I believe that we should accept gay and trans people, along with others under those spectrums for who they are. However, I think that when people start using rat/rats as their pronouns, we shouldn't validate them. It's fine if you start using a new set of pronouns, for instance, you were born a boy, transitioned, and now people see you as a woman, but it's just dumb to identify with any word in the dictionary like this. It just gives people more ammunition to hurl at the LGBTQ community. Most people don't identify as a cat, but the ones that do get a lot of attention. Speaking of identifying as different species, I know people are going to compare being trans to this. I'll include a quote for everyone from comparing being trans to identifying as inanimate objects and species of animals.
"Yet, there is a marked difference between wanting to be another gender, considering the range and complexity of human gender, and wanting to be another species, something that is impossible...The one-animal-yearns-to-be-another construct at its heart, is a misunderstanding of what it means to be transgender."
-Parrish Turner
Post Argument Now Debate Details +
Arguments
I believe that we should accept gay and trans people, along with others under those spectrums for who they are
But most people do I would think , yet you think it's dumb to identify with something that's not on your preferred list of identities , that's demonstrate an inconsistency in your reasoning.
However, I think that when people start using rat/rats as their pronouns, we shouldn't validate them. It's fine if you start using a new set of pronouns, for instance, you were born a boy, transitioned, and now people see you as a woman, but it's just dumb to identify with any word in the dictionary like this. It just gives people more ammunition to hurl at the LGBTQ community. Most people don't identify as a cat, but the ones that do get a lot of attention. Speaking of identifying as different species, I know people are going to compare being trans to this. I'll include a quote for everyone from comparing being trans to identifying as inanimate objects and species of animals.
But what youre doing what you're doing now is exactly what others have accused those who criticise the LGBTQ community of, saying its dumb is not an argument , to be consistent you have to demonstrate why you think it's dumnb, let's take Otherkins for an example......
WIKI
The term otherkin includes a broad range of identities. Otherkin may identify as creatures of the natural world, mythology, or popular culture.[7] Examples include but are not limited to the following: aliens, angels, demons, dragons, elves, fairies, horses, foxes, wolves, sprites, unicorns, and fictional characters.[8][9][10][11] Rarer are those who identify as plants, machines, concepts, or natural phenomena such as weather systems.[12]
"Yet, there is a marked difference between wanting to be another gender, considering the range and complexity of human gender, and wanting to be another species, something that is impossible...The one-animal-yearns-to-be-another construct at its heart, is a misunderstanding of what it means to be transgender."
OK explain to me the difference between someone who claims to be Demigender or one who claims to be a rat?
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The notion that gender is 'all in the mind' is bull. If gender is only in the mind and not about the body parts one has then people wouldn't want to cut off their penises and breasts. If you have to add or cut off body parts to feel like you are a certain gender, then gender is about the physical body parts. The fact is you can't discuss any of the 756 (or whatever the number is this week) genders without referencing biological males and females. Try defining who a lesbian is attracted to without referencing either physical body parts or stereotypes of what a woman is.
Adults should be free to live their lives as they see fit. But it is unjust for them to demand that we must participate in their self delusion. I should not be forced to use pronouns that do not match their biological sex, especially if my religious beliefs are that God made us male and female,
Since minors do not have the agency to fully comprehend the unintended consequences of prolonged puberty blockers or sex change operations, I can't support someone wanting to mutilate a minor's body, especially since studies show that minors who identify as a gender different than their body will not do so by the time they become an adult.
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Hello Jack, I totally agree which is why I'm curious as to why our new user asks us all to treat others rhe way we wish to be treated yet he then doesn't want to do so with groups he calls " dumb"
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I accept the fact that someone claims to be a gender that he is not, but I do not accept the claim itself unconditionally.
While I enjoyed your entire post this sentence stood out as profound wisdom and truth. I respect what others want to identify as too, but not to the point I must accept that it's reasonable to have a biological males in female only sports. They've still got the male upper body advantage even if they go all the way in the transgender journey. Nor do I accept I must believe them every bit as a woman as females who are born with an uterus and can carry a baby to term. They are not the same sex at the end of the day.
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@RickeyHoltsclaw
Some might say that rejecting reality, also means devoting ones existence to the adulation of mythical Middle Eastern folk heroes.
Though the overriding principle that I always abide by, is:
Everything that occurs within a Universe at an given moment, is naturally occurring.
Religion and transsexualism alike.
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I would say that atheism is a complete rejection of logic and reality as the Bible clearly explains our origin and our eschatological destiny and this is under girded by flawless prophecy that is still unfolding before our very eyes...you people are too arrogant and stu-pid to acknowledge this because you are tools and fo-ols of Satan
Says the one who believes in magical fairytale elf gods/mythical characters like Satan and that Kangaroos migrated from Mt. Ararat over 7000 miles to Australia only some 6000 years ago. Not leaving a trace of evidence and just after disembarking from a boat built too small according to biblical specs to hold all animals of the earth on and the supporting livestock. So how in your logic Ricky how did plants grow on earth before the sun existed again?
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1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
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@Foxtrot22024
If a bloke want's to chop his balls of and call himself Betty.
What the feck do I care.
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@RickeyHoltsclaw
Everything that occurs within a Universe at any given moment, is naturally occurring.
Ergo normal.
You just need to be tolerant of the ongoing new normal.
Chill out Rickey.
Throw out the old books and go commune with nature.
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Ecclesiastes 1:9
New International Version
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
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Polywhatever quote All religions involve a relationship with deity quit acting like your special your religion is nothing more or less than any other religion. It's only 2,000 years old and you're constantly trying to shove your religion in the places to prove it's true because you have no faith
He does have a point, Rick. If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. But please stop preaching to other people that it is wrong, and getting in their faces about it. . Abortion is now accepted everywhere and if Christians who oppose abortion don't just leave people alone who do support abortion, then most people wiil become hostile to you. Which, I presume is the real reason why Polywhatever is so hostile to your religion?
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What the eff are you talking about?
You don't say "fake religion" just like you don't say "French Champaigne".
Like what the?
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OK explain to me the difference between someone who claims to be Demigender or one who claims to be a rat?
Don't know if this was already answered, but Demigender is someone who identifies somewhat with a gender, but not fully. It falls under the non-binary umbrella. Identifying as a rat is a falsehood weaponized by homophobes to de-legitimize the LGBTQ+ community. Almost nobody identifies as an animal in a completely physical way (no, furries don't count). I would also like to say that Otherkin is a fringe spiritual belief that can be somewhat co-opted into the LGBTQ+ community via xenogenders, which are usually either ironic or describe feelings. Same with therian. Hope this explains it, if not I would be happy to give a bit more specificity.
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Biological sex is decided by chromosomes, we all learned this during biology. Recently (unless you count the german place that got burnt down) there has been evidence that the brain's idea of gender is not necessarily in-line with the biological sex, of course, one is much more likely to identify as their biological sex, but someone identifying as another gender makes scientifical sense and is normal enough to be documented, the reason that this evidence is being found so recently is that societal norms have suppressed subversive ideas on gender or the societies that did have it didn't really document too many transgender people. What has been documented are non-binary priests in India, who were only referred to by name and did not have a gender.
TLDR: Biological sex usually influences gender identity, but sometimes it doesn't, and it makes scientific sense that sometimes it doesn't
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Just for clearing it up, what do you consider a "stereotype" about gender? A biological male can identify as a woman due to how the brain works with gender, the brain sees it as just a concept and treats it as such. The separation in sex and gender is the way the body approaches it, sex is concrete and unchangeable, but gender is malleable and can be decided over time. So a woman has 2 definitions, one concrete, and one fluid. Either XX chromosomes, or the brain deciding upon the female gender. Do note that gender science is still developing and there could be a discovery that links gender to some biological function (there are already early studies suggesting that could be the case). If gender IS decided and concrete at some point in an individual's life, I will note that and correct myself, but for now, I hope my current answer suffices.
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Don't know if this was already answered, but Demigender is someone who identifies somewhat with a gender, but not fully.
You mean someone who is mixed up?
It falls under the non-binary umbrella
A pile of nonsense.
. Identifying as a rat is a falsehood weaponized by homophobes to de-legitimize the LGBTQ+ community.
No it's not and that's Ratist as it's a slur on rats.
Almost nobody identifies as an animal in a completely physical way (no, furries don't count).
I've never heard of anyone in real life tell me they were non binary either, so ?
I would also like to say that Otherkin is a fringe spiritual belief that can be somewhat co-opted into the LGBTQ+ community via xenogenders, which are usually either ironic or describe feelings
What a load of clap trap is anyone meant to take this seriously?
. Same with therian
" therian" ....LOL
. Hope this explains it, if not I would be happy to give a bit more specificity.
Thanks for the effort , I learned biology at school scientifically we were told there's male and female or confused that's it's, let's not complicate simple matters by pretending otherwise,
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Your argument does not make much sense. You are basically decoupling gender from sex. If gender really is separate sex, then what is it? Is it just an arbitrary label like a name? My name is May, and my gender is Caesar - is that how it works?
The older term "transsexual" makes more sense to me: a person has one biological sex, but feels belonging to another (which is a very well documented phenomenon going back millennia). "Transgender", on the other hand, is something outlandish. What is "gender" in the first place if it is not the same as sex? Are there any limitations on what I can call my "gender", or is it constrained by some properties of my organism?
It seems to me that by jumping from sex to ill-defined "gender", the ideologues undermined their own position. Where previously they wanted to protect the rights and ensure respectful treatment of the people who feel detached from their biological sex, now they are instead accommodating weirdos with pink hair and a gazillion adjectives.
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The overwhelming majority of people see your "explanation" as pure lunacy. "Transgenderism" being forced down the public's throats in the USA was probably one of the most important reason why Trump won in a landslide. Left wing DEI hire academics can drone on and on about self serving social theories, but the public will never accept that a man can magically turn into a woman just by putting on a dress and saying that he is a woman. To accept that gender is "fluid" is to open up a can of worms with all sorts of unintended consequences for the whole of society. From "transgender" inmates in female prisons getting female prisoners pregnant, to sex offenders who like exposing themselves to women going into female showers, change rooms, and locker rooms, taking off all of their clothes and walking around with erections, to completely destroying female spots.
One amusing situation occured on TV when there was yet another left wing panel of "experts" analyzing why the Dems lost the election. A black guy suggested that the Democrats support for boys claiming to be girls was absolutely opposed by the overwhelming majority of electors. Instead of discussing this rationally, a white "expert" across the table simply started screaming at the top of his voice, "trans men are women! Trans men are women! Trans men are women!
These people are lunatics and it shows. .
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@Jules1, I agree, this was the argument I was trying to make when I first posted this, but I can't word things so I'm glad you said this. Anyways, I am fine with whatever gender or sexuality someone has, because it doesn't affect me. What bothers me is when people against LGBT make up fake identities completely unrelated to this to try and prove a false point.
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Sex and gender are usually linked, but there are exceptions, like trans and non-binary people.
Transsexual was changed due to the confusion with homosexual, as adding sexual to the end now evokes the idea of attraction to a certain gender(s).
Gender is limited to the 6 basic pronouns: She/Her, He/Him, They/Them. Though one can mix and match these according to their gender identity.
Weirdos with pink hair are still that, weirdos with pink hair. No matter their set of pronouns there will always be weirdos, using the existence of weirdos to justify hate against certain groups of people is a bad argument. There are people on the right with SS skull tattoos and claim we need genocide, does that represent the whole right? No, it would be silly to represent the worst of a group of people and claim it is the norm.
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Anyways, I am fine with whatever gender or sexuality someone has, because it doesn't affect me.
But you said ..........
but it's just dumb to identify with any word in the dictionary like this.
So if someone identifies as a cow you and Jules brand them "dumb" yet it doesnt affect either of you can you resolve this total contradictory stance?
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I do not brand people who like anthropomorphic animals 'dumb'. I am simply saying that there is next to no one who actually identifies as one, of course there are some, as there is one of anything, but using it against LGBTQ+ identities as a 'gotcha' is simply horrid.
Please, tell me, when did I call anyone who identifies as any specific thing "dumb"?
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I do not brand people who like anthropomorphic animals 'dumb'.
That's correct you didn't , my bad but what you said was just as bad and totally incorrect as in ........
Identifying as a rat is a falsehood weaponized by homophobes.......
That's untrue and is doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing as you're branding those who disagree with you as " homophobes"
You have contradictory views you cannot have it both ways
I am simply saying that there is next to no one who actually identifies as one, of course there are some, as there is one of anything, but using it against LGBTQ+ identities as a 'gotcha' is simply horrid.
How do you know how many do? How many does there have to be to make the group part of LGBTQ+ COMMUNITY? Isn't the plus sign meant to mean your designation will find acceptance and support?
Again I'm not using it against anyone its all in my opening remarks, I'm objecting to the fact that the OP branded anyone who wasn't in his prefered grouping "dumb"
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Do you accept these 72 gender types also? If not why not?
Besides male and female, there are 72 other genders, which include the following:
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this debate was a dumb post I made after an argument with a friend I had. I don't even know what to think anymore...
It's all good , no worries.
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You just showed different versions of being gender fluid or xenogenders, which I support. Most xenogenders describe feelings toward gender, and are not meant to be a standalone identity. Genderfluid is just going with the flow when it comes to gender, I don't see the problem with it.
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Right so identifying as Astralgender you're fine with yet if one identifies as a rat you say ....Identifying as a rat is a falsehood weaponized by homophobes...
Do explain as you admit you accept Astralgender but not someone who identifies as a rat as you stipulated.....I am simply saying that there is next to no one who actually identifies as one.....so using your criteria those identifying as Astralgender are homophobes right?
BTW the OP has admitted his mistake in posting up, your position is lost time to move on.
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Being a rat is different than having a feeling about your gender. They are not even close to similar. I agree about stopping the debate here, I really dislike speaking about gender here considering it eventually gets jumped by Rickey or Bogan.
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