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Is the Earth flat?
in Science

By SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 1007 Pts edited March 4
Since the other debate was closed, perhaps we should give this debate another try.

Also Erf, if you could try not gaslighting that would be great.

Note: I don't believe the Earth is flat, tho I am a former flat Earther.
ErfisflatPogue
  1. Is the Earth flat?

    16 votes
    1. Yes
        6.25%
    2. No
      93.75%
Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
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Arguments

  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    I guess I will start and since you guys did not debunk these yet I will repost them.
    There are so many more ways you can prove to yourself the Earth is round. You can see more things the higher up you are. Long suspension bridges’ towers slope slightly away from one another to account for the curvature of the Earth. Every other planet is a spinning sphere. Satellites exist (as proven by the existence of your iPhone), and obey rules that only work if they’re orbiting around Earth. We’ve taken many, many pictures of Earth. Buy a weather balloon and strap a camera to it.

    Satellites have to exist for the internet to work. The TV would not be here without relativity which involves gravity. The ISS exists because you can clearly see it if it goes above your location. You can easily watch the youtube live stream from the ISS. 

    Hurricanes, cyclones, and typhoons are all the same thing: Spinning masses of air sucking moisture from the ocean, dumping it back on us and destroying things in their path. A hurricane is just a giant wind drain—a low-pressure center with winds flushing into it. The wind always blows counter-clockwise inwards in Northern Hemisphere hurricanes—check out this picture of Hurricane Katrina and the United States. Notice the direction the wind is traveling with a compass, depending on where the Hurricane is.

    However, in the Southern Hemisphere, the wind travels the opposite direction. Here’s a picture of Hurricane Catarina, a very rare Southern Hemisphere Atlantic Hurricane:

    Notice that Catarina is very clearly spinning in the opposite direction. That’s because of the Coriolis effect—the wind changes direction as the planet spins. If the Earth wasn’t spinning, the wind should blow straight into the middle of the hurricane from all directions. But the Earth spins faster at the equator than at the poles, because our planet’s midsection has the furthest distance to travel with each rotation. Winds traveling northwards or southwards curve as they travel from slower spinning to faster spinning regions of the planet. The wind carves the opposite direction based on whether you are above or below the equator since the Earth’s rotation gets slower on alternate sides. 

    You can recreate this by spinning a basketball on your finger, and moving a marker from the bottom up or the top down—notice what the line looks like above and below the middle of the ball.

    Okay, let’s try to explain all that with a flat Earth. If Earth was a giant spinning plate with the North Pole at its center, all hurricanes should spin in the same direction and should have a much more spiral shape the further south (i.e., away from the center) you head. You could maybe slow down the spins further from the center of the spinning plate, but then you should see the continents ripping apart from the different speeds. It just doesn’t make any sense.

    Look at this, a guy sent a camera to space and the Earth is round:  https://www.geek.com/geek-cetera/homemade-spacecraft-reaches-100000-ft-films-the-whole-way-1287792/.

    The video proves why the Coriolis effect is real and is dictated by hemisphere.  The important parts are from 1:44-5:35. It has a controlled experiment. In the end, it explains why there is a difference between hemispheres. It works because it does. To understand this, think of a pool at the geographic poles. It is stationary relative to Earth, but every sidereal day, it is actually completing one full rotation. The part further away from the pole and closer to the equator move faster because it has to complete a larger movement in the same amount of time (that is why rockets are launched closer to the equator. When the plug is pulled (part of the experiment) everything is moving toward the drain in the middle. The far side is faster so it gets ahead while the slower part is too slow so it lags behind. 

    Edit: The video was a picture by accident because I copied and pasted my arguments. Here is the video: 

    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    When have I ever gaslighted you? Like in the 1v1 debate where you posted a link to "flatearthinsanity.com"
    sounds like you are either a hypocrite or are ignorant of the meaning of the word.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    As it is now, debating 3-4 people, and addressing all of goobers red herrings is beyond my time limits here. I apologize for leaving you here to defend the flat earth by yourself.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • edited March 4
    Erfisflat said:
    When have I ever gaslighted you? Like in the 1v1 debate where you posted a link to "flatearthinsanity.com"
    sounds like you are either a hypocrite or are ignorant of the meaning of the word.
    Ok, let's clarify since you seem very confused

    1. Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to make an individual or group question their own perception or sanity with denial, lying, and misdirection. Having a blog with the name "Insanity" is not even close.
    2. You never gaslighted me, Just Goober and Pouge.  

    K Erik? 
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    As it is now, debating 3-4 people, and addressing all of goobers red herrings is beyond my time limits here. I apologize for leaving you here to defend the flat earth by yourself.
    Just pick one and explain why it’s a red herring.


  • edited March 4
    @Erfisflat Your complete lack of credibility, and the arguments of Pouge and Goober are why I no longer believe in the flat Earth. You cannot expect to convert me back by ridiculing people for disagreeing with you. That is not debate.

    Pouge asked me to PM you with this, and you said you had refuted it already, and that he was simply denying your arguments. Can you post the full rebuttal then?

    Ok so I saw your https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat and then read this "the earth is not a ball that is 25,000 miles in circumference. For this to be true, all bodies of water should be part of an arc with measurable curvature. From any point, there should exist a declination of eight inches in the first mile and the mileage would be squared thereafter. Meaning two miles is 2X2=4X8=32" of curvature. At the miles, 3X3=9X8=72" of curvature. Meaning at a mere 3 miles from sea level at one point to a point sea level there, a 6 foot tall of water would be blocking the view." Note, I made grammatical fixes. So I just wanted to debunk this. You probably blocked me so I will ask SGN, qip, or TTT to send it. Also, beautiful arithmetic when you said 2x2=4x8=32. 
    The debunk: Say you have a sphere with an embedded Cartesian coordinate system like this
    Where the horizontal dashed line is the distance that Flat Earthers end up plugging into their equations to find the "drop", which is the vertical black line
    When you use this formulation, you can find an infinite series that gives you the answer:
    What you end up finding is that, to second-order approximation, the "drop" scales with the square of the horizontal displacement. 
    And the constant of proportionality is approximately -8 in/mi^2. There are an infinite number of higher order terms that you can neglect, but that will result in an error known as the Lagrange Error if you try to use the approximation where it doesn't apply. You can neglect higher order terms if you assume that the horizontal displacement is really small. And you find that, by only using that second-order approximation, your error already reaches a tenth of an inch once you go beyond 30 miles or so because you're essentially approximating the curvature as being parabolic when in reality it curves faster than that.
    The formula is actually an estimation of the drop from the horizontal plane which must be established prior to that calculation. It doesn't account for observer height or the height of the object being observed.

    So it correctly gives you the vertical displacement for small enough distances (and Flat Earthers usually do this properly), but the thing they fail to do is then account for the height of the observer, the object being observed, and the angle at which said observer is looking at the horizon, etc. Which they incorrectly seem to think is always perpendicular. Even though on a globe everything observed is "down" from the observer. If I feel like it I will post/send more. 
    EmeryPearson
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    When have I ever gaslighted you? Like in the 1v1 debate where you posted a link to "flatearthinsanity.com"
    sounds like you are either a hypocrite or are ignorant of the meaning of the word.
    Gaslighting is when someone pretends as if something that is untrue is actually true for the purposes of trying to make others question there sanity.

    For example: you mostly hurl accusations of fallicies and make no attempt to justify why you think that; we mostly outline and detail why what you say is untrue, and logically fallacious.

    However, as you don’t seem to be able to defend your claims, you attempt to gaslight: by acting as if we’re the ones engaged in fallacies (providing no justification for why); and that we are the ones providing no explanations.

    Its obvious and transparent to everyone that this is what you’re doing, that’s why as annoying as it can be to have someone enter a thread and argue black is white; it makes it evident to every reader as to your credibility.
    Erfisflat
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    I feel like posting more evidence so I will. I will debunk the spotlight sun idea. Now there are other ways to disprove it but these are the easiest to do. I will use the flat model for this and say the sun goes above the Earth. 

    We know the angular velocity of the sun because it must complete one circuit of the flat Earth in 1 day. At the equinoxes, when overhead the equator, approximately 10,000km (6,213.7mi) from the center of this planet. When here it must travel at 2,618km/h (1,626.75mi) factoring in distance at the equator and how long it must be. However, during the June solstice, it is on the Tropic of Cancer. On the flat Earth, it is 2,604km (1,618mi) closer to the center. Here it covers a smaller distance but at the same time so it must move slower. At about 1,936km/h (1203mi/h). On the December solstice, it is on the Tropic of Capricorn. This is 2,604km (1,618mi) south of the equator. The sun has to cover a larger distance in the same amount of time and so moves faster. This means it is about 3,300km/h (2050.5mi/h). 

    A question I have is what is moving the sun. What force is doing it? Back it up with evidence when you answer/respond. Also, the speed difference would be easy to detect. In one hour it should change position much differently. 

    This video explains everything in more depth and it also has more arguments to debunk a spotlight sun. 


    Also, I challenge you to create your own laws of physics and models. You (Erfisflat) would say there is not a complete model. If there is not, how do you know the flat model works. 
    someone234Alaires
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • the 3-D being is in the 3-D environment. What's underneath the flat world?

    LMAO, too funny this flat earth theory.
    Pogue
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    Now that the spotlight sun is debunked (even though it still did not create time zones), I will provide more evidence. 

    The time in New York, at the moment these words are written, is 12:00 pm. The sun is in the middle of the sky (though it’s hard to see with the current cloud coverage). In Beijing, it’s 12:00 am, midnight, and the sun is nowhere to be found. In Adelaide, Australia, it is 1:30 am. More than 13 hours ahead. There, the sunset is long gone—so much so, that the sun will soon rise up again at the beginning of a new day.

    time zones

    TIME ZONES

    We have time zones because when the Sun is illuminating one side of the spherical Earth, the other side is dark.

    This can only be explained if the world is round, and rotating around its own axis. At a certain point when the sun is shining on one part of the Earth, the opposite side is dark, and vice versa. That allows for time differences and time zones, specifically ones that are larger than 12 hours.

    Another point concerning time zones, the sun, and Earth: If the sun was a “spotlight” (very directionally located so that light only shines on a specific location) and the world was flat, we would see the sun even if it didn’t shine on top of us (as you can see in the drawing below). Similarly, you can see the light coming out of a spotlight on a stage in the theater, even though you—the crowd—are sitting in the dark. The only way to create two distinctly separate time zones, where there is complete darkness in one while there’s light in the other as if the world is spherical.

    debunking the sun as spotlight theory

    Flat Earth, the visibility of a spotlight in a darkened theater should debunk the "sun as spotlight" theory.

    Also, Neil Degrasse Tyson calculated that the sun sets about two minutes later on the top of the Burj Kalifa than the bottom. 

    someone234Erfisflat
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts
    You can calculate the numbers. 

    You would have thought that on a flat earth that distance to the sun would and how far the sun has moved around it’s orbit would be the determining factors.

    Let’s ignore the fact that using the flat earth model the sun doesn’t set in the right place (If you ignore the fact it shouldn’t be able to set at all).

    At the equinox at midday, on the flat earth, observations indicate the day and night is separate by a straight line going straight through the North Pole. Literally one half of the flat earth circle is night, the other half is day. And the sun is directly above the equatorZ

    This means it’s sunset for all longitudes 90 degrees away, and Sunrise for all longitudes -90 degrees away; perfectly reasonable on a globe: but inexplicable in a flat earth as each specific point along a latitude is a different distance away from the sun.

    Even worse as the sun is in one place: you can draw a circle around the sun, some of which is in the dark, some in the light: this circle represents locations at which the sun is at the same angle and the same linear distance for all observers in the circle.

    This is odd: as Erf implies we haven’t “accounted for refraction”; to explain sunset and yet when the sun is the same distance away, at the same
    real angle, going through the same quantities of the same atmosphere: it’s magically sunset for some, day for others, and night time for the rest.

    Flat earth geometry is impossible for this and many other reasons; it doesnt work, and is literally no way you can make it work.

    Flat earthers also know it doesnt work; which is why people like Erf won’t say where the sun is: or provide any details: the moment they do, its falsifiable, and will likely
    be falsified.


    someone234Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity.

    Goobers definition:
    "Gaslighting is when someone pretends as if something that is untrue is actually true for the purposes of trying to make others question there sanity."

    Gaslighting has nothing to do with what is truth or a lie. Some people believe that the earth is a ball, and some do not. This is called a debate, a disagreement, not gaslighting. If anyone questions their sanity, it's because they are presented evidence that goes against a core belief, and they suffer from cognitive dissonance.
    You guys can ramble on about the sun being a spotlight all you want, I think it's a ridiculous idea myself, so it's something we can agree on.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity.

    Goobers definition:
    "Gaslighting is when someone pretends as if something that is untrue is actually true for the purposes of trying to make others question there sanity."

    Gaslighting has nothing to do with what is truth or a lie. Some people believe that the earth is a ball, and some do not. This is called a debate, a disagreement, not gaslighting. If anyone questions their sanity, it's because they are presented evidence that goes against a core belief, and they suffer from cognitive dissonance.
    You guys can ramble on about the sun being a spotlight all you want, I think it's a ridiculous idea myself, so it's something we can agree on.
    My favourite part of this post is basically when you produce a definition of gaslighting that is pretty much exactly what I said: and then tell me my definition is wrong.

    You’re position has no merit. You can’t answer even a small fraction of the arguments against it. You are forced into defending your position using either lies and fallacies: as pointed out frequently.

    Most importantly, you are forced to argue as if you live in an alternate reality: where you’ve answered everything (you haven’t), you have evidence (you don’t), that you don’t assert most of what you say (you do), that we assert most or all of our arguments (we don’t), that we don’t have a valid point (we do), and basically trying to turn every argument on its head by arguing that we are guilty of all the flaws, errors, illogic and nonsense that your replies are riddled with.

    You argue this vehemently, to try and make your position and ours seem equal, through abuse of reality, because you don’t seem to be willing to address anything we actually raise.

    That is, by definition, gaslighting.


  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts

    Erfisflat said:
    Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity.

    Goobers definition:
    "Gaslighting is when someone pretends as if something that is untrue is actually true for the purposes of trying to make others question there sanity."

    Gaslighting has nothing to do with what is truth or a lie. Some people believe that the earth is a ball, and some do not. This is called a debate, a disagreement, not gaslighting. If anyone questions their sanity, it's because they are presented evidence that goes against a core belief, and they suffer from cognitive dissonance.
    You guys can ramble on about the sun being a spotlight all you want, I think it's a ridiculous idea myself, so it's something we can agree on.
    FYI this non-reply is exactly what I’m talking about.

    I just disproved BOTH the idea that the sun is rotating above the earth, the spotlight earth, that refraction is an explanation: AND pointed out how you use rhetoric and words to wriggle out of being disproved.

    You have no response to it, other than to sit there and pretend we were disproving something else.

    But great job accusing of us of “cognitive dissonance.”
  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts

    Erfisflat said:
    Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity.

    Goobers definition:
    "Gaslighting is when someone pretends as if something that is untrue is actually true for the purposes of trying to make others question there sanity."

    Gaslighting has nothing to do with what is truth or a lie. Some people believe that the earth is a ball, and some do not. This is called a debate, a disagreement, not gaslighting. If anyone questions their sanity, it's because they are presented evidence that goes against a core belief, and they suffer from cognitive dissonance.
    You guys can ramble on about the sun being a spotlight all you want, I think it's a ridiculous idea myself, so it's something we can agree on.
    FYI this non-reply is exactly what I’m talking about.

    I just disproved BOTH the idea that the sun is rotating above the earth, the spotlight earth, that refraction is an explanation: AND pointed out how you use rhetoric and words to wriggle out of being disproved.

    You have no response to it, other than to sit there and pretend we were disproving something else.

    But great job accusing of us of “cognitive dissonance.”
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @Erfisflat
    You do not try and debunk all the globe evidence and just send a video link. A 25-minute link at that. No explanation and summary of it at all. Here, have some evidence:



    and here is the backup video of it 



    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts
    In the 1860s, on the Bedford level, a flat earther offered a bet about measurements to show the earth is flat.

    Like Erf, the flat earther simply looked along a telescope and broadly claimed he could see what he shouldn’t be able to see. A surveyor, places objects of a known height along the canal; knowing that refraction caused by the air above the water bends light downwards making it possible to view objects further away then they should be.

    when you place the objects of known height along the surface: the curvature is clearly revealed as these height polls were not in a straight live, but followed a “bulge”.

    Ironically: despite this being an exceptionally famous experiment, not a single example of basic sight lines is ever used in ANY flat earthers measurement. flat earthers on youtube, and elf deliberately chose non systematic measurements where they do not account for refraction, possibly on purpose because they would prove the earth is a sphere if they did: and then claim the earth is flat.

    In reality, there are many images with such height references: long straight bridges, long straight power lines (and they are indeed straight): when you account for the refraction closer to the surface using these sight lines; the water invariably looks curved. 

    So, when you account for surface refraction: water looks curved. All of the measurements, and objects obscured by the horizon, all demonstrate the curvature you claim isnt there; and account for all the refraction that you claim is.
  • someone234someone234 605 Pts
    edited March 6
    The 3-D being perceives in 2-D and assumes it's seeing depth too.

    You can't just look at a photo and use your eye to accurately comprehend curvature, you need real measurements etc because the eye has limitations.
    Erfisflat
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    edited March 6
    So far we have: power poles appear to curve downwards over some unspecified distance. A boat appears to disappear over a curve over yet another unspecified distance. A few strawmen about maps, and pointing at the sun. Oh and let's not forget about the unevidenced assumption that refraction explains every instance of the earth measuring flat, while refraction apparently is ignored with the prior evidence, where the earth appears to curve downward. In the video, which is one of the very many short distance tests that prove the earth is flat, the hull of a small boat is seen from a distance which should be impossible if the earth was a globe that is 25,000 miles in circumference. Nice job guys. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    edited March 6
    And I haven't accused anyone of cognitive dissonance, this is yet another goober lie. Way to dodge the fact that you repeatedly accused me of something I haven't done, backpedaling and changing the subject. We can add that to the very long list of examples of goobers Bs ad hoc.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @Erfisflat
    Your video uses 8in/mi^2 which has been debunked. YOU COMPLETELY IGNORE MY ARGUMENTS POSTED BEFORE!
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    edited March 6
    Pogue said:
    @Erfisflat
    Your video uses 8in/mi^2 which has been debunked. YOU COMPLETELY IGNORE MY ARGUMENTS POSTED BEFORE!
    No it doesnt. Your arguments are about the sun, not the earth.
    Pogue
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • someone234someone234 605 Pts
    edited March 6
    Notice how @erfisflat never ever dares to fight me on my 3-D vs 5-D (yes 5-D not 4-D) concept.

    In the 5-D being's perception, the world turning (which is a 4-D experience to perceive) is actually perceptible like eyesight to you which is a 2-D experience to perceive.

    This is about limitations of comprehending eyesight-based evidence.

    The Earth is round based on plane routes, gravity, magnetism (the poles of magnets are due to the poles of the Earth) and finally due to how the sun and moon move through the sky (seriously think about how they move, where do they go 'down to' if it's flat?).

    I am the one he cannot breathe when he debates against because I don't fight visual evidence with visual evidence.


    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    Pogue said:
    @Erfisflat
    Your video uses 8in/mi^2 which has been debunked. YOU COMPLETELY IGNORE MY ARGUMENTS POSTED BEFORE!
    No it doesnt. Your arguments are about the sun, not the earth.
    Yes it does! At 4:49. Straw man fallacy, my first argument
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    edited March 6
    The test clearly uses the curvature calculator, which accounts for observer height. There was also a licenced engineer present that witnessed the test.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    Pogue said:
    Erfisflat said:
    Pogue said:
    @Erfisflat
    Your video uses 8in/mi^2 which has been debunked. YOU COMPLETELY IGNORE MY ARGUMENTS POSTED BEFORE!
    No it doesnt. Your arguments are about the sun, not the earth.
    Yes it does! At 4:49. Straw man fallacy, my first argument
    7:56
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    mentioning the formula is not the same as using it for the experiment.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    And I haven't accused anyone of cognitive dissonance, this is yet another goober lie. Way to dodge the fact that you repeatedly accused me of something I haven't done, backpedaling and changing the subject. We can add that to the very long list of examples of goobers Bs ad hoc.

    “If anyone questions their sanity, it's because they are presented evidence that goes against a core belief, and they suffer from cognitive dissonance.”

  • hahahaha he literally has blocked me out of fear.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts

    Erfisflat said:
    And I haven't accused anyone of cognitive dissonance, this is yet another goober lie. Way to dodge the fact that you repeatedly accused me of something I haven't done, backpedaling and changing the subject. We can add that to the very long list of examples of goobers Bs ad hoc.
    Note the general accusations, no specifics or quotes when he says I lie, no examples given, and no attempt to show what he’s saying. 

    This is how Erf attempts to pretend as if he’s correct and others are incorrect: generalized accusations with no proof.
    Erfisflat
  • @Gooberry be careful, if you debate too defensively he blocks you because he only likes tit-for-tat debating not demolition level round-earth arguments.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    So, boats have been claimed, repeatedly, to go over a curve. This is supposed to happen at just 3 miles on the globe, and every globetard agrees this is the case without the first test to prove it. When a test (with actual measurements) is performed to falsify the claim, and a boat's bottom is seen nearly 4 times that distance and everyone ignores it
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • @Erfisflat A boat shrinks as it moves further away. Genius the curvature is very slight and slow, it's not so steep a ball that the eyesight is going to just see the boat immediately sail 'around'.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @Erfisflat
    Outliers have no meaning. Does your video account for all possibilities of how the atmosphere will distort it? 
    Erfisflat
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    @Erfisflat A boat shrinks as it moves further away. Genius the curvature is very slight and slow, it's not so steep a ball that the eyesight is going to just see the boat immediately sail 'around'.
    anyone have anything coherent to offer? No? ok there is substantial evidence for a flat earth. What were you guys claiming about the sun?
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
    Pogue
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • AHAHAHAHAHHAAHA HE CANNOT ARGUE AGAINST MY FLAWLESS DEFENCE SEE THAT BEAUTY OBSERVE IT EVERYONE RIGHT NOW!

    Literally flawless defence against his attacks by me. Top tier.
    Erfisflat
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @Erfisflat
    The Earth is also very massive so it is hard to see curvature. Please try to debunk the first argument on this thread. 
    someone234Erfisflat
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    Pogue said:
    @Erfisflat
    The Earth is also very massive so it is hard to see curvature. Please try to debunk the first argument on this thread. 
    How very scientific of you! "It's too big!" The mathematics doesn't lie. The earth should have a measurable curve. Please address the evidence presented for a flat earth.
    Pogue
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    Pogue said:
    @Erfisflat
    The Earth is also very massive so it is hard to see curvature. Please try to debunk the first argument on this thread. 
    How very scientific of you! "It's too big!" The mathematics doesn't lie. The earth should have a measurable curve. Please address the evidence presented for a flat earth.
    What evidence?
    Erfisflat
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @Erfisflat
    You do nothing to address my arguments. It is so annoying to debate you because you ignore evidence and arguments
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Math does lie at times. For example, divide infinity by any number, why is it still infinity?

    Any number divided by itself is 1 right? what's 0 devided by 0?

    What's pi divided by pi? By the time you conclude that pi over pi is 1 you will have had to gone to the last digit of pi.

    You mean physics not math and physics can lie, that's why all theories can be disproved in some way if the evidence comes up to support it.
    Erfisflat
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    Pogue said:
    Erfisflat said:
    Pogue said:
    @Erfisflat
    The Earth is also very massive so it is hard to see curvature. Please try to debunk the first argument on this thread. 
    How very scientific of you! "It's too big!" The mathematics doesn't lie. The earth should have a measurable curve. Please address the evidence presented for a flat earth.
    What evidence?
    "So, boats have been claimed, repeatedly, to go over a curve. This is supposed to happen at just 3 miles on the globe, and every globetard agrees this is the case without the first test to prove it. When a test (with actual measurements) is performed to falsify the claim, and a boat's bottom is seen nearly 4 times that distance and everyone ignores it."

    case in point. "what evidence?"



    Pogue
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    Gooberry said:

    Erfisflat said:
    And I haven't accused anyone of cognitive dissonance, this is yet another goober lie. Way to dodge the fact that you repeatedly accused me of something I haven't done, backpedaling and changing the subject. We can add that to the very long list of examples of goobers Bs ad hoc.
    Note the general accusations, no specifics or quotes when he says I lie, no examples given, and no attempt to show what he’s saying. 

    This is how Erf attempts to pretend as if he’s correct and others are incorrect: generalized accusations with no proof.
     It's like you haven't even read my post. I explicitly pointed out your false accusation.
    Pogue
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    Math does lie at times. For example, divide infinity by any number, why is it still infinity?

    Any number divided by itself is 1 right? what's 0 devided by 0?

    What's pi divided by pi? By the time you conclude that pi over pi is 1 you will have had to gone to the last digit of pi.

    You mean physics not math and physics can lie, that's why all theories can be disproved in some way if the evidence comes up to support it.
    Always good for comic relief. please let us know how that whole aliens communicating with you from another dimension thing works out for you.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    Pogue said:
    Erfisflat said:
    Pogue said:
    @Erfisflat
    The Earth is also very massive so it is hard to see curvature. Please try to debunk the first argument on this thread. 
    How very scientific of you! "It's too big!" The mathematics doesn't lie. The earth should have a measurable curve. Please address the evidence presented for a flat earth.
    What evidence?
    "So, boats have been claimed, repeatedly, to go over a curve. This is supposed to happen at just 3 miles on the globe, and every globetard agrees this is the case without the first test to prove it. When a test (with actual measurements) is performed to falsify the claim, and a boat's bottom is seen nearly 4 times that distance and everyone ignores it."

    case in point. "what evidence?"



    I never made that argument! Guess I have to repost this.
    I guess I will start and since you guys did not debunk these yet I will repost them.
    There are so many more ways you can prove to yourself the Earth is round. You can see more things the higher up you are. Long suspension bridges’ towers slope slightly away from one another to account for the curvature of the Earth. Every other planet is a spinning sphere. Satellites exist (as proven by the existence of your iPhone), and obey rules that only work if they’re orbiting around Earth. We’ve taken many, many pictures of Earth. Buy a weather balloon and strap a camera to it.

    Satellites have to exist for the internet to work. The TV would not be here without relativity which involves gravity. The ISS exists because you can clearly see it if it goes above your location. You can easily watch the youtube live stream from the ISS. 

    Hurricanes, cyclones, and typhoons are all the same thing: Spinning masses of air sucking moisture from the ocean, dumping it back on us and destroying things in their path. A hurricane is just a giant wind drain—a low-pressure center with winds flushing into it. The wind always blows counter-clockwise inwards in Northern Hemisphere hurricanes—check out this picture of Hurricane Katrina and the United States. Notice the direction the wind is traveling with a compass, depending on where the Hurricane is.

    However, in the Southern Hemisphere, the wind travels the opposite direction. Here’s a picture of Hurricane Catarina, a very rare Southern Hemisphere Atlantic Hurricane:

    Notice that Catarina is very clearly spinning in the opposite direction. That’s because of the Coriolis effect—the wind changes direction as the planet spins. If the Earth wasn’t spinning, the wind should blow straight into the middle of the hurricane from all directions. But the Earth spins faster at the equator than at the poles, because our planet’s midsection has the furthest distance to travel with each rotation. Winds traveling northwards or southwards curve as they travel from slower spinning to faster spinning regions of the planet. The wind carves the opposite direction based on whether you are above or below the equator since the Earth’s rotation gets slower on alternate sides. 

    You can recreate this by spinning a basketball on your finger, and moving a marker from the bottom up or the top down—notice what the line looks like above and below the middle of the ball.

    Okay, let’s try to explain all that with a flat Earth. If Earth was a giant spinning plate with the North Pole at its center, all hurricanes should spin in the same direction and should have a much more spiral shape the further south (i.e., away from the center) you head. You could maybe slow down the spins further from the center of the spinning plate, but then you should see the continents ripping apart from the different speeds. It just doesn’t make any sense.

    Look at this, a guy sent a camera to space and the Earth is round:  https://www.geek.com/geek-cetera/homemade-spacecraft-reaches-100000-ft-films-the-whole-way-1287792/.

    The video proves why the Coriolis effect is real and is dictated by hemisphere.  The important parts are from 1:44-5:35. It has a controlled experiment. In the end, it explains why there is a difference between hemispheres. It works because it does. To understand this, think of a pool at the geographic poles. It is stationary relative to Earth, but every sidereal day, it is actually completing one full rotation. The part further away from the pole and closer to the equator move faster because it has to complete a larger movement in the same amount of time (that is why rockets are launched closer to the equator. When the plug is pulled (part of the experiment) everything is moving toward the drain in the middle. The far side is faster so it gets ahead while the slower part is too slow so it lags behind. 

    Edit: The video was a picture by accident because I copied and pasted my arguments. Here is the video:

    I have debunked the model so many times. You have no evidence. 

    Erfisflat
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    So far we have: power poles appear to curve downwards over some unspecified distance. A boat appears to disappear over a curve over yet another unspecified distance. A few strawmen about maps, and pointing at the sun. Oh and let's not forget about the unevidenced assumption that refraction explains every instance of the earth measuring flat, while refraction apparently is ignored with the prior evidence, where the earth appears to curve downward. In the video, which is one of the very many short distance tests that prove the earth is flat, the hull of a small boat is seen from a distance which should be impossible if the earth was a globe that is 25,000 miles in circumference. Nice job guys. 
    So, boats go over the horizon; and every measurement where there are sight lines above the water: it appears curved.

    this is directly observable proof the earth is curved as they are observations that are required on a spherical earth, and
    shouldnt happen on a flat earth. 

    These directly contradict Erfs CONSTANT assertions that there’s no evidence of curvature.

    Note that Erf has no reply; he simply dismisses the actual observations of curvature: despite his repeated demands that these are exactly the evidence he’s continually demanded
    we show.

    its almost as if he doesn’t want to accept any evidence!

    now; again, he simply asserts the argument about maps and the sun, without offering any explanation, justification or argument.

    he then asserts that we have ignored refraction: despite the specific arguments making clear how to account for refraction, and another demonatating the refraction erf asserts occurs can’t possibly occur.

    Erf hasn’t doesnt seem to reply with more than assertions, he simply says “it’s a straw man”, without answering the point, and claims “we haven’t accounted
    for refraction”, without explaining how why or where.


    Now; given that Erf has simply used assertion, (I have given examples and provided a justification as to why), he seems unable to argue with the facts as presented, and evidence he has demanded has been provided: what he does, is simply argue as if he has presented an argument and we have not:

    he is doing this to bamboozle and to make it impossible to argue with: to muddy the very concept of reality for the purposes of claiming victory.

    Essentially gaslighting.





  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    edited March 6
    "So, boats have been claimed, repeatedly, to go over a curve. This is supposed to happen at just 3 miles on the globe, and every globetard agrees this is the case without the first test to prove it. When a test (with actual measurements) is performed to falsify the claim, and a boat's bottom is seen nearly 4 times that distance, everyone ignores it."

    I can copy and paste too!
    Pogue
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    Im not defending a "flat earth model" im defending a flat earth, or more specifically, flat water.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • GooberryGooberry 404 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    So, boats have been claimed, repeatedly, to go over a curve. This is supposed to happen at just 3 miles on the globe, and every globetard agrees this is the case without the first test to prove it. When a test (with actual measurements) is performed to falsify the claim, and a boat's bottom is seen nearly 4 times that distance and everyone ignores it
    Boats go over the horizon. This is an objective and observable fact.

    We see it in your videos, images and almost every “disproof” of a flat earth.

    This is literally THE EVIDENCE FOR A BULGE YOU HAVE ASKED FOR.


    someone234
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