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There are only 2 genders
in Science

There are only two genders it is simple biology All animals on ear only have 2 genders so why would humans have more and why would people just start thinking that now and not hundreds of years ago.
ErfisflatSnakesOfferingApplesSilverishGoldNovawalterbaMax_Air29
  1. Are there only 2 genders?

    39 votes
    1. Yes
      58.97%
    2. No
      38.46%
    3. Not Sure
        2.56%
«1



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Arguments

  • There are only two genders, there always have been two genders and there always will be.  The status quo does not simply bend and adjust because you feel like it should. 

    The term "Gender" only ever came to be because of the humor found in using the term "Sex".  The word  "Gender" is derrivative of the Latin word "Genus" which is meant to be a classification.  Essentially it's slang for the noun "Sex" as in What is the sex of the child?

    It's intellectually dishonest to agree that there are only two sexes but multiple genders.  That would be like saying you can always be trusted to keep secrets but you spill the beans all the time....it makes no sense.  
    Max_Air29EdrilGeorge_HorseEvidence
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • edited September 2017
     Bobthebuilder said:
    There are only two genders it is simple biology All animals on ear only have 2 genders so why would humans have more and why would people just start thinking that now and not hundreds of years ago.
    Because we live in an age in which people want to feel oppressed because they pretend to be something that doesn't exist. Did I ever tell you there were people being find tens of thousands of dollars or even arrested because they didn't use their selected made up words? I guess we can call that, In newspeak MadWord (Use the made up word) 
    ErfisflatVaulk
  • What gender are hermaphrodites?

    JoePineapplesTrash_GoddessMissDMeanorSkepticalOneaveryaprocdog1950
  • there are 2 sexes, but there are many genders
  • There are two genders. It is men and women.
    George_Horse
  • NopeNope 342 Pts
    Bobthebuilder You say all animals have to genders. That is not how we normally use genders. That is the sex of an animal. It is hard to find an exact definition for gender in which we all agree on. Gender normally means how you identify. Is it not possible to identify with neither sex? Ignore spelling errors. HEY! I said ignore them.
    averyaproVaulk
  • People are born with both sexual organs. People are born with two YY, they are born with XXY etc. People are born with brains that are female and bodies that are male and vice versa.

    SkepticalOne
  • There is a difference between sex and gender. Sex has to do with which reproductive organs you were born with and gender is how you associate your biological characteristics with your identity or personality. 
    BaconToesSkepticalOne
  • Having a psychiatric disorder (like gender dysphoria) is not the same as being a member of a 3rd or 4th gender.

    There are only 2 genders with some ambiguous mutations between the 2.

    MajoMILSdlGMGV
  • someone234someone234 615 Pts
    edited December 2017
    F*** what people call you, be yourself but know that until you are financially independent, you're somewhat enslaved to your guardians be they parents or generous friends.

    Once you live on your own cash, life honestly becomes much much better. At least I believe so and have yet to see different.

    Money does buy happiness but if you are worried about making even more money then you aren't spending enough. 

    I don't care how poor you grew up or how insulting this is to you. I don't care what any bully on this forum says or what limits on your income you have at your current job. Work towards the dream of relying only on yourself as much as possible and then you can be the transgender who identifies as a pelican and noone who would bully you is gonna affect you all that much as you can pay for security guards and stuff.

    Let working towards the level of freedom be a reward in itself. Don't let the world break you... Because trust me if you let it, it will.
    Edril
  • @Edril I totally agree, there are only 2 genders. You either identify as woman or as man according to your sexual organs. 
  • I have nothing against transgender people. Modify your body and act however you want if you're not hurting anyone.
    But the medical condition of gender dysphoria requires counseling. People commit suicide because of this and surgical reassignment statistically does not help this.

    This is the only mental disorder where the treatment is making your delusions a reality. We need to stop telling people that they actually are whatever they self identify as.

    Imagine if we treated paranoid schizophrenia by sending people out to get you.

  • @Edril even if this is a mental disorder (or worse illness) you can't use the case of one mental disorder to assess the treatment methods of an entirely different one where the only link is some level of delusion.
  • @someone234

    I understand that. I was just making an analogy to show the absurdity.

  • @Edril Why do you need to treat what doesn't harm others around them? It's a victimless disorder until there's homophobia or transphobia
  • @someone234 I disagree, as long as it doesn't harm the person itself there is no reason to treat. But if this disorder makes the person suffer then we should treat it to at least lessen the suffering. 
  • @MajoMILSdlGMGV how exactly do we disagree?
  • EdrilEdril 67 Pts
    edited December 2017
    @someone234
    I already agreed with you that theres nothing wrong with transgenderism.
    I said gender dysphoria needs treatment.
    I dont treat a headache because it hurts others, i treat it because it hurts me.
  • @Edril Why do you need to treat what doesn't harm others around them? It's a victimless disorder until there's homophobia or transphobia
    @someone234 you ask why you need to treat something that doesn't harm others. I believe that no matter if it harms or doesn't harm others, as long as the person who has the disorder is suffering there should be treatment. If the person who has a disorder is not suffering then there is no need to treat it. In this case being transgender may no harm others but the person that is transgender is probably suffering and having conflict with what he is feeling and thinking and what society mandates he should feel and think, so the person needs to be treated in order to help him reduce his psychological and emotional suffering. 


  • @MajoMILSdlGMGV Wrong, the bullies need to be treated for their abusive ways are unacceptable.
  • @Edril it hurts them because of bullies. Fight the bullies and society slowly gets fixed.
  • @someone234
    Gender dysphoria is the feeling of discomfort caused by the conflict between your actual gender and the gender you identify with. This has nothing to do with external bullying, though I agree that bullying contributes to depression and needs to also be treated. That being said, "fight the bullies" is a futile practice. Teaching them to cope with bullying makes much more sense.

    The difference between your gender and your identity is not caused by society. Otherwise, the patient would also be included in the society that believes there are gender norms and are equally to blame for the discomfort. Hence, once again,  the need for treatment.
    If someone truly believes that gender is non-binary, they would experience no dysphoria since they don't acknowledge a connection between their identity and their genetics. 
  • There are definitely more than two genders. How do you think transgender people feel about this? This debate should have just been called are you a homophobe because clearly transgender is "multiple genders" if you think about it. For example, a boy that is transgender is essentially more than one gender. They have boy parts/hormones but they feel like a girl inside. Saying that there is only one gender is like saying that only girls and boys should be able to be romantic with each other. NO!!!!! Girls can love girls and boys can love boys it's just the world. Sorry if you feel differently but that's just how it works. 
    Edrilcdog1950
  • @Edril nothing to say except you're wrong. In liberal cities/region's there's very little stress caused by being a funky LGBT alignment. In most of the world where these people are not just mocke but stabbed for how they dress and live, the stress is far more of an issue.
  • EdrilEdril 67 Pts
    edited December 2017
    @averyapro Please define a 3rd gender.

    @someone234
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
    Here is a study done in Sweden (reletively gay-friendly) showing that gender reassignment increases psychological problems up to and including suicide.
    But this is irrelevant. The topic of this thread is about how many genders there are. Please provide an example of a 3rd gender.
  • @averyapro
    You are confusing sex with gender. Sex is basically if you are man or woman according to your sexual organs, while gender is how your likes, behavior, identity, is consistent with your biological characteristics. 

    According to the oxford dictionary gender is:

    Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female. 

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gender

    averyapro said:
    There are definitely more than two genders. How do you think transgender people feel about this? This debate should have just been called are you a homophobe because clearly transgender is "multiple genders" if you think about it. For example, a boy that is transgender is essentially more than one gender. They have boy parts/hormones but they feel like a girl inside. Saying that there is only one gender is like saying that only girls and boys should be able to be romantic with each other. NO!!!!! Girls can love girls and boys can love boys it's just the world. Sorry if you feel differently but that's just how it works. 
    Transgender is definitely not, as you said "multiple genders". Transgender is when you don't identify with your biological characteristics. For example, when a biological woman psychologically identifies as a man. It does not in any way mean multiple genders. 
    averyaproPogue
  • If you feel like a very feminine person born male or masculine person born female, you'd begin to see that the lines a lot blurrier than you think and that the 2-gender mentality is very detrimental to society because then very masculine men and very feminine women are not considered outliers of their gender (which they are) but actually considered pinnacles of what their gender should be (which they are not).
  • I think that what is detrimental is stereotyping genders. We have to accept that a woman can wear mens clothes, can be masculine, be into sports, etc. that men can be feminine, like fashion and be sensible, that is what we should be trying to change. It's important to teach and learn that women as well as men are diverse and that there should not be a mold we are expected to fit into according to our gender or sex. That doesn't mean that the fact that there are 2 genders changes. 
    someone234
  • Sex and gender are not the same thing. Sex is a matter of hardware (genitalia) and gender is software based (mind). This being said, neither sex or gender are binary. 

    Intersex conditions (hormones, chromosomes, genitalia, sexual characteristics, etc., which are not exclusively male or female) illustrate sex is a spectrum with male and female at either extreme. Given that gender is partially determined by sex it cannot be binary either.
    someone234Pogue
  • @MajoMILSdlGMGV @SkepticalOne

    Both of you (and me) agree that the Software (gender) part is a lot less binary than we make it out to be. I grew up a very emotional boy and was teased for it. It was very hurtful and I didn't enjoy having to hate my life because I sucked at sports but trust me I was brutally teased for it every PE/gym class. Always the last or second last picked for team sports depending how they felt about the fat kid or the even  more feminine guy... Always the one who would be pointed at and laughed if someone did bad at the sport "AT least I'm not someone234 (inserted in place of my real name)"
    SkepticalOneMajoMILSdlGMGV
  • Both sex (hardware) and gender (software) are a spectrum between 2 identifications. It's non-binary in the sense that there are grey areas between, but it is binary the sense that there are still only 2 poles.

    Intersexual hardware mutations and transgender identities do not produce a 3rd gender. Intersexual people have some level of biological ambiguity as to which of the 2 sexes they fit into, and transgender people stray from the cultural norms generally applied to the sex assigned by genetics, but still within the 2 genders.

    Its like light and dark. This is a binary system on a sliding scale between the 2 poles. There is no third state of light and dark.


    No one has been able to point to a 3rd gender.

  • @Edril So Is there something between North and South? (I do not mean west or east I mean distance between)

    Something between 'hot' and 'cold'? 

    Something between Solid and gas (and before you say 'liquid isn't in genders' there is a state of being called gender-fluid where someone is truly in between and doesn't identify with either and yet identifies with both all at once).
  • @Edril

    I guess that there are only sexes which is definitely true but homosexuals are the third gender. Transgender should be counted as a gender because it's how people define themselves as.
  • @MajoMILSdlGMGV

    However, the question is about gender, not sex. I definitely think that there are only two sexes because you are born with either boy or girl parts and you develop as a girl or boy would.  However, gender is a whole different spectrum and there is more than 2. 
  • @averyapro

    Homosexuality is not a gender, it's sexual preference. Transgender has been well defined in this thread, I'm not going to define it again. It is not a 3rd gender.

    @someone234

    Even in defence of non-binary gender, you can't escape the binary terminology. You keep saying "either" and "both", "one" or "the other".

    existence of ambiguity between 2 poles does not constitute a 3rd pole.

  • @Edril Instead of a third pole it constitutes infinite variants.

    You are turning a proven analogue measurement into a digital one. If you want to stay as a transphobic Theist who can't think outside the box then stay that way but your stubbornness hurts you more than the ones you bully in the long run as the anger and discomfort the intolerance causes to your hormones cause high blood pressure which steadily reduces life-span.
  • EdrilEdril 67 Pts
    edited December 2017

    "transphobic Theist....bully"

    You're not very good at reading comprehension if you think I'm any one of these things.

    @someone234

  • someone234someone234 615 Pts
    edited December 2017
    @Edril Please highlight to me where you've shown to be anything but. :)
  • From my second post in this thread:

    "I have nothing against transgender people. Modify your body and act however you want if you're not hurting anyone."

    =transphobic?


    Theist? Aren't you and I arguing in another debate where my stated position is that a hypothetical God is evil? What makes you think I'm a theist?

    Again from my post earlier in this thread:

    "...though I agree that bullying contributes to depression and needs to also be treated."

    =Bully?



  • @Edril You are cherry-picking your string of transphobic religious mantra about how we are adam or eve not Dana or Steve.
  • @someone234
    Don't get your hopes up that I'm going to defend a strawman.
  • AlairesAlaires 38 Pts
    edited December 2017
    Boo. I tried to write an argument but it won't send. :( 

    So, the question pertains to “gender,” and for this I’d like to first explain a concept that will shed some light on what I’m talking about, so bear with the slight, seemingly off-topic point. 

    Social facts. Durkheim elaborated this to be: “a category of facts which present very special characteristics: they consist of manners of acting, thinking, and feeling external to the individual, which are invested with a coercive power by virtue of which they exercise control over him." [1] That is to say, social facts are behaviours you learn from your culture, and this can reflect in your thinking, in how you behave, and how you come to feel towards certain events, etiquette, values, so on and so forth down that same vein. Fear of crime (in the social manifestations) have been deemed according to sociological textbooks to be a social fact. The same applies to sickness (not the symptoms.)  In relation to sickness, this is seen as where we go when we are sick. In some tribal places, they may visit the witch doctor or sacred places to ward off spirits that are making them ill. In first world countries, we’d take a trip to the doctor if it’s severe and take medicine, including a good rest. These social facts are found, also, through the scientific method, thus coining it as a social fact.

    Sociologists enjoy coming across social facts, and these social facts are found in a lot of different variations in different fields. Some time ago, the perceptions of women and men became included. When we think of a man in a first world country, we often visualise a built or lean man with short hair. Perhaps we envision him to be a soldier or a sports player, a construction worker perhaps. A man that is capable of working on cars. While these are traditional perceptions, it is still somewhat common, and at one point in time it most definitely was a norm. In analysing common behaviours, roles, and visualisations, and such and such, sociologists used the term “gender” to coin the social reflection. It is not contingent on sex, even though biology does contribute to many of the qualities that come to create genders.

    Sociologists study these variations, and this does not just apply to first world countries or massive ones at that, but also tribal places or smaller communities. For the sake of maintaining this to be a somewhat short post, I’ll use the “muxe” of Mexico. In short, this is considered to be a third gender, emphasised by the fact that they don’t coin themselves to be a woman or a man, but a “muxe.” Their language has isolated third pronouns, making it a new gender identity. They have their own roles, visualisations, and behaviours. For all intents and purposes, it fits within the sociological definition of “gender.” [2][3]

    -----------

    [1] http://durkheim.uchicago.edu/Summaries/rules.html


    [2] https://ethnicstudies.ucr.edu/people/faculty/mirande/Hombres_Mujeres.pdf


    [3] https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?cc=mfsfront;c=mfs;c=mfsfront;idno=ark5583.0021.101;rgn=main;view=text;xc=1;g=mfsg

    MajoMILSdlGMGVPogueEvidence
  • @ Alaires, that was a very interesting argument. So that means that there can be more than two genders, but depending on the social norms of your country or region.  
  • The categories were not made for man by some higher power. It's pretty simple - gender is the social and societal expectation that we place upon individuals of each sex. Saying there are only two genders is like saying there is only one language. It's a nonsense statement.
    PogueErfisflat

    Under a system of perfectly free commerce, each country naturally devotes its capital and labour to such employments as are most beneficial to each. This pursuit of individual advantage is admirably connected with the universal good of the whole. By stimulating industry, by regarding ingenuity, and by using most efficaciously the peculiar powers bestowed by nature, it distributes labour most effectively and most economically.


    - David Ricardo

  • AlairesAlaires 38 Pts
    edited December 2017
    Sent multiple times. Rip.
  • AlairesAlaires 38 Pts
    edited December 2017

    reposted

  • It depends on how you count people with sex chromosomes other than XX and XY. Sex = gender
  • Medic said:
    The categories were not made for man by some higher power. It's pretty simple - gender is the social and societal expectation that we place upon individuals of each sex. Saying there are only two genders is like saying there is only one language. It's a nonsense statement.


    Well isn't the Big Bang a higher power? Can you name anything on earth (or other planets) as small as that quantum speck was  that suddenly inflated with a Big-Bang creating everything that we see?

    I believe what you mean is that "genders were not made by Bible God", .. but the almighty WeMan who knows better.

    BB-Evolutionists: "We know the universe, the earth and all the life/animals on it happened, period. It happened with no plan or will on anyone or anything, gradually over billions of years! Only fools and science haters would suggest I.D. by a higher power, .. but we are working hard on intelligently designing an intellectual movement that aims to transform the human condition by developing and making widely available sophisticated technologies to greatly enhance human intellect and physiology, including intelligently planning and designing superior body parts through bionics. Where evolution failed (like in gender identification), WeMan will correct it with I.D."

    ... what hypocrisy!? But that's Religion for you.
  • Me, and everyone else i could have sex with?  I guess you're right, that's two. ................................................................................................
  • cdog1950cdog1950 27 Pts
    Biology is not so simple, maybe you should actually study it. To begin with, there is the possibility to have XXX, XXY and XYY in humans. Then there are all kinds of variations in the animal kingdom  (too many to go into here - and more in the plant kingdom). Furthermore, there are numerous species where environment or temperature determines the sex of the organism. Then, of course you have those born with both organs. Further, maleness (in humans) is largely determined by one gene on the Y chromosome. Since downstream expression of any gene can vary in intensity, a person seen as a male certainly may feel female, and vice versa.  To me, this whole debate appears to center around homophobia. Homosexuality is not confined to humans, nor is it some recent phenomena.  The "sickness" is not in their heads, it is in yours.
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