Trump sincerely wants to make US better - The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com - Debate Anything The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com
frame

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com. The only Online Debate Website with Casual, Persuade Me, Formalish, and Formal Online Debate formats. We’re the Leading Online Debate website. Debate popular topics, Debate news, or Debate anything! Debate online for free!


The best online Debate website - DebateIsland.com! The only Online Debate Website with Casual, Persuade Me, Formalish, and Formal Online Debate formats. We’re the Leading Online Debate website. Debate popular topics, Debate news, or Debate anything! Debate online for free!

Trump sincerely wants to make US better
in Politics

By love2debatelove2debate 182 Pts
I will Debate that President Trump sincerely wants to make our country better.  
joecavalrypooterumcakeaarong



Debra AI Prediction

Predicted To Win
Predicted 2nd Place
11%
Margin

Details +



Arguments

  • Yes, Trump is very patriotic and truly wants to make America better for the county and people, not money.
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • He sincerely wants to make HIS image of the USA better.  Meaning he wants to make more money, have hot women, play the game of the dealmaker, be a celebrity, be the best (personally), be loved when he wants loved and feared when he wants feared, and to be the loudmouth who can tell it like it is and just laugh when it offends someone.  That's his America.

    Does he want middle America to thrive?  That depends.  It depends on whether their thriving in any way infringes on he himself thriving.  He can speak out for things like coal because he really doesn't have any money riding on it.  But then again, if the people who really do want to give him money or spend money at his resorts all said screw the coal people and we'll make you a better deal, he'd take the better deal.  Because it's really all about him.

    Mark my words, he will never live anywhere that does not serve his life of luxury, and he only needs the common man for suckering votes, because none of you are ever going to spend the type of money he wants paid at his properties.  Indeed when he was confronted over his cabinet makeup he went out of his way to make it clear he only wants rich people around him because anyone who isn't is just a loser, and why would you want losers in charge?
  • Love the new menu! Trump is a patriotic American and wants to fix the country.
  • Trump is an abusive daddy not a neglectful daddy.

    This doesn't mean he's a good daddy.
  • I'm honestly just lost on what this debate is about. How, exactly, can you prove that someone sincerely wants to accomplish a given goal? We can't "look at what's in his heart," as Kellyanne Conway once famously said, so that means we're out of luck when it comes to understanding his internal thought process. That makes this question impossible to answer because it means that all we can do is look at the words he says and the actions he's taken, and let's face it, anyone who is biased for or against the president will be able to cherry-pick statements he's made that will fit their view of what he actually wants. Especially when it comes to actions, there's a substantial amount of subjectivity that goes into assessing the intents behind them. We can't evaluate them based on effects either because that has nothing to do with whether or not Trump intended to do something beneficial for the country.

    So, I'll just put this out there: can anyone here realistically assess Trump's intentions? I mean, so far, @love2debate, @joecavalry, @yolostide, and @someone234 have all just asserted their positions. @Grenache has spelled his position out a little more, but it's still just a long series of assertions about what motivates Trump without any support. Perhaps each of you would find some way to support your positions based on what he's actually done or said, but I can't for the life of me figure out how that would demonstrate his sincerity, or lack thereof.
  • I agree with the proposition.


  • GrenacheGrenache 65 Pts
    edited January 23
    @whiteflame It is fair to say we all are making assertions and stating opinions.  But then again that's politics, isn't it?  And nobody is more quick to make assertions and state bold opinions than Trump is himself.

    I still think what I wrote is fair because he most definitely is a wealthy man who has surrounded himself with other wealthy people and spent his first year rebuilding Washington to get the taxes and regulators and evironmental concerns out of their way so they can make even more money.  How can that NOT be Trump's America?  And the fame and center of attention component is also something he wears with pride and cultivates himself.
  • @whiteflame the funniest part of this is Trump will understand our assertions but your eloquent defense can't be comprehended by his three-word-sentence brain.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 729 Pts
    edited January 23
    @Grenache Your description of suckering the common man for votes fits the Clintons much better than Trump.  When they left the White House, Hillary said they were flat broke.  Did they decide to live with the common folk?  Perish the thought, they started a "non-profit" and bought 4 mansions.  Then Hillary accepted the position on Secretary of State under Barrack Obama, someone else who will NEVER live amongst the common folk ever again, and income inequality rose to nose-bleed levels.  With the best economy in decades, historically low minority unemployment, exploding consumer confidence, and a reduction of income taxes; Trump is more than the common man could have hoped for.
  • @CYDdharta Because taxation is theft and only the undeserving claim benefits right? :)
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 729 Pts
    edited January 23
    @CYDdharta Because taxation is theft and only the undeserving claim benefits right? :)
    Huh?!?  Maybe you can think of it as a charitable gift if you put a smiley face on the check.
  • @Grenache

    I disagree. I'm not here to just assert my opinion. If my goal was to support or oppose this resolution, I'd provide evidence or at the very least substantial warrants behind that position. I think stating that we should hold ourselves, as debaters, to a better standard than that is not a stretch.

    I'm not here to defend Trump, but your argument is, at best, tangential to the topic at hand. You're essentially asserting that Trump DOES want to make the US better, but that it's his version of "better." Maybe your argument is that that version isn't actually better,  but that's a whole other argument. We're talking about intent here, not the results of his actual policies or personnel selection. 
  • @someone234 Defense? Defense of what? I'm arguing that assessing Trump's sincerity based on any metric is not sufficient to either support or negate the motion. Whether Trump can understand that isn't important because we can.
  • @whiteflame

    One way is by reviewing the results, which are nothing less than spectacular.
  • @SuzyCreamcheese

    Pray tell, how does that allow us to assess the sincerity of Trump's motives? I'm honestly asking because I can't for the life of me understand it. Let's assume that every single policy direction Trump has taken and will ever take is successful in invigorating the country and improving things for every single person. Does that show his sincerity? Do you have to be sincere to be successful? Or, if your point is that everything he's done has been spectacularly awful, then the same applies. Does the lack of success show a lack of sincerity?
  • VaulkVaulk 567 Pts
    edited January 24
    @whiteflame

    The answer to your questions

     whiteflame said:
    @SuzyCreamcheese

    Does that show his sincerity?  Does the lack of success show a lack of sincerity?
    Is yes.

    If you state that you want the invigorate the U.S. Economy and then you take action and succeed in invigorating the U.S. economy...then this is a prime example of your actions reflecting your sincere intentions.  We have but actions to rely upon in all instances of opinion regarding people's sincerity of intention...there's not another metric of measurement.  If someone says "I love America" then we have but to evaluate the actions of that person, and if their actions reflect their ideology then we can deduce that they are sincere in their intentions.

    Likewise if you say that you want to invigorate the U.S. economy and then you fail to act in any way to do so and consequently fail...then YES...we can safely deduce that the actions of that person do NOT reflect their intent and they are therefor insincere about their desire to invigorate the economy.

    It's that simple.
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • @SuzyCreamcheese

    Pray tell, how does that allow us to assess the sincerity of Trump's motives? I'm honestly asking because I can't for the life of me understand it. Let's assume that every single policy direction Trump has taken and will ever take is successful in invigorating the country and improving things for every single person. Does that show his sincerity? Do you have to be sincere to be successful? Or, if your point is that everything he's done has been spectacularly awful, then the same applies. Does the lack of success show a lack of sincerity?
    If you're really interested, Trump laid out almost all of the policies he's pursuing and explained his reasoning in his 2012 book "Time To Get Tough: Make America Great Again".
  • @whiteflame
    Unless he's sincerely trying to ruin the US and is making a complete disaster of it, then yes, results are an indicator of sincerity.
  • VaulkVaulk 567 Pts
    edited January 24
    @SuzyCreamcheese

    As far as making the U.S. a better place, Trump has done some amazing things...most of which won't find the light in our current Media save a few outlets.

    He recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Four American presidents promised to do it, but only one actually did. This is why the American people elected Trump. He does what he promises to do, for better or for worse — in this case, definitely for the better. 

    He got NATO allies to kick in $12 billion more toward our collective security. Decades of pleading by the Bush and Obama administrations failed to get NATO allies to meet their financial commitments to the alliance, but Trump's tough talk and reticence to affirm America's Article V commitment did the trick. NATO is stronger as a result.

    He has virtually eliminated the Islamic State's physical caliphate. Trump removed the constraints Obama placed on our military and let it drive the terrorists from their strongholds.

    He admitted he was wrong on Afghanistan and reversed Obama's disastrous withdrawal. In a rare admission, Trump declared: "My original instinct was to pull out. ... But all my life, I've heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk in the Oval Office. ... A hasty withdrawal would create a vacuum for terrorists."

    He enacted historic tax and regulatory reform that has unleashed economic growth. Trump signed the first comprehensive tax reform in three decades and removed the wet blanket of Obama-era regulations smothering our economy. We are now heading into our third consecutive quarter of above 3 percent growth.  Something that Obama said couldn't be done.  Boosted by US economy figures and a global markets boom, the Dow Jones stock market index hit a record high, passing the 25,000 mark for the first time.  Markets in the US had been boosted by the Republicans’ tax reforms and job growth figures. It means the Dow has surged by more than 31 per cent since Mr Trump’s inauguration.

    The stimulation of the economy has resulted in the absolute lowest unemployment rate in 17 years.  Specifically Women's unemployment is the lowest in 18 years.

    Most importantly, and this is just my opinion, he kept Hillary Clinton out of the Oval Office.  

    Trump's definitely not a popular guy, in fact I'd say safely that most people think he's an A$$hole, but the President isn't in that position to be a "Yes man" to the citizens of our Country.  We don't elect presidents to pander to our wants...we put them there to make the tough decisions based on what's best for our Country.  That being said...he's a Human being and he's not perfect...at least he's not doubling the U.S. debt and telling everyone that it's for the best.

    No one cares that he said "Sh!thole Countries", if he even did.  No one cares that he tweets things that people find offensive.  No one cares that he fans the flames on sensitive topics.  And when I say "No one cares" I mean that no one of any consequence spends more than 10 minutes either being offended or shrugging their shoulders at petty things Trump says.  It's inconsequential and if it wasn't...something would have been done about it already...so far nothing has.
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • @CYDdharta, I get accused of being off topic but then the pro-Trump side brings in the Clintons.

    I'm not pro-Clintons.  I'm not pro-Democrat.  In fact I'm a moderate independent and believe both major parties have been screwing the public and blocking out attempts to stop them.  
  • @whiteflame, Oh please, this debate heading smacks of inviting people to express their opinions.  There is no frame up at the top which says please insert a link to a study with a verifiable metric or else don't bother to post.  You're just trying to answer valid criticisms by defining them out of the scope.  That technique does not persuade me nor any other serious critic of Trump.
  • Vaulk said:

    If you state that you want the invigorate the U.S. Economy and then you take action and succeed in invigorating the U.S. economy...then this is a prime example of your actions reflecting your sincere intentions.  We have but actions to rely upon in all instances of opinion regarding people's sincerity of intention...there's not another metric of measurement.  If someone says "I love America" then we have but to evaluate the actions of that person, and if their actions reflect their ideology then we can deduce that they are sincere in their intentions.

    Likewise if you say that you want to invigorate the U.S. economy and then you fail to act in any way to do so and consequently fail...then YES...we can safely deduce that the actions of that person do NOT reflect their intent and they are therefor insincere about their desire to invigorate the economy.

    It's that simple.
    So, In that case, I have a few more questions for you. If someone states that they want to accomplish a certain task and is not successful in doing so, are they inherently insincere? Your argument seems to be that the combination of stated intentions and results shows sincerity, so is failure to accomplish a stated goal a sign of insincerity? What if that failure is not a result of their actions, but rather, the actions of others? Looking at it from the other side of the coin, what if their stated intents are brought to fruition by others besides themselves? Are they still sincere? 

    Beyond that, how can we assess the sincerity of an immeasurable or complex intention? In this case, we're talking about the desire to make the US better. It's partially a matter of the economy, so that is a measurable metric. But how do we measure betterment of foreign or domestic policy? Can we even measure those without inputting a substantial amount of subjectivity regarding what is "good" policy and what is "bad" policy? Maybe that's a decent basis for debate, but then the question morphs from "Does Trump sincerely want to make the US better?" to "Has the Trump presidency been net beneficial to the US?" Maybe the two are intimately tied together, though that seems to turn away from Trump's personal intentions.
  • CYDdharta said:
    If you're really interested, Trump laid out almost all of the policies he's pursuing and explained his reasoning in his 2012 book "Time To Get Tough: Make America Great Again".
    So your argument is that his book demonstrates his sincerity? In that case, is he insincere if any of the policies he's taken or will take don't match what was stated in the book?
  • @whiteflame
    Unless he's sincerely trying to ruin the US and is making a complete disaster of it, then yes, results are an indicator of sincerity.
    And how should we measure those results? Which results should we care about most? How do we assess if he's "trying to ruin the US"? If actual harm comes to the US while he's in office, regardless of whether or not he precipitated it, would that show a lack of sincerity on his part? Do good results brought about by other people (say, Congress) show his sincerity? Or can we only measure his sincerity by the success of the policies he's clearly articulated and pursued himself?
  • Grenache said:
    @whiteflame, Oh please, this debate heading smacks of inviting people to express their opinions.  There is no frame up at the top which says please insert a link to a study with a verifiable metric or else don't bother to post.  You're just trying to answer valid criticisms by defining them out of the scope.  That technique does not persuade me nor any other serious critic of Trump.
    I never said that no one could express their opinions. I'm saying that expressing those opinions doesn't answer the question at hand. You're welcome to engage in whatever debate you want to have, but I'm honestly interested in how we assess Trump's sincerity. I'm also not trying to convince you of anything - hell, I'm a pretty avid critic of Trump myself. If you've got valid criticisms, though, I would hope you'd do more than just assert them. I do think any debate (regardless of the framing) is enhanced by supporting your arguments. If you want to just present your opinion, be my guest. Most of the people here are doing it, too. I just don't think that's much of a debate.
  • So your argument is that his book demonstrates his sincerity? In that case, is he insincere if any of the policies he's taken or will take don't match what was stated in the book?
    He's been talking about the policies he is implementing for at least the last four years.  Is it your contention that he is not sincere about what he has said and what he is doing?
  • @whiteflame Well, as a measure of his sincerity, he's obviosuly been successful with the policies he's clearly articulated and pursued himself.

    So we can presume he meant what he said, since he has accomplished them.
  • CYDdharta said:
    He's been talking about the policies he is implementing for at least the last four years.  Is it your contention that he is not sincere about what he has said and what he is doing?
    I'm not arguing that he's insincere. I'm arguing that we can't know his personal sincerity. We can know that he had ideas, that he justified those ideas as helping the US, that he chose to implement those ideas as policies, and that those policies will help many in the US. We can't know how sincere he was about implementing them solely for the sake of making the US a better place. There are other motives that could have driven him to make those decisions. I'm not arguing that those motives are bad or that he was definitely motivated by something else, only that we can't know has been his chief motivation for every decision he's made as president.
  • @whiteflame Well, as a measure of his sincerity, he's obviosuly been successful with the policies he's clearly articulated and pursued himself.

    So we can presume he meant what he said, since he has accomplished them.
    But that doesn't really answer my questions. Even if I agreed that he's been successful with every one of his policy directions (and I'm not so sure that's the case considering just how many of them have been stymied), is his success with those policy choices a demonstration of his sincerity? Does it tell us that his motive was chiefly to benefit the US as a whole? Would any failure in his attempts to pass policy make him insincere, or just a victim of a partisan political machine? Similarly, does any success mean that his motives were always to help the US become a better place, or could he possibly have other reasons for wanting to pass certain policies?
  • @whiteflame I suppose he could have other motives for wanting to #MAGA. But let's take your argument and ask the opposing question.

    If a baseball player says he wants to hit a home run, but then he strikes out, does that mean he never wanted to hit a home run? Was he being insincere when he said he wanted to, or was he foiled by the opposition?
  • @whiteflame I suppose he could have other motives for wanting to #MAGA. But let's take your argument and ask the opposing question.

    If a baseball player says he wants to hit a home run, but then he strikes out, does that mean he never wanted to hit a home run? Was he being insincere when he said he wanted to, or was he foiled by the opposition?
    You're making my point for me. I'm arguing that success or failure of an action, even one that seems like it has an obvious motive to achieve it, is not evidence of sincerity or lack thereof. If we agree on that, then why are you using success as a metric for determining whether or not he's sincere? 
  • I'm not arguing that he's insincere. I'm arguing that we can't know his personal sincerity. We can know that he had ideas, that he justified those ideas as helping the US, that he chose to implement those ideas as policies, and that those policies will help many in the US. We can't know how sincere he was about implementing them solely for the sake of making the US a better place. There are other motives that could have driven him to make those decisions. I'm not arguing that those motives are bad or that he was definitely motivated by something else, only that we can't know has been his chief motivation for every decision he's made as president.
    Once again, we CAN know that he had ideas, and he justified those ideas as to how they would help US citizens.  He wrote about them years ago.  A rarity for an elected official, he's actually doing what he said needed to be done and is implementing his ideas as policy, and they are working.  Trump never needed the job, obviously, since he's donating his salary to charity.  he made money with Republicans in office and he made money with Democrats in office.  Without making another penny, he could have spent half a million dollars a day likely for the rest of his life and still wouldn't have run out of money.  You can't judge his sincerity because you haven't looked into the subject, but the resources are out there for anyone who is truly interested. 
  • @whiteflame Because his stated purpose is to #MAGA and it would be difficult to doubt his insincerity. Achievements are proof of intent as well as success.

    The only other arguments to be made are that it's either an accident, or else Trump is sincerely trying to ruin the country and failing miserably.
  • CYDdharta said:
    Once again, we CAN know that he had ideas, and he justified those ideas as to how they would help US citizens.  He wrote about them years ago.  A rarity for an elected official, he's actually doing what he said needed to be done and is implementing his ideas as policy, and they are working.
    I agree. We can know that he had clear intentions to take the actions he has taken. We know that his stated intentions were that those policies would help the US, though whether those statements are sincere is the question I'm proffering. The last statement - his ability to translate statements made into action - is something I'd contest given how many times he's had issues getting his ideas passed as policy, but that's neither here nor there. We're not talking about what he's achieved or will achieve. We're talking about his sincere desires, the impetus behind his pursuit of those achievements.
    CYDdharta said:
    Trump never needed the job, obviously, since he's donating his salary to charity.  he made money with Republicans in office and he made money with Democrats in office.  Without making another penny, he could have spent half a million dollars a day likely for the rest of his life and still wouldn't have run out of money.  You can't judge his sincerity because you haven't looked into the subject, but the resources are out there for anyone who is truly interested.  
    At last, someone presents something that indicates why we should believe his sincerity. Honestly, though I disagree with the logic you're providing, I don't really wish to argue it because this is all I've been looking for from the start: an explanation that delves into his motives and why they are likely the result of a sincere desire to help better the US. So, I appreciate the explanation. I do believe there are complicating factors that make judging his sincerity more complicated than you're making it out to be (and I have looked into the subject in some detail), but as I say, I don't wish to argue it. All I wanted to see was someone who actually delved into why his motives likely align or don't align with a desire to benefit to benefit the US, and you've delivered that. Again, much appreciated.
  • someone234someone234 615 Pts
    edited January 26
    @Whiteflame is that kid in class who asks their English teacher why they're not learning a foreign language instead.
  • @whiteflame Because his stated purpose is to #MAGA and it would be difficult to doubt his insincerity. Achievements are proof of intent as well as success.

    The only other arguments to be made are that it's either an accident, or else Trump is sincerely trying to ruin the country and failing miserably.
    If someone states that they are doing something for a specific purpose, are they always sincere? Is every stated purpose for a given action sincerely held? It's not difficult to doubt his sincerity, otherwise there wouldn't be a bevy of media outlets that have clearly stated that doubt. I'm not going to argue that they're correct or incorrect, I'm merely pointing out that seeing a separate meaning behind a public face is not incredibly difficult. I'm sure you've done it with Democratic politicians with whom you disagree. You say that achievements are proof of intent, but that doesn't fit with your example. You clearly agree with me that failures are not proof of a lack of intention. The reverse is true as well. Success doesn't prove that someone had good intentions, they're merely proof that a given action had positive impacts.

    I also disagree with your assertions regarding what other arguments there are. I've seen numerous people argue that the benefits we see as a country are secondary to the benefits received by specific subsets of the population, and that the benefits to the country at large pale in comparison to the benefits to those subsets. The argument even allows that Trump has benefited the US, but that those benefits come at a larger cost that will come to bear over time. This is part of what I'm getting at: we can't judge intentions based on outcomes because, realistically, we can't judge the outcomes this early in his presidency. And, if things do generally turn out negative for the US in the next couple of years, there may be a lot of contributing factors to those negative outcomes, many of which may be outside of Trump's control. At that point, others could easily use your same arguments to contend that Trump has no sincere desire to benefit the US because he hasn't benefited the US. 
  • @Whiteflame is that kid in class who asks their English teacher why they're not learning a foreign language instead.
    Honestly not sure how to take that. I enjoyed my English classes, thank you.
  • @whiteflame - Assessing Donad Trump's sincerity?  Sincerity?  It takes only the laziest of internet searches to come up with news institutions nailing him to the wall for rampant lies.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-white-house-liar-us-president-dishonest-history-richard-nixon-robert-dallek-oval-offic-a8073036.html.  This isn't a case of any random President subjected to critcism, it is the most bombastic bald faced liar to ever be in the office of President.  And yet you want to go after me for being unable to really gage his sincerity?
    Oakchairbc
  • Grenache said:
    @whiteflame - Assessing Donad Trump's sincerity?  Sincerity?  It takes only the laziest of internet searches to come up with news institutions nailing him to the wall for rampant lies.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-white-house-liar-us-president-dishonest-history-richard-nixon-robert-dallek-oval-offic-a8073036.html.  This isn't a case of any random President subjected to critcism, it is the most bombastic bald faced liar to ever be in the office of President.  And yet you want to go after me for being unable to really gage his sincerity?
    We're talking about a specific direction for his sincerity in this case, i.e. that his strongest wish as president is to make the US better. I agree, the president has repeatedly lied in public statements, and that definitely makes him look insincere on those issues on which he has lied. Does that mean that he is insincere in his stated desire to make the US a better place? I think there's a lot of reasonable criticisms you can make of the president, and you're making some of them. The issue I have is that you're expanding that criticism to a point that you have not yet justified by essentially stating that he's a serial liar, so he must not sincerely want to make the US a better country. How do his lies on specific issues prove that to be true?

    I'm absolutely no fan of his, and I think his policy directions will cause far more harm than good. The falsehoods in his speeches and Twitter posts do nothing but damage the office of the presidency and US credibility. Does their occurrence mean that he doesn't want to make the US better? I don't think so. If your sole goal here is just to chew out Trump for much of what he's done and said, be my guest. I'm only stating that we can't know whether he's done any of the things he's done while in office out of an intentional desire to better the US or not. I do think it's reasonable for us to ask the question and debate which motives play the biggest roles in his decision-making, but that's a separate issue from the outcomes.
  • @whiteflame Thus far, he has kept strictly to his campaign promises. Something polished politicians never do. Thus far, his sincerity is evident by his actions, which yes, happen to be successful.

    And while it's true that some subsets have been helped more (black and women unemployment at lowest level in years), rather than be envious, we should be happy for them.
  • @whiteflame Thus far, he has kept strictly to his campaign promises. Something polished politicians never do. Thus far, his sincerity is evident by his actions, which yes, happen to be successful.

    And while it's true that some subsets have been helped more (black and women unemployment at lowest level in years), rather than be envious, we should be happy for them.
    Following through on his campaign promises makes him sincere in that he clearly wanted to implement them. He is sincere about wanting those policies to become reality. That doesn't mean he is sincere in viewing them as beneficial to the US.

    I was actually talking about how some groups that were well off to begin with are being helped quite a bit more by this administration, but that's besides the point. My point was that there are alternative explanations that don't require malicious intent. He can be sincere, but not in the way you're trying to argue.
  • @whiteflame I have given several key indicators that prove intent. Besides his words and actions, he has delivered on all his promises. We have nothing else on which to judge his sincerity.

    His words and actions have clearly improved the country, regardless of any unprovable predictions about the future.
  • @whiteflame I have given several key indicators that prove intent. Besides his words and actions, he has delivered on all his promises. We have nothing else on which to judge his sincerity.

    His words and actions have clearly improved the country, regardless of any unprovable predictions about the future.
    What you've given are indicators that he a) has had policy ideas, b) that he's supported those policy ideas by saying they're good for the country, and c) has delivered on some of them by making them into actual policies. My point is and has been that none of that proves sincere intention. It shows that he had those ideas and that he was, at least, very good at selling them to the American people as something they would want. It doesn't show that his chief motivating force behind pushing for these policies is the same one he's selling. If you look at CYDdharta's post, he actually takes the time to examine why other motivating forces are not at play, and while I disagree with him, he does it in a way that focuses solely on those forces. I see that as a much more viable way to analyze whether someone is sincere.

    As for the rest of what you've said here, a lot of it is personal bias. You say he's delivered on all of his promises, which I'd say is factually inaccurate. He's TRIED to deliver on them, but many of his policy directions have not been turned into actual policy changes. You can say that that shows his sincerity, but as I've said above, that only shows that he is sincere in wanting to get these policies passed. You say that his "words and actions have clearly improved the country," and I would vehemently disagree with that, though, once again, it's not pertinent to the conversation about his sincerity. Whether he's actually benefited the US or not does not affirm or deny his sincerity.
  • @whiteflame Then give us ANYTHING that proves anyone's sincerity. If not their own words and deeds, what is it that proves sincerity?

    And remember, no matter what you say I can simply say I don't believe you.
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 423 Pts
    edited January 27
    @whiteflame Then give us ANYTHING that proves anyone's sincerity. If not their own words and deeds, what is it that proves sincerity?

    And remember, no matter what you say I can simply say I don't believe you.
    My point, from my very first post, was that we can't prove his sincerity or anyone else's. That was literally how I started out this whole chain of posts. CYDdharta took a good stab at it by trying to eliminate other possible explanations for the motives behind Trump's actions, but even doing that very well would only tell us which motives are not likely to be driving his actions, not which ones are. I also don't think the question of sincerity is integral to understanding whether or not someone has been or will be a good president, though I think a sincere desire to better the country does improve the odds.
  • @whiteflame Well then the question is moot. No one will ever know for sure if Trump is sincere. But if you're wise, you'll listen closely to his words because that is what is going to happen.
    CYDdharta
  • @whiteflame Well then the question is moot. No one will ever know for sure if Trump is sincere. But if you're wise, you'll listen closely to his words because that is what is going to happen.
    I agree with you there, we're never likely to find out. And, unfortunately, I do listen rather closely to his words.
  • @whiteflame Then again; by your standards, even Jesus Christ couldn't be proven to be entirely sincere.
  • CYDdharta said:
    @whiteflame Then again; by your standards, even Jesus Christ couldn't be proven to be entirely sincere.
    Agreed.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

DebateIsland.com

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
2018 DebateIsland.com, All rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Awesome Debates
BestDealWins.com
Terms of Service

Get In Touch