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Is there truely a "Hell" in the bible? (As in an everlasting lake of fire)
in Religion

A highly debatable topic, what is your position?
  1. ?

    6 votes
    1. Yes
      66.67%
    2. No
      33.33%
Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 



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  • Hey!

    I would argue that there is a hell in the Bible, but I would disagree that it is just an eternal lake of fire. There are multiple mentions to hell in the Bible, of which I will list two. The first one is when Jesus says something like "If your left eye sins against you, remove it, so that your whole body will not suffer in Gehena." The second one is when servents are invited to a banquet, but those who don't dress for the occasion are condemned by the king. He throws them out saying, "Take these men and toss them into the dark where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 

    From the Bible, therefore, it is clear that hell exists, and Jesus alluedes to them in the parables that he tells his followers. What I would disagree about is that hell is a eternal lake of fire. As humans, we do not know what hell is like, but what we can see is that God punishes people fitting to the crime the have done. When Lot and his family are fleeing a burning city that God started to punish the people for sin, God commands no person to turn around to the city, yet Lot's wife does and gets turned into a pillar of salt, so just as the city was wasteful and empty, so a pillar of salt is empty and useless. 

    One good book I might suggest is Dante's Inferno, and although the book is hypothetical, Dante as you would (tours) hell in a dream God gave him. Though some details may have been left out or miswritten, when Dante goes to a new location, people suffer in a new way based on the crime committed. For instance, the lustful are trapped in a tornado where they bash their heads on the rocks before travelling with a new woman in the storm. The betrayers are stuck in ice, closest to Satan for his betrayal of God. Finally, the people who became engrossed with the past to not look to the present or future are forced to walk an eternal path with their heads fastened 180 to look behind as they walk. No human can understand what hell is like, only in death or ressurection will we possibly understand what hell appears to be. 

    Thank you for your time.
    SilverishGoldNovafea
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


  • @WilliamSchulz Ah, interesting. Great argument. 
    fea
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • @SilverishGoldNova

    I believe there are 3 different concepts in Hebrew/Greek that are translated into English as one word.

    I also believe that the only time "the lake of fire" is mentioned is in Revelation referring to where Satan, death, hell, demons, and "followers of the beast" are thrown.
    SilverishGoldNovafea
  • @brontoraptor Many instances of hell in the bible are simply mistranslations, I will say that.
    feabrontoraptorBaconToes
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • Ah, well, eschatologically speaking, it varies.

    Hell is often "Hades." In the New Testament, Hades is depicted to mean the grave where all go until the Day of Judgment--those whose name is in the book of life go to God's kingdom and those whose name did not manage to be in the book are sent to the lake of fire, also called the second death. The term for Hades is the Old Testament is Sheol. 

    In Revelation 20:14, we see: "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death." If we take Hades (other translations use "hell") to be a literal aspect, then we can reasonably say hell is most likely not eternal itself, but the lake of fire is. 

    Theologians often consider it symbolic because it's coupled with "death," which is posed to be the last enemy according to Paul. It's considered personified, and being representative of the first death (the wage of sin), now being "killed again" again (spiritual death). Others take "hell" (or "Hades") to mean the actual place (the grave.) Since the day of Judgment had come, there'd be no use for it, thus it being tossed into the lake of fire. 

    When we extend the verse to 15, we see: "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

    The "book of life" is for all those who received eternal life in Jesus Christ. And those who had not received it, who had not believed, were thrown into the lake of fire to experience the second death, or "spiritual death."

    People consider this to mean tat the soul of those whose names were not written are dying. If we consider what Paul said when he spoke of the eternal life and wage of sin, then it appears the most logical standpoint. The wage of sin is death. For those who believe, they don't experience death for they are granted eternal life. This is, definitely, not a comment referencing the physical bodies as even the physical bodies of believers die, so we can now this means the spiritual bodies. If someone, after the physical death, is still alive but without God, then they are still reasonably alive, even if suffering. if the are to experience torture for eternity, then they are still alive, but suffering. So on and so forth down that vein. So with these passages, an easy conclusion can be reached, resulting in annihilationists. 

    Universalism is another fun concept, but this post is more geared towards the existence of hell as an eternal place, which I answered in the literal depiction of Revelation. 
    BaconToes
  • Yes, hell does exist. "Death" represents spiritual death. All we know is that it is an eternal suffering for unbelievers.
  • In Judaism, the answer is kind of vague. There is a hell (Gehinnom), but a person only stays there for 12 months, developing spiritually and studying Torah till the day they are set free from their anguish to be with their Creator. 
    SilverishGoldNova
  • @anonymousdebater ;

    We know nothing of the sort.

    Perhaps you would care to back up this assertion with some convincing evidence.
  • @Fredsnephew First of all, I assumed that we were only talking about Christianity.

    Here is a passage in Revelation (20:10) - "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

    and Matthew 10:28 - "Both body and soul are destroyed in hell. "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

    and Isaiah 66:24 - "And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

    See https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/j-i-packer-on-why-annihilationism-is-wrong/ and https://www.gotquestions.org/annihilationism.html for more information.
  • Myths and legends abound.

    I would suggest that myths and legends can at best, be regarded as archaic, illogical pseudo-theory.

    Most of what was unknown or misunderstood has by now, been logically explained.

    Using fire as a representation of destructive power or evil is an obvious format and has been regularly used in mythical narrative.

    Nonetheless, given the collective knowledge that I have available to me today. I am no more likely to accept as true the existence of the biblical everlasting lake of fire, as I am to accept as true the existence of the fires of mount doom.

    Though in retrospect, I would suggest that J.R.R. Tolkein probably had a far better understanding and knowledge of the nature of Earth's volcanic core, than Isaiah et al did of their proposed, everlasting lake of fire.


     
  • Hey all,

    I just want to make a quick point from the Christian POV. Some posts I have been reading say that we spend time in Hades, and if our name is on the book of life, we go to heaven, if our name is not, we go to hell.

    This area of debate is something that has been rejected by the Catholic Church, and that is the mention of Limbo. In Dante's Inferno, Vigil and Dante ride past Limbo, where souls wait to go into heaven. However, the Church has already denied that Limbo exists, and that Purgatory is God's path to heaven. 

    Just to clarify, once in hell, there is no return from hell. I don't know Judaism as a religion very well, but one point of disagreement is that once stuck in hell, you can't return. @Judaism mentions that after 12 months in a hell-like area studying the Torah, they can go to heaven. This sounds like the equivalent of Limbo, which I have shown doesn't exist. People who are in hell have made a choice. In life, they chose not to follow God, instead following their own desires and actions. As a result of their own free will, they choose to be in Hell rather than to be in Heaven with God. One does not murder 20 people, die without remorse, and somehow gets into heaven after a period of time. Rather, the Church teaches that if the same person were to repent on his deathbed, he would go to Purgatory, having repented of his sins, and done Penance so as to enter the Kingdom of God. 

    That being said, the Kingdom of God is open to anyone who believes and repents of his / her sin. However, we can choose to follow or stray away from God, and choose whether to repent or not to repent. People in hell have taken the 4th option, to sin and not repent, thus damning themselves to hell for all time. 

    That being said, you might be questioning what Purgatory is, and where this is mentioned in the Bible? Here is a passage of which I will explain: 

    2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)

    As humans, we are not perfect, but we have to be perfect to get into Heaven. In a place of eternal joy and love, is there place for any hint of sin? No! Therefore, in order to make us perfect, God created Purgatory, a place in which we all will atone for our sins and eventually make it into God's heavenly Kingdom. We are not perfect beings, so God helps us get there, as a way of "atonement for the dead." Even saints had to go through Purgatory, but some can go through faster than others if they led a more virtuous life. Nevertheless, even the murderer who repents can still be in heaven if he makes the choice to remorse of his wrongdoing and be willing to repent for his sins.

    Thank you for your time.
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


  • WilliamSchulz 

    You wrote earlier about heaven and hell and how the talmudic view was wrong, I must advise you that you're coming from a Christian perspective, and me, a Jewish one. Of course we won't agree on anything else rather than G-d is divine, and that He created everything we see, even good and evil. 

    You wrote: "@Judaism mentions that after 12 months in a hell-like area studying the Torah, they can go to heaven. This sounds like the equivalent of Limbo, which I have shown doesn't exist. People who are in hell have made a choice. In life, they chose not to follow God, instead of following their own desires and actions. As a result of their own free will, they choose to be in Hell rather than to be in Heaven with God."

    Okay, firstly, Limbo and Purgatory are one of the same, at least I thought so, right? Secondly, you said later in the same post: "As hmans, we are not perfect, but we have to be perfect to get into Heaven. In a place of eternal joy and love, is there place for any hint of sin? No! Therefore, in order to make us perfect, God created Purgatory, a place in which we all will atone for our sins and eventually make it into God's heavenly Kingdom. We are not perfect beings, so God helps us get there, as a way of "atonement for the dead." Even saints had to go through Purgatory, but some can go through faster than others if they led a more virtuous life. Nevertheless, even the murderer who repents can still be in heaven if he makes the choice to remorse of his wrongdoing and be willing to repent for his sins."

    I don't mean to debate the matter here, but being Judaism obviously came first, doesn't it make logical sense to claim that your Catholic ideology simple "stole" our concept of hell? That souls must spend some time, in this case, 12 months before entering heaven. You claim the talmudic view is wrong, but then go on to mention Purgatory! It's exactly the same thing just with a Christian spin!

    To prove this to us, you make mention of 2 Maccabees 12:44-45, we don't believe it as canonical, and secondly, I believe you've got the context wrong. Sheol is a real place, whether one is Christian or Jew. But the main crux is this: You contradict yourself, you first claim that once in hell, you're there for good, then you lay claim that we can get out of hell. But which one is it, you certainly can't have both! Of course, Christianity is full of such errors. 

    Shalom
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