance of reality, it is a request to something "greater than you" to grant you something that the Universe will not grant you just like that. In reality, you have to understand the laws of the Universe and then use them to your advantage. In the fairy tale world, you can find an angel, or a god, or whatever who you will just need to ask nicely, and you will get what you desire.

The Eastern storytellers have understood it well, hence in Eastern fairy tales such requests are usually granted with a catch. A genie grants you your three wishes, yet does it in a way that makes you his slave. You get exactly what you desire; you simply forgot to think about the strings attached to that desire.

Factfinder said:

@PorfirioDiaz2

If you say it hownit is then play the quija board then. Shouldnt be a big deal right. You wouldnt sit there and play it why? Because ur not stu***. Youre not stu*** because you know that  ____insert your reason here____  tells you its notna wise idea. That self pep talk is your subconscious telling you, yeah you believe in a higher power ur just being a lil b about it pretending like you are unique compared to everyonenelse. That you are too smart to be fooled by a man made book that shows no proof other than stories. Play the quioja board.

I don't think you understood Joseph's reference to the  Ideomotor principle. Otherwise you would accept that you would need to play the quija board 'blind' to prove your point, not he play it normally.

Theres been countless studies to thought and prayer (which is the same thing). We all practice it even you. The job you have now. The way younwant your life lived. You put your mind to it in thought and it manifested for you.

That's one hundred percent false. Nothing manifests itself cause you thought or prayed. That is manipulative nonsense taught as religious doctrine 101. 'Pray in believing you have received the thing prayed for and you will have it'. 'Think positive and you will get it'. But the new job, the influx of cash, the love of your life, none of these things manifest cause of your thoughts, they became reality because you engaged reality physically and made them happen; or not.(?) When it's the or "or not" that isn't "god" or "energy" telling you it said "no", that's your failure to accomplish that what you wanted. 

I know it might seem like you gooks are getting a one up on the argument with senseless counter arguments about god being a light switch and parents praying for children who have cancer. As cute as it might seem in your little mind, its a ridiculously invalid counter  argument by all means. Why? Because I can say the exact same thing to your argument. I can ask you to prove god is a light switch as you claim him to be or to prove god is responsible for those childrens deaths. If we're gona argue like children then you need a time out and stand in a corner for a bit. Throwing jibberish contractions at something you dont accept doesnt make you any better than me. We all have the same brain and same limits. Nothing special or better about yours other than what you allow to be fed. If you dont believe in anything or dont believe in god then indont understand the reason why u are sitting here arguing. Wouldnt that make you an eddiot? Arguing with someone about something that doesnt exist?. You wouldnt go to court to stand trial if you were never summoned right? You would look stoopid. Sort of like how you are now.

Lets not be stools here, if your answer to discredit anything ive said is backed by science then you should be able to explain why some scientific research studies result in the behavior of some particles in physics as unknown. Science nor anyone has a direct answer to why some particles behave the way they do. So when you come to me asking the same about god i could reflect the same. It is unclear to who or why at this moment but lets not pretend like you have all the right answers and half the population on earth is less brighter than you because they believe in god and not you.

PorfirioDiaz2

In all seriousness of this topic. I'd like to state that if you were to remove god from the lifes of all people, you, all, and I wouldnt be here sitting comfortably having this argument. Whether real or not god has put that little computer desk with the little ikea pillow that you bought so you wouldnt tire your buttocks because u never go outside. So be thankful and thenonly eddiot here is you.

The closest thing you resemble as an example right now is living life as a black man during the civil war and arguing to the court to re instate slavery into all the states.

Without god there would be chaos. To discredit him is the most dumbest move anyone could attempt.

Factfinder

@PorfirioDiaz2

If you dont believe in anything or dont believe in god then indont understand the reason why u are sitting here arguing.

Who's arguing? You believe in god, I don't. End of story. 

 You wouldnt go to court to stand trial if you were never summoned right? You would look stoopid. Sort of like how you are now.

You posted an assertion. I responded with facts you can't and didn't address that debunks your assertion. 

You said thoughts and prayer manifest your desires. Fact is nothing manifest  itself cause of your thoughts or prayers. Manifest 1 million in unmarked bills in my living room and then I'll be convinced you know what you're talking about. And just because you feel insecure when your faith is rejected/challenged doesn't mean anyone thinks they're better than you. Why would you think such a thing? Any god DNA in all those particles you're talking about?

Joeseph

@PorfirioDiaz2

Firing off insults because you cannot defend your nonsensical claims doesn't work.

You are the one who claimed god is energy not me I asked you was he then a light switch as you said he's energy , do you know what energy means,?

I never blamed god on child death I asked if prayer works according to you why does He watch kids die of cancer   you cannot answer thus.

 Youu cannot prove there is a god or that's its energy based ,you said prayer works yet you cannot demonstrate this to be true.

Also asking your opponent's to prove there isn't a god is a fallacious argument you're switching the burden of proof because you haven't a shred of proof in support of your nonsense.

I and other's are asking you to back your claims up calling our questions "Gibberish" proves you're incapable of doing so proffering to sulk and behave like a child.

We obviously all don't have the same brain which I'm extremely grateful.for after attempting communication with you.

Listen up troll you're on a debate site iband others don't believe in god you claim you do and make several claims about such not one of which you can prove now you're whining like a child because you're being asked to defend your nonsense.

Your piece about science is a rambling piece of incoherent nonsense ,now do you have anything at all instead of your hurt feelings to back your childish rants up with?

Joeseph

@PorfirioDiaz2

Ahh right anyone who disagrees with you is according to you an id-ot, seriously.thats all you got you big child?

Your point about the black man is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard this year.

You say  "without god there would be chaos" so this world is an example of God keeping chaos at bay  , seriously?

You've just made a more ridiculous statement than your last.

You really are a sulky child you need to go to your safe space calm down and try again.

PorfirioDiaz2

Joeseph said:

@PorfirioDiaz2

Firing off insults because you cannot defend your nonsensical claims doesn't work.

You are the one who claimed god is energy not me I asked you was he then a light switch as you said he's energy , do you know what energy means,?

I never blamed god on child death I asked if prayer works according to you why does He watch kids die of cancer   you cannot answer thus.

 Youu cannot prove there is a god or that's its energy based ,you said prayer works yet you cannot demonstrate this to be true.

Also asking your opponent's to prove there isn't a god is a fallacious argument you're switching the burden of proof because you haven't a shred of proof in support of your nonsense.

I and other's are asking you to back your claims up calling our questions "Gibberish" proves you're incapable of doing so proffering to sulk and behave like a child.

We obviously all don't have the same brain which I'm extremely grateful.for after attempting communication with you.

Listen up troll you're on a debate site iband others don't believe in god you claim you do and make several claims about such not one of which you can prove now you're whining like a child because you're being asked to defend your nonsense.

Your piece about science is a rambling piece of incoherent nonsense ,now do you have anything at all instead of your hurt feelings to back your childish rants up with?

No offense, just makes it more interesting.


I'm not insulting anybody. The only person that should be feeling insulted here is Jesus. Not you.


If you want to believe that what im actually talking about is some type of fantasy magical manifestation like those cartoons youre still watching and a big fan of. Then no. I wasnt talking about making things appear out of thin air. You should already be able to pick it up from here right. You know what i mean. If you dont then go give maxx a big hug. You both need one.

Joeseph

@PorfirioDiaz2

I haven't a clue what you're trying to say as you sound like a 3 year old who's playing on her mothers laptop.

I'm still laughing over your claim that god is what makes a light switch work are you related to Maxx?

PorfirioDiaz2

I see why not a lot of people come here. Let me find someone that can translate this into downs for you to understand. Since you really think a light switch has anything to do with god I will have to walk away from this one. 

Joeseph

@PorfirioDiaz2



I see why not a lot of people come here

Yes not to hear you tell them a light switch is god....


. Let me find someone that can translate this into downs for you to understand. 

Leave your mother out of this 

Since you really think a light switch has anything to do with god I will have to walk away from this one. 

I don't as i dont believec in god but you certainly do as you said god is energy , you can buy god in a pack of batteries according to you  , prayer is energy according to you and you  made up a big fat lie by saying power from prayer has been measured by Scienctists,  now you're throwing a tantrum because you know you demonstrated how st-pid you are ......maybe run along now and go back to your safe place 

Factfinder

@Joeseph

I don't as i dont believec in god but you certainly do as you said god is energy , you can buy god in a pack of batteries according to you  , prayer is energy according to you and you  made up a big fat lie by saying power from prayer has been measured by Scienctists,  now you're throwing a tantrum because you know you demonstrated how st-pid you are ......maybe run along now and go back to your safe place 

Amazing how many theists aren't content with their faith and feel they must argue for it in a logical, evidential way. Then feel insulted when it doesn't work out and people don't accept what they say at face value. Sounds like @PorfirioDiaz2 is preaching some weird version of scientology. The problem is any energy a scientist detects using monitoring equipment during peoples acts of prayer are natural energy fields not 'evidence of god' LOL. And praying has nothing to do with it. It's like these people never saw Predator or heard of night vision glasses! 

Joeseph

@Factfinder

I agree , and it's incredible they each think they have a killer argument that no Atheist can tackle. Regading this character and also his prayer claims I remember many years ago a trial was done on intercessionary prayerb where after extensive testing was done on test subjects the findings concluded those that were prayed for fared out slightly worse off than those not.

This guy is not alone in id-ocy Just lying keeps claiming there is no.morality without God admitting he wouldn't know how to behave without God's direction ,I've asked him for over a year now to post up a list of these set in stone god given moral dictates that only Christians are aware the reply for a year and counting ...silence.

I wish they could formulate a half decent argument amongst themselves,  the energy one made me laugh.

Factfinder

@Joeseph

And I too agree with you. Just one argument from Just_lying in his own words using his own rational would allow his audience to gain some perspective as to why he believes. Constant appeals to authority and ai repeatedly as if he's found vindication for his faith wreaks of indoctrination yet he don't see it.

Joeseph

@Factfinder


The amusing  thing is the guy is a Charismatic Pentecostal who believe in the Genesis account  as being historically accurate and that the Earth is only a few thousand years old and to make matters worse they believe they can heal , prophecise and speak in tounges yet he tries to hold forth on science and dare say its us who's position is faith based , hilarious really.

Factfinder

@Joeseph

I've pinned him down on the bible narrative in genesis and he worms around it by saying god isn't restricted by time and the things he creates can have the illusion of aged beyond their actual age. In other words his logic falls apart so he appeals to special magic of a god who subverts reality so he's fine with the narrative. That would be why he rarely makes his own case, he can't. 

MayCaesar

PorfirioDiaz2 said:

I know it might seem like you gooks are getting a one up on the argument with senseless counter arguments about god being a light switch and parents praying for children who have cancer. As cute as it might seem in your little mind, its a ridiculously invalid counter  argument by all means. Why? Because I can say the exact same thing to your argument. I can ask you to prove god is a light switch as you claim him to be or to prove god is responsible for those childrens deaths. If we're gona argue like children then you need a time out and stand in a corner for a bit. Throwing jibberish contractions at something you dont accept doesnt make you any better than me. We all have the same brain and same limits. Nothing special or better about yours other than what you allow to be fed. If you dont believe in anything or dont believe in god then indont understand the reason why u are sitting here arguing. Wouldnt that make you an eddiot? Arguing with someone about something that doesnt exist?. You wouldnt go to court to stand trial if you were never summoned right? You would look stoopid. Sort of like how you are now.

Lets not be stools here, if your answer to discredit anything ive said is backed by science then you should be able to explain why some scientific research studies result in the behavior of some particles in physics as unknown. Science nor anyone has a direct answer to why some particles behave the way they do. So when you come to me asking the same about god i could reflect the same. It is unclear to who or why at this moment but lets not pretend like you have all the right answers and half the population on earth is less brighter than you because they believe in god and not you.

That is a spectacular pair of paragraphs that does not contain any substance. All you said in essence is, "It is just like your opinion, man".

PorfirioDiaz2 said:

In all seriousness of this topic. I'd like to state that if you were to remove god from the lifes of all people, you, all, and I wouldnt be here sitting comfortably having this argument. Whether real or not god has put that little computer desk with the little ikea pillow that you bought so you wouldnt tire your buttocks because u never go outside. So be thankful and thenonly eddiot here is you.

The closest thing you resemble as an example right now is living life as a black man during the civil war and arguing to the court to re instate slavery into all the states.

Without god there would be chaos. To discredit him is the most dumbest move anyone could attempt.

What kind of chaos? Would it be, perhaps, something like the Crusades? Like the Caliphate's wars of conquest? Like the World Wars? We should thank god for the amount of order in our world: where would we be without him?

Joeseph

@Factfinder


the things he creates can have the illusion of aged beyond their actual age. 


That's incredible,   the amount of effort he puts into attempting to substantiate believing in nonsense is staggering.

just_sayin

Dreamer said:

@PorfirioDiaz2

Not the intercessory prayer debate again, another user has brought this up a lot. Poor studies that are basically designed to promote positive results through pure coincidence are used. If you have a study with a small sample sized and many end points you will get false positives, combine this with the file drawer effect and people only publishing positive results.

Many people think this cheapens religion.

"When a study has that many endpoints, one can expect to find a few positive correlations just by chance."

https://www.skepdoc.info/christianity-can-be-hazardous-to-your-health/

When people say factually inaccurate things like 'there is no evidence that prayer works', I feel compelled to repeat myself.  

1)  As I mentioned before - the majority of the evidence says prayer work.  Again, here is the quote:

There were 90 identified studies of which 45 had been conducted in clinical settings and 45 in laboratory settings. they reported that 71% of the clinical studies and 62% of the laboratory studies reported positive outcomes; and that the overall internal validity for the studies on distance healing was 75% for the clinical investigations and 81% for the laboratory investigations. So the bulk of studies shows prayer works.

Marilyn Schlitz, Ph.D., and lecturer at Harvard, says, “It's clear from the correlational studies within the epidemiology data that positive relationships exist between religious and spiritual practice and health outcomes on a variety of different conditions.” Moreover, she says that in a study and confirmation study on intercessory prayer, “the prayer groups had statistically significant improvements in outcome, suggesting that the intervention has clinical relevance.” - Fox News

In the recent National Center of Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) survey study I mentioned, a significantly high percentage of the population makes use of prayer for other people. Many people believe that if I pray for you, you will become better, or if you pray for me I'll become better, and yet we know very little of the mechanism to explain how this might happen. So this is a frontier area for research. To date, more than 180 studies have been done in this area, with more than half of them producing significant results. In these experiments, one person through their intention tries to influence the physiology or the physical condition of a target system, such as cell cultures, animal models, and there are human studies. As of March 2004, there have been nine controlled clinical trials looking at intercessory prayer (compassionate intention at a distance). Six of these have produced statistically significant positive results. For a complete list of these studies, one can visit the distant healing research site at the Institute of Noetic Sciences Web site (www.noetic.org). - Marilyn Schlitz, Meditation, Prayer and Spiritual Healing: The Evidence

2) lots of studies have shown that prayer works, for example:

From 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12776468/'

A systematic review of the quality of research on hands-on and distance healing: clinical and laboratory studies

Results: A total of 45 laboratory and 45 clinical studies published between 1956 and 2001 met the inclusion criteria. Of the clinical studies, 31 (70.5%) reported positive outcomes as did 28 (62%) of the laboratory studies; 4 (9%) of the clinical studies reported negative outcomes as did 15 (33%) of the laboratory studies. The mean percent overall internal validity for clinical studies was 69% (65% for hands-on healing and 75% for distance healing) and for laboratory studies 82% (82% for hands-on healing and 81% for distance healing). 

90 studies from reputable journals (see above context) have shown that prayer works. 

3) Medical training believes prayer works as it has been incorporated into training for doctors:

See Fox News: 

Researchers at the Heritage Foundation said, “We have a logical reason why religion might influence physical health through mental health, through enhancing social support, through influencing health behaviors, all affecting physical health outcomes.” So, at the very least, prayer is beneficial. It works. In fact, “Today, 101 medical schools incorporate patient spirituality in their curriculum, up from 17 in 1995. This fact suggests that these principles are being incorporated into medical education…”

4) More studies that show prayer works:

From Pub Med:

Effects of intercessory prayer on patients with rheumatoid arthritis

Results: Patients receiving in-person intercessory prayer showed significant overall improvement during 1-year follow-up. ..
Conclusions: In-person intercessory prayer may be a useful adjunct to standard medical care for certain patients with rheumatoid arthritis. 

From Sage Journals:

A Randomized Trial of the Effect of Prayer on Depression and Anxiety

Results:

At the completion of the trial, participants receiving the prayer intervention showed significant improvement of depression and anxiety, as well as increases of daily spiritual experiences and optimism compared to controls (p < 0.01 in all cases). Subjects in the prayer group maintained these significant improvements (p < 0.01 in all cases) for a duration of at least 1 month after the final prayer session. Participants in the control group did not show significant changes during the study. Cortisol levels did not differ significantly between intervention and control groups, or between pre- and post-prayer conditions.

Conclusions:

Direct contact person-to-person prayer may be useful as an adjunct to standard medical care for patients with depression and anxiety. Further research in this area is indicated.

The Effect of Prayer on Depression and Anxiety: Maintenance of Positive Influence One Year after Prayer Intervention

Results:

Evaluations post-prayer at 1 month and 1 year showed significantly less depression and anxiety, more optimism, and greater levels of spiritual experience than did the baseline (pre-prayer) measures (p < 0.01 in all cases).

Conclusions:

Subjects maintained significant improvements for a duration of at least 1 year after the final prayer session. Direct person-to-person prayer may be useful as an adjunct to standard medical care for patients with depression and anxiety. Further research in this area is indicated.

From JAMA

A Randomized, Controlled Trial of the Effects of Remote, Intercessory Prayer on Outcomes in Patients Admitted to the Coronary Care Unit

Results  Compared with the usual care group (n=524), the prayer group (n=466) had lower mean±SEM weighted (6.35±0.26 vs 7.13±0.27; P=.04) and unweighted (2.7±0.1 vs 3.0±0.1; P=.04) CCU course scores. Lengths of CCU and hospital stays were not different.

Conclusions  Remote, intercessory prayer was associated with lower CCU course scores. This result suggests that prayer may be an effective adjunct to standard medical care.

I referenced a few summary of prayer studies that showed that most prayer studies concluded that prayer works:

Such as:

A SYSTEMATIC REVIEW OF THE QUALITY OF RESEARCH ON HANDS-ON AND DISTANCE HEALING: CLINICAL AND LABORATORY STUDIES,

which examined the quality of studies of hands-on healing and distance healing that were published between 1955 and 2001. There were 90 identified studies of which 45 had been conducted in clinical settings and 45 in laboratory settings. they reported that 71% of the clinical studies and 62% of the laboratory studies reported positive outcomes; and that the overall internal validity for the studies on distance healing was 75% for the clinical investigations and 81% for the laboratory investigations. So the bulk of studies shows prayer works.

in a systematic review of distance prayer 

The Efficacy of “Distant Healing A Systematic Review of Randomized Trials

" Of these studies, 13 (57%) yielded statistically significant treatment effects favoring distant healing, nine showed no superiority of distant healing over control interventions and one showed a negative effect for distant healing. "

There are over 1200 studies on the effectiveness of prayer with the vast majority showing that prayer had statistically significant health results for the person being prayed for.  

It is nothing more than special pleading on the part of Dreamer, the Deacon, the not good enough to be a tenured professor, and the Little Dee clone to claim that there is no evidence that prayer works.  I have cited from Harvard, JAMA, and the NIH.  Dreamer cited from... what was it... from skepdoc.  LOL

PorfirioDiaz2

Hes probably am atheist because he was born to two g4y parents. I understand his feeling of feeling alone lead him to believe nothing exists.


Try a pottering class kid. Both of you are hilarious. Youre not amusing anyone. You look real pretty just pit picking the littlest things to churm the bucket around. See if you were homeless you'd be the one diving deep to the bottom of the bin head first just to see iwhat u find. You want to counter an argument counter it directly not point out something as stuped as a lightswitch

Joeseph

@PorfirioDiaz2


Ahh you want to act the tough guy Pancho firing off insults , so be it have some back .........

Hes probably am atheist because he was born to two g4y parents. I understand his feeling of feeling alone lead him to believe nothing exists.

Says the obese wet back typing away in mammy's basement.

Try a pottering class kid. Both of you are hilarious. Youre not amusing anyone. You look real pretty just pit picking the littlest things to churm the bucket around. See if you were homeless you'd be the one diving deep to the bottom of the bin head first just to see iwhat u find.

I'm not Mexican , you lot think fine dining is eating from a bin get back to your pool cleaning speedy Gonzales 


 You want to counter an argument counter it directly not point out something as stuped as a lightswitch

You're the one said God is energy not me then again you are Mexican so stooopidity is a norm.

PorfirioDiaz2

Bravo. Round of applause for the downy over here. Theres a patty in the hot tub.

When i stated god is energy i definately meant a lightswitch. 


Yes its true. Most people who are athiests are either born with a disability, were molested as a child, grew up with one parent, adopted by two g4ys, lived in foster homes, got bullied, are fat and ugly, have bad hygiene, work doing doordash or doing online surveys, most of these guys are the ones who fall for the mystery shopper scam. Very few of them have any good jobs which is why they are abundant online.


Ocer half the worlds population believes in a god and these funny ones still want to argue that the whole world is wrong. There is a reason why god and human have sustained a relationship since the beginning of time. There isna direct experience in peoples lives at some point or another whichcis shared among friends and family and so on. Otherwise god would have been yesterdays topic and he wouldnt be so popular today. People believe in god not by what they read in the book Alfredo. They believe ingod because of having their own experience. Unless you want to explain to me and convince me with a good answer to why half the worlds population believes in a god and explain to me why everyone is wrong.

Joeseph

@PorfirioDiaz2


You still want to act the tough Tex Mex so be it..........

PD's family after another busy days looting in the country that they illegally entered ..........





Bravo. Round of applause for the downy over here. Theres a patty in the hot tub.


Yes I'm applauding you for your genetic st-pidity , now what? Don't call your mummy a patty when you meant fatty.

When i stated god is energy i definately meant a lightswitch. 

We all know you did Pancho  and you also added anothef lie and said scientists say churches buzz with energy when people pray 

Yes its true. Most people who are athiests are either born with a disability, were molested as a child, grew up with one parent, adopted by two g4ys, lived in foster homes, got bullied, are fat and ugly, have bad hygiene, work doing doordash or doing online surveys, most of these guys are the ones who fall for the mystery shopper scam

Leave Mexicans out of this.


. Very few of them have any good jobs which is why they are abundant online.

You mean like  Mexicans ? Or your mum hauling her burrito a-s downtown to suck d-ck to  support her meth head son who thinks god is a ......lightswitch .......seriously.....

Ocer half the worlds population believes in a god and these funny ones still want to argue that the whole world is wrong. There is a reason why god and human have sustained a relationship since the beginning of time. There isna direct experience in peoples lives at some point or another whichcis shared among friends and family and so on. Otherwise god would have been yesterdays topic and he wouldnt be so popular today.

Oh look at that Pancho is preaching now.


People believe in god not by what they read in the book Alfredo. They believe ingod because of having their own experience.

Whats your last experience with God Pancho? Turning the light on


Unless you want to explain to me and convince me with a good answer to why half the worlds population believes in a god and explain to me why everyone is wrong.

That's called an appeal to authority Pancho it's a bit like  saying because most Mexican men say they never f-cked your mum it's true when you and your mum know it's not.

Factfinder

@Joeseph

I see this debate has deteriorate to the bottom. Let me guess, another case of the theist gets angry and defensive in light of being confronted with facts and reason? 

Joeseph

@Factfinder

It's tragic isn't it , this tough guy from the off spouted utter nonsense then decided to act the tough guy and smart a-s I warned him and I know I shouldn't but I get sick and tired of every so called Christian on here who can never just debate without lying or firing off constant insults.

Wouldn't it be marvellous if even one christian could argue intelligently without taking everything so personally?

Factfinder

@Joeseph

Wouldn't it be marvellous if even one christian could argue intelligently without taking everything so personally?

The problem is most Christian that could argue intelligently become apostates. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

It is the cognitively challenged, the stu-pid and illogical, that denies the necessity for our Creator. These are those who belong to Satan...they represent the hopelessness of a dying and lost World.

just_sayin

Rather than personally attack atheists let's just summarize some of the evidence for God's existence:

The question of evidence for the existence of God is complex and spans various fields, including cosmology, biology, and historical analysis. Here is a summary of arguments and evidence often cited by proponents:

## Creation of the Universe

1. **Big Bang Theory**: The universe's beginning with the Big Bang suggests a singular starting point, which some argue points to a Creator. The idea that the universe had a beginning aligns with the biblical account of creation, where God is said to have created the heavens and the earth from nothing[4][5].

2. **Causation Principle**: Anything that begins to exist must have a cause. Since the universe began to exist, some argue it must have a cause outside itself, which they identify as God[4].

## Fine-Tuning of the Universe

1. **Physical Constants**: The precise values of physical constants that allow for life are seen by some as evidence of design. The "fine-tuning" argument suggests that the universe's conditions are precisely set to allow life, which some believe indicates intentional calibration by a Creator[4].

## Complexity of DNA

1. **Information Content**: DNA's complex information content is often compared to a language or code, suggesting to some an intelligent source behind its origin. The intricate structure and function of DNA in guiding biological processes are seen as unlikely to arise purely by chance[1].

2. **Challenges in Abiogenesis**: The difficulties in explaining how life could arise from non-living matter (abiogenesis) through natural processes alone lead some to argue for a Creator who initiated life[5].

## Miracles

1. **Miracle of Calanda**: This refers to an event where Miquel Pellicer's amputated leg was restored in 1640. Such events are cited as evidence of divine intervention.[5].

2. **Medically Documented Miracles**: There are instances of inexplicable healings that defy medical explanation, suggesting supernatural involvement.

## Efficacy of Prayer

1. **Studies on Prayer**: A majority of studies suggest positive effects of prayer on health outcomes.

## Resurrection of Jesus

1. **Historical Claims**: The resurrection of Jesus is central to Christian belief and is argued by some historians based on historical documents and eyewitness accounts recorded in the New Testament. The transformation of Jesus' followers and the rapid growth of early Christianity are often cited as supporting evidence for the resurrection.

Citations:

[1] https://answersingenesis.org/creation/

[2] https://www.oasisacademybrightstowe.org/uploaded/Brightstowe/Learning/RE_-_YR_8_JGR.pdf

[3] https://gospelway.com/god/evidences-creation.php

[4] https://www.everystudent.com/wires/universe.html

[5] https://lifehopeandtruth.com/god/is-there-a-god/does-god-exist-proof-1-origin-of-the-universe/

[6] https://www.tomorrowsworld.org/magazines/2005/may-june/seven-proofs-of-gods-existence

[7] https://www.ucg.org/beyond-today/beyond-today-magazine/seven-scientific-proofs-of-god

[8] https://www.icr.org/Evidence/

Factfinder

@just_sayin


Rather than personally attack atheists let's just summarize some of the evidence for God's existence:


Still waiting. Maybe have someone explain the following to you first...

Empirical evidence: empirical evidence, information gathered directly or indirectly through observation or experimentation that may be used to confirm or disconfirm a scientific theory or to help justify, or establish as reasonable, a person’s belief in a given proposition. A belief may be said to be justified if there is sufficient evidence to make holding the belief reasonable. https://www.britannica.com/topic/empirical-evidence ;

No one saw god grow back a leg the one and only time in history?
Observed flesh regeneration repeatedly by scientific experimentation conducted at the statute in Calanda? No?
Answered prayers mean god said 'yes' if you get your wish, 'no' if you don't?
RNA/DNA links tracible back to your specific myth god? No?
No blood evidence of 100s of zombie walking around with the supposed Jewish zombie messiah? None?
People telling stories and repeating stories they heard?
The universe is fine tuned for life and that's why it's just buzzing with it from one end of it to the other? No?

Sorry, none of that qualifies as evidence. Please check with reality.

MayCaesar

PorfirioDiaz2 said:

Bravo. Round of applause for the downy over here. Theres a patty in the hot tub.

When i stated god is energy i definately meant a lightswitch. 


Yes its true. Most people who are athiests are either born with a disability, were molested as a child, grew up with one parent, adopted by two g4ys, lived in foster homes, got bullied, are fat and ugly, have bad hygiene, work doing doordash or doing online surveys, most of these guys are the ones who fall for the mystery shopper scam. Very few of them have any good jobs which is why they are abundant online.


Ocer half the worlds population believes in a god and these funny ones still want to argue that the whole world is wrong. There is a reason why god and human have sustained a relationship since the beginning of time. There isna direct experience in peoples lives at some point or another whichcis shared among friends and family and so on. Otherwise god would have been yesterdays topic and he wouldnt be so popular today. People believe in god not by what they read in the book Alfredo. They believe ingod because of having their own experience. Unless you want to explain to me and convince me with a good answer to why half the worlds population believes in a god and explain to me why everyone is wrong.

Oh, this one is easy: it is the same reason why over a billion of people in the world believe in communism. Some ideologies have great marketing and make a lot of promises to their proponents.

Interesting how almost everyone I know working on Wall Street is an atheist. This is a good example of the marketing I was talking about: the reality does not at all agree with your beliefs - but your beliefs have been instilled in you by those who sought to control your life, and the conditioning overrides any factual observations you can make.

If you do not believe me, feel free to look at the actual data: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/10/11/how-income-varies-among-u-s-religious-groups/ Door-dashing atheists, huh?

Factfinder

@PorfirioDiaz2

There isna direct experience in peoples lives at some point or another whichcis shared among friends and family and so on. Otherwise god would have been yesterdays topic and he wouldnt be so popular today

Stories passed on, till they're not or altered. Most of the thousands of imagined gods are 'yesterdays' topic. There is no reason to think the Abrahamic gods will not follow suit.

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw



RickeyHoltsclaw, the number one BIBLE FOOL and run away of same!

RickeyHoltsclaw, have you given it any more thought in leaving your Death Cult Christianity since you cannot defend it, other than to tell Atheists they are going to hell?  Just think in what you will gain in leaving this cult, whereas for the most part, you wouldn't have to be made the continuous BIBLE FOOL of this Religion Forum!

Rickey, like I had shown you in the link below that you are afraid to open because there're too many facts that show you need to leave your primitive thinking Bronze and Iron Age Death Cult faith of christianity in the 21st Century!  
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/194439/#Comment_194439

Yes, the Atheists know outright that you are embarrassed about your brutal serial killer Jesus as god that murdered innocent fetus,' infants, babies, and children ad infinitum, notwithstanding, where he made parents actually eat their children!  I know, who wouldn't be embarrassed with Jesus acting this way, but yet Jesus is supposed to be ever loving and forgiving, NOT, I don't think so!

I will check back with you, and if need be, I will happily help you leave the primitive thinking Bronze and Iron Age thinking of the Bible, where you will gain freedom from this poison that it represents, and enter the 21st Century of science and reason, praise Zeus!!!



THE IMAGE BELOW SHOWS WHAT IRRATIONAL THINKING
"RICKEYHOLTSCLAW" HAS TO ACCEPT WHEN BEING
 A DUMBFOUNDED PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN!







.

just_sayin

@Factfinder
Empirical evidence: empirical evidence, information gathered directly or indirectly through observation or experimentation that may be used to confirm or disconfirm a scientific theory or to help justify, or establish as reasonable, a person’s belief in a given proposition. A belief may be said to be justified if there is sufficient evidence to make holding the belief reasonable. https://www.britannica.com/topic/empirical-evidence ;

No one saw god grow back a leg the one and only time in history?
Observed flesh regeneration repeatedly by scientific experimentation conducted at the statute in Calanda? No?

If just one miracle occurred then there is evidence that God exists.

You are correct no one saw the leg grow back sometime between 10:30 and 11 pm on March 29, 1640.  However there is lots of evidence it did.

Let's see if there is any 'empirical evidence' for the miracle of Calanda (Miguel Juan Pellicer)
1) Within 36 hours after the event, medical doctors had examined Pellicer after his leg had regrown - so says their official testimony and report
2) Notarized testimony was taken by Royal Notary Miguel Andréu on April 2, 1640, just four days after the event. 
3) 2 surgeons who amputated the leg testified under oath that they amputated the leg '4 fingers below the knee'
4) There were over 100 witnesses who volunteered to testify under oath.  Only 24 were permitted to testify under oath though to keep the documentation only to the most important testimonies.  Among those who testified: Doctors and health workers (5 people), including the surgeon who amputated his leg, family members and neighbors (5 people), local authorities (4 people), ecclesiastical authorities (4 people), and various other people (6 people, including two innkeepers from Samper de Calanda and Zaragoza).
5) Medical records of the amputation show Pellicer's leg was amputated
6) Medical records from a team of doctors appointed by the court to investigate the event confirm that the leg had regrown
7) On April 27, 1641, the Archbishop of Zaragoza officially declared the authenticity of the miracle after an extensive canonical process.
8) Dr. Juan de Estanga, described as "Professor of Surgery at the city university of Saragossa," in the official investigation.  He testified under oath that he amputated the leg, and provided medical documentation of Pellicer's surgery and convalescence.
9) Royal notary Miguel Andréu certified the facts of the case in a legally drawn deed.  Meaning that Spain officially recognized the miracle and that it had been vetted in court proceedings.

That's a lot of historical documentation - about 1,000 pages worth.   

To believe the atheist one has to:
1) Pretend there is no evidence
2) Claim that the doctor who amputated the leg is lying
3) Claim that the assisting doctor who saw the amputation was lying
4) Claim that the guy who buried the leg in the graveyard of the hospital was lying
5) Claim that the chaplain at the hospital who interacted with Pellicer for several months while he convalesced was lying
6) Claim that the official city documents from Zaragoza where Pellicer had to have a physical exam to get a license to beg were forged
7) Claim that the official city document from Calanda where Pellicer moved back to and had to have a physical exam to get a license to beg were forged
8) Claim that the officials who physically examined Pellicer in Zaragosa and Calanda before issuing a beggar's license lied under oath, risking execution
9) Claim that Pellicer's parents lied about their son's amputation and leg restoration
10) Claim that the soldier who was staying in the home of Pellicer's parents the night the leg was restored lied 
11) Claim that the team of medical doctors and university professors who examined Pellicer after his leg was restored lied under oath
12) Claim that the 5 family friends and neighbors who testified under oath about the amputation and the leg restoration lied under oath.
13) Claim that the two innkeepers who testified to Pellicer's right leg's condition under oath lied
14) Claim that all the other towns people who volunteered to testify lied about having seen Pellicer with an amputated leg and then seeing him restored fully

Wow!!!!  Is there any empirical evidence of any thing that the atheists claim?  Nope.  Hard to believe such a huge conspiracy theory - but that is what would have had to have happened for the event to have been faked.  

Where is your evidence Deacon Factless?  The fact is you don't have any.  

I just don't have the faith to believe in conspiracy theories as big as you believe in.  I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.