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Does the Democratic Party deserve the continued support of its loyal African American voters?
in Politics

By ale5ale5 236 Pts
DNC is losing support from the African Americans, and as we've seen much controversy centered around Alabama election, there was heightened sensitivity around African American women continue to support DNC.
I still think that DNC will get support from African Americans, as during Trump administration it will be difficult for African Americans accept perceived racists remarks, Trump policies, amd Trump's support by extreme right wing.
  1. Does the Democratic Party deserve the continued support of its loyal African American voters?

    9 votes
    1. Yes
      33.33%
    2. No
      66.67%
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  • The Dems are having many issues, and support from African American women is one of them.

    Black women is a strong political force that made a difference in many elections. You have celebrities like Oprah that have a high following, Alabama election that was impacted by black women.  
    Now there is representation in the Judicial committee.

    In 2018 Black Women Deserve More From Democrats — It’s Long Overdue
    https://www.essence.com/news/politics/2018-black-women-deserve-more-democrats

    Dems gotta be more careful to ensure they have their continued support.
  • @islander507 Black women elected a white man in Alabama.

    Trump's policies have helped both blacks and women tremendously. Work, jobs, money, mean things to people.
    George_Horse
  • The problem with the current Democratic narrative is its demonstrative lack of belief in the people it is supposed to protect. The Democratic leadership does not believe that African-American people and other minorities are strong individuals able to take care of themselves; instead, it does everything to secure their status as oppressed people, and to hook them up on "welfare trains" from which there is no escape - making them dependent on the Democratic candidates winning.

    With the lack of any significant employment history as a result, the affected people are forever stuck in poverty, with no real employment venues. It does not just happen in the US to minorities; it happens all around Europe to the poor as well. However, in the US this state of the matter is much more noticeable, because here the vast majority of people enjoy a pretty prosperous life, which makes the poor caught in the welfare pits stand out more still.

    All this demonstrates once again the old adage: it is impossible to solve a systematic problem by focusing on its manifestations. You do not beat racism by perpetuating racial division, you beat racism by treating everyone equally. And that means avoiding the "privileged/oppressed" rhetoric, and employing the one based on pure equality instead.

    I cannot say that the Republican party does that either, since it for the most part demonstratively ignores the problems minorities face - but at the very least it does not constantly perpetuate them, barring a few categories that the Christian lobby in the party is unhappy with.

    I am a minority (immigrant), and I would vote for the Republican party without a second thought when given a choice between GOP and DNC. Yet that would be a very bitter vote, dictated more by the lack of a meaningful choice, than my genuine sympathy with the Republican cause.
  • What "losing support" are you talking about?

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/08/the-2018-midterm-vote-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

    The black vote is 10:1 for the democrats, which is at the higher end of the scale it tends to go around. In elections it's sometimes been a little higher like I believe it was better for Obama and and Mondale (Reagan was racist, so he his portion of the black vote dropped off a lot in his second election).This is backed up by the link in @islander507 's post which states black women deserve more from the democrats because they are such dedicated supporters and constitute its base.

    I'd like to see the Democratic party do more for African Americans in the USA but there can be no doubt that they are the political vanguard of black rights and support currently. When the alternative is people like @MayCeaser talking about how it'd be good to take actions which would disproportionately harm African Americans and thrown them into poverty stripping away welfare, it's not hard to see why black people align with the Democrats.
  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    @Ampersand

    Why in a sense should maybe some of the African Americans in the US, rely on any political party by via aligning themselves for this or that particular reason?

    And via the same venue of thought, why in a sense should maybe some of the other cultures in the US, rely on any political party by via aligning themselves for this or that particular reason? 
  • Democrats don't deserve anyone's support unless they actually start repealing laws (specifically drug laws) to lower the incarceration and police shooting rates. They also need to try and lower the cost of living, tuition, and healthcare instead of just raising wages and throwing money at people. When police brutality lowers along with various living costs, then the party responsible for that deserves their support.
  • @TTKDB

    People vote for political parties that they believe will promote the same values as them and in the USA it's a two-horse race where I would be happy for people to support minor third parties but most people consider it a wasted vote, so it can largely be considered a cost-benefit analysis between voting for the Democrats or the Republicans. The Republicans have rooted their strategy for the last 50 years in appealing to racism so it's not hard to rationalise finding the Democrats the preferable option.
  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    @funperson

    "Democrats don't deserve anyone's support unless they actually start repealing laws (specifically drug laws) to lower the incarceration and police shooting rates."

    Why can't the offenders refrain from committing the various crimes that they commit year after year?

    This way they won't maybe find themselves being incarcerated to begin with? 

    And why can't the race on race, and non race on race shootings be  reduced by the individuals themselves, by they refraining from committing gun violence? 

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

    True or false question;

    More individuals are shot via, non race on race and race on race shootings? 

    And why can't some refrain from committing assualt and battery on others via citizen on citizen brutality? 

    True or false question,

    More individuals are hurt by citizen on citizen brutality, then they are by alleged police brutality?



  • @TTKDB They could just not do drugs, but they have a right to be able to use them. No matter what you and I think, a party that legalizes drugs will be very popular.
    Yes, a lot of people are responsible for shooting others, but that doesn't refute the claim that police shootings need to be lowered and stopped to gain support.
  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    What about the race on race shootings?

    What about the non race on race shootings? 

    Why can't the offenders themselves refrain from committing their shooting offenses? 

    Why can't the various offenders who commit their crimes refrain from committing their crimes, thus placing themselves in jail via the court system? 

    And why can't the various offenders refrain from the brutality they they commit against the other citizens via their various crimes? 

    Like assualt and battery, hit and runs, carjackings, robberies, abductions, domestic violence and abuse, muggings, and so on?
  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    Correction:

    And why can't the various offenders refrain from the brutality that they commit against the other citizens via their various crimes? 
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 756 Pts
    edited November 25
    There is a good representation of the approach to economical activities many people employ. This requires a little bit of math knowledge, but approachable by almost anyone.

    Let us represent one's immediate economical satisfaction by a curve, for example:



    The higher you are on the vertical axis, the LESS satisfied you are at this very moment with your economical state.

    ---

    Here is what happens to many people. They find themselves at one of the local minima; let us say, at the left-most one. They are somewhat comfortable in it, but obviously they would like more out of life; ideally, they would love to achieve the global minimum eventually, since that is the point that maximizes their economical satisfaction.

    But here is the crux: they are at the local minimum. To get out of that minimum, they have to first go up the curve to the right. During this volatile period, their economical satisfaction drops, as they take some risks and make some difficult investments. We come to an interesting matter of affairs: to leave the point of local maximum satisfaction, on has to go through a period of having lower immediate satisfaction.

    Long-term thinking would imply that this painful period is worth going through, because eventually the person will achieve the next local minimum, which makes them economically more satisfied than before.
    Short-term thinking would prohibit such a route, as it necessitates a period of being less economically satisfied than before at the moment. While the reward at the end would validate all the efforts, the route to that reward is too painful for the individual to take.

    ---

    This, I feel, is the trap many minorities are caught in as a result of Democratic policies. The welfare-focused policies have created a comfy bubble, a local minimum, that still leave the person in a state of poverty, however. It would be desirable for the minority member to escape that minimum and arrive at a much lower minimum eventually - but it is made extremely hard and painful to do.

    One has to first find a job, which is extremely difficult, given that they have been living off welfare for a long time and have a terrible resume full of blanks. If they still somehow manage to land a decent job, they immediately lose their welfare benefits they have grown accustomed to, leading to a period of extreme financial insecurity and discomfort. And even somehow having gone through that problem as well and eventually joining the middle class - they still will be picked on by other members of their minority class, envious of their success and pushing the government for taxing them heavily in order to fund those still on welfare. The depth of this local minimum pit is unbelievably big, and very few ever manage to escape it permanently and never be haunted by its menacing darkness.

    Does a person living on a pitiful welfare and eating instant noodles every day want to escape this lifestyle, to get a decent job and join a middle class? I would guess the vast majority of them do. But Democratic politicians do not pay heed to this desire, do they? They give these people free stuff, and these people know that they will lose this free stuff if they try to get off the hook - so they will still keep voting Democrat, even knowing that long-term such a vote plays against their interest and makes them permanently stuck in this sad local minimum. Democrats are happy with having so many hooked up voters; minorities are unhappy, but do not have much choice; other reasonable people voice their protests, but they are silenced by the new class of neo-socialists that shame them by calling them "selfish" and "trickle-down economists"; and lastly, the neo-socialists are happy, because for the first period in the history of America they finally managed to establish a strong foothold in this formerly free market economy.

    I do not have negative feelings towards those people who go down the welfare root; it is understandable, if unfortunate. However, ultimately, their inability to do long-term thinking and to take an appropriate action is their own doing, and they are fully responsible for remaining in that state. And this creates problems for everyone else, as they appropriate a fraction of other people's achievements, the fraction that, in terms of the market as a whole, might as well be thrown into a camping fire. 
    Those who prey on them, and those who allow themselves to be preyed, are both responsible for this matter of affairs. However, preying on others is merely a request for a permission; allowing one to be preyed on, on the other hand, is a consent.

    ---

    Is voting Republican the solution? Not really. It could remove some of these hooks welfare state policies have created, but it will not remove the mindset of politicians who are out to control everything they can control, nor will it remove people's inability to remove themselves from local minima due to the odds being stacked against them.

    The real solution would be first educating people about the importance of long-term thinking versus emotion-based instant gratification approach. Once people think long-term, once the majority of the population does not take loans they have a chance to not be able to repay, once standing in a long queue to the Social Security office appointment is replaced by people seeking employment opportunities and refusing to give up their freedom for the sake of pitiful donations - only then can we really start solving the economical problems minorities, and, at large, everyone else as well, face. 

    Until that happens, both Republicans and Democrats will keep pushing for authoritarian policies that do a good job at forcing people into submission, but a very poor job at realizing even 1% of the potential this nation has. Democrats will keep creating more and more welfare pits and Detroits; Republicans will keep creating similar subsidy pits for producers and international traders; and the market will be a battlefield between public organizations and transnational corporations, with everyone else swept under the rug. Economical issues of minorities are a very tiny slice of this large overbaked pie.

    ---

    That said, the US still has not gone as far down that route as most other nations have. However, the world as a whole sets a very poor standard in this regard, and being well above that standard is the bare minimum a civilized economy should do, and it hardly should be praised. Yes, while in the US only around 15% people are stuck in those welfare pits, in, say, Finland it is closer to 30%. However, 15% of the US population is still dozens millions innocent people, people who could contribute to the growth of the economy, as well as to their personal success - as opposed to being a drain on the economy, and to having zero future in store for them.
    George_Horse
  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    @funperson

    The legalization of recreational weed, and then the rest of society having to put up with the same weed users using weed in their vehicles in front of a grocery store, or a malls parking lot is blatantly sad.

    Then you have some the under aged weed users still using weed in the face of the very law making weed illegal for those same kids to smoke weed even when it's still illegal for those kids to have weed makes no sense.

    It makes one wonder what happened is maybe worse, the adult weed users using weed around the youth, or the youth using weed around the youth?

    Or what is worse, the drunk driver, mixing their alcohol use, with their weed use, or the weed user mixing their drug use, with their drugged driving practices? 

    And just think, the rest of society has been living with, putting up with, and seeing family members, and in some instances where nearly entire families have been lost to the drunk drivers for nearly 80 plus years? (1.6 million so far?)

    The same society, deserves to see some of the weed users breaking the same laws that some of the alcohol users have been doing for years? 

    The legalization of both recreational weed and alcohol have, and are still both "lost with lost" situations.

    When innocent individuals are hurt, maimed, or worse, they maybe lose their lives to the drunk and drugged drivers, is the taxation and revenue dialogue supposed to somehow make things in a sense better? 
  • @TTKDB I don't understand the question.
  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    @funperson

    Are you a pro recreational weed supporter?

    "Yes, a lot of people are responsible for shooting others, but that doesn't refute the claim that police shootings need to be lowered and stopped to gain support."

    Support for whom? 

    The families of the citizens that the offenders committed a crime against? 

    And the shootings done by the citizens, there should be an effort from they themselves to refrain from committing their crimes with firearms as well, shouldn't they? 




  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    @funperson

    "They could just not do drugs, but they have a right to be able to use them. No matter what you and I think, a party that legalizes drugs will be very popular."

    Will the same so called (popular party) be looked at with fondness, if their are weed using adults using weed around the youth?

    Will the same so called (popular party) be looked at with fondness, when the drugged driving drivers who are high on weed and driving drugged up, and go about causing traffic accidents and innocent people are hurt, maimed, or killed by the drugged drivers? 

    Will the same so called (popular party) be looked at with fondness, when the underaged weed user, is teaching another underaged individual how to use weed for the first time?

    And because of the weed using adults, and the underaged weed using individuals who go about influencing others to use weed like those weed users have and do, will that same so called (popular party) still be viewed by the rest of society who haven't been influenced by the same weed users to use weed like the weed user do?

    What is the likelihood that the rest of society will view the so called (popular party) attached to the "legalization of weed occurances" with the same fondness that the weed users likely do? 


  • @TTKDB Yea I support weed. Support from anybody in the population who thinks police shootings are a problem. Yes, criminals are 100% responsible for their crimes. I don't see why not; people are not going to blame the party if adults start using weed around children. They're also not gonna blame weed legalization for driving fatalities. If they were, they'd be saying "ban alcohol" too.
  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    @funperson

    What about race on race shootings, do you have an issue with them?

    What about non race on race shootings, do you have an issue with them? 

    Do you or do you not maybe have an issue with the drunk drivers having killed 1.6 million innocent people?

    The drugged drivers have a growing number of fatalities being attributed to them as well.

    Do you or do you not maybe have an issue with that? 

    So when a drug users kids becomes a drug user just like their parents, do you maybe not have an issue with that? 

  • @TTKDB ;

    When a tool is abused, leading to human casualties, then the solution is not to prohibit the possession and usage of that tool, but to address the problem of the abuser.

    An axe can be used to kill a few people before being apprehended by the police. At the same time, the axe can be used to fight off a bear, to build a makeshift camp in winter in wilderness in order to survive. The tool can be used both to take and save lives.

    Marijuana can be used while driving with disastrous consequences. At the same time, marijuana can be used by someone at the bottom of their lives in order to cope up with their situation mentally, and avoid having to commit suicide. It can be used both to take and save lives.

    If someone has drugged themselves into oblivion and caused a road accident, deal with the situation. If someone is peacefully smoking marijuana at their home, not bothering anyone, then leave them alone.

    There is a lot of people in the world fearing the consequences of freedom and wanting it restricted. It has proved to be a very poor approach in law-making throughout the whole history, but the lesson still has not been learned by the vast majority of the population, sadly.
    George_Horse
  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    @MayCaesar

    "There is a lot of people in the world fearing the consequences of freedom and wanting it restricted. It has proved to be a very poor approach in law-making throughout the whole history, but the lesson still has not been learned by the vast majority of the population, sadly."

    The laws made and created in the United States, and abused by some of the anti law citizens, have no one but their selves to blame for their self created issues. 

    Why can't the offenders learn from what the previous offenders did, and not mirror their offenses with offences of their own?

    You would think that when people are killed by drunk drivers, that the 1.6 million innocent people killed by the drunk drivers, that the alcohol abusing drunk driver, who will probably get drunk again today or tomorrow, and then drive drunk, but gets home, because the drunk driver was lucky enough that while driving drunk, was able to get home without hurting himself and or maybe killing more innocent people in the process, like previous drunk drivers did? 

    You would think that after the first drunk driving fatality, that the other drunk drivers would have gotten the hint by not driving while drunk.

    And now 8 plus decades later, the drunk driving accidents are basically their own statistical history book, in drunk driving deaths and accidents that could have been avoided if an alcohol drinker didn't mix their alcohol abuse with their drunk driving abuse and not drive from wherever to try to get home without causing an accident in the process?

    The offenders problem, is the law breaking offender themselves, ignoring a law because it apparently got in the way of their individual abuses?

    The law works by putting the offender in jail, instead of letting the offending drunk driver continuing to drive drunk, and placing himself or the other innocent people on the roadways in danger because of the drunk drivers abuses.

    So hopefully the offender will learn their lesson, and no longer abuse the drunk driving laws.


  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    @MayCaesar

    I posed this question to "funperson"

    (So when a drug users kids becomes a drug user just like their parents, do you maybe not have an issue with that?)

    Is this maybe your answer to the above question? 

    "If someone is peacefully smoking marijuana at their home, not bothering anyone, then leave them alone."
  • Sad my family is ill-informed about the Democrats history. Racist s.o.bs, they founded the KKK, and were against the black man at first, then later on after the 60s, now they wanna give the black man a chance. What? Democrats ain't gettin my vote! To hell wit em! I'll be voting for Republicans, not them Democrats. I may have voted for Donald Trump 2 years ago, but that ain't mean I was a supporter, I just ain't want Hillary to be president!  :joy: So no, they ain't deserve a chance. They failed us and we still strugglin. 
    “Communism is evil. Its driving forces are the deadly sins of envy and hatred.” ~Peter Drucker 

    "It's not a gun control problem, it's a cultural control problem."
    Bob Barr
  • @TTKDB

    I believe that crimes should be addressed as a matter of fact, not as a matter of possibility. I do not have any problem with people addicted to drugs, as long as they leave others alone. I even do not have a problem with a person smoking marijuana while overating a vehicle, provided the person does it properly. Or with the person holding a gun while drugged, if they manage to control themselves.

    But once the crime has been committed, then all bets are off. Not before, but after. 

    I should also emphasise that I practice the concept of individual responsibility. I do not think that a drug user has anyone to blame for the matter of affairs, other than themselves. Unless somebody physically forced them to get addicted to drugs, they always had a choice, and just because their parents influenced them negatively in this regard, does not take their responsibility away - their parents are not their slavers, and they should have thought things through before blindly following their elders.
  • TTKDBTTKDB 200 Pts
    @MayCaesar

    "I even do not have a problem with a person smoking marijuana while overating a vehicle, provided the person does it properly."

    You could ask the chief of police and or the district attorney in your locality how they may feel about your views? 
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