Earth is a ball

Erfisflat

@Silverishgoldnova ;

Redmond said:

https://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round

You think I should start a debate with a debunk of this tired old article so we can send noobs to it instead of rerererefuting it AGAIN and AGAIN?

Ghosty

@Erfisflat
You know, I have to admit, you are making some good points. You must have paid some attention to Medic's arguments in order to rebuttal them. However, I keep seeing a flaw in your arguments. You dismiss a lot of round-earth websites as false and you only seem to accept the flat-earth websites that go with your belief.

 You are asking Redmond to explain how you can explain the Earth is round by using stars and astronomy. Then I guess it is fair to say you have some scientific explanations to make, too.

First of all, explain how ships seem to move up from the horizon. You have said previously that refractions in the water accumulated in the air explain this. How exactly, in scientific detail?

Satellites are fake? Then what about GPS? How do we get the information for weather forecasts? How do you even go online? Satellites are a big part of our daily lives. If they were fake, our lives would have been very different.

How exactly would gravity work on a flat earth?

When you look at the moon, as long as it's not full, you can see a crescent shape. That's the round Earth covering part of the moon! If it was flat, how would the moon look curved (as long as it's not a full moon)? And sometimes you see no moon at all. The round Earth has completely covered the round moon.

If the Earth flat, then if you dig far enough, would you fall to nothingness? How would that be even possible? You have previously said that space is a fairytale, so you can't fall into space according to your previous arguments.

@Medic
@Redmond
Please continue with the debate. It might seem like a waste of time, but at least it's worth trying to convince some flat-earthers.

Medic

Nope. Ignoring science as your starting point is an act of bad faith.

Medic

There's a reason this is a waste of time and intellectual effort on my part and that is because in order to believe that the earth is flat one must first think that all of science is false. It'd be like arguing about corporation tax with a communist.

Medic

The very fact that you use "explain this" shows us the worst weaknesses in the flat earth answer- they start with the conclusion "humans do not fall off fhe earth therefore the earth is flat and then look for proof of that. They must then ignore science and technology. NASA has to be fake too, and therefore all of the governments are lying to us. The justification they use is  "governments have lied and science has been wrong" - but when a theory has been around for so long that it explains everything, and doesn't need to have other things explained in terms of it, like the discredited woo woo peddled by flat Earthers then it becomes accepted. There's a reason this is the case, and erf knows it. He just doesn't want to accept that the theory that hrs been peddling for presumably years is wrong so he keeps digging himself deeper into the hole.

@Ghosty

That's why I refuse to debate flat Earthers any longer. They approach the issue in bad faith and without understanding of the tenets of science, yet adopt the label for their quackery.

Erfisflat

3 whole posts of "intellectual effort" and all we got is "but, but, muh science book "

Medic

I don't know or particularly want to what Erf just said but I expect it's something on the order of reducing science to his straw man of "but but muh science book"

It's indicative of his intellectual dishonesty that he discounts and reduces all the evidence against him as "muh science book" and fake. Hint, erf, if your theory requires discounting all evidence against it as fake it's probably not a very strong one.

Keep proving my point.

Ghosty

Erfisflat said:

3 whole posts of "intellectual effort" and all we got is "but, but, muh science book "

But, but, muh flat-earth vidoes that are 100% correct while every round-earth info is false...

Erfisflat

@ghosty
"I keep seeing a flaw in your arguments. You dismiss a lot of round-earth websites as false and you only seem to accept the flat-earth websites that go with your belief."

I myself have measure the earth and it's water. I'm certain it's not a ball. If people have been fooled into believing some strawman that makes them think the earth is a spinning ball, i can give an alternative explanation and or show the errors in their logic. Like thinking that a swinging pendulum proves the earth is moving. In that case, you really have to first assume the earth is moving to believe that nonsense. Since this is what we were taught in school, it's a pill that's easier to swallow. Saying that I "dismiss" ball earth websites is untrue. I refute every proof brought to me.

"First of all, explain how ships seem to move up from the horizon. You have said previously that refractions in the water accumulated in the air explain this. How exactly, in scientific detail?"

A combination of distance and refraction. The image of the ship appears lower and lower as it goes away, it is obstructed by the ground plane. It's all very simple and there's no other way to explain it. It's also the reason for sunsets, and why the bottoms of cities are cut off over lakes etc. It's easier to demonstrate.


"Then what about GPS?"

A multitude of towers now litter our flat earth. All you have to do is get around a few of them and your position is locked.


"How do we get the information for weather forecasts?"

Doppler radar, amongst other ways.

"How do you even go online? "

https://99percentinvisible.org/article/underwater-cloud-inside-cables-carrying-99-international-data-traffic/

Satellites are some great fantasy fiction stories, but like the ball earth, it's time to wake up from it.

"How exactly would gravity work on a flat earth? "

It's just density and buoyancy. What goes up must come down, I explained it in the first page.

"When you look at the moon, as long as it's not full, you can see a crescent shape. That's the round Earth covering part of the moon! If it was flat, how would the moon look curved (as long as it's not a full moon)? And sometimes you see no moon at all. The round Earth has completely covered the round moon."

No, the moon's crescent shape isn't caused by the earth's shadow. That's wrong even in the ball earth model.

"If the Earth flat, then if you dig far enough, would you fall to nothingness? How would that be even possible? You have previously said that space is a fairytale, so you can't fall into space according to your previous arguments."

I'm not taking hypothetical questions sorry. That'd be like me asking you what is past the edge of space.

Medic

^ repeatedly proving my point

Erfisflat

And no, I'm not ignoring science. I'm refuting the science fiction that has been peddled to us for 500 years with the scientific method.

Medic

I can engage where people are misinformed, and approach the debate in good faith, like economics. I can engage where there are no real answers, like politics or philosophy. I refuse to engage where there are right answers and all the evidence is discounted as fake or reduced to ""indoctrination"".

Ghosty

You are looking for sources that only will prove your argument. 
@Medic ;
Let me use one of your comics. I think it suits this situation.


Here's another one.




"I'm not taking hypothetical questions sorry. That'd be like me asking you what is past the edge of space."
But you said space is a fairytale!

Ghosty

https://youtu.be/FHtvDA0W34I
Here. Felix Baumgartner's fall.
Not from NASA, and you can perfectly see that the Earth is round.
Satisfied? 

Erfisflat

Ghosty said:

https://youtu.be/FHtvDA0W34I
Here. Felix Baumgartner's fall.
Not from NASA, and you can perfectly see that the Earth is round.
Satisfied? 

That's a fisheye lens, obviously. I thought you said you researched the flat earth theory. NASA did help sponsor the jump. This is what your mind let you see. (Timestamps in the screenshots)


This is what the earth's horizon looks a bit more like.



With that camera held just right, any straight line will bend. As Felix nears the grounnd, the earth is even concave, due to the lens.
(It's upside down)

Erfisflat

So in this and every other instance, I'm SHOWING you how it is faked. Not just saying it's faked. Dismiss it if you want. @ghosty

Erfisflat

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Do+I+give+a+?

Ghosty

Just asking, why would there be any reason that NASA and the government would want to lie to us about a round earth?

Erfisflat

The first of many reasons.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

Erfisflat

Currently there are this many :0 videos of earth spinning from space.

Erfisflat

@medic

Medic

don't tell me

don't tell me

it's fake

Medic

Just ignore me it's yet another hoax perpetrated by those rich boffins at NASA with their Gucci lab coats and their diamond encrusted pipettes.

Medic

Just ignore me it's yet another hoax perpetrated by those rich boffins at NASA with their Gucci lab coats and their diamond encrusted pipettes.

SilverishGoldNova

Medic said:

don't tell me

don't tell me

it's fake

It's fake. it's yet another hoax perpetrated by those rich boffins at NASA with their Gucci lab coats and their diamond encrusted pipettes.

SilverishGoldNova

Erfisflat said:

@Silverishgoldnova ;

Redmond said:

https://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round

You think I should start a debate with a debunk of this tired old article so we can send noobs to it instead of rerererefuting it AGAIN and AGAIN?

I've debunked that article before.

http://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/13038/#Comment_13038

Erfisflat

@medic you do realize what the word animation means right?

#globetard

Medic

Oh look, you've tagged me but I've got you blocked. Why yes, your tears are delicious, thanks for asking.

SilverishGoldNova

Medic said:

Oh look, you've tagged me but I've got you blocked. Why yes, your tears are delicious, thanks for asking.

Abracadabra, it is time to tell the truth

Medic said:

I think the flat Earthers just dug their own grave in suggesting the mute feature, now I am free to ignore all evidence!

Erfisflat

@SilverishGoldNova

Now he'll go to his grave thinking the earth is a spinning ball and he'll have that cartoon as proof...

Erfisflat

Maybe he'll read the caption at the beginning one day.

Erfisflat

So, aside from cartoons and theories, any conclusive evidence that we live on a spinning ball?

SilverishGoldNova

Erfisflat said:

So, aside from cartoons and theories, any conclusive evidence that we live on a spinning ball?

gravituh

Ghosty

I seriously hope you can go to space one day to see the round earth.
I would definitely want to see your reaction when you see it.
Yes, muh science book will have to do for me.
I apologize for our intelligence to be so low that we think that the Earth is round.
We must seem so slow to you.
I guess I, along with billions of others, will all go to our graves believing (*cough* knowing *cough*) that the Earth is round.
Oh well.

Erfisflat

Ghosty said:

I seriously hope you can go to space one day to see the round earth.
I would definitely want to see your reaction when you see it.
Yes, muh science book will have to do for me.
I apologize for our intelligence to be so low that we think that the Earth is round.
We must seem so slow to you.
I guess I, along with billions of others, will all go to our graves believing (*cough* knowing *cough*) that the Earth is round.
Oh well.

Oh yours is probably the last generation to believe the ball earth lie. It's hilarious how you THINK you know something that you've never seen. My aim here was to find out HOW you "know". You've only been told about it. By the same people that brought you 9/11. (*cough* gullible little people *cough*)
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Flat earth

Erfisflat

For the record, i was gullible for a long time too. It wasn't until i challenged my own thinking on the matter and did my own experimentation that I figured out the earth wasn't a ball.

Nope

Erfisflat You made a claim that without bias one can only conclude the Earth is flat. You have no way to prove that as all humans a bias and we currently have no non bias sources to look at the evidence and conclude that. Their for you have no way to support your claim and you are jumping to conclusions.

Nope

Erfisflat You say the earth is a ball with so much certainty. I would advise to keep an open my. 

Nope

Erfisflat How does your model explain direction of rotation of hurricanes which cane be explained by the Coriolis effect in are current mode? How does your model explain the lunar eclipse? What about time zones? How do they work in your model? What about how stars change positions in the sky as you move south?

Erfisflat

Nope said:

Erfisflat You made a claim that without bias one can only conclude the Earth is flat. You have no way to prove that as all humans a bias and we currently have no non bias sources to look at the evidence and conclude that. Their for you have no way to support your claim and you are jumping to conclusions.

There is evidence for either side. I'm not talking about any source. I'm talking specifically about an unbiased examination of that evidence. When verifiable information is examined, the evidence by far favors a flat and stationary earth. 

Visiting with the parents now, I will respond to your next posts later this evening.

Nope

Erfisflat I am saying humans will always look at something with some form of bias. Their for you would need something that is not a human to look at the evidence and make it's conclusion to have an non biased examination of the evidence but as of now we have nothing that can do that. So you can't prove a non biased examination of evidence leads to a flat earth at the moment and are jumping to a conclusion.

Erfisflat

Nope said:

Erfisflat You say the earth is a ball with so much certainty. I would advise to keep an open my. 

It's an open mind that got me to this point. I was a space science junky not 3 years ago. Every episode of cosmos, star wars, I had a terabyte hard drive full of space flicks and I was convinced we were on a spinning ball just like the rest of us. It was not until I examined the evidence for a flat earth that made me conclude it is flat. Most ball earthers don't even bother even thinking about the shape of the earth in the first place, much less hearing any arguments in favor of a flat one. Like some hear, it isn't even a possibility and they ignorantly think they "know" the earth is a spinning ball, without even the quaintest reason for believing so. I've UNBIASEDLY examined the evidence for either side (I didn't want the earth to be flat) and the results are conclusive. It's flat. I KNOW this for several reasons and I don't have to believe anyone except for myself.

Erfisflat

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle 

Nope

Erfisflat I know you were a glob earthier. But you seem so certain the earth is flat now. Just like how many glob earths are so sure the earth is a globe. 

Nope

Erfisflat You said the picture you posted was not your model. I am trying to get a sens of what your current flat earth model looks like. How do the sun and moon move in your model. If atmosphere is the cause of the lack of sun light in some place of earth does this mean the moon is above the atmosphere? How does your model explain direction of rotation of hurricanes which cane be explained by the Coriolis effect in are current mode? How does your model explain the lunar eclipse? What about time zones? How do they work in your model? What about how stars change positions in the sky as you move south? What about other celestial body? What about the Earth? Is it moving in any way or is it stationary?

Erfisflat

@nope
"How does your model explain direction of rotation of hurricanes which cane be explained by the Coriolis effect in are current mode?"

These questions pertain to a model which is still being disputed among flat earthers. I'm giving you the answers which make the most sense to me. Whether or not they are the correct explanation for the flat earth theory is yet to be known, one thing is certain and has been repeatedly proved, there is no curvature.

This example of the "coriolis effect" is caused by a small and close sun and moon, circling the earth around the north pole. I believe they exert an electromagnetic force upon water, which is diamagnetic. If cloud movement was dictated by the earth's rotation, they would all go in a general westward direction. We feel wind going in any direction. Why are hurricanes effected by the earth's spin but nothing else is?

"How does your model explain the lunar eclipse?"

This is a case of eliminating the impossible, so that the improbable must be true. Selenelions eliminate the earth coming between the earth and the moon. This is where both the sun and moon are seen above the horizon during an eclipse. Over 50 instances have been recorded and this is impossible if the earth were a ball that came between the sun and moon. Case in point.


Anyone with common sense and even a slight understanding of geometry can deduce that the earth could not possibly cause this shadow to come over the moon from above it. What exactly causes the shadow? I'm still trying to figure it out myself, but I've ruled out the earth as a suspect simply because it has been satisfactorily proved to be without curvature or axial or orbital movement in any measurable circumstance. Saying that the earth causes the shadow on the moon is an assumption.

"What about time zones?"

They are caused by the small circling sun relatively close to the earth. A small close sun is almost obvious after only a few hours of research and has experimental and verifiable evidence. 

" What about how stars change positions in the sky as you move south?"

This is another aspect of the model which greatly differs from the traditional model. On most flat earth models there is a dome over the earth that rotates with the sun and moon. The sun keeps the time of day, the moon ticks away the time of month and the stars track the time of year, along with the "wandering stars".

Erfisflat

Notice, in the video above, that the commentator is a globe earther (the video is being examined unbiasedly, not the commentator) and tries to explain it away, not even considering how ridiculous the explanation is.

Erfisflat

The earth hasn't moved at all that I know of. @nope

Nope

Erfisflat Errr My school computer thinks that the video is a non school related video because it is restricted.  Most of the videos are. : ( I will respond ones I find it on YouTube on my phone. : )

Erfisflat

just search for impossible selenelion