Should the law be the same in NY City, as it is in Podunk, Arkansas?

marke

@jack ; The only way to accomplish that is to nationalize the cops..  No?

I'm not sure why all police forces should be nationalized.  The US government is famous for its incompetence and waste.  Why add to the problem?  Do democrats want US police departments put under the supervision of Trump's appointed Justice Department officials?

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Conex

@jack

As I see it.

The Law

And

The Police

Are two separate but connected institutions.


Nonetheless to an outsider, United States National integrity always seems a tad fickle.

jack

marke said:

Do democrats want US police departments put under the supervision of Trump's appointed Justice Department officials?

Hello m:

Nahhh..  The Constitution provides adequate supervision..

excon

marke

@jack
  Nahhh..  The Constitution provides adequate supervision..

President Trump has proven to be a better leader than Biden and Justice Department officials will no doubt be much better at executing good judgment and right justice under Trump than the officials who failed in so many ways under Biden.

polytheistwitch

The problem is in any community that police are as involved in politics as politicians are. Sheriffs are elected, chief of police are elected, judges are elected. Once you start bringing elections into people getting a job they start having to pay back favors, do things for people and do what they can to keep their position. Please also rely on those politicians to fund them so they often do what they're asked to do whether they want to or not. I've worked in criminal justice and I can tell you that there are officers that go into police work because they want to help people but a majority of them want a little bit of power in their community and it's an easy way to get respect and power. The average person tows the line when it comes to the police. Take that power and corruption and throw Federal element into it and little local communities would be basically terrorized.

Barnardot

@jack Well sure, we had a shite load of crime in NY but the Z Tol by the police cleaned that up years ago and all the immigrants from the south learned that they either shape up or ship out because we are talking about a highly civilized and law-abiding city here.

We know that those deep southern states are so backward and feral and it's no wonder since everyone there is related if you know what I mean. So, in the end you have to have different laws because you're dealing with a vastly different mentality. You can't put them on chain gangs like they did years ago but maybe they could set up hard labor camps where they make stone slabs or bend steel. 
If there is one thing that hits a raw nerve with those people down there it is work and hard work will be the best deterrent for those lazy meth doers.

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hey Barney

@Barnardot

Do you ever go down South much?

jack

Fredsnephew said:

@Barnardot

Do you ever go down South much?

Hello nephew:

I do.  I'm well traveled, and I LOVE the South.  The laws I'm talking about are like, stand your ground, a women's right to control her own body, drug laws, and the death penalty..  Those laws, and laws like them should be the same coast to coast.

excon

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Conex.

@jack

Agreed.



I cycled coast to coast across the Southern States..

Had a great time.

MayCaesar

Even the Ancient Greeks understood the importance of decentralization. People living in different regions have very different needs, and the laws should reflect that.

Consider the center of Manhattan. Now consider a rural town in Wyoming with 100 people and miles of undeveloped wilderness in all directions, 2 hours of driving away from the closest populated area. It does not take much thinking to see that applying the same resident housing laws to these areas would result in a complete collapse of one of the two. Or the same policing laws. Or the same taxation rules. Or the same gun laws.

Article 14 assures equality of people before the law. It does not assure equality of law between different regions. If you go to Greybull, Wyoming, you will be a subject to the same laws as anyone else who is currently in Greybull, Wyoming - and if you go to Manhattan, New York, you will be a subject to the same laws as anyone else who is currently on Manhattan, New York. The law will treat you equally under the equal circumstances. That is all the Constitution proclaims.

The New York City police department currently has approximately 34,000 officers - that is roughly 4 officers per 1,000 people. In Greybull, Wyoming that would translate to 1 police officer (after rounding). I do not envy that officer's job!

jack

MayCaesar said:

Even the Ancient Greeks understood the importance of decentralization. People living in different regions have very different needs, and the laws should reflect that.

Hello May:

You're not picking up what I'm laying down..  Not surprising..   Lemme see if I can be more specific.

Pursuant to the Constitution, in order for a cop to detain someone, he needs to have "reasonable, articuable, suspicion, that a crime has happened, is happening, or is going to happen".  Better known as RAS.   RAS is NOT a hunch, or a guess..  It's an observable act, whereby a citizens civil rights are balanced with the need to enforce the law.  It's an easy standard.  It protects everybody.  And, most importantly, it's Constitutional.  Need I tell you just how important that is in a free society?

Yet, in some places, cops don't know that.  They think all they need is suspicion alone to detain somebody..  I dunno why.  It doesn't require a major overhaul of the police department to learn RAS.  It takes 5 minutes.  But, it doesn't happen, and I don't know why.

Do you?

excon

MayCaesar

@jack

What constitutes reasonable, articulable, suspicion itself depends on the area of enforcement. Two little Asian kids running around a rural village will not raise any eyebrows, while two little Asian kids running around a rough neighborhood in Detroit would warrant immediate investigation by the police. A man yelling at a woman on a farm is just everyday farming business; a man yelling at a woman at the center of Manhattan, on the other hand, at the very least disturbs the peace and, possibly, publicly harasses the woman.

The context of the situation is as important as the general situation or action in question. If you think that a police officer can serve in Podunk, Arkansas for 20 years, then move to the LA and act exactly the same way as he did back in Podunk, and be as good a policeman - then you are sorely mistaken. There is a great movie about it, the Training Day. In Podunk the officer's biggest task will probably be subduing a drunk; in the LA the officer might be shot at by a gang.

Barnardot

@Fredsnephew ;Do you ever go down South much?

Not a lot. Why would I want to get caught in the crossfire of those shotgun tottin, inbred, backward hicks?

....I'm sure by now that you would know when I am deliberately winding someone up and I just love to wind up Ex Con.

In reality the Southern states are beautiful, great people and customs, music, food....it's the best.

jack

MayCaesar said:

@jack

What constitutes reasonable, articulable, suspicion itself depends on the area of enforcement.

Hello May:

Nahhh..   You forgot some words - IMPORTANT words.  I'm not gonna read them to you again, because you'll ignore them again..  Did you do that willfully, or didja just NOT see 'em??

excon