Free Puerto Rico

just_sayin

Jules1 said:

The U.S has participated in a system of colonialism in Puerto Rico and an attempt to wipe a culture and turn it into another Hawai'i, which has left the Puerto Rican people in a miserable economic state, relying on multi-billion dollar companies which quash local businesses. The debt accrued by worthless politicians stealing money from schools and ruining any prospects of a good local economy, causing intense austerity measures that continue the cycle. Puerto Rico must become independent to not only regain control of its own economic fate, but to preserve the beautiful culture that the island has. 
Simply put, Puerto Rico must be liberated.

OMG!!!  You are so mistaken.  Sure there would be some opportunities, but withdrawing US territory status would result in removal of federal programs and jobs -  including healthcare, education, infrastructure, and disaster relief. Independence would mean that these territories would have to find new sources of revenue to fund these essential services.  The loss of federal jobs would be well paying jobs.  That means that the Puerto Rican people would have to pay much more in taxes, but have fewer taxpayer to pay for their goods and services.

A lost of US affiliation would impact tourism negatively.   This would send the island into a depression.  Tourism is 6-7% of their GDP.  Any reduction in that will have ripple effects through every industry.  

MayCaesar

Hawaii is one of the richest states in the US. I suspect most Puerto Ricans would LOVE to become another Hawaii.

As for "liberation" of Puerto Rico... Well, according to the recent referendum (November 2024), only ~12% of the voters supported independence. As a fraction of the total population, it is ~4%. Do you want to force the outcome 96% of the population has not supported? What kind of liberation is that?

Jules1

@MayCaesar
Hawai'i is not rich for the people who have lived there, the rich are the ones who move in for beaches and lower taxes, as well, the culture of the native people of Hawai'i has been mostly wiped out. Also, there has not been a referendum, I believe you are speaking about the plebiscite, in which 30.8% of votes were for independence, still a minority, but much larger than you stated. I believe in a referendum to finally decide what happens, I would personally prefer independence, but whatever happens would be much better than the status quo.

Jules1

@just_sayin
I will preface this by saying that economics is not my strong suit, however, I do know of Ley 936, which gave most Puerto Ricans good jobs, and while not as good as the mainland US Puerto Rico went through and economic golden age. In 1996 the government decided to cancel it, and gave a 10 year transaction period before it took full effect. The loss of 40% of companies on the island coupled with the 2008 Financial Crisis caused a deadly blow to the Puerto Rican economy, and created a huge debt. Maybe Puerto Rico could've slightly recovered, but after defaulting the US government installed La Junta Control Fiscal, which is an unelected group of officials who in practice have more power than actual lawmakers, and this group has historically prioritized debt repayment instead of meaningful economic recovery. They do this because they are assigned by the president of the USA, and thus they act in best interest of the US, which doesn't include Puerto Rican well-being.

MayCaesar

@Jules1

In terms of the median income adjust to the costs of living, Hawaii is the richest state in the US: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-median-income-by-state-in-2024/, trailing only behind the DC which is not a state. What fraction of Puerto Ricans, do you think, would dislike changing their state of the economy to that of Hawaii? For reference, the median household income in Hawaii is 4 times that in Puerto Rico, while the cost of living in Honolulu is just 40% higher than in San Juan. If Puerto Rico was the 51st US state, it would be the poorest state by any reasonable economical metric. I fail to see what the culture of the native people of Hawaii having been wiped out has to do with the prospect for a Puerto Rican to get its quality of life.

And yes, there was a referendum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Puerto_Rican_status_referendum Sorry, but Puerto Ricans really-really want to join the union, and your abstract anti-colonial preferences do not change that. Their preferences are reflected in the fact that 5 million Puerto Ricans live in the US, which is roughly 2/3 of the whole Puerto Rican population.

Jules1 said:

They do this because they are assigned by the president of the USA, and thus they act in best interest of the US, which doesn't include Puerto Rican well-being.

This also happens to be false. The GDP per capita of Puerto Rico has grown by 200% since 1996, versus 170% for the US. It appears that the partnership is mutually beneficial, Puerto Rican economy extracting more value from it than the American economy.

marke

@Jules1

I am in favor of allowing Puerto Rico to become independent and responsible for its own sovereignty, like the independent nation of Haiti.

Jules1

@MayCaesar
So, I guess it's a thing in Spanish, because I've only seen it referred to as a plebiscite, sorry for the communication error.
You can spout numbers all you want, but it isn't materializing in the hands of the people, out of 3 million people on the island 42.7% live under the poverty line.
I have said multiple times that I would respect the results of any binding referendum, but I would prefer independence. Anything other than the status quo would be better.
Culture is very important, it makes up all of us, but in an attempt to squeeze more money out of tourists, the Puerto Rican culture is becoming tokenized and replaced with a more American-friendly version of Puerto Rico. 

MayCaesar

@Jules1

The median household income in San Juan is growing annually at the incredible rate of 7.5% (as of 2022) - in comparison, Austin, considered the most rapidly developing major city in the US, is at 9.5%, and New York City is at 8.4%. Seems like Puerto Ricans are getting a very good deal.

You are making a basic mistake of comparing absolute values rather than relative ones. You have to ask yourself where Puerto Rico was in 1996 (which is the year you chose for comparison) and what percentage of the population lived under the poverty line then. I cannot find anything reliable, but here is a presentation from 2007 https://grupocne.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/FLMM.pdf according to which in 1990 the poverty rate in Puerto Rico was over 57%.

I fail to see what your preference has to do with anything. Do you live in Puerto Rico? If the people living there overwhelmingly reject independence, then let them self-determine.

Regarding the culture, go to Puerto-Rico and ask them what they prefer to see around them: this

or this

There is nothing intrinsically preferable about the original culture. Original culture may suck - and it did.