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Was Hitler innocent?
in History

By George_HorseGeorge_Horse 267 Pts edited September 2017
A lot of holocaust deniers like to say Hitler did nothing wrong and he was only protecting Germany and the European continent. Despite evidence of the holocaust occurring, why do they deny that it happened? 
                           

 



billpassed
  1. Was Hitler innocent?

    24 votes
    1. Yes!
        8.33%
    2. Absolutely not!
      91.67%
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." ~Gene Roddenberry

"A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill



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  • Hitler was not innocent. He was responsible for the killing of about 6,000,000 Jews. There is factual eveidence that is still around which proves Hitler is not innocent and the Nazis are not either. Concentration camps such as Aushwitz are still standing today or a portion of them. Armies who liberated the Jews from camps saw what the Nazis have done.
    agsrGeorge_HorsePogueEmeryPearsonPolaris95
  • @billpassed Thanks for your input! I was watching some WW2 documentary 9 months ago and I was harassed, called a "Jew-slave" and a "good goyim" for my statements. Bunch of crazy people and your post makes me feel much more happier!
    agsr
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." ~Gene Roddenberry

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill
  • Hitler is widely accepted as a terrible (if not the worst) human being in existence. Those who won't believe that are either ignorant of evidence, have huge hearts, or really like Hitler.
    George_HorseUnchartedSteppesPolaris95
  • @PowerPikachu21 Maybe even cognitive dissonance!
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." ~Gene Roddenberry

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill
  • There is substantial amount of evidence for the holohoax. Due to an agreement to not offend anyone, I'll not discuss it any further.
    George_HorseBaconToesanonymousdebaterAmpersandSlanderIsNotDebate1995EmeryPearsonPolaris95
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • @Erfisflat While we both agree that 9/11 was a false flag operation, I cannot deny that the holocaust occurred. It is something I can never deny, history is history and it has happened, we are to learn from such mistakes and to never make them again. I'm sorry Erfisflat, but this is something we will both disagree on.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." ~Gene Roddenberry

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill
  • @George_Horse

    9/11 is history too, and as you might know, history is written by the victors. Pointing out that those victors lied about 9/11 is something they couldn't do about the holohoax. We can agree to disagree, but no claim should go dismissed without first examining the evidence, have you done so? Have you you looked at it with a critical eye?
    George_HorseBaconToesanonymousdebaterPogueEmeryPearson
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • Hitler was a terrible person who killed millions of people as a tyrannical dictator, though nowadays he'd probably plead innocent on the grounds of insanity.
    CuriousGeorgeBaconToesPogueGeorge_Horse
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    Hitler was not innocent! He was the cause of WW2, despite the treaty of Versailles. On top of that, he started the Holocust. 

    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10008193
    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007271
    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007273
    anonymousdebaterGeorge_Horse
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • NopeNope 327 Pts
    Pogue
    i would not say Hitler was the cause of WW ll. Unlike after WW ll, WW l Germany was left to rebuild it self and was in a bad place to be in. Many people warn a war might start again. It is likely the war would have happened even without Hitler.
    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-were-the-main-causes-of-world-war-ii.html

    Lets not forget Hitler was a dictator. To quote CGP "Take the throne to act and the throne acts upon you".
    Also I think Hitler was a very bad person.
    Pogueanonymousdebater
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @Nope
    Oh, you watch CGP Grey too. I know WW1 Germany was left in rubbish and then got it even more. However, Britain and France told Germany not invade Poland but he did it anyway. A war could have been prevented but the majority of the war was because of Germany. Some blame to the WW1 allies. 
    Nopeanonymousdebater
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @Nope Without Hitler ww2 likely would not have happened. Germany's economy was in ruins and its army was weak. The Nazis implemented a new economic plan for Germany and it was a success. Germany got out of the depression. But without Hitler, the Nazis would have never gotten power. 
    Pogue
  • Germany's economy was recovering by the end of 1932, Hitler was simply able to take credit for it. when he took power in 1933. Even the work creation program budgeted at 600 million Reichsmarks in 1933 was something he inherited from Schleicher, who had arranged it and put in place but not managed to spend anything before he was ousted.
    George_Horse
  • According to most people (including myself), Hitler was a bad person. However, why is killing everybody of one race wrong (philosophically speaking...)?
  • Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • George_Horse
  • Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • @anonymousdebater Killing people in general is bad. Not only is it immoral, but if you want to get into the economics of it, do you know how much is invested in hospitals and to make sure babies are born safely??? How much is invested in clothing, time, school, etc throughout a person's life. A person lives and uses products made and distributed by thousands of other people who's efforts are ENTIRELY wasted should that human be killed for no gone reason, much more, an entire "race." Not sure why "race" is even involved as Judaism is just a religion and not much more. If it was a race, pretty sure people back in America wouldn't have called me a "good christian boy" which unknowingly to them, is false. 
    George_Horse
  • In order to address this issue, more questions have to be asked:

    1) who is Adolf Hitler?
    2) what do you mean by "innocent"?
    3) what is Adolf Hitler innocent of? 
    _____________________________________________________

    1) Adolf Hitler is a German politician of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (DSDAP) Nazi party

    2) in order for an individual to be declared innocent, he/she must be free from wrong

    3) Adolf Hitler is responsible for many things (not limited to the list below):

    - a failed attempt at overthrowing the regional government of Munich in a coup in 1923
    - publishing his autobiography: Mein Kampf in 1925
    - assuming the position of German chancellor in 1933
    - assuming the position of German fuhrer in 1934
    - defying the 1919 Treaty of Versailles 
    - defying the 1939 Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact 
    - defying the 1899 Hague Declaration and 1907 Hague Convention on Land Warfare (both regarding the use of poisoned weapons)
    - defying the 1839 Treaty of London
    - invading Austria, Belgium, Czechoslovakian provinces, Poland, Denmark, Norway, North Africa, Yugoslavia, Greece etc.
    - allowing his troops to collectively punish civilians and loot civilian property
    - orchestrating The Holocaust/Shoah between 1941 to 1945 
    - orchestrating Tiergartenstraße 4 (involuntary euthanasia of more than 70,000 people, majority of which had mental or physical impairments)
    - allowing concentration camps to operate overcrowded and rampant with starvation and disease (typhoid, dysentery etc.)
    - allowing the deployment of Zyklon B for the gassing of civilian women and children

    If your question means to ask if Adolf Hitler was innocent of the invasion of foreign territory, defying of peace treaties and genocide, then the answer would be that he wasn't innocent.
     


    EvidenceGeorge_Horse
  • Hitler did nothing right, that's for sure.
    EmeryPearsonGeorge_Horse
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • was he responsible for gassing 6,000,000 jews? 
    SilverishGoldNova
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • Consider why Germany, while fighting a war on two fronts, desperate for fuel and material of every sort, would bother to load millions of Jews on railroad cars, and transport them hundreds, or even thousands of miles to prison, er,  "concentration camps" built especially to house, feed, clothed, even tattooed so that they could be inventoried... just to kill them.

    it is completely illogical. If Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jews, he would have done it the same way that Russian Jews had been doing it to millions (20-80 million, depending on who you ask) of white Christians for the past 30 years at the time. A cheap bullet to the base of the skull, wherever they were found.
    EmeryPearsonEvidence
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • when even questioning the history of this event, any mentioning of the Jew in any sort of negative light is hate speech, and is illegal in some countries. why?
    EmeryPearsonEvidence
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • AmpersandAmpersand 421 Pts
    edited February 25
    Erfisflat said:
    Consider why Germany, while fighting a war on two fronts, desperate for fuel and material of every sort, would bother to load millions of Jews on railroad cars, and transport them hundreds, or even thousands of miles to prison, er,  "concentration camps" built especially to house, feed, clothed, even tattooed so that they could be inventoried... just to kill them.

    it is completely illogical. If Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jews, he would have done it the same way that Russian Jews had been doing it to millions (20-80 million, depending on who you ask) of white Christians for the past 30 years at the time. A cheap bullet to the base of the skull, wherever they were found.
    Hitler was a hateful at least somewhat in case conspiracy theorist who viewed the Jews as an existential threat to Germany and hence from his point of view killing them helped Germany. You'll also note that the Jews were used for Slave labour at the concentration camps, dying slowly but contributing to help Germany's war effort.

    Trying to frame this as Hitler helping or being nice to the Jews is sickening and you are an idiot. Stick to topics like there flat earth where when you make these kind of claims we can just laugh at you in peace because your insane beliefs don't effect anyone but you.
    Evidence
  • @Ampersand you don't defeat the troll by proving it wrong, you defeat the troll by letting it talk nonsense and paying it no attention in return.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • Did someone really just use the phrase “The Jew”.



  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 411 Pts
    A small minority of professional historians argue that the crimes of the Nazi regime were not caused by Hitler himself and his policies (indeed, Hitler was reasonably careful in what and how he said, and he rarely resorted to open militarist and racist rhetoric), but, rather, by the Nazi establishment that hijacked Hitler's ideas and twisted them to serve its expansionist goals.

    Given, however, how much influence over the population Hitler had (and that influence, in turn, has been properly and extensively documented), it does not seem plausible that he would be merely a condemned passive observer of the crimes he did not approve of. Especially since not only did he not publicly condemn or deny those crimes, but he even made regular victorious speeches about Germany evolving in the right direction. So, as much as this argument is curious, I do not think it is very self-consistent.
  • @George_Horse I'm surprised people forget how Mao and Stalin killed more people than him. Mao murdered 76 million people in the Great Chinese Famine and Stalin killed roughly 20 million with Gulags and other means when Hitler only killed 11 million with the holocaust. Winston Churchill killed 10 million in the Bengal Famine when he starved Indians in the British Raj by diverting their crops to fighting the Axis. Hitler was only thought of as evil because he sought to kill ethnic groups, religions and ideologies which is why he is a lot easier to criticize.
    Evidence
  • edited June 21
    @someone234 it's supposed to be "The JUDE" not the JEW. 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    MayCaesar said:
    A small minority of professional historians argue that the crimes of the Nazi regime were not caused by Hitler himself and his policies (indeed, Hitler was reasonably careful in what and how he said, and he rarely resorted to open militarist and racist rhetoric), but, rather, by the Nazi establishment that hijacked Hitler's ideas and twisted them to serve its expansionist goals.

    Given, however, how much influence over the population Hitler had (and that influence, in turn, has been properly and extensively documented), it does not seem plausible that he would be merely a condemned passive observer of the crimes he did not approve of. Especially since not only did he not publicly condemn or deny those crimes, but he even made regular victorious speeches about Germany evolving in the right direction. So, as much as this argument is curious, I do not think it is very self-consistent.
    Sorry for the late response, but this is an interesting point. What if Hitler knew nothing about millions of Jews being gassed? What if it didn't really happen like that? What if the videos we were forced to sit through was of a prison camp cut off from supplies by the Allies,  and weren't gassed, but starved to death and lyme disease ridden?



    Evidence
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • EvidenceEvidence 762 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    MayCaesar said:
    A small minority of professional historians argue that the crimes of the Nazi regime were not caused by Hitler himself and his policies (indeed, Hitler was reasonably careful in what and how he said, and he rarely resorted to open militarist and racist rhetoric), but, rather, by the Nazi establishment that hijacked Hitler's ideas and twisted them to serve its expansionist goals.

    Given, however, how much influence over the population Hitler had (and that influence, in turn, has been properly and extensively documented), it does not seem plausible that he would be merely a condemned passive observer of the crimes he did not approve of. Especially since not only did he not publicly condemn or deny those crimes, but he even made regular victorious speeches about Germany evolving in the right direction. So, as much as this argument is curious, I do not think it is very self-consistent.
    Sorry for the late response, but this is an interesting point. What if Hitler knew nothing about millions of Jews being gassed? What if it didn't really happen like that? What if the videos we were forced to sit through was of a prison camp cut off from supplies by the Allies,  and weren't gassed, but starved to death and lyme disease ridden?




    I agree with you buddy, what if? I mean after what we've learned just in the past 3-4 years is enough for anyone to question any part of history going back to Christ's ascension, or the past 2,000 years.
    So how about we step back a little and try to get a wider perspective, please look at the following two videos, 



    Noticed the Jewish (so called) Star of David (more like a pentagram) and the Nazi swastika used in conjunction!? Now for the sake of argument let's look at this next video:



    And look at the above video through the glasses of this next video:



    What I see after looking at these videos, along with what I seen and heard throughout my life growing up a Hungarian, in former Yugoslavia with Serbians, Croatians, Germans living right on the former Austro-Hungarian border is that it's not about whether Hitler was innocent or not, but what really happened?
    IMHO, as I said from what I heard from friends and family who were from both sides of the War, is that this war opened up long suppressed hatred passed down through the generations, and all sides used this War to take vengeance on each other.
  • EvidenceEvidence 762 Pts

    Amos 5:
    25 “Did you offer Me sacrifices and offerings
    In the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel?
    26 You also carried Sikkuth your king
    And Chiun, your idols,
    The star of your gods,

    Image result for pic of satanic pentagram and swastika

    Which you made for yourselves.
    27 Therefore I will send you into captivity beyond Damascus,”
    Says the Lord, whose name is the God of hosts.




    Image result for pic of satanic pentagram and swastika

    Image result for pic of satanic S and swastika
    Image result for pic of satanic S and swastika

    Satanic "S" - Represents a lightning bolt that means "Destroyer". 
    In mythology, It  was the weapon of Zeus. 
    Worn to have power over others.
    Also was worn  by the feared SS of Nazi Germany.

    What was the relation of the two? Who really orchestrated this Jewish Holocaust of WWII that included 64 million dead of all nations and just about leveled Germany and England!?

    I believe WWII  was a One World sacrifice of 70 million people to the god of this world. And that was just the beginning, the godless Religion called Communism came next;

    Although any attempt to estimate a total number of victims of communism depends greatly on definition,[36] several attempt to compile on previously published data have been made.

    • In his introduction to the Black Book of Communism (1999), Stéphane Courtois gives a "rough approximation, based on unofficial estimates" approaching 100 million killed. In his foreword to the book, Martin Malia notes "a grand total of victims variously estimated by contributors to the volume at between 85 million and 100 million."

    And that too was just the beginning of sorrows, .. only birth pangs really, one bullet at a time. But man is ready to give birth to the ultimate sacrifice, here is one example:



    Time is short, got to hurry and give the master of this world not just millions at a time, but billions of men, women and children in sacrifice, cause he, and his minions know their time is at hand! And to achieve this, takes thousands, even tens of thousands of Hitler's. And I've seen some of them, they kill with a smile.
    Erfisflat
  • Polaris95Polaris95 63 Pts
  • Polaris95Polaris95 63 Pts
    @UnchartedSteppes
    Well, we have Stalin to thank for ending WW2 in the first place, and thereby saving millions of lives. Without Stalin, Hitler would have most probably won the war. And Churchill also contributed to defeating the Germans. While I am not saying they were innocent, they at least did some right (unlike Hitler).
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 411 Pts
    Polaris95 said:
    @UnchartedSteppes
    Well, we have Stalin to thank for ending WW2 in the first place, and thereby saving millions of lives. Without Stalin, Hitler would have most probably won the war. And Churchill also contributed to defeating the Germans. While I am not saying they were innocent, they at least did some right (unlike Hitler).
    Hitler rose Germany from ashes, making it one of the most powerful and economically successful nations in the world within merely a handful of years. And his investment in science and technology leapfrogged the technological base of the leading countries by decades forward. One could even argue that the economical success of West Germany and, later, united Germany is partially based on the foundation Hitler's economical policies built (however politically inconvenient it would be to officially acknowledge this).

    Pretty much every leader in the history of Earth did "some right". In case of leaders such as Hitler, Stalin or Mao, this "some right" is simply too small to reasonably compare to the amount of wrong they have done. However, let us be fair in our judgment: Hitler was not a pure evil in the flesh, he was just a deranged talented ruler who had some good points, but overall delivered hell on Earth.
    Polaris95
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