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Is global warming an issue?

Debate Information

Position: Against
February 2018 Tournament | Round 1 - Debate 1
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  1. Live Poll

    ?

    20 votes
    1. Yes
      80.00%
    2. No
      20.00%



Debra AI Prediction

Against
Predicted To Win
56%
Likely
44%
Unlikely

Details +


For:

51% (99 Points)


Against:

49% (97 Points)



Votes: 14


Debate Type: Traditional Debate



Voting Format: Casual Voting

Opponent: Pogue

Rounds: 3

Time Per Round: 24 Hours Per Round


Voting Period: 24 Hours


Round 1

Round 2

Round 3

Voting



Post Argument Now Debate Details +



    Arguments


  • Round 1 | Position: Against
    someone234someone234 647 Pts   -   edited February 2018
    I would like to begin by stating that I am not going to disprove Global Warming existing. It can be considered real by both sides and I concede here and now to Proposition that Global Warming exists as a phenomenon and that warming and cooling periods in Earth's history have indeed been real, from the warm sun of the dinosaurs to the brutal cold of the Arctic and Antarctic poles during the ice age (https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hottest-earths-ever-been)  periods of warming and cooling have existed and are indeed real. The question at hand is also not about whether or not Global Warming is man-initiated or not. It is in fact my case here today that Global Warming is indeed involving man-made causes and natural causes and on top of that that while it is real is not an 'issue' per se.

    Since I assume that the proposition will agree with the opposition and actually hope the opposition doesn't disagree with the idea that global warming is real and also somewhat man-made, I am not going to post proof of this here since it is going to be conceded and very strongly imprinted into the mind of the audience by Proposition for me. If the Proposition strangely decides to not agree on either count or rather to say that global warming is entirely man-made as opposed to partially so, I will provide well-sourced argumentation and rebuttal in Round 2. It's a bit hard to know where I'm meant to attack Prop since Prop has left Opp with nothing but a tragic excuse of a Round 1 forfeit where they were confused which side they'd been assigned.

    Let's get brutally honest here, everyone is probably going to die. You're going to die, I'm going to die and guess what; even the Earth itself is bound to die some day along with its beloved Sun. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20150323-how-long-will-life-on-earth-last), (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/17/stephen-hawking-humans-will-die-out-within-1000-years-unless-we/), (https://www.livescience.com/32879-what-happens-to-earth-when-sun-dies.html). So, it's not about if we are dooming what is not already doomed but more about how much of it makes it an 'issue'. Let's be real here, we have terrorism in one place (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/terrorism), tin-pot dictatorships threatening to use no less than nuclear bombs in another (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/920589/North-Korea-US-Donald-Trump-nuclear-war-holocaust-threat) and a ton of non-war issues including poverty, gender discrimination, cyber bullying and endless ever-evolving methods for the filthiest of our species to con and abuse the vulnerability of the less cynical. Right now there can be millions of locked slaves in the basements of people and we literally would never know without searching every cavity. This has honestly happened for huge amounts of time such as the famous Austrian kidnap victim of (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/kidnap-victim-natascha-kampusch-quiet-flashbacks-come/) who was help captive for no less than 8 years of her life in crucial developmental stages of prepubescence and late teen progression into adulthood. There's so much wrong with this world, and so much of it is non-environmental.

    To end this debate with a final killer point that is leading on from the previous one, let's analyse the potential of fighting said "issue" and how we really define an issue. Since the Earth, Sun and our species are almost certainly doomed 'in the end', global warming and this whole issue of our mortality is not truly an 'issue' as the key part of an 'issue' is that it is important. Why would it be important to put our resources into saving the inevitably doomed rather than to solve what is caused entirely by us and what is therefore having real permanent solution such as the stated criminality and wars that will only end with real brutal investigation and constant ever-evolving effort by the government. Additionally, global warming is actually already solved theoretically... Yes, this is the beautiful crux of the case I make... Global Warming has known methods to prevent it and known things that add to its propulsion it's just that we are too lazy as a species to install green policy worldwide and very few nations have the Green Party of their nation anywhere near the top level of the others in vote quantity. On the other hand, there are issues out there, yes 'issues' as in important things to solve, from supercomplex math equations to the cure for Leukaemia, there's nearly unlimited ever-changing 'issues' in this world and we already fully understand and fully know how to solve Global Warming it's just a case of making all nations agree to implement policy to prevent it which means it's not actually a solvable issue on any mental level, only on a practical one as it's only the practise of preventing it that's left to do, not the theoretical calculating of how to solve it.

    In summary, we are all going to die anyway along with this planet, global warming is one of the least important world problems to remotely qualify enough to be an 'issue' and on top of that it has been solved and a solved issue is thus no longer one.
    DrCereal
  • Round 1 | Position: For
    PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    Global Warming is an issue! It will cause a dramatic change in Earth's climate (that is why it is called climate change). If needed, I will post evidence of man-made climate change. 
    New predictions say that by the end of the century, sea levels will rise by 15 meters (49.21ft) [1].
    This is what is underwater with 10-meter increments. 
    [2]
    This will cause a massive refugee crisis with millions upon millions of people. 
    Here are some other consequences of global warming and it causing climate change. 
    1. More frequent and severe weather
    2. Higher death rates
    3. Dirtier air
    4. Higher wildlife extinction rates
    5. More acidic oceans [5]
    In the next argument, I will explain why these are a problem. 

    Sources:
    [1]  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/03/30/antarctic-loss-could-double-expected-sea-level-rise-by-2100-scientists-say/?utm_term=.3a625fa8cba7

    [2] https://sos.noaa.gov/datasets/sea-level-rise-10m-increments/

    [3] https://sos.noaa.gov/datasets/sea-level-rise-impact-of-6-meter-red/

    [4] http://www.climatecentral.org/news/us-with-10-feet-of-sea-level-rise-17428

    [5] https://www.nrdc.org/stories/are-effects-global-warming-really-bad
    BaconToesZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Round 2 | Position: For
    PoguePogue 584 Pts   -   edited February 2018
    In my previous argument, I listed these reasons for why it is bad:
    1. More frequent and severe weather
    2. Higher death rates
    3. Dirtier air
    4. Higher wildlife extinction rates
    5. More acidic oceans [1]
    In this argument, I will explain why these are a problem and the final one, I will create a counter argument.
    Before I do that, I would like to thank my opponent for this debate and explain the climate refugees. 
    In an article [2], it states, This climate-exposed population is being problematically positioned to speak for an entire planet under threat. Tuvaluans are being used as the immediate evidence of displacement that the climate change crisis narrative seems to require. Those identified as imminent climate refugees are being held up like ventriloquists to present a particular (western) ‘crisis of nature’."
    Many places that have low elevation will be under water, causing death and a massive refugee crisis, much bigger than today [3].
    Now onto the points. 
    1.  The increasing number of droughts, intense storms, and floods we're seeing as our warming atmosphere holds—and then dumps—more moisture poses risks to public health and safety, too. Prolonged dry spells mean more than just scorched lawns. Drought conditions jeopardize access to clean drinking water, fuel out-of-control wildfires, and result in dust storms, extreme heat events, and flash flooding in the US. Elsewhere around the world, lack of water is a leading cause of death and serious disease. At the opposite end of the spectrum, heavier rains cause streams, rivers, and lakes to overflow, which damages life and property, contaminates drinking water, creates hazardous-material spills and promotes mold infestation and unhealthy air. A warmer, wetter world is also a boon for food-borne and waterborne illnesses and disease-carrying insects such as mosquitoes, fleas, and ticks. All the snow that the east coast of the Us got a few weeks ago, could also be due to global warming. It could actually mean colder and more intense winter storms because more water is evaporating into the atmosphere to when it gets colder it will freeze and fall through the water cycle [9] [10] [11]"The number of record high-temperature events in the United States has been increasing, while the number of record low-temperature events has been decreasing, since 1950. The U.S. has also witnessed increasing numbers of intense rainfall events.10" (NASA). Also, our carbon footprint. More example of extreme weather are the recent Tropical Cyclones that hit the US. Hurricanes are driven by the transfer of heat from the ocean to the air. With a rising sea temperature, which is because of humans considering science and the ocean getting warmer too fast. [12]

    2. Today's scientists point to climate change as "the biggest global health threat of the 21st century." As temperatures spike, so does the incidence of illness, emergency room visits, and death. "There are more hot days in places where people aren't used to it," Haq says. "They don't have to air-condition or can't afford it. One or two days isn't a big deal. But four days straight where temperatures don't go down, even at night, leads to severe health consequences." In the United States, hundreds of heat-related deaths occur each year due to direct impacts and the indirect effects of heat-exacerbated, life-threatening illnesses, such as heat exhaustion, heatstroke, and cardiovascular and kidney diseases. Indeed, extreme heat kills more Americans each year, on average, than hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and lightning combined. 

    3. Rising temperatures also worsen air pollution by increasing ground-level ozone, which is created when pollution from cars, factories, and other sources react to sunlight and heat. Ground-level ozone is the main component of smog, and the hotter things get, the more of it we have. Dirtier air is linked to higher hospital admission rates and higher death rates for asthmatics. It worsens the health of people suffering from a cardiac or pulmonary disease. And warmer temperatures also significantly increase airborne pollen, which is bad news for those who suffer from hay fever and other allergies.

    4. This is a problem because it happening within decades and centuries. 
    This graph based on the comparison of atmospheric samples contained in ice cores and more recent direct  measurements provides evidence that atmospheric CO2 has increased  since the Industrial Revolution  Source LINKhttpwwwncdcnoaagovpaleoicecoreNOAA
     [6] [7]
    As land and sea undergo rapid changes, the animals that inhabit them are doomed to disappear if they don't adapt quickly enough. They will not! Some will make it, and some won't. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's 2014 assessment, many lands, freshwater, and ocean species are shifting their geographic ranges to cooler climes or higher altitudes, in an attempt to escape warming. They're changing seasonal behaviors and traditional migration patterns, too. And yet many still face "increased extinction risk due to climate change." Indeed, a 2015 study showed that vertebrate species—animals with backbones, like fish, birds, mammals, amphibians, and reptiles—are disappearing 114 times faster than they should be, a phenomenon that has been linked to climate change, pollution, and deforestation.

    5. The earth's marine ecosystems are under pressure as a result of climate change. Oceans are becoming more acidic, due in large part to their absorption of some of our excess emissions. As this acidification accelerates, it poses a serious threat to underwater life, particular creatures with calcium carbonate shells or skeletons, including mollusks, crabs, and corals. This can have a huge impact on shellfisheries. Indeed, as of 2015, acidification is believed to have cost the Pacific Northwest oyster industry nearly $110 million. Coastal communities in 15 states that depend on the $1 billion nationwide annual harvest of oysters, clams, and other shelled mollusks face similar long-term economic risks. "Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the acidity of surface ocean waters has increased by about 30 percent.11,12 This increase is the result of humans emitting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and hence more being absorbed into the oceans. The amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the upper layer of the oceans is increasing by about 2 billion tons per year.13,14" [6]

    Sources:
    [1]  https://www.nrdc.org/stories/are-effects-global-warming-really-bad
    [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378011002019
    [3] http://www.debatingeurope.eu/2017/05/09/will-climate-change-lead-even-bigger-refugee-crisis/#.Wo2LgaOZMdU
    [4]  https://sos.noaa.gov/datasets/sea-level-rise-10m-increments/
    [5] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/03/30/antarctic-loss-could-double-expected-sea-level-rise-by-2100-scientists-say/?utm_term=.3a625fa8cba7
    [6] https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
    [7] https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html
    [8] https://skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-global-warming.htm
    [9] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-global-warming-harsher-winter/
    [10] https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/12/28/16827022/climate-change-cold-arctic-snap-us-canada-jet-stream
    [11] https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/cold-snow-climate-change.html#.WnkayaOZMdU
    [12] youtube.com/watch?v=_0TCrGtTEQM
    SlanderIsNotDebate1995
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Round 2 | Position: Against
    someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    Hello, ladies gentlemen and other LGBT+ variants, I am the speaker for the Opposition Round 2.

    I will begin my speech saying that I am in dismay at the complete lack of rebuttal or addressing of my Round 1 points in either Round 1 or Round 2 of the Proposition's case. It is usually considered bad conduct to raise any new points in the last round so if Proposition decides to address my points in Round 3 with some new points raised, this should be frowned upon by the judges I urge.

    I would like to reiterate the three key points of my Round 1 debate:
    1) The Earth, the Sun and consequently the human species is currently considered doomed to die no matter what.[1][2][3]
    2) On the scale of importance to classify Global Warming as an Issue, it's really quite low compared to other world issues such as terrorism, kidnapping, human trafficking and a multitude of other major issues including poverty and Leukaemia.
    3) Global Warming has already been fully solved. We know everything there is to know about it. An issue where the solution has been found is no longer an issue but a former issue that simply needs the found solution implemented.

    Not a single one of these three points has been addressed by the Proposition thus far. So, let's go on to explore the case made by the Proposition that Global Warming is an issue.

    The five key points raised are:
    1. More frequent and severe weather
    2. Higher death rates
    3. Dirtier air
    4. Higher wildlife extinction rates
    5. More acidic oceans

    Do you notice that in all five points, it is never explained how this makes it an issue? This may seem very pedantic but the debate is if Global Warming is an issue or not as opposed to whether or not Global Warming can cause the 5 things stated or not. In other words, nowhere so far have we seen the Proposition explain why Global Warming is an issue, they have only described the details of Global Warming and its after-effects.

    It would be too easy to leave the debate here and too dull for the judges so I will indeed go into the Round 2 of the Proposition and analyse what they raise but I want to make it crystal-clear:

    This is a debate about whether or not Global Warming is an issue, not about whether or not Global Warming is real or not.

    Regarding the Tuvaluans and the Refugee crisis, the climate change mentioned is not Global Warming but rising sea levels amongst other things. Let's say that we have a cake that is rotting, the rotting is the issue but the fungus itself is the cause of the issue rather than the issue.

    Cause =/= Effect

    So, in the mentioned Climate Refugee crisis, we are dealing with effects of the O-zone layer being damaged by Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and Hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs).[4][5] The mentioned effects may be side by side with Global Warming as results of the Greenhouse Effect [6] but are not actually Global Warming and even if somehow Global Warming itself is indirectly causing them, the cause is not the effect so if the effect is proven to be an issue this has no say on the classification of the cause as an issue in and of itself.

    Let me explain this in simpler terms.

    Let's say that the Greenhouse Effect and the process involved with it is a drug. This drug results in a variety of things that include:

    1. More frequent and severe weather
    2. Higher death rates
    3. Dirtier air
    4. Higher wildlife extinction rates
    5. More acidic oceans

    Alright. So this imaginary drug is tested on a few subjects. 

    Subjects who did not have the placebo (meaning fake pill to see how much of the effect is psychological)[7] consistently had elevated IQ (which can be considered to not be an issue). Unfortunately, the elevated IQ came at quite a price as there were many side effects which can be considered to be equivalents of:

    1. More frequent and severe weather
    2. Higher death rates
    3. Dirtier air
    4. Higher wildlife extinction rates
    5. More acidic oceans

    So... maybe:
    1) Having to urinate more frequently
    2) Higher blood pressure
    3) Faster growing pubic hair
    4) Lower sperm count
    5) Higher acidity of spit that can corrode the teeth

    These 5 side effects can all be issues but this does not make the mentioned effect of elevated IQ an issue.

    In this entire debate the actual specific warming of the globe has yet to be proven to be an issue.

    I thank you for reading, it was a pleasure to write. Enjoy the debate.


    Sources:
    [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20150323-how-long-will-life-on-earth-last
    [2] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/17/stephen-hawking-humans-will-die-out-within-1000-years-unless-we/
    [3] https://www.livescience.com/32879-what-happens-to-earth-when-sun-dies.html
    [4] https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/hats/publictn/elkins/cfcs.html
    [5] http://apps.sepa.org.uk/spripa/pages/substanceinformation.aspx?pid=121
    [6] https://climatekids.nasa.gov/greenhouse-effect/
    [7] https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/what-is-the-placebo-effect
  • Round 3 | Position: Against
    someone234someone234 647 Pts   -   edited February 2018


    Ask yourself this reader; is something an issue if the only reason it isn't yet solved because we don't consider it too bad?

    We know how to solve global warming, we know everything to do with climate change (which I explained is not actually global warming, since for instance acidity of oceans isn't due to temperature) and also we are absolutely doomed as a planet regardless. So what's the issue?

    The world is warming and when it gets to the stage of being so hot we may go extinct, that's when we'll forcibly make every nation fight it together as they will have to reduce the emissions in ways that are already known (renewable energy etc.).

    So what's the 'issue'?

    There isn't one. The world is warming, is that so bad?


    Footnote: A future problem/issue is not a problem/issue today.

    SlanderIsNotDebate1995
  • Round 3 | Position: For
    PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    First, I will counter my opponents' arguments from round 1. 
    They are as follows:
    1) The Earth, the Sun and consequently the human species is currently considered doomed to die no matter what. [1][2][3]
    2) On the scale of importance to classify Global Warming as an Issue, it's really quite low compared to other world issues such as terrorism, kidnapping, human trafficking and a multitude of other major issues including poverty and Leukemia.
    3) Global Warming has already been fully solved. We know everything there is to know about it. An issue where the solution has been found is no longer an issue but a former issue that simply needs the found solution implemented.

    I will not address them in order. Let's start with 3.
    3. Just because we know a solution, does not mean an issue is solved. The issue has not been solved yet so therefore it is still an issue. We are still warming! If it were solved, ocean warming would not have doubled in recent decades [1]. Scientists say that it will be catastrophic to warm to 2 degrees Celsius and this is predicted to happen by the end of this century [2] [3] [4]. From 1880 to 2012, it has warmed 0.85 degrees Celsius [5]. It will happen to quick so animals will not have time to evolve to adapt further supporting my point. Even the Paris Climate Accord solutions only have a 5% chance of succeeding [6]

    2. That is blatantly false and baseless! Global warming (the main cause of climate change) is a reason for the doomsday clock to go from 3 minutes to midnight 2.5 minutes (among other things like Donald Trump and nuclear weapons) [7]. In 2018, climate change (with the main cause of global warming) is again a reason for this low time to midnight [8]. For more information on the doomsday clock visit [9]. 

    1. This seems like a philosophical argument. There are multiple generations after us and we should not destroy them. It will be 1,000,000,000 years till the sun destroys Earth which by then we would have already destroyed ourselves, left Earth, or killed by an asteroid [10]

    I will admit that more acidic oceans do not support my point because global warming is not equal to climate change and a more acidic ocean is not due to warming but the emissions that we emit that cause warming. However, global warming does play a major or main factor in the global climate change. 

    In summary of counters to my opponents round 1 arguments: number 3 is invalid because we do not have a solution that has been implemented, and it most likely would not succeed. Number 2 is a baseless and false claim. It is countered by the overwhelming majority of scientists and the doomsday clock. Number 1 is a philosophical and irrelevant argument. 

    Round 2 counters: There are no upsides to burning coal and oil except for energy but alternatives are better. Your analogy is irrelevant. 

    Round 3 counters: It seems the only argument I have not countered is "The world is warming and when it gets to the stage of being so hot we may go extinct, that's when we'll forcibly make every nation fight it together as they will have to reduce the emissions in ways that are already known (renewable energy etc.)." This counters his entire argument because it will be a problem in the future so it is a problem. Also, when it gets to that stage (end of century (2099/2100 which I will probably be alive for) 2 ° Celsius  it would already have been to late [11] [12] [13]


    In summary of my points (that are valid): 
    1. More frequent and severe weather
    2. Higher death rates
    3. Dirtier air
    4. Higher wildlife extinction rates
    All of which were explained in round 2. 

    This has proven to be fun debate and I wish you the best of luck. 

    Sources: 
    [1] http://research.noaa.gov/News/NewsArchive/LatestNews/TabId/684/ArtMID/1768/ArticleID/11572/Ocean-warming-doubles-in-recent-decades.aspx
    [2] https://theconversation.com/why-is-climate-changes-2-degrees-celsius-of-warming-limit-so-important-82058
    [3] https://www.livescience.com/58891-why-2-degrees-celsius-increase-matters.html
    [4] https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/31/health/climate-change-two-degrees-studies/index.html
    [5] https://www2.ucar.edu/climate/faq/how-much-has-global-temperature-risen-last-100-years
    [6] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/31/paris-climate-deal-2c-warming-study
    [7] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-27/nuclear-doomsday-clock-ticks-closest-to-midnight-in-64-years/8216458
    [8] https://thebulletin.org/2018-doomsday-clock-statement
    [9] 
    [10] http://www.wired.co.uk/article/stephen-hawking-100-years-on-earth-prediction-starmus-festival
    [11] https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming#.Wo4rqqOZMdU
    [12] https://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/global-warming/solutions/global-warming-solutions-reduce-emissions#.Wo4ruKOZMdU
    [13] http://www.ccacoalition.org/en/content/why-we-need-act-now
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
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