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Are there only two genders/sexes?

Opening Argument

What do you think? I personally believe that there are only 2 genders. Lets make it simple. Chromosones determine your gender, and chromosomal abnormalities are not genders. If you have a Y chromosone, or 2, or 3 of them, etc, you are male. If you don't have one, you are a female.  
joecavalry
  1. How many genders are there?

    28 votes
    1. Only 2, male and female
      67.86%
    2. There are much more than that.
      32.14%
Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
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Arguments

  • “You can be male because you were born female, but you have 5-alphareductase deficiency and so you grew a penis at age 12. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but you are insensitive to androgens, and so you have a female body. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but your Y is missing the SRY gene, and so you have a female body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but one of your X's HAS an SRY gene, and so you have a male body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes- but also a Y," she wrote. "You can be female because you have only one X chromosome at all. And you can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but your heart and brain are male. And vice - effing - versa."

    This is from a biology teacher, and one of the best summaries thus far.
    SilverishGoldNovaJustIgnoreMePogueEmeryPearson
  • Gooberry said:
    “You can be male because you were born female, but you have 5-alphareductase deficiency and so you grew a penis at age 12. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but you are insensitive to androgens, and so you have a female body. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but your Y is missing the SRY gene, and so you have a female body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but one of your X's HAS an SRY gene, and so you have a male body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes- but also a Y," she wrote. "You can be female because you have only one X chromosome at all. And you can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but your heart and brain are male. And vice - effing - versa."

    This is from a biology teacher, and one of the best summaries thus far.
    Is that the issue in the vast majority gender question cases?  Are those the people demanding to use the restrooms and locker rooms of people of the other sex?
    PogueSilverishGoldNovaSlanderIsNotDebate1995
  • NopeNope 297 Pts
    SilverishGoldNova The question is not specific. Gender is often used to mean how society views someone sexually (This may suggest their might be more than two). Sex is normally defined genetically. Am I to assume the definitions of both words?
    EmeryPearson
  • I will post later, the key is to distinguish between sex and gender, while one can be lesbian or transgender, that does not change the fact that they were a man or woman. Gender is a choice (wrong one at that) and sex is biological.
    SilverishGoldNova
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


  • CYDdharta said:
    Gooberry said:
    “You can be male because you were born female, but you have 5-alphareductase deficiency and so you grew a penis at age 12. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but you are insensitive to androgens, and so you have a female body. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but your Y is missing the SRY gene, and so you have a female body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but one of your X's HAS an SRY gene, and so you have a male body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes- but also a Y," she wrote. "You can be female because you have only one X chromosome at all. And you can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but your heart and brain are male. And vice - effing - versa."

    This is from a biology teacher, and one of the best summaries thus far.
    Is that the issue in the vast majority gender question cases?  Are those the people demanding to use the restrooms and locker rooms of people of the other sex?

    This is the issue in the question being asked by the OP
  • I will post later, the key is to distinguish between sex and gender, while one can be lesbian or transgender, that does not change the fact that they were a man or woman. Gender is a choice (wrong one at that) and sex is biological.
    @WilliamSchulz First of all, lesbianism has nothing to do with gender, that has to do with sexual orientation. 

    According to APA sexual orientation is: 

    "Sexual orientation refers to an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic and/or sexual attractions to men, women or both sexes. Sexual orientation also refers to a person's sense of identity based on those attractions, related behaviors and membership in a community of others who share those attractions. Research over several decades has demonstrated that sexual orientation ranges along a continuum, from exclusive attraction to the other sex to exclusive attraction to the same sex."  

    Recuperated from: http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx

    According to the APA dictionary of psychology, gender is defined as the following. 

    "Gender (n): the condition of being male, female, or neuter. In a human context, the distinction between gender and SEX reflects the usage of these terms: Sex usually refers to the biological aspects of maleness or femaleness, whereas gender implies the psychological, behavioral, social, and cultural aspects of being male or female (i.e., masculinity or femininity.)"

    Gender is also not always a choice. There are a lot of psychological factors that are involved in people whose gender doesn't match their sex. In a lot of the cases it has to do with their parent's behaviors towards them and sometimes there are hormones involved. 
    PogueJustIgnoreMeEmeryPearson
  • I will post later, the key is to distinguish between sex and gender, while one can be lesbian or transgender, that does not change the fact that they were a man or woman. Gender is a choice (wrong one at that) and sex is biological.
    @WilliamSchulz First of all, lesbianism has nothing to do with gender, that has to do with sexual orientation. 

    According to APA sexual orientation is: 

    "Sexual orientation refers to an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic and/or sexual attractions to men, women or both sexes. Sexual orientation also refers to a person's sense of identity based on those attractions, related behaviors and membership in a community of others who share those attractions. Research over several decades has demonstrated that sexual orientation ranges along a continuum, from exclusive attraction to the other sex to exclusive attraction to the same sex."  

    Recuperated from: http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx

    According to the APA dictionary of psychology, gender is defined as the following. 

    "Gender (n): the condition of being male, female, or neuter. In a human context, the distinction between gender and SEX reflects the usage of these terms: Sex usually refers to the biological aspects of maleness or femaleness, whereas gender implies the psychological, behavioral, social, and cultural aspects of being male or female (i.e., masculinity or femininity.)"

    Gender is also not always a choice. There are a lot of psychological factors that are involved in people whose gender doesn't match their sex. In a lot of the cases it has to do with their parent's behaviors towards them and sometimes there are hormones involved. 
    According to your definitions of gender, lesbians are the social and cultural side of gender-hood because of rights and movements in their name. Gender and Sexual Orientation can mean one and the same in some instances.

    2. You proved my point, sex is biological, in definition 2, and psychological and behavioral patterns (gender) are ALWAYS a choice. I could choose to make love with my blankets, but that does not change my biological status as a male. I can choose to wash my blanket, but I am still a male. I could make a turban out of my blanket, but I am still a male. I have a lot of choices with the blanket, but there is no changing that I am a male. If I repeat the events multiple times, it would classify as behavioral, but I would still be a male. Gender is always a choice, because while we can not change our biological nature, we sure as heck can change the way we perceive ourselves, and our perception of ourselves is in every way a choice. 

    3. Distinguish between gender and sex, gender will never match sex because they mean two different things, and there are no arguments for saying gender doesn't match sex because sex can't change, gender is the one that changes because we perceive ourselves differently. Gender never matches sex because we come up with obscure reasons for how we feel, I feel like a woman, therefore I must be, that doesn't match with my manhood. No duh, you're still a man, even if you feel like a woman. Gender changes, but sex does not. 

    4. Hence, feelings toward gender can be altered by parental behavior and external factors, sex can not. Also, there are no hormones involved with gender or gayness. We are born with DNA, but we are not programmed to act a certain way from birth, we choose to be that way once we are older because we can make a choice, the choice is not set before us before we even consider it. 
    SilverishGoldNovaEmeryPearson
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


  • WilliamSchulzWilliamSchulz 236 Pts
    edited March 1
    For that reason, there should only be the 2 sex classification because that will never change, but our feelings about gender will flip on a dime, and are often misconstrued. Feel free to respond with any disagreements, this is only a starting point.
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


  • PoguePogue 489 Pts
    @WilliamSchulz

    The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the fetus are:

    • X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner’s )
    • XX – Most common form of female
    • XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
    • XY – Most common form of male
    • XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people
    • XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births
    Sex is on a spectrum. It is not just two settings. 
    JustIgnoreMeSlanderIsNotDebate1995TheShaunEmeryPearson
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @Pogue ;

    Can I get a source for this information? In the meantime, these instances are first and foremost very rare, and two if a person was born, say with two genitalia or genitalia growing later in life, it wouldn't change their sex. If anything, if this was to occur, then the mother and father could choose the sex, but this is a unlikely circumstance which morality is willing to accept to over arch the solidifying idea that there are two sexes, some deformities allow special circumstantial choices to be made regarding sex, but that wasn't a cause of human-made consciousness from the affected individual itself. 
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


  • edited March 1
    Pogue said:
    @WilliamSchulz

    The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the fetus are:

    • X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner’s )
    • XX – Most common form of female
    • XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
    • XY – Most common form of male
    • XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people
    • XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births
    Sex is on a spectrum. It is not just two settings. 
    I'm a bit confused, are you trying to argue there are more than 2 sexes, and this can be proven by extremely rare abnormalities, or no? Again, your gender is determined by chromosomes, and if you have a Y chromosone then you are a biological male. If not, you are a biological female.
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • @CYDdharta Re: "Is that the issue in the vast majority gender question cases?"
    @SilverishGoldNova Re: "rare abnormalities"
    @WilliamSchulz Re: "very rare"

    Is rarity an argument against the existence of something? Isn't it the opposite?
    EmeryPearson
  • No, if you read the last part of my argument, I mention that if such instances were to occur, than the parents could choose the sex o the child, but since it is rare, it is something that morality will accept as a means to encompass the two sex world.
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 537 Pts
    @CYDdharta Re: "Is that the issue in the vast majority gender question cases?"
    @SilverishGoldNova Re: "rare abnormalities"
    @WilliamSchulz Re: "very rare"

    Is rarity an argument against the existence of something? Isn't it the opposite?
    The question is, is it something that we need to make special accommodations for?
    JustIgnoreMe
  • @CYDdharta Re: "Is that the issue in the vast majority gender question cases?"
    @SilverishGoldNova Re: "rare abnormalities"
    @WilliamSchulz Re: "very rare"

    Is rarity an argument against the existence of something? Isn't it the opposite?
    Again for the third time if you have a Y chromosome you are male if not then you are a female
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • GooberryGooberry 318 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    @CYDdharta Re: "Is that the issue in the vast majority gender question cases?"
    @SilverishGoldNova Re: "rare abnormalities"
    @WilliamSchulz Re: "very rare"

    Is rarity an argument against the existence of something? Isn't it the opposite?
    The question is, is it something that we need to make special accommodations for?
    Last time I checked, using the bathroom wasn’t a  “special accommodation”.
    EmeryPearson
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 537 Pts
    Gooberry said:
    Last time I checked, using the bathroom wasn’t a  “special accommodation”.
    It's a special accommodation if you have to make a special bathroom for it.
    EmeryPearson
  • GooberryGooberry 318 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Gooberry said:
    Last time I checked, using the bathroom wasn’t a  “special accommodation”.
    It's a special accommodation if you have to make a special bathroom for it.
    Who’s proposing legally requiring a special bathroom for people?
    EmeryPearson
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 537 Pts
    Gooberry said:
    Who’s proposing legally requiring a special bathroom for people?
    Who specified a legal requirement?
    EmeryPearson
  • @SilverishGoldNova ;

    So, even if you've never had a penis, but you do have a vagina, breasts, fallopian tubes, a uterus, a cervix and ovaries - you are a male?
    https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/a-new-female-case-with-47xxy-karyotype-and-sry-2167-0250-1000157.php?aid=71945
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2680992/


    Pardon the pun, but Y ?
    PogueEmeryPearson
  • CYDdharta said:
    @CYDdharta Re: "Is that the issue in the vast majority gender question cases?"
    @SilverishGoldNova Re: "rare abnormalities"
    @WilliamSchulz Re: "very rare"

    Is rarity an argument against the existence of something? Isn't it the opposite?
    The question is, is it something that we need to make special accommodations for?

    If you look, you will find that the question is actually: "Are there only two genders/sexes?"
    EmeryPearson
  • CYDdharta said:
    @CYDdharta Re: "Is that the issue in the vast majority gender question cases?"
    @SilverishGoldNova Re: "rare abnormalities"
    @WilliamSchulz Re: "very rare"

    Is rarity an argument against the existence of something? Isn't it the opposite?
    The question is, is it something that we need to make special accommodations for?

    If you look, you will find that the question is actually: "Are there only two genders/sexes?"
    Precisely, people that I know think that sex and gender are the same thing, but they are different from each other. If such a disagreement were to occur, there would at least be some unification point here.
    SlanderIsNotDebate1995EmeryPearson
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


  • GooberryGooberry 318 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Gooberry said:
    Who’s proposing legally requiring a special bathroom for people?
    Who specified a legal requirement?
    You said “if you have to make a special bathroom for it.”

    If there is no real way I can see to make someone “have to” make a special bathroom with having a legal requirement for it.

    So that would be you.
    EmeryPearson
  • @WilliamSchulz ;

    The basic definition of gender/sex is the same. Male or female.

    The recognised physiological norm of gender/sex, is that we are either male or female.

    That is not to say that all people are born displaying the recognised physiological characteristics of gender/sex.

    As we know. Many abnormal physiological characteristics can arise during foetal development, not just characteristics relating to gender/sex.

    Ultimately gender/sex is about the procreation of the species. In simple terms a female produces an egg and a male fertilises that egg.

    Excepting issues arising due to appreciable physiological abnormalities All other gender/sex issues are socio-conceptually derived.

    That is to say. How and who we choose to form relationships with and how we choose to derive gratification from sexual interaction with other people, are not actually relevant to the reality of gender/sex.


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 537 Pts
    Gooberry said:
    You said “if you have to make a special bathroom for it.”

    If there is no real way I can see to make someone “have to” make a special bathroom with having a legal requirement for it.

    So that would be you.
    If your local school system decides they need to make special accommodations, such separate bathrooms, there may be no legal requirement but you'll be paying for it just the same. 
  • GooberryGooberry 318 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Gooberry said:
    You said “if you have to make a special bathroom for it.”

    If there is no real way I can see to make someone “have to” make a special bathroom with having a legal requirement for it.

    So that would be you.
    If your local school system decides they need to make special accommodations, such separate bathrooms, there may be no legal requirement but you'll be paying for it just the same. 
    But they don’t have to do it
    EmeryPearson
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 537 Pts
    Gooberry said:
    But they don’t have to do it
    But you'll still have to pay for it.
    EmeryPearson
  • GooberryGooberry 318 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Gooberry said:
    But they don’t have to do it
    But you'll still have to pay for it.
    So you’re agreeing that there is no law or any encorcement that requires schools to make
    special accommodations like build special bathrooms?
    EmeryPearson
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 537 Pts
    Gooberry said:
    So you’re agreeing that there is no law or any encorcement that requires schools to make
    special accommodations like build special bathrooms?
    It's a distinction without a difference.
    EmeryPearson
  • GooberryGooberry 318 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Gooberry said:
    So you’re agreeing that there is no law or any encorcement that requires schools to make
    special accommodations like build special bathrooms?
    It's a distinction without a difference.
    Oh there is a big difference. It seems you’re trying to oversell your position, by making it sound like lots of things are being forced on people, that making special accommodations are required in order to accept things. In reality that’s not actually the case at all.

    The big difference, is that in one case broad accommodations are forced to be made, as you implied. In the other case there are no broad accommodations that are forced to be made.

    The problem with transgender bathrooms or individuals is mostly conservative hysteria of their own making without any real or genuine concern behind it.
    EmeryPearson
  • There are more than 2 sexes because there are more than 2 combinations of sex chromosomes. I believe that sex = gender.
    EmeryPearson
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 537 Pts
    Gooberry said:
    Oh there is a big difference. It seems you’re trying to oversell your position, by making it sound like lots of things are being forced on people, that making special accommodations are required in order to accept things. In reality that’s not actually the case at all.

    The big difference, is that in one case broad accommodations are forced to be made, as you implied. In the other case there are no broad accommodations that are forced to be made.

    The problem with transgender bathrooms or individuals is mostly conservative hysteria of their own making without any real or genuine concern behind it.
    No, you are incorrect.  In both cases, broad accommodations are being forced to be made.  The only difference is in which government entity is doing the forcing.  That's, at best, a minor distinction. 
    EmeryPearson
  • GooberryGooberry 318 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Gooberry said:
    Oh there is a big difference. It seems you’re trying to oversell your position, by making it sound like lots of things are being forced on people, that making special accommodations are required in order to accept things. In reality that’s not actually the case at all.

    The big difference, is that in one case broad accommodations are forced to be made, as you implied. In the other case there are no broad accommodations that are forced to be made.

    The problem with transgender bathrooms or individuals is mostly conservative hysteria of their own making without any real or genuine concern behind it.
    No, you are incorrect.  In both cases, broad accommodations are being forced to be made.  The only difference is in which government entity is doing the forcing.  That's, at best, a minor distinction. 
    I’m sorry you are, again, attempting to argue black is white.

    There’s no legal requirement for any special accomodations at all (other than being able to actually use the bathroom), like I said.

    In reality, also, the biggest expense / change that the schools are actually faced with that have opted to have a transgender bathroom, is simply the cost associated with changing the sign on a disabled toilet.

    The Idea that there are broad, significant and weighty accomodations being made; is simply manufactured nonsense.

    As I said; in reality the simplest accomodation you can make, is simply to let people use the bathroom, without using conservative faux outrage to try and use the government as a
    tool to dictate where people should pee because you don’t like the people in question.

    That really should be the end of it.
     
    BaconToesEmeryPearson
  • CYDdharta said:
    @CYDdharta Re: "Is that the issue in the vast majority gender question cases?"
    @SilverishGoldNova Re: "rare abnormalities"
    @WilliamSchulz Re: "very rare"

    Is rarity an argument against the existence of something? Isn't it the opposite?
    The question is, is it something that we need to make special accommodations for?

    I think if you look, you will find that the question is actually: "Are there only two genders/sexes?"
    BaconToesEmeryPearson
  • CYDdharta said:
    @CYDdharta Re: "Is that the issue in the vast majority gender question cases?"
    @SilverishGoldNova Re: "rare abnormalities"
    @WilliamSchulz Re: "very rare"

    Is rarity an argument against the existence of something? Isn't it the opposite?
    The question is, is it something that we need to make special accommodations for?

    I think if you look, you will find that the question is actually: "Are there only two genders/sexes?"
    BaconToesEmeryPearson
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 537 Pts
    Gooberry said:
    I’m sorry you are, again, attempting to argue black is white.

    There’s no legal requirement for any special accomodations at all (other than being able to actually use the bathroom), like I said.

    In reality, also, the biggest expense / change that the schools are actually faced with that have opted to have a transgender bathroom, is simply the cost associated with changing the sign on a disabled toilet.

    The Idea that there are broad, significant and weighty accomodations being made; is simply manufactured nonsense.

    As I said; in reality the simplest accomodation you can make, is simply to let people use the bathroom, without using conservative faux outrage to try and use the government as a
    tool to dictate where people should pee because you don’t like the people in question.

    That really should be the end of it.
     
    No, it wasn't conservative outrage that caused this to be an issue.  It was never an issue before, in fact, it wasn't an issue at all until liberals pushed it.  Our country was established well over 200 years ago.  There have always been people with chromosomal abnormalities, but it was never a problem before, not until liberals made it a problem.
    EmeryPearson
  • CYDdharta said:
    Gooberry said:
    I’m sorry you are, again, attempting to argue black is white.

    There’s no legal requirement for any special accomodations at all (other than being able to actually use the bathroom), like I said.

    In reality, also, the biggest expense / change that the schools are actually faced with that have opted to have a transgender bathroom, is simply the cost associated with changing the sign on a disabled toilet.

    The Idea that there are broad, significant and weighty accomodations being made; is simply manufactured nonsense.

    As I said; in reality the simplest accomodation you can make, is simply to let people use the bathroom, without using conservative faux outrage to try and use the government as a
    tool to dictate where people should pee because you don’t like the people in question.

    That really should be the end of it.
     
    No, it wasn't conservative outrage that caused this to be an issue.  It was never an issue before, in fact, it wasn't an issue at all until liberals pushed it.  Our country was established well over 200 years ago.  There have always been people with chromosomal abnormalities, but it was never a problem before, not until liberals made it a problem.
    Politics aside, I think that there are some moral crisis that would be occurring in transgender bathrooms. For instance, whose to say that men and women who go into the bathrooms aren't going to make out or show sexual activity. It is a time bomb waiting to explode, as men and women's desires are supposed to be founded in love, it does not make sense to place them in a situation where genitalia are exposed in front of the opposite sex. I feel as if some people who aren't transgender are going to abuse the rule and seek pleasure where pleasure is to be wrongly had, and that causes moral damage beyond the political controversy. 
    EmeryPearson
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


  • @WilliamSchulz homosexuals already get to completely unfairly do this on the low meanwhile any non homosexual can't interact with the other gender in the same way on the low.

    It's already unfair, by allowing everyone to equally break the rule it becomes fair again.
    EmeryPearson
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • @WilliamSchulz homosexuals already get to completely unfairly do this on the low meanwhile any non homosexual can't interact with the other gender in the same way on the low.

    It's already unfair, by allowing everyone to equally break the rule it becomes fair again.
    I agree with this, I think that the issue will only worsen if there is a law passed that permits this. 
    EmeryPearson
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


  • someone234someone234 506 Pts
    edited March 5
    @WilliamSchulz if it's consensual why is it wrong or are you referring to trans women overpowering cis women?
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
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