Can "Religion" save me from death in Hell?

marke

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Millions of sinners will find themselves in hell in the end for mistaking involvement with religion and Christianity as some sort of guarantee of forgiveness for their sins.

Factfinder

Of course it's all nutty crap that the Hebrew scribes fashioned after the Anunnaki...

https://www.facebook.com/reel/2985654931583903

marke

@Factfinder
Religion does not save sinners from hell and death, only Jesus does that.

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Well Rickey

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Religion and death are Earthly adventures.

And depending upon your chosen means of subsequent waste disposal.

That's it.

Heaven and Hell are just fantasy locations in a fantasy story.

Phite

marke said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Millions of sinners will find themselves in hell in the end for mistaking involvement with religion and Christianity as some sort of guarantee of forgiveness for their sins.

Interesting.  You worship an alleged being whose currency of choice when it comes to dealing with its anger at its own faulty creation is pain, blood, and agony.  The fact that you worship this alleged being tells me that, in the interest of not burning alive for eternity, you're willing to refer to this being as holy, just, and loving.  In other words, you've agreed to love this being only because of what it will do to you if you don't!  

And you call that "love."  The hypnotized are always the last to know where they're coming from.

Factfinder

@marke

Religion does not save sinners from hell and death, only Jesus does that.

The elf book is fantasy, not evidence. Provide evidence of this hell, that I need saving from it, that 'sinner' is a word that has intrinsic value, and that a god exist and it happens to be the one that gave up a weekend in the bible as a sacrificial hoax pretending to be dead. I agree, religion saves no one and has no answers.

marke

@Fredsnephew
Your opinion is not backed by science.

marke

@Phite
Your disrespectful view of the Creator God is also not supported by science.

Phite

marke said:

@Phite
Your disrespectful view of the Creator God is also not supported by science.

Okay, tell me how science supports the existence of a being of love and light which will, nevertheless, subject its creation to the eternal agony of burning alive for rejecting its love or failing to return it.

Anyway, you think what I wrote was disrespectful?  That's odd.  All I did was point out that the god you worship uses pain, blood, and the promise of eternal agony as the means by which to satisfy its need for revenge on the beings it created.  Your depiction of a loving, holy being is wholly disrespectful to the point of blasphemy.  But as I've already stated, the hypnotized are always the last to recognize their condition.  

the

I would suggest to you that your "love" for a being that promises to subject you to eternal agony for rejecting its love or failing to return it can be explained by the Stockholm syndrome.  There's nothing else to explain your "love" for a being whose means to self satisfaction involves the eternal torture of the beings it created--the ones who rejected its love or failed to return it.  And the eternal torture is not for the purpose of teaching anyone a lesson; no one is ever getting out of the god's torture chamber to apply their newly learned lesson to their life.  So, the infliction of eternal torture is simply pain for the sake of pain.  Stockholm syndrome is when a victim of abuse or captivity develops positive feelings toward their abuser or captor. It's a coping mechanism that can occur in a variety of situations, including hostage situations, domestic violence, human trafficking, and cult-like situations.  And you, believing yourself to be at the mercy of a Hell-wielding, super ego cosmic bully, has opted to embrace the bully and condemn those who criticize such a relationship.

You'll know you're caught in fear's grip when you've come to see eternal torture as a just penalty for making the god angry.

Factfinder

@marke

Your opinion is not backed by science.

Your disrespectful view of the Creator God is also not supported by science.

What do you care? "God" isn't backed up by science yet you assert it arrogantly with no evidence and diss evolutionary biology that has enough evidence to be considered scientific fact. 

marke

@Phite

You have fallen prey to the devil's disrespectful slanderous perversion of scripture interpretations.

marke

@Factfinder
If atheists want to focus on the fact that Christians' views about God are not backed by science let me remind them that their erronious opinions about God are also not supported by science.

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hmmmmmmmmmm

marke said:

@Fredsnephew
Your opinion is not backed by science.

@marke

I'm not sure that any religion based opinion comes weighted with a lot of scientific endeavour.


The Philosophy back in the day went sort of like this:

What d'ya reckon?

Magic bloke that lives in the sky.

Sounds good to me, what shall we call him?

Godfrey.

Sorted.

MayCaesar

Religion. Saving people from what happens if they do not follow it and upset the theocrats! These guys are the true saviors - from the bullets of their machine guns:

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hail Caesar.

@MayCaesar

True.

Theocrats and their slaves.

Religion, Guns and War is big business.

And all you need do, is promise them an infinity of virgins.

Phite

marke said:

@Phite

You have fallen prey to the devil's disrespectful slanderous perversion of scripture interpretations.

I've misinterpreted nothing.  You yourself have warned others here of the danger of burning alive in Hell forever at the hands of the god should they reject it.  That was you who did that, right?  Right.  And it is you who claims a profound love for this god despite its penchant for pointless, eternal torture, right?  Right.  Or did I get that wrong?

marke

@Fredsnephew
Likewise, secularists have invested much time and energy in efforts to scientifically prove some or something else besides God created the universe, but science still gives no reason to believe that their efforts will ever be rewarded.

marke

@MayCaesar

Man-made bullets will never deliver an unrepentent sinner from the judgment of God.

marke

@Fredsnephew

I believe most Christians pray for peace while leaders of the lying and looting democrat party has started most wars fought by US troops in the last 100 years.

marke

@Phite

God has promised He will condemn all sinners who stubbornly refuse to repent of their sins after he causes those sinners to perfectly understand that is exactly what He will do.

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hey marke.

marke said:

@Fredsnephew

I believe most Christians pray for peace while leaders of the lying and looting democrat party has started most wars fought by US troops in the last 100 years.

@marke

I would need that statistic verified.

marke

@Fredsnephew
Google is an excellent place to begin your research.  If you do find facts that prove me wrong, please post them if you don't mind.  I do not want to remain wrong if I am wrong.

Factfinder

@marke

If atheists want to focus on the fact that Christians' views about God are not backed by science let me remind them that their erronious opinions about God are also not supported by science.

You think that pseudo logic holds water oh foolish one? Still, you produce no elf god, you meagerly assert one. The lack of scientific evidence at all for your god is de facto scientific support there is no god, silly little boy ricky.

Phite

marke said:

@Phite

God has promised He will condemn all sinners who stubbornly refuse to repent of their sins after he causes those sinners to perfectly understand that is exactly what He will do.

You are ignoring my point concerning the god's nature.  It creates what it doesn't like, then puts the blame on the created.  And just when you think it couldn't get any  worse, the god gets so mad at itself that it threatens its own creation with the promise of eternal torture for no other purpose than to suffer agony--it's called revenge.  The god is in denial of  the unsavory parts of itself that were made manifest in its creation, and then blamed it on the created. Then it did the only thing open to it.  It threatened you with unending torture if you don't accept the blame for what it created, and then act as if you love it anyway.  You're not being honest with yourself when you love a vengeful torturer.

marke

@Factfinder

Again, rejecting God as Creator on the basis of human scientific observation is little different than accepting alternate theories of the origins of the universe and of life on earth by faith and not by sight.

marke

@Phite
You totally misunderstand God and butcher the Bible in wierd attempts at interpretation.

Phite

Why does the god opt to torture someone for eternity.  You think it might be . . . revenge??

Phite

marke said:

@Phite
You totally misunderstand God and butcher the Bible in wierd attempts at interpretation.

No, not at all.  You have stated that the god will torture people forever.  Correct?

marke

@Phite

The Bible states that the devil will be tortured day and night forever, and I see no problem with that even though I wish the devil had not been so foolish and rebellious by defying God and committing so many abominable evils.

Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Phite

The god could easily destroy the Devil, but chooses to torture it for eternity.  That's sadistic.  But you are no longer able to see it.

Anyway, forget the Devil for now.  The issue is with the god's choice to torture what it doesn't like for eternity, which includes those who reject its love or fail to return it.  You characterize the god as one who has a bad reaction to being jilted.  It sounds to be insecure . . .

Factfinder

@marke

The Bible states that the devil will be tortured day and night forever, and I see no problem with that even though I wish the devil had not been so foolish and rebellious by defying God and committing so many abominable evils.

Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That wasn't Phite's question. He asked does your sadistic god have PEOPLE thrown in hell according to what you believe and have said? You tried to pull a deception cause you don't trust your own elf god fairytale book. You doubted the morality, you were "afraid" to stand on god's word and promise according to your elf book;... "unbelief" and that means by your own god's "love" you're headed for hell, the exact same place as the mythical Satan "devil"...

Revelation 21:8:  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

marke

@Phite

You put yourself in a gangerous position by falsely accusing God of erring in His choice of punishment for evildoers.

marke

@Factfinder

Revelation 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You are right, God did say the wicked will be cast into the lake of fire but the question was not about simply being cast into the lake of fire but of being tormented day and night forever, which is why I posted the verse that mentions endless torment.  I believe both verses and disagree with those who don't.

Phite

@marke

Yes or no question: Will the god subject those who shun its love, or fail to return it, to the agony of eternal torture by fire?  If your answer is yes, why do you worship a being whose idea of love is to burn you alive forever for not loving it.  Your fear of this character prevents you from recognizing it for what it is--a giant souped-up version of the male ego.  And you, in a desperate, fear-driven attempt to please this cruel cosmic bully, now believe that eternal torture is a just and reasonable reward for those of us who can't pretend to love a cruel cosmic bully who solves its problems by torturing them . . . forever! 

marke

@Phite
Your question itself contains erroneous assumptions.  God is not willing that any human die and got to hell but he cannot stop rebels from rejecting His provision for forgiveness and going there on their own accord.

Phite

@marke

Erroneous?  Your position presupposes that a being of love will subject the people who refuse its love to eternal torture by burning alive.  Kind of erroneous, huh?

You're merely acting as an apologist when you claim that the god actually doesn't want to do such a horrible thing to lesser beings than itself.  

So, to sum up, you believe the god has no choice but to torture because . . . it makes the rules.  Kind of erroneous, huh?

But anyway, your answer to the question of whether or not the god will subject those who shun its love, or fail to return it, to the agony of eternal torture by fire, is yes.

Sounds like you're acquiescing to a terrorist/bully, even to the extent that you would willingly declare your love for such a thing.  If you weren't fearful of the god you believe in, your common sense would tell you that such a thing is an abomination bent on its own sadistic satisfaction.  But you are so fearful.

Factfinder

@marke

Your question itself contains erroneous assumptions.  God is not willing that any human die and got to hell but he cannot stop rebels from rejecting His provision for forgiveness and going there on their own accord.

Of course the adults in the room know it's all fairytale nonsense but just to play along...if that were true your elf god never would of choreographed the narrative it did to save us from itself and throwing us into a hell it would have never created. If what you said had any truth marke.

marke

@Phite

Leftist hatred for God's method of justice will never make leftists' views wiser than God's.

marke

@Factfinder

Your failure to comprehend the beauty of God's plan for humanity does you no credit.

Factfinder

@marke

Your failure to comprehend the beauty of God's plan for humanity does you no credit.

Yet you're the one not addressing what I said cause you can't refute the logic of the truth of my words. 

Joeseph

@marke

Your failure to comprehend the beauty of God's plan for humanity does you no credit.

You mean like letting babies be born with cancer and other dreadful diseases? 

Phite

marke said:

@Phite

Leftist hatred for God's method of justice will never make leftists' views wiser than God's.

You don't have to be anything but decent to understand that there is nothing wise or loving about torturing lesser beings than yourself for eternity for failing to love you.

But just for the record, please explain the love and wisdom behind the god's torture solution.

marke

@Joeseph

Sin and sickness is the result of Adam's sin which was anticipated by God as an evil that He knew would be the consequence of giving humans a free will.  God can hardly intervene to destroy all sin and sickness on earth without also destroying any hope of humans ever going to heaven.

marke

@Phite

Sinners are not tortured for being sinners but for hatefully rejecting Jesus' provision for saving them from their sins.

Joeseph

@marke

Sin and sickness is the result of Adam's sin 

Right , so babies must be born with cancer to atone for Adams sin ? You're sick in the head mate.

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw, @Factfinder, @Joeseph


RickeyHoltsclaw has returned to once again be this Religion Forums number one BIBLE FOOL!

RICKEYHOLTSCLAW'S QUOTE WHERE HE ADMITS THAT THE BIBLE CONTRADICTS ITSELF, PRAISE RICKEY!!!: "Man is not saved from sin and Hell by works or deeds or behavior but man is saved and enters into covenant relationship with Elohim by faith in the ONE, Jesus Christ  "Man is not saved from sin and Hell by works or deeds or behavior but man is saved and enters into covenant relationship with Elohim by faith in the ONE, Jesus Christ."   "https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/10414/can-religion-save-me-from-death-in-hell

Lets do the simple math that poor Rickey will NEVER comprehend, therefore, when Rickey in his quote above states; "Man is not saved from sin and Hell by works or deeds ..... and enters into convenant with Elohim by faith ...." he is letting the Atheist know forthwith that the Bible contradicts itself, AND where Rickey is calling Jesus a LIE*R as well, as blatantly shown by the Jesus passage below where Jesus says you have to have deeds to be saved and not by faith alone!!! 

JESUS SAID:  “You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE." (James 2:14-24)

Now, what Rickey's challenging mental state to biblical facts won't let him comprehend, is the fact that Rickey in showing that the Bible contradicts itself as shown above, then the Bible is full of contradicting views known as falsehoods, and where there are falsehoods, THERE ARE LIES, because both contradicting falsehoods  cannot be true at the same time! 2+2=4!

THEREFORE THE BIBLE DUNCE "RICKEY" AND HIS JUDEO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE AND CHRISTIANITY IS TOTALLY BASED UPON LIES!!!

CASE CLOSED AGAIN FOR POOR "RICKEYHOLTSCLAW," HOW SAD TO BE HIM. 

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, Until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day." (Joshua 10:13 KJV)

.

marke

@Joeseph
If such a scenario were true then you would be right - that scenario would be twisted and wrong.

marke

@21CenturyIconoclast

Faith without works is just as dead as works without faith.

Joeseph

@marke

If such a scenario were true then you would be right - that scenario would be twisted and wrong.

But you just admitted sickness is the result of Adams sin you imbecile,  everytime you open your mouth you say something ridiculous then attempt to pretend you didn't say it..

marke

@Joeseph

Claiming babies must die to atone for Adam's sin is almost so as to be beyond the realm of logic and debate.