Examples of Deplorable Christian Bible Morality!

21CenturyIconoclast

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DISGUSTING BIBLE MORALITY NUMBER ONE:

Lot’s two daughters having ungodly incestual sex with their father, is okay with Jesus as god since he sees all things (Hebrews 4:13) and didn’t do anything about this ungodly act like Jesus did at other times when his Jewish Creation displeased him!

THE BIBLE VERSE IN QUESTION:
“ Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.” That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.  The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.”  So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father.” (Genesis 19:32-36) 

1. Uh, if Lot wasn’t aware of his daughters having sex with him, then how did he get a “hard on” to be able to climax to impregnate them?!!!

2. This is a story of INCEST within the scriptures, and is another reason the Bible should be removed from all libraries post haste!

3. The two daughters went directly against the following Jesus inspired verse: “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness.” (Leviticus 18:6-7)

4. Can you believe that both daughters became pregnant by their father Lot, and the Bible is supposed to give godly morals?!  NOT!

SIDEBAR: We can only wonder that if RickeyHoltsclaw's wife ever died before he wanted more children, and where if he has one or more daughters, Rickey therefore could biblically sleep with his daughter(s) to impregnate them, because Jesus took a “blinds eye” to this incestuous act before as shown in the verse above with Lot and his daughters! 2+2=4.  

I know I don’t have to preach to the Atheists, whereas the JUDEO-Christian bible is just full of family incest with its notable characters, where pseudo-christians believe their bible is full of good morals, which will be shown is NOT true!  

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RickeyHoltsclaw

@21CenturyIconoclast ; Jesus is the God of all...Time and Eternity and He is perfect and holy in all His ways and Jesus is your Creator and your Messiah and your Judge. Your theological ignorance is no excuse for your blasphemy which will receive its due at your Judgment preceding adjudication in Hell.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Jesus is the God of all..

That includes evil. 

Isaiah 45 5-7: 5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

just_sayin

21CenturyIconoclast said:

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DISGUSTING BIBLE MORALITY NUMBER ONE:

Lot’s two daughters having ungodly incestual sex with their father, is okay with Jesus as god since he sees all things (Hebrews 4:13) and didn’t do anything about this ungodly act like Jesus did at other times when his Jewish Creation displeased him!

THE BIBLE VERSE IN QUESTION:
“ Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.” That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.  The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.”  So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father.” (Genesis 19:32-36) 

1. Uh, if Lot wasn’t aware of his daughters having sex with him, then how did he get a “hard on” to be able to climax to impregnate them?!!!

2. This is a story of INCEST within the scriptures, and is another reason the Bible should be removed from all libraries post haste!

3. The two daughters went directly against the following Jesus inspired verse: “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness.” (Leviticus 18:6-7)

4. Can you believe that both daughters became pregnant by their father Lot, and the Bible is supposed to give godly morals?!  NOT!

SIDEBAR: We can only wonder that if RickeyHoltsclaw's wife ever died before he wanted more children, and where if he has one or more daughters, Rickey therefore could biblically sleep with his daughter(s) to impregnate them, because Jesus took a “blinds eye” to this incestuous act before as shown in the verse above with Lot and his daughters! 2+2=4.  

I know I don’t have to preach to the Atheists, whereas the JUDEO-Christian bible is just full of family incest with its notable characters, where pseudo-christians believe their bible is full of good morals, which will be shown is NOT true!  

.

You can't really be serious.  There is a difference in prescriptive and descriptive passages.  Are you seriously suggesting that the Bible is holding up the example of Lot and his daughters and their actions???  The Bible is relating the account, not endorsing their behavior.  You can't be that du-mb?  That's like blaming a judge for the crimes of the people who come in his court because he read off the charges against them.  

1. Uh, if Lot wasn’t aware of his daughters having sex with him, then how did he get a “hard on” to be able to climax to impregnate them?!!!

Let's ask AI if it is possible to get so drunk that you don't remember having sex the night before:

Yes, it is indeed possible to become so intoxicated that one does not remember having sex or other activities from the previous night. This phenomenon is commonly associated with what is known as a "blackout."

    Understanding Blackouts

    A blackout refers to a period of alcohol-induced amnesia during which a person engages in actions such as walking or talking but has no recollection of those events later. Blackouts occur when alcohol consumption reaches a certain level, typically resulting in a high blood alcohol concentration (BAC) that interferes with the brain's ability to form new memories. 

    Mechanisms Behind Blackouts

    1. **Blood Alcohol Concentration**: Blackouts generally happen when a person's BAC reaches around 0.14% or higher. At this level, the brain's memory formation processes are disrupted, primarily affecting the hippocampus, the area responsible for consolidating new memories. Individuals may remain conscious and can perform activities, yet they will lack memory recall of events that occur during the period of intoxication.

    2. **Rapid Drinking**: Consuming alcohol quickly can lead to increased BAC levels and a higher risk of blackouts. For instance, drinking several shots in a short timeframe can cause a blackout even if the total amount of alcohol consumed is not exceptionally high.

    3. **Comparing Blackouts and Passing Out**: It’s essential to differentiate between blacking out and passing out. While passed-out individuals are unconscious and cannot engage in activities, those experiencing blackouts appear to function normally but do not retain memories of their actions.

    Risks Associated with Blackouts

    Experiencing a blackout is an indicator of high intoxication and can be dangerous. Risks include:

- Engaging in unsafe sexual practices without consent or awareness, leading to potential future emotional and physical consequences.

- Engaging in risky behaviors, such as driving under the influence, which can lead to accidents or legal issues.

- Increased susceptibility to injuries or accidents due to impaired judgment and physical coordination.

    Conclusion

    In summary, it is indeed possible to become so intoxicated that one does not remember having sex or other significant activities due to the occurrence of blackouts. The phenomenon reflects the brain's vulnerability to high levels of alcohol and underscores the importance of moderation and awareness of one's consumption to safeguard personal safety and well-being. Understanding the risks and consequences associated with heavy drinking is essential for making informed choices.

Sources: 

[1] What to do if I can't remember if I had drunken sex? | Go Ask Alice!, https://goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/what-do-if-i-cant-remember-if-i-had-drunken-sex

[2] Blacking Out: The Dangers and Causes - Alcohol Help, https://www.alcoholhelp.com/alcohol/blacking-out/

[3] You Don't Have To Pass Out To Be Blackout Drunk | GBH - WGBH, https://www.wgbh.org/news/national/2018-10-04/you-dont-have-to-pass-out-to-be-blackout-drunk

[4] Interrupted Memories: Alcohol-Induced Blackouts, https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/interrupted-memories-alcohol-induced-blackouts

[5] What Happened? Alcohol, Memory Blackouts, and the Brain - PMC, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6668891/

[6] Alcohol and memory loss - Priory Group, https://www.priorygroup.com/blog/alcohol-and-memory-loss

[7] What causes blackouts? Symptoms, treatment, prevention, and more, https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-causes-blackouts

[8] Alcohol and Memory Loss: Connection, Research, and Treatment, https://www.healthline.com/health/alcoholism/alcohol-and-memory-loss

[9] Alcohol-related brain damage (ARBD): what is it and who gets it?, https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/types-dementia/alcohol-related-brain-damage-arbd

[10] Alcohol and Memory Loss, https://alcohol.org/health-effects/memory-loss/

[11] I blacked out and don't remember having s*x : r/relationship_advice, https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r3up8a/i_blacked_out_and_dont_remember_having_sx/

[12] Can you be so drunk that you don't remember having sex ... - Quora, https://www.quora.com/Can-you-be-so-drunk-that-you-dont-remember-having-sex-and-who-you-had-sex-with

Apparently, it is a thing.  Did you really not know that people can get blackout drunk??

2. This is a story of INCEST within the scriptures, and is another reason the Bible should be removed from all libraries post haste!

The Bible is relaying what happened.  It isn't inviting others to join in.  I can't believe you are pushing such an obviously false narrative.

3. The two daughters went directly against the following Jesus inspired verse: “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness.” (Leviticus 18:6-7)

While what the daughters did was deceptive and wrong, it could not have violated Leviticus, because Leviticus had not been written yet, and would not for about 500 more years after the daughters behaviors.  You get that right?  You can't break a law until the law exists.  Does that make sense to you?

4. Can you believe that both daughters became pregnant by their father Lot, and the Bible is supposed to give godly morals?! 

Again, you have confused something that is descriptive and claimed it was prescriptive.  Paul wrote that the Bible relayed events in the Old Testament to sometimes be examples and warnings to us of things to not do (see 1 Corinthians 10).  

SIDEBAR: We can only wonder that if RickeyHoltsclaw's wife ever died before he wanted more children, and where if he has one or more daughters, Rickey therefore could biblically sleep with his daughter(s) to impregnate them, because Jesus took a “blinds eye” to this incestuous act before as shown in the verse above with Lot and his daughters! 2+2=4.  

Your taunts and bullying of Rickey are concerning.  Have you been diagnosed with ASPD?  This is not normal healthy behavior.  

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; The KJV translation of Isaiah 45:7 is incorrect...the Hebrew "ra" is actually calamity, not evil. The New King James Version makes this correction for you.

Isaiah 45:7

New King James Version

7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’

RickeyHoltsclaw

@21CenturyIconoclast ; The Bible hides nothing from you...the depravity of humanity is exposed for all to see. Your depravity is there as well and without Jesus as your Messiah, you will die in Hell due that depravity.

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Jesus is the God of all..

That includes evil. 

Isaiah 45 5-7: 5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Rickey is right, the translation is 'calamity'.  Evil is not a created thing.  It is the privation of good.  Just as darkness is not a tangible entity, but the absence of light.  Evil is the absence of good.  

The Jews did not have a dualistic view of the world, where good things come from God and bad things come from the devil.  In their minds the Devil was never God's equal, so everything, either directly or indirectly, flows from God - either by his actions, or his allowing our free will.  

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; The KJV translation of Isaiah 45:7 is incorrect...the Hebrew "ra" is actually calamity, not evil. The New King James Version makes this correction for you.

Isaiah 45:7

New King James Version 7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’

You've asserted that fallacy repeatedly. Changing "evil" to calamity and emphasizing "things" doesn't change the fact calamity represents evil like as in your bible teaches god is good and calms chaos. That's the message in genesis 1 and Ezekiel, and the gospels and revelation, seriously you don't know this and pretend to know god??? 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; I tell you what the Scriptures tell me. The New King James Version and many others correct the old KJV and its translation errors. If God created evil He would violate His divine attributes and no longer be God but your god, Satan (John 8:44) who is the author and origin of evil.

AMP

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing peace and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.

AMPC

I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical] evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things.

CSB

I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

CEB

I form light and create darkness, make prosperity and create doom; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

CJB

I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, Adonai, do all these things.

CEV

I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the Lord, do all this.

DARBY

forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.

ERV

I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things.

EASY

I make light and I also make darkness. I make peace as well as trouble. I am the Lord. I do all these things.

EHV

I am the one who forms light and creates darkness, the one who makes peace and creates disaster. I am the Lord, the one who does all these things.

ESV

I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

ESVUK

I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

EXB

I make the light and create the darkness. I bring ·peace [prosperity; wholeness; C Hebrew shalom], and I ·cause [create] ·troubles [disaster; calamity]. I, the Lord, do all these things.

GW

I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the Lord, do all these things.

GNT

I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the Lord, do all these things.

HCSB

I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, Yahweh, do all these things.

ICB

I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the Lord, do all these things.

ISV

“I form light and create darkness, I make goodness and create disaster. I am the Lord, who does all these things.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

You really don't know scripture. Try harder.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; I do know my Lord and Scripture...you're spiritually dead and the Scripture is foreign to you.

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw, this Religion Forums number one BIBLE FOOL, and runaway of same!


YOUR PERCEIVED NOTION THAT JESUS IS THE ONLY GOD, LOL!: "Jesus is the God of all...Time and Eternity and He is perfect and holy in all His ways and Jesus is your Creator and your Messiah and your Judge."

Barring that Jesus is not the Messiah, that I have taught you too many times but your simple-minded brain cannot decipher this fact, other primitive and mythical religions say that their god is the only one, therefore cancels out your Jesus as god!

THE JEWS SAY THEIR GOD YAHWEH IS THE ONLY ONE "THAT PRECEDED JESUS!": "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" (Isaiah 44:6,8)

ISLAM SAYS ALLAH IS THE ONLY GOD TO WORSHIP: "It is truly I. I am Allah! There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Me. So worship Me ˹alone˺, and establish prayer for My remembrance." (Our'an 20:14)


As seen, each mythical religion shown above in the 21st century proposes their god is the only one and is correct for this world.  You can assume that your brutal serial killer god named Jesus of innocent infants and suckling babies (1 Samuel 15:3) is the only one god until Hell freezes over, but it is not an absolute with other religions saying that their god is the only one!  It's all relative, GET IT BIBLE DUNCE RICKEY?  As usual, Probably not.  










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RickeyHoltsclaw

@21CenturyIconoclast ; Jesus is your Messiah who was ordained and slain before the World began for your benefit...via the Gospel.

 

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

YOUR QUOTE OF TRYING TO CHANGE GOD'S WORD!:  "I tell you what the Scriptures tell me. The New King James Version and many others correct the old KJV and its translation errors. If God created evil He would violate His divine attributes and no longer be God but your god, Satan (John 8:44) who is the author and origin of evil." 


HEADS UPS BIBLE DUNCE RICKEYHOLTSCLAW; the following primitive bibles show "EVIL" at your embarrassment again!

King James Bible preceded the Bibles that you showed in your list! LOL!:

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

American Standard Version

I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

For he formed light and he created darkness, he made peace and he created evil. I AM LORD JEHOVAH, I who have done all these things

Brenton Septuagint Translation

I am he that prepared light, and formed darkness; who make peace, and create evil; I am the Lord God, that does all these things.

Douray-Rheims Bible

I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things. 

Websters Bible Translation 

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Darby Bible Translation

forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.

English Revised Version

I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

Youngs Literal Translation

Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'

Smith’s Literal Translation

“I shall form light and create darkness: making peace and creating evil: I Jehovah doing all these.”

JPS Tanakh 1917 

“I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.”

.

Joeseph

ARGUMENT TOPIC : There is no such thing as  christian morality , so called  christians like Just Lying   cannot name this list of set in stone objective moral dictates supposedly all christians follow , for over a year now Just Lying refuses to demonstrate this objective moral system he and other plastic christians claim to follow.

Christian morality is arbitrary as its based on God's whims , Rickety and Just Lying do not even  know what morality is as both say if god slaughters children that becomes a moral good as god is doing it.

The god of the bile is a cowardly,  bullying, lying  thug who demands blood sacrifices,  rape , abortion , slaughter , slavery ,etc , etc ........as Dawkins correctly claimed  " God is the most evil character in all of fiction"......

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Slavery is perfectly fine according to god.......

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Rape is perfectly acceptable , a raped woman must marry her rapist......

More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace.  If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor.  But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town.  When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town.  But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.  You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?

4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce he

God demands the burning alive of people who refuse to worship him......

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

God commands abortion and infantice is his own name ......

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”.  Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?

Infanticide:

1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless “suckling” infants.  This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.

Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.

Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.

The murdering of children:

Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”

Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.

Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.  Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee?  And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow.  So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”

 

God / Jesus  the compulsive liars .......

1) And Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen.  “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)

2) Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

3) Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

polytheistwitch

I wish one atheist would take the step and do a post where they discuss what they hate about Islam, Judaism,  Hinduism or Paganism. And I know the well Christians are the biggest amount of people I deal with is their reasoning for that. But I'd like to see them break down the religious text of these other faiths and what they despise about them for a change. Just to see if they could do it cuz I think when it comes down to it they're here because they're bitter about the Christians in their life not about religion in general.

just_sayin

@Joeseph

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

The Mosaic covenant had 28  offenses that could have a maximum penalty of death.  The laws are structured similar to other Ancient Near Eastern law codes in the sense that it identifies the maximum penalty, however, a lesser penalty was generally given.  Numbers 35:30-31 mentions that murder was the only offense that could not be given a lesser penalty, such as a ransom, offering, or payment to settle.  

The death penalty was rarely given in Israel.  First, the standards were high to meet - there had to be multiple witnesses, the person had to have a fair trial, and an authorized judge had to make that sentence.  And if it was a sex offense, both parties had to be found guilty and tried.

You mentioned homosexuality as a capital offense.  However, according to all known Israeli records, no one was ever put to death for this offense.  Somebodies argument just shrank to nothing....again.

The last 2 verses you mentioned are not for non-believers but are explicitly only for those who have committed to following the Mosaic covenant.  If someone didn't want to live under the Mosaic covenant, they were free to go to one of the surrounding groups that didn't follow it.  

Wow, once again you whipped out what you thought was massive and an impressive argument, and it shrank down into the quantum realm.  

RickeyHoltsclaw

@21CenturyIconoclast ; Many "bad" translations are based on the 1611 version of the King James Bible which is a poor, sloppy, translation of various manuscripts...the translators rushed the copy into publication in a competition to be named among the first "English" translations...it is a poor translation and those who use it as a foundation for their copies are progenitors of these translation errors.

The Hebrew "ra" in Isaiah 45:7 must be interpreted via context and "ra" is NOT accurate when denoting the creation of Elohim who created "everything very good."

Note the following from "GotQuestions"...

In Isaiah 45:1–7, the prophet foresees God calling and anointing King Cyrus of Persia to be His chosen instrument to subdue nations (namely Babylon) for the sake of His people Israel. Cyrus, who was not yet born at the time of the prophecy, did not know the Lord or even acknowledge His existence, making him an unlikely choice to be God’s anointed. The pick of Cyrus proved all the more that God is sovereign and in control of all things and people. As the only true God and Creator of all life, His authority and decisions cannot truly be challenged:

“There is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:6–7, KJV 1900).

If everything God created was good (Genesis 1:31; 1 Timothy 4:4; James 1:17), why does Isaiah 45:7 say God created evil? The Hebrew word translated as “evil” (ra‘) in the King James Version of Isaiah 45:7 has two applications in the Bible. The term can be used in the sense of moral evil, such as wickedness and sin (Matthew 12:35; Judges 3:12; Proverbs 8:13; 3 John 1:11), or it can refer to harmful natural events, calamity, misfortune, adversity, affliction, or disaster. It is in this second sense that Isaiah speaks, and his meaning is reflected in most modern Bible translations of Isaiah 45:7 (emphasis added): “I make success and create disaster” (HCSB); “I make well-being and create calamity” (ESV); “I send good times and bad times” (NLT).

God does not create moral evil. For one thing, moral evil is not a “thing” to be made but a choice or intent contrary to God’s good purposes, His holy character, and His law. Moral evil does not conform to God and His will. God is good (Psalm 34:8), holy (Leviticus 11:44; Isaiah 6:3; 1 Peter 1:16), and loving (1 John 4:8); therefore, His plans and purposes are good, holy, and loving.

As Ruler of the universe, God sometimes creates calamity to accomplish His will. He brought disaster to discipline His people when they turned their backs on Him and refused to repent (Jeremiah 18:17). And He promised to bring calamity to Babylon through Cyrus for the sake of His chosen people—to restore them to their homeland and rebuild their ruined cities (Isaiah 41:8–10; 44:26; 45:4; 2 Chronicles 36:22–23; Ezra 1:3).

As the Sovereign King over all earthly kings, God can make light or darkness and create peace or calamity. He can use Cyrus as His agent of redemption and peace for Israel and as the bringer of calamity upon Babylon. God moved beyond the boundaries of Israel, selecting a world power that did not even recognize His sovereignty to accomplish His greater kingdom purposes. Cyrus would be the Lord’s divine instrument to help spread the good news of God’s “righteousness” and “salvation” (see Isaiah 45:8) to “all the world from east to west” (Isaiah 45:6, NLT). Cyrus would be the channel, but God was the Architect and Inventor of it all.

God’s sovereign rule over all things good and bad—over success and calamity for His people Israel—is cause for hope in the lives of believers today. We can trust and “know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them” (Romans 8:28, NLT). God’s purpose is to bring us to spiritual maturity (Romans 8:29; Ephesians 1:4; 5:27; Colossians 1:22; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 1:24). Our experiences may seem bright or dark, peaceful or disastrous, but God promises to craft them all together, even adversity, affliction, and “evil,” for our ultimate benefit.

just_sayin

@Joeseph

Slavery is perfectly fine according to god.......

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

The Mosaic covenant tolerated slavery, but did not endorse it. 36 times in the Old Testament, it says for Israel to remember that they were once slaves in Israel and to treat their servants with respect and compassion. Slavery in the Mosaic covenant was very different than chattel slavery.  

1) No one could be kidnapped to be a slave - that was a death penalty crime.  If you had a servant who had been kidnapped, even in a foreign land, you could be executed for holding onto them.  So, servanthood was primarily a contracted thing in Israel (no more than 6 years for a Hebrew slave), with the 2 main exceptions being if someone owed a debt they would pay off their debt with work (Israel did not have a prison system at that time), or if you were a war captive.  Since Israel typically  didn't take men war captives, generally only ladies and children were permitted.  This was seen as more of a kindness since if the woman and children remained behind they would most likely starve.  If they did not want to go, they could not be kidnapped and taken against their will.  

2) Slaves could leave if they felt they were being mistreated.  Israel's law said that if an escaped slave came to your home you were to take them in and not turn them over.  Israel established several sanctuary cities for this, and many foreign slaves fled to Israel for this reason.

3) The word in the Leviticus passage translated 'property' is literally the word for 'silver' or 'money'.  The word 'investment' would be a better translation.  Slaves were not property, not even foreign ones, but had rights.  They were not allowed to be physically abused, got off for the Sabbath and holidays.  They could obtain property, inheritances, and they could even obtain slaves, even Jewish slaves, of their own.  

4) Foreign slaves could work for longer terms than those under the Mosaic covenant.  This is because 1) most of them were either serving a sentence for debt, or war captives, 2) by economic necessity.  Foreigners could not buy property in Israel, because the Mosaic covenant returned the land every so often to the original owners to alleviate permanent debt for those under the covenant.  Without land, it could be hard for a foreigner to survive in Israel if they did not work for someone.  Again, unlike chattel slavery, if they wanted to leave, no Israelite was going to turn them in.  And several of them chose to become permanent servants - that was a voluntary contractual act on their part.  Having regular pay and food and someone else being responsible for your basic necessities was appealing for some.  We have to be careful and not read into the situation then, the notion of chattel slavery, where people were truly property, mistreated, and not able to leave that situation.

All slaves, even foreign ones, were released in Jubilee years.  This wasn't mandated for foreign slaves, but was thought to be the practice.  Due to the many verses that say to treat foreign slaves as you do Jewish slaves.  While technically war slaves could be kept for many generations, in practice that didn't happen, as Egyptian records say that after 2 generations these slaves were thought to have adopted their new culture and became part of society.  So, while not ideal by our standards, the rules in the Bible about slavery provided enormous protections and safeguards for a group of people in need of protections.

I asked my AI to provide a brief description of how war captive slavery worked in Israel:

According to Paul Copan, war captives could not be taken as slaves against their will in ancient Israel, as this would violate the Biblical prohibition on kidnapping[1][3]. The Bible's view on slavery for war captives was more nuanced:

1. Servitude in Israel was generally voluntary and contractual, not forced[1].

2. Israel's laws prohibited kidnapping and returning runaway foreign slaves to their masters[1].

3. War captives who might be pressed into service were limited to hostile foreign POWs, who could be made to do tasks like cutting wood and carrying water[1].

4. The Bible granted rights to war captives, treating them as free agents rather than objects[6]. 

5. Deuteronomy 21:10-14 outlines protections for female captives, indicating they were not to be treated as chattel slaves[6].

Copan argues that if Western colonial powers had observed these Mosaic regulations prohibiting kidnapping and protecting servants, the transatlantic slave trade would not have emerged[1]. He emphasizes that Biblical servitude was fundamentally different from chattel slavery and included significant protections for those in service[4].

Citations:

[1] https://blog.epsociety.org/2010/12/is-god-moral-monster-interview-with.html

[2] https://www.reasonablefaith.org/question-answer/P20/warfare-in-ancient-israel-pt-ii

[3] https://www.reformedclassicalist.com/home/alleged-errors-of-moral-repugnance

[4]

[5]

[6] https://www.equip.org/articles/interpreting-the-law-of-moses-relative-normative-or-something-in-between-a-review-of-the-lost-world-of-the-torah-by-john-h-walton-and-j-harvey-walton/

[7] https://apologeticspress.org/the-bible-and-slavery-1587/

[8]

End AI response.

Sometimes, people ask "why didn't God just outlaw slavery all together?"  He did outlaw Hebrew slavery in Jeremiah 34:8-22.  The people ignored it.  Jesus, in the New Testament helps us to better understand why some laws were put into the Old Testament.  He was asked about why Moses had laws about divorce, if it wasn't something Jesus approved of in general, and Jesus responded that it wasn't God's ideal for divorce to happen, but because of the hardness of their hearts their were laws about it. God knew people were going to divorce even if he had laws against it.  These laws protected women who could have been homeless and destitute without these safeguards.  Again, the Old Testament does not endorse slavery, but tolerates it.  It acknowledges its existence in the culture and surrounding countries, but it undermines what the other cultures practiced regarding slavery.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Joeseph ; @Factfinder ; @Polytheistwitch ; @Jules1 ; @Barnardot ; @MayCaesar    God does not command slavery - rape - infanticide...your spiritual father does (John 8:44)...God allows the evil of your father (John 8:44) to prevail in Time as Satan's evil must be displayed to the faithful angelic creation and the redeemed in Jesus for eschatological purposes; namely, the Father is displaying to His faithful angelic creation why Satan was extricated from the Kingdom and why obedience to God's authority is always superior to rebellion and defilement; this, for longevity of existence with peace and joy and goodness and holiness that pleases the soul and makes existence meaningful and wholesome. The previous 6000-years of horror that have transpired at the hands and will of Satan working through Time and physics and the atheist-secular humanist will act as an eternal bulwark against future rebellion in the Kingdom where free will exists by necessity. Our entire creation in Time hinges upon a war initiated by your rebellious father, Satan, and Elohim's methodical restoration of holiness to His Kingdom and the demonstration of why evil must be shunned and obedience to God's authority obeyed in order that life in Time and in Eternity be enjoyed with intimacy and love and peace.

You, and every other atheist in this forum and around this fallen World, are shining examples of why obedience to the authority of our Creator is essential...you are examples of why sin, defilement, perversion, infanticide, aberrant sexual debauchery, destroys mind, body, soul, and why these things are unsustainable in life constrained by Time and unsustainable in the Kingdom as you and your perverse ilk are destructive and deadly to mind, body, soul...you are the destroyers of goodness, holiness, peace, meaningfulness, HOPE. You are ugly in thought, word, deed...you are the disgusting, vile, that brings sorrow and shame upon any people. You are the progenitors of all you suggest God authors in evil...and in that Day, the righteous of God will glory in your destruction and your shame along with your Father (Revelation 20:10-15). MARANATHA LORD!

 

just_sayin

@Joeseph

4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce he

It appears that your translation is misleading.  Here's what my AI said:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is not about forcible rape, but rather describes a case of consensual premarital sex or seduction. Several key points support this interpretation:

1. Different Hebrew words are used to describe the act in this passage compared to clear cases of rape. The word "taphas" (seize or grasp) is used here, while "chazaq" (force) is used for rape in nearby verses[2][3].

2. The phrase "and they are discovered" implies mutual responsibility, unlike in cases of rape where only the rapist is held accountable[2][3].

3. This passage should be read alongside Exodus 22:16-17, which describes a similar situation of a man seducing an unbetrothed virgin[2][3].

4. The context and structure of Deuteronomy 22 show that verses 25-27 already addressed rape, with execution as the punishment. Verses 28-29 describe a different scenario with a different penalty[3].

5. The law appears to be designed to protect the woman's future prospects in a society where virginity was highly valued, by requiring the man to marry her and provide for her[4].

This passage is more akin to what we might consider statutory rape or seduction of a minor in modern terms, where the act may be consensual but still considered legally and morally wrong due to the girl's age or unmarried status[4]. The law aims to hold the man accountable for his actions and protect the woman's interests in the cultural context of ancient Israel.

Citations:

[1] https://thebiblesays.com/en/commentary/deu+22:28

[2] https://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm

[3] https://www.gotquestions.org/Deuteronomy-22-28-29-marry-rapist.html

[4] https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/yhmsr2/please_explain_deuteronomy_222829/

[6] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/deuteronomy/22-28.htm

[7] https://www.reformedclassicalist.com/home/alleged-errors-of-moral-repugnance

[8] https://www.reasonablefaith.org/question-answer/P20/warfare-in-ancient-israel-pt-ii

It seems somebody whipped out what he thought was a big ole argument and then it turned into a teeny weenie ... argument in his hand.  just sayin

polytheistwitch

If you're pulling things out of the Old Testament as a way to live your life you're a Jew and not a Christian. What's with the freaking d!@k joke?

Factfinder

@just_sayin

You mentioned homosexuality as a capital offense.  However, according to all known Israeli records, no one was ever put to death for this offense.

That's a lie and I proved you wrong. Your excuse was "the Israelis in Babylon captivity keeping records of executing homosexuals don't count because they were in Babylon and the Babylonians allowed Jews to practice their own laws from Israel". Remember that silly response of yours?  Now is when you lie again and deny this and ask me to prove it. I will not until you prove your assertion that horus, er which ever elf god you kneel before, exists. And you have to prove another assertion you deceitfully try to lead people to believe, that a people willing to kill for adultery and blasphemy aren't willing to kill those that god called an abomination and to be put to death. Go... 



 Leviticus 20:13

King James Version

13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

just_sayin

polytheistwitch said:

If you're pulling things out of the Old Testament as a way to live your life you're a Jew and not a Christian. What's with the freaking d!@k joke?

@Joeseph 's argument is about passages in the Old Testament that's why it is referenced.  

The d!@k jokes are a running theme in comments I make to Little @Dee ( having a genuine medical condition, technically it would be referred to as a micropenis).  Little @Dee was banned for his extreme abusive behavior - and rightfully so.  So don't feel sorry for the little guy.  @Joeseph gives off Little @Dee energy (that's cause he is Little @Dee - but don't tell him we know, it takes all the fun out it if he realizes we know who he is).  So, every now an then I weave in a phallic reference because he is so sensitive about it.  Thanks for asking.

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

@just_sayin

You mentioned homosexuality as a capital offense.  However, according to all known Israeli records, no one was ever put to death for this offense.

That's a lie and I proved you wrong. Your excuse was "the Israelis in Babylon captivity keeping records of executing homosexuals don't count because they were in Babylon and the Babylonians allowed Jews to practice their own laws from Israel". Remember that silly response of yours?  Now is when you lie again and deny this and ask me to prove it. I will not until you prove your assertion that horus, er which ever elf god you kneel before, exists. And you have to prove another assertion you deceitfully try to lead people to believe, that a people willing to kill for adultery and blasphemy aren't willing to kill those that god called an abomination and to be put to death. Go... 



 Leviticus 20:13

King James Version13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I refuted your claim already, and you ignored my response.  I'll let my AI respond to you this time:

The Mosaic Law did not allow Babylonian officials to serve as judges or pass death sentences on Jews. The judicial system under Mosaic Law was structured differently from the Babylonian system and was specifically designed for the Israelites.

Under Mosaic Law, judges were appointed from within the Israelite community. Deuteronomy 16:18 states that judges and officers were to be appointed in all the gates (towns) that God gave to the tribes of Israel[1]. These judges were expected to judge the people with righteous judgment.

The highest court in ancient Israel, as described in Deuteronomy 17:8-13, was located in Jerusalem and consisted of priests, Levites, and Israelite judges[1]. This court dealt with cases that were too difficult for local courts to handle.

In contrast, the Babylonian legal system, as seen in the Code of Hammurabi, had a different structure. It included officials such as satraps, prefects, governors, counselors, treasurers, justices, and magistrates[3]. However, these Babylonian officials had no authority over the Jewish legal system under Mosaic Law.

It's important to note that during periods of exile or foreign rule, such as the Babylonian captivity, the practical application of Mosaic Law may have been limited. However, the Law itself did not provide for Babylonian officials to serve as judges over the Israelites or to pass death sentences on Jews.

Citations:

[1] https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&context=mi&filename=4&type=additional

[2] https://www.gotquestions.org/Moses-Hammurabi-code.html

[3] https://www.bibleref.com/Daniel/3/Daniel-3-2.html

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_law

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Moses

[6] https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10582c.htm

[7] https://lonang.com/commentaries/foundation/mosaic-covenant-expressly-eternal-has-not-ended/

[8] https://academic.oup.com/nar/article/46/21/11144/5123388?login=false

Next

just_sayin

@Factfinder
And you have to prove another assertion you deceitfully try to lead people to believe, that a people willing to kill for adultery and blasphemy aren't willing to kill those that god called an abomination and to be put to death. Go... 

Sure buddy.  Again, lets ask my AI this question  "Are there any known examples where someone was executed for homosexual acts under mosaic law?":

There are no known historical examples of someone being executed specifically for homosexual acts under Mosaic law. While the Torah prescribes the death penalty for various offenses, including homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13), several factors made such executions extremely rare in practice:

1. High evidentiary standards: Convictions required testimony from at least two witnesses, which would be difficult to obtain for private sexual acts[3].

2. Reluctance to impose death penalty: The Talmud states that a religious court executing someone once in 70 years was considered destructive, indicating a strong aversion to capital punishment[4].

3. Preference for alternative punishments: In many cases, other forms of punishment like monetary compensation were likely used instead of execution[3].

4. Procedural safeguards: Trials required due process, and convictions were not based solely on the law but also on witness testimony and judicial discretion[3].

5. Theoretical nature: Much of the Talmudic discussion on execution methods appears to be theoretical rather than practical[4].

It's important to note that while the Torah prescribes death for certain acts, the application of these laws was complex and nuanced. The rabbis of the Talmud erected significant legal barriers to make executions exceedingly rare[4]. In practice, the death penalty was seldom, if ever, carried out for homosexual acts under the Mosaic legal system as it was historically implemented.

Citations:

[1] https://www.gotquestions.org/homosexuality-death-penalty.html

[2] https://www.elizabethton.com/2022/02/17/homosexuality-and-the-law-of-moses/

[3] https://theopolisinstitute.com/the-death-penalty-in-the-mosaic-law/

[4] https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-death-penalty-in-jewish-tradition/

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Judaism

[6] https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/execution-of-homosexuals.html

[7] http://www.gaymarriageandthebible.com/the-death-penalty-in-leviticus-20

[8] https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-bible-on-homosexual-behavior

Factfinder

 just_sayin said:@Factfinder
And you have to prove another assertion you deceitfully try to lead people to believe, that a people willing to kill for adultery and blasphemy aren't willing to kill those that god called an abomination and to be put to death. Go... 

Sure buddy.  Again, lets ask my AI this question  "Are there any known examples where someone was executed for homosexual acts under mosaic law?":

There are no known historical examples of someone being executed specifically for homosexual acts under Mosaic law. While the Torah prescribes the death penalty for various offenses, including homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13), several factors made such executions extremely rare in practice:
1. High evidentiary standards: Convictions required testimony from at least two witnesses, which would be difficult to obtain for private sexual acts[3].
2. Reluctance to impose death penalty: The Talmud states that a religious court executing someone once in 70 years was considered destructive, indicating a strong aversion to capital punishment[4].
3. Preference for alternative punishments: In many cases, other forms of punishment like monetary compensation were likely used instead of execution[3].
4. Procedural safeguards: Trials required due process, and convictions were not based solely on the law but also on witness testimony and judicial discretion[3].
5. Theoretical nature: Much of the Talmudic discussion on execution methods appears to be theoretical rather than practical[4].
It's important to note that while the Torah prescribes death for certain acts, the application of these laws was complex and nuanced. The rabbis of the Talmud erected significant legal barriers to make executions exceedingly rare[4]. In practice, the death penalty was seldom, if ever, carried out for homosexual acts under the Mosaic legal system as it was historically implemented.
Citations:[1] https://www.gotquestions.org/homosexuality-death-penalty.html[2] https://www.elizabethton.com/2022/02/17/homosexuality-and-the-law-of-moses/[3] https://theopolisinstitute.com/the-death-penalty-in-the-mosaic-law/[4] https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-death-penalty-in-jewish-tradition/[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Judaism[6] https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/execution-of-homosexuals.html[7] http://www.gaymarriageandthebible.com/the-death-penalty-in-leviticus-20[8] https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-bible-on-homosexual-behavior

 So where is this proof you spoke of? You're saying for thousands of years no one died under gods COMMAND to kill homosexuals? Mealy mouth assumption, oh, "no record of them obeying god" is for cowards. Are you telling everyone here you believe no one obeyed your gods command in Leviticus? Yes or no? Add nothing to it as your god says that's evil. You should read a bible some day. I mean if you want to preach nonsense.

Matthew 5:37: 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Leviticus 20:13

King James Version

13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Joeseph

@just_sayin

ARGUMENT TOPIC THE QUESTION JUST LYING KEEPS IGNORING AND CANNOT ANSWER  : There is no such thing as  christian morality , so called  christians like Just Lying   cannot name this list of set in stone objective moral dictates supposedly all christians follow , for over a year now Just Lying refuses to demonstrate this objective moral system he and other plastic christians claim to follow.

ZING

The death penalty was rarely given in Israel

You lived in the times of Jesus , interesting , or did he personally tell you all this?

It wouldn't matter as your god prescribed it for trivialities


. First, the standards were high to meet - there had to be multiple witnesses, the person had to have a fair trial, and an authorized judge had to make that sentence. And if it was a sex offense, both parties had to be found guilty and tried.

Making nonsense up is so you read above , your god demanded murder for trivialising.

You mentioned homosexuality as a capital offense. However, according to all known Israeli records, no one was ever put to death for this offense.

But your god recommends it you troll.

Wow, once again you whipped out what you thought was massive and an impressive argument, and it shrank down into the quantum realm.  


Wow! Just Lying the Penticostal virgin is still obsessing about male size ....some day your Prince will come ......


ZING

Joeseph

@just_sayin

Just Lying types a novel attempting to justify slavery by using the bible to deny what the Bible says here is the  verse you're deliberately ignoring its quiet clear even to a troll like you .....I've highlighted in bold the parts you pretend don't exist , I love beating you using your own arguments and bils against you.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Joeseph ; Slavery has existed since the Adamic generations...Elohim simply used the institution for good. You are a slave to Satan and will perish in Hell similar to his fate subsequent Judgment, not sure why slavery feeds your lust to hate God?

Joeseph

@just_sayin

  @Joeseph gives off Little @Dee energy

That would be a lot more energy than your old man the dirty ole perv is giving off...bwahahahahahawahahaha 

(that's cause he is Little @Dee - but don't tell him we know, it takes all the fun out it if he realizes we know who he is).

I'm in your head 24 /7 and all because I keep schooling you using your own bible to do so 


 So, every post  I weave in a phallic reference because because i'm a Penticostal virgin and i wonder why I so  sensitive about it.


Don't stress it son your future lovers will break you in gently .....I think .....bwahahahahahawahahaha 

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Slavery has existed since the Adamic generations...Elohim simply used the institution for good. 

Yeah, I'm sure the slaves of the south thought god was using the institution of slavery for "good" and thought how nice of their Christian slave owners to practice it as well. ROLMAO I can never be a theists cause I don't have that much stupidity! LOL

just_sayin

@Factfinder
So where is this proof you spoke of? You're saying for thousands of years no one died under gods COMMAND to kill homosexuals? Mealy mouth assumption, oh, "no record of them obeying god" is for cowards. Are you telling everyone here you believe no one obeyed your gods command in Leviticus? Yes or no? Add nothing to it as your god says that's evil. You should read a bible some day. I mean if you want to preach nonsense.

There are no known examples of people being executed for homosexual acts based on the Mosaic covenant in Israel.  Again, the standards to execute someone were higher than many think: 1) you had to have multiple witnesses, 2) both people had to be charged if it was a mutual sex offense, 3) The person charged had to be found guilty, and 4) The judge had to give that punishment.  

And yet again, I must repeat myself, the Mosaic law mentions the maximum allowed penalty for an offense, just as every other law code of the day did, however, in all cases except murder, a lesser punishment could be given.  You see this also in the Hammurabi Code.  It says that if a man builds a home for someone and it collapses and kills someone in that home like a child, the builder's child can then be killed.  Now are there any examples of anyone ever dying for that?  Nope.  In fact, if your family could be executed for your mistakes, then no one would do anything.  There wouldn't be doctors if they knew that if someone died, then their child could be killed.  The point of the codes is not to have a lot of executions, but instead to emphasize that certain behaviors should be avoided.

The Bible is not misleading, it mentions ransoms and offerings throughout the Mosaic law as alternative punishments.  You are attempting to try and force an Ancient Near Eastern set of laws and say they need to read like 21 century western laws.  That's not a fault of the text, that's your lack of understanding of how they work.

The things the Bible says are capital offenses are indeed sins.  The Bible stresses that these behaviors are against God's will and were considered harmful to the community.  The Mosaic law draws attention to how destructive that God thought they were.  However, to claim that many people were executed for committing these offenses, just doesn't match what really happened.  

Joeseph

@Factfinder


Yeah, I'm sure the slaves of the south thought god was using the institution of slavery for "good" and thought how nice of their Christian slave owners to practice it as well. ROLMAO I can never be a theists cause I don't have that much stupidity! LOL


I spit my first beer of the day out laughing at that ......" institution" .... wonder if Rickety and the boy virgin Just Lying would be someone's slave 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; @Joeseph ; Biblical slavery is not the slavery experienced by the Irish and Africans in America. As much as you mindless, pathetically liberal sissies cry about slavery in America, I find it odd that quality of life for the average African improved here and many did not leave their "masters" once emancipated....most of the slavery involving Israel's children was actually "indentured servitude" involving unpaid debts and war refugees who had nothing of substance and would have died in their helpless condition. You vile, ignorant, liberal, atheists are simply clueless as you grasp for anything that obfuscates your mindless rejection of our Creator and your path to death in Hell...a very stu-pid people indeed. You are loathsome.

Factfinder

@just_sayin

And yet again, I must repeat myself,

No, you choose to repeat yourself, you are not compelled to. You do so cause you're backed into a corner. And that's because no one buys your crap. All the special pleading isn't helping you here. Just answer "yes" or "no" and say nothing else, do you see the question okay?...

"Are you telling everyone here you believe no one obeyed your gods command in Leviticus?" Yes or no? Add nothing to it as your god says that's evil. You should read a bible some day. I mean if you want to preach nonsense.

Matthew 5:37: 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Leviticus 20:13

King James Version

13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Under the Law Covenant, there could be no attacks on the family unit...which was absolutely essential for Israel's role in Elohim's eschatological mandates concerning Messiah, the Gospel, the Great Commission. Homosexuality, disrespecting mother or father, was a most egregious attack upon the family and the holiness of Elohim who created them male and female and joined them together in marriage for His purposes. The family was protected with prejudice as was the holiness and cohesiveness of the Tribes.

Homosexuality remains a most vile sin in the New Covenant as well but those in the New Covenant are NOT under the Law Covenant given specifically to Israel's children and homosexuality in the New Covenant is NOT a death penalty offense; in fact, homosexuals who repented and trusted in Jesus were saved through faith.

Joeseph

just_sayin


 Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce he

It appears that your translation is misleading.


It appears you're an imbecile ,  the translation is the same in all versions of the Bible,  a woman must marry her rapist , the tragedy is id-ots like you think this is perfectly fine.

 Here's what my AI said:

I couldn't give a f-ck what yourAI  says you coward.


My old man used to  whip out what he thought was a big ole todger  for me to suck and then it turned into a teeny weenie much to my delight , I love small  in my gob


Looks like you and the ole perv had a " special " relationship going,......pity God couldn't save him the ole sinner ........bwahahahahahawahahaha 

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Just one question ricky. with this verse in mind...Matthew 5:37: 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.... Do you believe as Just_lyin does, yes or no....
Do you think no one followed the command of your god in Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.     

Over the centuries and just ignored that command?  Yes or no?

polytheistwitch

@Factfinder I've never understood why that particular community has held on to Christianity considering it was the religion of their enslavers. 

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Slavery has existed since the Adamic generations...Elohim simply used the institution for good. 

Yeah, I'm sure the slaves of the south thought god was using the institution of slavery for "good" and thought how nice of their Christian slave owners to practice it as well. ROLMAO I can never be a theists cause I don't have that much stupidity! LOL

Antebellum slavery was very different than the slavery/servanthood discussed in the Bible.  That's the point Rickey is making.  Chattel slavery was race based - the servitude of the Bible is not.  Chattel slavery means the person has no rights.  The individual retains their rights in the servanthood in the Bible.  You could leave and go to a Jewish home and they weren't to return you in the Bible.  Or you could go to a sanctuary city.  But in Antebellum south the slaves could not.  In Hebrew slavery, the person could not be kidnapped, but they had to enter into an agreement or contract.  In antebellum slavery, the slaves were generally kidnapped and had no rights.  

Why did you misrepresent what Rickey was trying to tell you?

Factfinder

@just_sayin

Why did you misrepresent what Rickey was trying to tell you?

I didn't, you are now. Why are you trying to add to and take away from your bible? Why do you feel the need to soften the the word "slave" with special pleading in order to make people think your god saw it not for what it was when obviously it did, and was indifferent, more concerned with the worship of itself? 

1 Peter 2:18, Saint Peter writes "Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse."

just_sayin

@Joeseph
Regarding your debunked rape post, the passage you reference is not about forcible rape.  The Bible already laid out the punishment for rape.  

The word translated rape in that passage isn't 'rape' instead it is to grab or hold.   The phrase "and they are discovered" implies mutual responsibility, unlike in cases of rape where only the rapist is held accountable.  And the payment is to the father, who loses the dowery, not to the priests, as would be the case for rape.  This is consensual sex outside of marriage.  

Your big argument, just isn't a firm argument.  You hoped no one would examine the verse to find out your deception.  But you have a flaccid argument.  

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; @Joeseph ; Biblical slavery is not the slavery experienced by the Irish and Africans in America. As much as you mindless, pathetically liberal sissies cry about slavery in America, I find it odd that quality of life for the average African improved here and many did not leave their "masters" once emancipated....most of the slavery involving Israel's children was actually "indentured servitude" involving unpaid debts and war refugees who had nothing of substance and would have died in their helpless condition. You vile, ignorant, liberal, atheists are simply clueless as you grasp for anything that obfuscates your mindless rejection of our Creator and your path to death in Hell...a very stu-pid people indeed. You are loathsome.

Yeah, it couldn't be all the glaring flaws based in erroneous narratives and mindless delusional doctrines of Christianity, oh no. It has to be that we search diligently for small unclear points of reference and magnify them LOL. Yea that's it. ROLMAO

Joeseph

@just_sayin

The word translated rape in that passage isn't 'rape' instead it is to grab or hold

BWAHAHAHAHAHAWAHAHAHA  ....... UTTER NONSENSE 


. The phrase "and they are discovered" implies mutual responsibility, 


Officer to judge " I discovered the man raping a girl"  Judge" ahh a case of mutual responsibility " .......you truly are an imbecile


BWAHAHAHAHAHAWAHAHAHA so not one word of the,bible means what it says until Just Lying  interprets it bwahahahahaha 



nlike in cases of rape where only the rapist is held accountable. And the payment is to the father, who loses the dowery, not to the priests, as would be the case for rape. This is consensual sex outside of marriage.  


Rape is now not rape but consensual sex ......good boy , run down your local rape crisis centre and run that by them .......good luck .......

My   tiny argu,ment isn't a firm argument. I  hoped no one would examine the verse to prove my deception. But I have a flaccid .......any advice ?


Ahh  you're missing your ole man's loving touch ....pray on it 

Joeseph

@just_sayin

ARGUMENT TOPIC THE QUESTION JUST LYING KEEPS IGNORING AND CANNOT ANSWER : There is no such thing as christian morality , so called christians like Just Lying cannot name this list of set in stone objective moral dictates supposedly all christians follow , for over a year now Just Lying refuses to demonstrate this objective moral system he and other plastic christians claim to follow.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Joeseph ; @Factfinder ; @Polytheistwitch ; Christian morality is defined by the "fruits of the Spirit"... (Galatians 5:16-23).

Atheistic morality is defined by their father (John 8:44).

Joeseph

@RickeyHoltsclaw

 ; Christian morality is defined by the "fruits of the Spirit"


The " fruits of the spirit" being you admitting that you beat your kids , you child abusing bully and worse you had your cowardly buddy Just Lying  applauding you for your child abuse.

just_sayin

Joeseph said:

@just_sayin

ARGUMENT TOPIC THE QUESTION JUST LYING KEEPS IGNORING AND CANNOT ANSWER : There is no such thing as christian morality , so called christians like Just Lying cannot name this list of set in stone objective moral dictates supposedly all christians follow , for over a year now Just Lying refuses to demonstrate this objective moral system he and other plastic christians claim to follow.

I answered your question twice already.  You asked before what are the moral absolute values that are taught in the Bible.  You initiatally asked in the context of what moral values are found across all cultures.  I provided you an answer twice before.  I'll let my AI answer it for you this 3rd time:

A comprehensive exploration of common moral beliefs across diverse cultures reveals a set of universal values that promote cooperation, social cohesion, and individual responsibility. These beliefs not only surface in anthropological research but also find reflections in biblical texts, underscoring shared human values that transcend cultural boundaries.

    Common Moral Beliefs

Research conducted by the University of Oxford has identified seven universal moral rules that were observed across 60 different cultures. These are:

    Help your family**: Prioritizing the welfare of one's family is viewed positively in all societies.

  

Help your group**: Demonstrating loyalty and support to one's social group fosters community ties.

    Return favors**: Reciprocity is a foundational principle that encourages mutual aid and strengthens relationships.

    Be brave**: Courage is valued as it often contributes to group survival and integrity.

    Defer to superiors**: Respecting authority figures is crucial for social order and stability.

    Divide resources fairly**: Fair distribution of resources is essential for communal harmony and equity.

    Respect others' property**: Property rights are acknowledged across cultures to maintain peace and reduce conflict.

    Representation in the Bible

These common moral beliefs are paralleled in various teachings found within the Bible, providing ethical guidance consistent with the principles identified in cross-cultural studies.

    Family and Community

The importance of family is emphasized in the Bible. For instance, the commandment to "honor your father and mother" (Exodus 20:12) aligns with the value of helping one's family. 

    Exodus 20:12**: "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you."

    Similarly, throughout the New Testament, the sense of community is reinforced, especially in teachings about caring for one another.

    Galatians 6:2**: "Carry each other's burdens, and in this way, you will fulfill the law of Christ."

    Reciprocity and Fairness

The moral principle of returning favors is expressed in the biblical phrase, “Do to others as you would have them do to you” (Luke 6:31).

    Luke 6:31**: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

    Regarding fairness, the Bible speaks extensively about equitable treatment and justice, notably in the laws given to the Israelites.

    Leviticus 19:15**: "Do not pervert justice; do not show favoritism to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly."

    Respect for Authority

Deference to authority is encapsulated in various biblical texts that instruct followers to respect governance and leadership.

    Romans 13:1**: "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established."

    This verse emphasizes the divine origin of governmental structures and the moral obligation to adhere to them.

    Courage and Bravery

The value of bravery is seen in numerous stories in the Bible, particularly in the narratives of figures like David and Esther, who exemplify courage in the face of adversity.

    Joshua 1:9**: "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go."

    Respect for Property

Biblical injunctions against stealing and coveting reinforce the respect for property as a moral standard.

    Exodus 20:15**: "You shall not steal."

    This commandment illustrates the importance placed on the rights of ownership, which is crucial for societal harmony.

    Conclusion

The moral ideals identified in various cultures resonate strongly with biblical teachings, illustrating a profound interconnectedness in human ethical thought. The Bible serves not only as a religious text but also as a repository of moral wisdom that reflects universal human values aimed at fostering community, justice, and respect for individuals and their rights. These common beliefs serve as foundational principles guiding human behavior in a plethora of cultural contexts.

Sources: 

[1] Seven moral rules found all around the world | University of Oxford, https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2019-02-11-seven-moral-rules-found-all-around-world

[2] Culture, morality and individual differences - Journals, https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2017.0170

[3] Cross-cultural Moral Judgement in a Globalised World, https://www.e-ir.info/2012/05/25/cross-cultural-morals-in-globalisation/

[4] Why different cultures have different moral systems. | by Theo Seeds, https://medium.com/@theo.seeds/why-morality-differs-across-cultures-f397565fe83d

[5] Moral universalism - Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_universalism

[6] Universal Morality – Culture and Psychology, https://open.maricopa.edu/culturepsychology/chapter/culture-and-morality/

[7] Seven moral rules found all around the world - Phys.org, https://phys.org/news/2019-02-moral-world.html

[8] [PDF] A Search for Universal Moral Values, https://scholarship.depauw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=library_symposium

[9] Talking About Ethics Across Cultures - Harvard Business Review, https://hbr.org/2016/12/talking-about-ethics-across-cultures

[10] Ethical Relativism - Markkula Center for Applied Ethics, https://www.scu.edu/ethics/ethics-resources/ethical-decision-making/ethical-relativism/

[11] Research Discovered All Cultures Share the Same Moral Values, https://www.the3rdgear.com.au/research-discovered-all-cultures-share-the-same-moral-values/

[12] What are the most compelling examples of practices or beliefs ..., https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-most-compelling-examples-of-practices-or-beliefs-considered-moral-in-one-culture-but-immoral-in-others-either-in-modern-times-or-the-past

[13] human cultures have ethical values, but values vary across ... - Quora, https://www.quora.com/All-human-cultures-have-ethical-values-but-values-vary-across-cultures-How-can-we-decide-which-set-of-virtues-is-right

[14] Moral Values: Examples to follow in the Bible - Steemit, https://steemit.com/steemchurch/@xiore/moral-values-examples-to-follow-in-the-bible

[15] Ethics in the Bible - Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_the_Bible

[16] Christian Values List - Compassion International, https://www.compassion.com/about/christian-values-list.htm

[17] Ethics and Morality - Christian Bible Reference Site, https://www.christianbiblereference.org/jethics.htm

[18] Romans 2: The Universal Moral Law - Reflections Ministries, https://kenboa.org/biblical/romans-2-the-universal-moral-law/

[19] 3 Parts of the Law: A Case for Continuity of the Moral Law, https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/continuity-moral-law/

[20] Moral Law and the Ten Commandments, https://tifwe.org/resource/moral-law-and-the-ten-commandments/

[21] The Bible and Morality: Biblical Roots of Christian Conduct, https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/pcb_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20080511_bibbia-e-morale_en.html

[22] What is the difference between the ceremonial law, the moral law ..., https://www.gotquestions.org/ceremonial-law.html

[23] What are the morals and values taught in the Bible? - Quora, https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-morals-and-values-taught-in-the-Bible

21CenturyIconoclast

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