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How are/did the debateisland.com first tournament go?
in Global

By PoguePogue 507 Pts
How are/did the debateisland.com first tournament go? 
I think they went decently. There were a few mess ups like when both sides were for on the stricter immigration debate.
aarong
  1. How did they go

    13 votes
    1. Great
      23.08%
    2. Good
      15.38%
    3. Well
        7.69%
    4. Decent
      15.38%
    5. Bad
        7.69%
    6. Really bad
        7.69%
    7. Terrible
      23.08%
I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

“We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

I friended myself! 



Debra AI Prediction

Predicted To Win
Predicted 2nd Place
11%
Margin

Details +



Arguments

  • I really enjoyed it.  I made it to the semifinals and enjoyed a great debate with @someone234 who did a great job.  I wish agsr and someone234 best of luck in the finals. I will be voting.
  • I’d say decent. There were some substantive debates, and there’s value in having them in this format. I think it’s certainly worthwhile. In terms of problems that were outside of the direct control of the administrators, there were several forfeits, which short circuit the tournament. Other issues should be cautionary tales. Several of the posted votes show little or nothing in the way of analysis of the debates, but have as much weight as more substantive votes - tournament debates, in particular, should be held to a higher standard of voting than this. The debate topics were often inherently biased against one side, so I think the topic selection needs to be more careful. I’m also critical of the very limited time for the final debate, which essentially requires that both debaters be online and ready to post for several hours. I know that that factor was the main reason I didn’t consider joining.
    Poguesomeone234SlanderIsNotDebate1995Erfisflat
  • agsragsr 833 Pts
    @whiteflame, these are all fair points.  I am in the finals (scheduled for Sunday) and it was exciting to get this far.  I actually prefer the 1 hour per round in the finals to allow more focus.
    As far as voting, I have mixed thoughts on that.  On one hand, I agree that stricter voting standards for tournaments is helpful.  However, if you set very prescriptive standard than there will be endless objection about removing votes.  I can see it both ways.
    Totally agree on topic selection point.
    I think it was the first tournament hosted and next tournament should take into consideration some of these improvements .  

    Live Long and Prosper
  • AmpersandAmpersand 419 Pts
    Poorly. My debate was restarted twice.

    First time it had been created with the wrong number of rounds (as had someone else's which I flagged at the same time).

    The second time the topic was something like "I believe there should be no censorship of media" and I had to argue why there should be no censorship. I felt this was incredibly heavily biased against me as all my opponent had to do is provide one example of censorship that was acceptable - like "we shouldn't let people stream child pornography" or "we shouldn't let terrorists announce state secrets on TV" - and I had lost while to win i would have to successfully argue against every single form of censorship.

    To my mind this is a poor topic as one person is being forced to defend very extreme positions and the burden of proof is very different for each side e.g. because the topic is against any and all censorship I would have had to win every point of my debate and argue against every form of censorship, my opponent would only have to win one point in their argument and prove a valid argument for one example of censorship even if I won and rebut the other 99 points they made. The topic should have been something like "This house believes that on the whole there should be less censorship" which allows both sides to argue moderate positions and which doesn't bias the requirements for victory against one side or the other.

    At that point the topic got deleted remade again but as far as I was concerned I'd already conceded and I'd lost faith that the following rounds wouldn't have similar issues.
    BaconToesSlanderIsNotDebate1995
  • I enjoy participating in debatisland.com. But have a very limited amount of free time in which to do so.

    I managed to read through one tournament debate, voted objectively and provided a concise and honest analysis.

    Having to provide a more in depth and protracted analysis would deter me from voting on future tournaments.
  • Final is Sunday 1pm est
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • I enjoy participating in debatisland.com. But have a very limited amount of free time in which to do so.

    I managed to read through one tournament debate, voted objectively and provided a concise and honest analysis.

    Having to provide a more in depth and protracted analysis would deter me from voting on future tournaments.
    Your vote against me was a joke. Don't pretend to be the one we should feel sorry for here.

    Stop voting on my debates with nonsense reasons.

    The only person who voted worse than you in that debate was Cydharta because Cydharta votes based solely on her preformed opinion regarding the topic.
    CYDdhartaFascism
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • @whiteflame You'd be someone I'd genuinely be worried to go up against. ;)
    Pogue
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • @someone234 I’d be game  B)
    someone234
  • @someone234 ;

    Don't be so childish.

    If you can't handle constructive criticism, then you are a poor debater. 
    BaconToessomeone234SlanderIsNotDebate1995Fascism
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @Fredsnephew
    To be honest, you voted in his debate and said that there was too much information and you want it to be more personal. How do you have too much information in a debate? 
    someone234
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @Fredsnephew you gave conduct to the other side as well but then gave sources to me lol
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 647 Pts

    Your vote against me was a joke. Don't pretend to be the one we should feel sorry for here.

    Stop voting on my debates with nonsense reasons.

    The only person who voted worse than you in that debate was Cydharta because Cydharta votes based solely on her preformed opinion regarding the topic.
    You make too many errors of fact and assumptions, which goes a long way towards explaining your sub-par debate performance.  Even in a single line of this 3 line diatribe, you've misspelled my screen name and gotten my gender wrong.
    SlanderIsNotDebate1995Erfisflat
  • @CYDdharta so you're a guy, Cydharta is the correct spelling.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 647 Pts
    @CYDdharta so you're a guy, Cydharta is the correct spelling.
    Then to whom are you referring?  There is no member named Cydharta.  No Cydharta rated your debate.
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @someone234
    Their usernames is CYDdharta not CYDharta. 
    CYDdharta said:

    Your vote against me was a joke. Don't pretend to be the one we should feel sorry for here.

    Stop voting on my debates with nonsense reasons.

    The only person who voted worse than you in that debate was Cydharta because Cydharta votes based solely on her preformed opinion regarding the topic.
    You make too many errors of fact and assumptions, which goes a long way towards explaining your sub-par debate performance.  Even in a single line of this 3 line diatribe, you've misspelled my screen name and gotten my gender wrong.
    So what if he got your gender wrong. It was not disclosed before. Also from what I have seen from you voting, you vote from your opinion. My tournaments debate, you gave me 5 points and him 9 answer said it isn’t hard to argue that it is problem. Even though the international community thinks it is a problem. Then on his next debate you gave him very little points. Now I do not know your opinion but from what I have seen from your other debates, you have a conservative bias. Please explain the facts and assumptions. 

    Also, why was his previous statement about you being a bad voter, you marked it as a fallacy when it was not.

    I am doing this from my 5s so if you need me to retype, I will do so.

     
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    edited March 3
    @CYDdharta
    Also, on my tournament debate, it was actually harder for SomeOne to debate
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @CYDdharta always with the details and never with the big picture.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • agsragsr 833 Pts
    @someone234, I'd like to see you vs @CYDdharta in a formal 1-1 debate. I suggest the following topic
    The United States federal government should adopt a carbon tax.
    You: pro, Cyddharta con.
    I promiss to provide a comprehensive and unbiased vote 
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 647 Pts
    Pogue said:
    @someone234
    Their usernames is CYDdharta not CYDharta.

    So what if he got your gender wrong. It was not disclosed before. Also from what I have seen from you voting, you vote from your opinion. My tournaments debate, you gave me 5 points and him 9 answer said it isn’t hard to argue that it is problem. Even though the international community thinks it is a problem. Then on his next debate you gave him very little points. Now I do not know your opinion but from what I have seen from your other debates, you have a conservative bias. Please explain the facts and assumptions. 

    Also, why was his previous statement about you being a bad voter, you marked it as a fallacy when it was not.

    I am doing this from my 5s so if you need me to retype, I will do so.

     
    Yeah, it's a fallacy.  It was based on incorrect and inaccurate assumptions, as we've come to expect.  And I do not know your opinion but from what I have seen from your other debates, you have a liberal bias.

    Actually, your debate was 7 to 5.  You did nothing to persuade me, just regurgitated the same arguments and charts you used before on this forum with very little new information.  I didn't find it persuasive the first time I saw it, I certainly didn't find it persuasive the next time you posted it (or the next).  "Global warming" has conveniently defined itself in such a way that it cannot be disproven, yet its still not accurate enough to use for predictions.  It also doesn't help that you rely, as you have here, on an Appeal to Authority fallacy.

    As for the stricter enforcement debate; as I stated, Someone234 starts out attacking the questions posed in the original Vox article, then uses Vox multiple times in his replies.  That makes no sense, thus 0 points for sources.  And I didn't find his arguments persuasive in the least, thus 0 points there as well.
    BaconToes
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @agsr
    Wouldn't that just lead to a debate on human-caused global warming/climate change (since carbon raises ph levels)
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @agsr as in carbon footprint? ok I will do it but I want cyddharta to agree first
    agsr
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • agsragsr 833 Pts
    @someone234, greart. Yes, carbon footprint.  Should be fun to watch and judge.
    @CYDdharta, are you game?
    Live Long and Prosper
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 647 Pts
    agsr said:
    @someone234, greart. Yes, carbon footprint.  Should be fun to watch and judge.
    @CYDdharta, are you game?
    I don't think anyone would argue that, all other things being equal, a larger carbon footprint is better than a smaller one.
  • @agsr @CYDdharta
    I will take some time to properly format the first argument. It's 48 hour rounds to give both of us ample time to come up with rebuttals etc.

    I want CYDdharta to agree with the title's wording first though.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • @Pogue ;

    Very easily.

    Swamping a debate with to much unnecessary referencing may seem a clever thing to do and is also a very easy thing to do, considering the amount of freely available information out there on the web.


    Nonetheless, how I chose to vote was purely objective and honestly based on my personal appreciation of the given material.


    If a debater cannot accept being voted against, then quite frankly they should not take part in a debate.

    Inevitably, this sort of immature conduct will bring in to doubt, the credibility of tournament debating.

    BaconToes
  • someone234someone234 605 Pts
    edited March 3
    @Fredsnephew voting should be something you get moderated for.

    Your vote was nonsense and you should have voting privileges removed for it.
    SlanderIsNotDebate1995
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • @someone234 ;

    I honestly don't care whether I'm permitted to vote or not.

    With such an immature approach to debating as yours. Why would I bother to vote.


    SlanderIsNotDebate1995
  • @Fredsnephew I genuinely don't want you to vote on my debate(s) until your reason for voting is improved beyond what it currently is by a significant amount.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • @someone234 ;

    You must have been tired when you wrote this, because it does not make grammatical sense.

    I think what you are trying to say is. You do not want me to vote on your debates, unless I vote in favour of you.

    Because you obviously believe that you are superior to everyone else who participates on debateisland.com.

    You also, clearly believe that you have an intellect that exceeds the necessity for scrutiny.
  • @Fredsnephew It did make grammatical sense.

    If I had put a comma between any 'is' it would have been incorrect. :)
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • @Fredsnephew You don't know what I've been through in life or how many people I've helped.

    I've used my ability to reason and debate to stop people committing suicide over instant messaging on sites you don't even know exist.

    I am a hero of the finest order and a villain to the villains when I need to be as well.

    Life is a journey and my ride has indeed led me to believe I'm superior to many. I'm a narcissist but a damn good one.
    agsrBaconToes
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Yeah, it's a fallacy.  It was based on incorrect and inaccurate assumptions, as we've come to expect. 
    No, we are debating and so we use the debating/logic definition of it. We do not use the noun version! What fallacy is it?
    • 1. a failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid.
    • 2. faulty reasoning; misleading or unsound argument.
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 647 Pts
    Pogue said:
    No, we are debating and so we use the debating/logic definition of it. We do not use the noun version! What fallacy is it?
    • 1. a failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid.
    • 2. faulty reasoning; misleading or unsound argument.
    Hasty assumptions, particularly incorrect ones, is committing the Divine Fallacy.  Someone234 incorrectly assumes my scoring of his debate performance was not based on what he posted, when, in fact, it was completely based on what he posted.
  • someone234someone234 605 Pts
    edited March 5
    I win
    CYDdharta
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • agsragsr 833 Pts
    I was hoping to win, but unfortunately someone234 did a better job in the final round. I accept my defeat and congratulate @someone234. I have to say that @whiteflame  did a really nice job providing vote RFDs.  I even "almost" didn't mind that he voted against me :)
    That was a fun initial tournament and I think it went well overall.  There are a few things to consider for the next one - I will be signing up again.
    1) 1 hour per round is too much of a commitment. Either 15 min blitz of 12 hours per round works better.
    2) need to have better selection of topics that aren't easier for one side to win.  Ideally, it would also be good to have opponents actually agree on topics/sides from a few choices.
    3) there should be a discussion thread created that goes along with the tournament- like this one, where moderator and users can post updates and discuss issues.
    4) There should be more strict voting rules articulated for the tournament. We had too much drama with some debate about votes.  I don't think we need to demand detailed  whiteflame-quality explanations, but at the same time some minimum explanation should be required.
    someone234whiteflameBaconToes
    Live Long and Prosper
  • agsr said:

    2) need to have better selection of topics that aren't easier for one side to win.  Ideally, it would also be good to have opponents actually agree on topics/sides from a few choices.

    4) There should be more strict voting rules articulated for the tournament. We had too much drama with some debate about votes.  I don't think we need to demand detailed  whiteflame-quality explanations, but at the same time some minimum explanation should be required.
    The someone234 establishment endorses these 2 points wholeheartedly and thanks agsr for daring to compete with it in such a fast and brutal contest of wits.

    Good game indeed.
    BaconToes
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 647 Pts
    edited March 6
    agsr said:
    3) there should be a discussion thread created that goes along with the tournament- like this one, where moderator and users can post updates and discuss issues.
    This is the major shortcoming of formal debates.  I don't bother with them much because I can't comment unless I'm one of the debaters.  If I have a point that I think a side should make, I can't do anything with it except in the scoring comments.


  • @CYDdharta

    do you also support 2 and 4?
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 647 Pts
    @CYDdharta

    do you also support 2 and 4?
    2?  It is what it is.  If you want to make a topic that is one-sided, so be it; no one is forced to debate it.

    4? It wouldn't matter.  Some posters here won't be satisfied with any explanations if it goes against their beliefs.
  • @CYDdharta

    Lol, you are a funny one. They are obviously forced to debate it, this entire tournament we were forced to debate topics we didn't have any say in.

    As for your 'any reason for voting can be considered flawed' counter to point 4, this is childish.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 647 Pts
    @CYDdharta

    Lol, you are a funny one. They are obviously forced to debate it, this entire tournament we were forced to debate topics we didn't have any say in.

    As for your 'any reason for voting can be considered flawed' counter to point 4, this is childish.
    Who forced you to take part in a debate?
  • Well done someone234.

    Given the limitations of the debate format. I think you and your opponent did well in putting together all that information.


    I can assure you that my appreciation of the final debate was totally genuine.
    someone234
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