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Donald Trump thinks vaccines cause autism! They don't. Thoughts

Debate Information

Donald Trump thinks vaccines cause autism! 

His quote: "I am totally in favor of vaccines. But I want smaller doses over a longer period of time. [The] Same exact amount, but you take this little beautiful baby, and you pump--I mean, it looks just like it's meant for a horse, not for a child, and we've had so many instances, people that work for me. ... [in which] a child, a beautiful child went to have the vaccine, and came back and a week later had a tremendous fever, got very, very sick, now is autistic." 

They do not but I will like to hear Trump supporters thought on this. 
joecavalry
  1. Live Poll

    Thoughts on it

    10 votes
    1. It was stupid
      70.00%
    2. I do not care about what he thinks about it. I support him.
      30.00%
I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

“We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

I friended myself! 
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  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    "it looks just like it's "

    "had a tremendous fever, got very, very sick, now is autistic." 

    had a fever, now is autistic

    .... Moron.

  • joecavalryjoecavalry 430 Pts   -  
    I believe that some more research should be done on vaccines and their possible connection to autism, etc.
    ErfisflatwhiteflameDrCerealPoguesomeone234BaconToes
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    I believe that some more research should be done on vaccines and their possible connection to autism, etc.
    Where do you feel the research is lacking? What research, specifically, do you feel should be done?
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    I believe that some more research should be done on vaccines and their possible connection to autism, etc.
    No. 
    The thimerosal in vaccines, is one thing, gone. There is no correlation or causation between autism and thimerosal. Now, this is thimerosal. 

    On the right, there is the mercury atom (Hg). By itself, it can cause a lot of damage. It is primarily toxic in its methylmercury form. That is mercury attached to a Ch3 group. A thing I find cool about mercury is its ability to switch between a 0, 1 plus, or 2 plus oxidative states, each giving different properties. 2 plus allows the mercury to participate in organic compound formation. That is exactly what it is doing here!  To the left, it is bound by a sulfur, then connected to an entire aromatic benzene derivative. On the right of the mercury, we have an ethyl group. This does not look like the toxic state of mercury at all! Since thimerosal was believed to cause autism, but now it is proven that it doesn't, vaccines do not cause autism. Vaccines have never caused autism. 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    There are many recorded cases of adverse reactions to vaccines.

    There are also many recorded coincidences between vaccines and autistic conditions, and also between vaccines and more profound cognitive dysfunctions.

    "They don't". Is an unequivocal proclamation, and one that can not be easily validated.
    BaconToes
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -   edited March 2018
    Even if vaccines are laced with mind-retarding agents and make us susceptible to media, that wouldn't be autism.

    Even if it makes us autistic, that wouldn't be something we could fight...

    If the illuminati is so powerful it can make the entire science community unite, you don't fight them by challenging the science. Rather, you have to just accept the injection and work your best to counteract the drugs and how they dull the mind.
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    There are many recorded cases of adverse reactions to vaccines.

    There are also many recorded coincidences between vaccines and autistic conditions, and also between vaccines and more profound cognitive dysfunctions.

    "They don't". Is an unequivocal proclamation, and one that can not be easily validated.
    When did these happen. It is an accepted science fact that they don’t because there is no evidence. 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @Pogue If you wanted to give drugs to people that make them susceptible to subliminal messaging, you'd do it as young as possible. You also would want to make the taking of it as undeniably justified in being mandatory as you can.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    ...so Trump wants to set up an independent scientific commission on vaccine safety.  That doesn't seem to be a bad idea, considering the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has paid has paid Americans over $3.584 billion dollars for vaccine injury, including millions to children who developed an autism spectrum disorder.  The CDC's position is that;

    More research is needed to find out how common it is for people to have autism and a mitochondrial disorder. Right now, it seems rare. In general, more research about mitochondrial disease and autism is needed.

    https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/mitochondrial-faq.html


    BaconToes
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame They control the results, so it's very hard to explain. The recipe you are told and what you are actually injected with can easily be different if the people who control 'science' as in the authority of 'right or wrong' is a group that wishes to deceive.
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame The original Illuminati were a band of 'scientists' dedicated to proving god false. They then grew to become the authority figures of all science. If you find out something that supports the flat earth or the reality where going to either pole may actually matter and the center of the poles actually are important then you are terminated 'died of the cold, frostbite, hypothermia tragic case'.
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    ...so Trump wants to set up an independent scientific commission on vaccine safety.  That doesn't seem to be a bad idea, considering the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has paid has paid Americans over $3.584 billion dollars for vaccine injury, including millions to children who developed an autism spectrum disorder.  The CDC's position is that;

    More research is needed to find out how common it is for people to have autism and a mitochondrial disorder. Right now, it seems rare. In general, more research about mitochondrial disease and autism is needed.

    https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/mitochondrial-faq.html


    Um, so you ignore the quote. He clearly stated that he believes it. We already have it. "The United States already has a commission on vaccines. A top U.S. public health official said Friday that it relies on an array of medical, scientific and community experts to set policy on vaccines, and does so in an open and deliberative process." "The United States already has a vaccine safety commission. And it works really well, experts say." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/01/13/the-u-s-already-has-a-vaccine-safety-commission-and-it-works-really-well-experts-say/?utm_term=.ff09c83cb880
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    There are many recorded cases of adverse reactions to vaccines.

    There are also many recorded coincidences between vaccines and autistic conditions, and also between vaccines and more profound cognitive dysfunctions.

    "They don't". Is an unequivocal proclamation, and one that can not be easily validated.
    No one is arguing that vaccines are completely safe from all adverse reactions, but while you're correct that it's difficult to prove a negative, there is actually no correlation between vaccines and autism, and no established mechanism by which they can cause them. The same is true for "profound cognitive dysfunctions." It's fine if you want to claim that there's a set of "many recorded coincidences", but especially when someone's making a claim that there is a link between the two, you need to actually establish that that link is supported by more than anecdote.
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -   edited March 2018
    I was vaccinated regularly and have asperger's syndrome (high functioning autism)

    @Pogue Just imagine, just for a second, that what you are injected with has genuinely got vaccines in it. Now imagine it has drugs of its own that make your brainstem not grow ruthless and independent in thought but significantly susceptible to input... sensitive to everything... Imagine that these side effects affect naturally gullible and extroverted people very mildly and give no autistic traits because they naturally are already sensitive to convince. Those that are on the other end, that will highly resist these drugs and the hormonal effects... These people already were quite introverted and vigilant in thinking and yes sure, antisocial but they go further now. The reaction is that they are extremely incapable of asserting themselves... poor motor skills... Poor charisma... they end up cursed to not convince anyone of the truth as the reaction instead of sensitivity is that it attacks the parts that makes them able to convince and change other's minds... Makes them so socially disabled that they need to type to talk and are scared of everything and everyone outside of their strict regime.

    What a convenient way to shut them out.

    Oh and the few who are geniuses and do begin to scratch the surface unless they are smart like me and post online anonymously about theories that the government loves seeing you guys taunt and doubt (yes I know the illuminati knows who I am, they don't harm me because I don't harm them I am finding the truth 'around them' not exposing individuals).

    The fact of the matter is, vaccination is undeniably a great thing. We don't want yellow fever. We also don't want the mind-altering drugs that alter brain development start-to-finish.
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    I was vaccinated regularly and have asperger's syndrome (high functioning autism)

    @Pogue Just imagine, just for a second, that what you are injected with has genuinely got vaccines in it. Now imagine it has drugs of its own that make your brainstem not grow ruthless and independent in thought but significantly susceptible to input... sensitive to everything... Imagine that these side effects affect naturally gullible and extroverted people very mildly and give no autistic traits because they naturally are already sensitive to convince. Those that are on the other end, that will highly resist these drugs and the hormonal effects... These people already were quite introverted and vigilant in thinking and yes sure, antisocial but they go further now. The reaction is that they are extremely incapable of asserting themselves... poor motor skills... Poor charisma... they end up cursed to not convince anyone of the truth as the reaction instead of sensitivity is that it attacks the parts that makes them able to convince and change other's minds... Makes them so socially disabled that they need to type to talk and are scared of everything and everyone outside of their strict regime.

    What a convenient way to shut them out.

    Oh and the few who are geniuses and do begin to scratch the surface unless they are smart like me and post online anonymously about theories that the government loves seeing you guys taunt and doubt (yes I know the illuminati knows who I am, they don't harm me because I don't harm them I am finding the truth 'around them' not exposing individuals).

    The fact of the matter is, vaccination is undeniably a great thing. We don't want yellow fever. We also don't want the mind-altering drugs that alter brain development start-to-finish.
    There is no evidence for what you are saying. I have all my vaccine shots. I do not have it. The doctor that created the study has been discredited and lost his licenses because of how fake it was. Autism is genetic and there is no evidence that it does this. You say "imagine" but they do no do that. They are not mind-altering drugs. The only negative effects of it are if you are allergic to the ingredients.  
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @Pogue Why do they treat him like that for carrying out a study?! Why don't they explain how he went wrong instead of sending a message that if you dare do what he did you will get discredited and fired too?
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @Pogue the thing you are injected with and the vaccine quantity in it IS NOT 100% VACCINE (under the autism theory) you are being injected with other things and they are blinding you to it.
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    @Pogue Why do they treat him like that for carrying out a study?! Why don't they explain how he went wrong instead of sending a message that if you dare do what he did you will get discredited and fired too?
    It was not just because of that but he "had acted “dishonestly and irresponsibly” in conducting the experiments that led to the publication of the paper. According to the BBC, among his alleged acts of misconduct were conducting those studies without the ethical approval of the hospital at which he practiced, and paying children at his son’s birthday party for blood samples."

    There is no evidence that it causes autism. We just got better at diagnosing it. 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    @Pogue the thing you are injected with and the vaccine quantity in it IS NOT 100% VACCINE (under the autism theory) you are being injected with other things and they are blinding you to it.
    It is not a scientific theory. There is no evidence. Can you prove that? 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    Pogue said:
    Um, so you ignore the quote. He clearly stated that he believes it. We already have it. "The United States already has a commission on vaccines. A top U.S. public health official said Friday that it relies on an array of medical, scientific and community experts to set policy on vaccines, and does so in an open and deliberative process." "The United States already has a vaccine safety commission. And it works really well, experts say." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/01/13/the-u-s-already-has-a-vaccine-safety-commission-and-it-works-really-well-experts-say/?utm_term=.ff09c83cb880
    He "clearly" states what?  That a child was vaccinated, and that shortly thereafter it became very ill and ended up with autism?  That is quite likely to have happened.  What's your point?


  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    Um, so you ignore the quote. He clearly stated that he believes it. We already have it. "The United States already has a commission on vaccines. A top U.S. public health official said Friday that it relies on an array of medical, scientific and community experts to set policy on vaccines, and does so in an open and deliberative process." "The United States already has a vaccine safety commission. And it works really well, experts say." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/01/13/the-u-s-already-has-a-vaccine-safety-commission-and-it-works-really-well-experts-say/?utm_term=.ff09c83cb880
    He "clearly" states what?  That a child was vaccinated, and that shortly thereafter it became very ill and ended up with autism?  That is quite likely to have happened.  What's your point?


    How is it likely? He said something that is false and very dangerous. That is the point. Vaccines don't cause autism and saying that it does is dangerous. 
    whiteflame
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    Pogue said:
    How is it likely? He said something that is false and very dangerous. That is the point. Vaccines don't cause autism and saying that it does is dangerous. 
    Trump didn't say vaccines cause autism.  He said a child got a vaccine.  The child got sick.  The child ended up with autism.  You inferred that the autism was linked to the vaccine.
    Pogue
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    How is it likely? He said something that is false and very dangerous. That is the point. Vaccines don't cause autism and saying that it does is dangerous. 
    Trump didn't say vaccines cause autism.  He said a child got a vaccine.  The child got sick.  The child ended up with autism.  You inferred that the autism was linked to the vaccine.
    I actually said that they don't and so that is a straw man. Let me refresh your memory. This was the quote "I am totally in favor of vaccines. But I want smaller doses over a longer period of time. [The] Same exact amount, but you take this little beautiful baby, and you pump--I mean, it looks just like it's meant for a horse, not for a child, and we've had so many instances, people that work for me. ... [in which] a child, a beautiful child went to have the vaccine, and came back and a week later had a tremendous fever, got very, very sick, now is autistic." 

    The sentence is really incoherent.

    Let's analyze it. 
    Sentence 1: He said he was in favor of it. Ok. Nothing valuable here. 
    Sentence 2: He said but. He is introducing something else and it was that he wants it over a longer period of time. 
    Sentence 3 part 1: He said he wants the same exact amount. 
    Sentence 3 part 2: He said he does not want those doses for children because they look like they are for horses. He says "you pump" which indicates that it is a lot or too much. 
    Sentence 3 part 3: People that work for him got their child vaccinated. Then they got sick and got autism. How does that not say that the child became autistic after becoming vaccinated? They got the vaccine then became autistic. He also says many instances of it happening. Meaning that it is not just one. Meaning that it has to be the vaccines if it was multiple times and it was right after getting vaccinated. Why do you continue to defend him?
    whiteflameSlanderIsNotDebate1995
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    Pogue said:

    Sentence 3 part 3: People that work for him got their child vaccinated. Then they got sick and got autism. How does that not say that the child became autistic after becoming vaccinated? They got the vaccine then became autistic. He also says many instances of it happening. Meaning that it is not just one. Meaning that it has to be the vaccines if it was multiple times and it was right after getting vaccinated. Why do you continue to defend him?
    I've edited you post down to the relevant part.  Trump does say that kids became autistic after being vaccinated.  What Trump does not say is that the vaccines caused the autism, which is what you stated he said. 

    It has happens numerous times.  A study of VICP compensated cases has found that in a small sampling of the 2500 cases, 83 people were payed over $113 million for autism and related brain injuries due to vaccines.  It probably would have been better for Trump to have referenced the 1300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage have been compensated in court, rather than limiting his statement specifically to autism, but his point seems valid, that we should be looking for a less dangerous way to vaccinate our kids.  Why do you think we shouldn't be looking for a better way?
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    I've edited you post down to the relevant part.  Trump does say that kids became autistic after being vaccinated.  What Trump does not say is that the vaccines caused the autism, which is what you stated he said. 

    It has happens numerous times.  A study of VICP compensated cases has found that in a small sampling of the 2500 cases, 83 people were payed over $113 million for autism and related brain injuries due to vaccines.  It probably would have been better for Trump to have referenced the 1300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage have been compensated in court, rather than limiting his statement specifically to autism, but his point seems valid, that we should be looking for a less dangerous way to vaccinate our kids.  Why do you think we shouldn't be looking for a better way?
    Trump was clearly inferring a link between autism and vaccination, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered stating, in the exact same sentence, that the child received the vaccine, got a fever, and became autistic. It may not be a direct claim of cause and effect, but when you state it the way he did, it's pretty clear that you're inferring more than just a coincidence. If that is not the case, then why did he bother stating it in this way?

    As for your latter claim... I've actually read this study before, and it's not particularly favorable to the claims you're trying to make. You're trying to establish that there's some reason to believe in a link between autism and vaccination. I would contend that that cannot be proven by legal means. In fact, the paper itself is quite specific about this:

    "This assessment of compensated cases showing an association between vaccines and autism is not, and does not purport to be, science. In no way does it explain scientific causation or even necessarily undermine the reasoning of the decision in the Omnibus Autism Proceeding based on the scientific theories and medical evidence before the VICP."

    This is expanded upon in the conclusion, though I think it's even more important to note how exactly they defined autism.

    "Because autistic disorder is defined only by an aggregation of symptoms, there is no meaningful distinction between the terms "autism" and "autism-like symptoms." This article makes the distinction only to accurately reflect the terms that the Court of Federal Claims, caregivers, and others use. It is not a distinction to which the authors attach significance."

    That's pretty important because, even if we assume that all of these 83 cases fall into the "autism" category, the lack of a meaningful distinction means that designating them as autism is problematic and arbitrary.

    "...the DSM-IV provides fairly clear diagnostic criteria for autism. If the child doesn’t have enough of these criteria to be diagnosed as autistic, that child could have “autism symptoms” but not autism. In other words, if a child shows a number of odd behaviours but not the classic triad of impairments, then they might have ASD or Asperger’s Syndrome or HFA, but they don’t have autism because the diagnosis of autism depends upon a specific set of diagnostic criteria, and the child doesn’t meet those criteria. If he did, he’d have a diagnosis of autism. It’s just that simple, but Holland et al try to obfuscate by trying to make terms like “autism-like symptoms and similar terms mean what they want them to mean...

    Nor are diagnostic criteria for a condition like autism spectrum disorders a difficult concept for most people; certainly they aren’t for doctors. Apparently, however, they represent a very difficult concept indeed for Holland et al, who seem to be arguing that any child with autism-like symptoms must have autism. This is akin to arguing that anyone who has a belly ache or diarrhea must have irritable bowel syndrome or that someone who experiences a headache must have migraines. In addition, such an argument assumes that all symptoms are equal when it comes to making the diagnosis of autism."

    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/when-you-cant-win-on-science-invoke-the-law-2/

    And their poor methods don't stop at redefining what autism is. 

    "All the authors did was search a database for specific terms and compiled the search results together, then try to report a causality link, while acknowledging that the legal standard of causation is not the same as the scientific standard. Using their method, I could pick any word I wanted, one that I know is in the database, then create a paper designed to show causation."

    https://www.wired.com/2011/05/is-the-vaccine-injury-compensation-program-covering-up-an-autism-vaccine-link/

    Even if we assume their results are accurate, we've got another problem: they don't tell us anything interesting.

    "83/2,500 results in an estimated prevalence rate of approximately 3.3%. On the surface, this seems to support the claim that the prevalence of autism/ASD is three-fold higher in VICP-compensated children than it is estimated to be in the general population (around 1%). Of course, there’s at least one problem. The authors are even forced to admit it. Specifically, of these 83 children, Holland et alcould only find documentation of autistic symptoms for only 39. The rest of those 83 were “diagnosed” solely on the basis of a parental questionnaire. This lower number results in an estimated prevalence of autism of around 1.6% in the VICP-compensated population, an estimate that is falling into the range of what we would expect in the general population."

    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/when-you-cant-win-on-science-invoke-the-law-2/

    Lastly, the whole thing is tainted by bias.

    "...two of the authors represent clients who have claims on behalf of family members in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. This is not an independent study. The authors are biased. The authors have a vested interest in the outcome. Also, all authors are on the board of the Elizabeth Birt Center for Autism Law and Advocacy, which is an autism advocacy group."

    https://www.wired.com/2011/05/is-the-vaccine-injury-compensation-program-covering-up-an-autism-vaccine-link/

    So yeah, I have a hard time believing that the study presents anything meaningful. The authors go out of their way to state that they cannot make any definitive claims about causation of autism based on this work, they use legal and not scientific data to establish anything akin to scientific causation, their numbers are deceptive, and they aren't exactly clean in their assessment of the data to begin with.

    As for your last question... I'm really just puzzled by it. It's not as though there's a lack of research on improving vaccine safety and efficacy, particularly through improved vaccine delivery (both through private and public research) and subsequently testing for shedding of virus after vaccination. Beyond that, I'm not clear precisely what could be done. The formulations have largely been optimized, and many vaccines require injection with a very low probability of causing harm, otherwise they're either practically useless or they require people to get many more injections. So, while I agree that we should be looking for "a better way," I don't see what Trump is seeking to accomplish, particularly not as he's trying to slash the budget of nearly every agency that would fund such work.
    Pogue
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame They control the results, so it's very hard to explain. The recipe you are told and what you are actually injected with can easily be different if the people who control 'science' as in the authority of 'right or wrong' is a group that wishes to deceive.
    Not sure if you're being serious, but the results are actually pretty readily available, and doctors who inject you with unknown ingredients tend to get sued for a reason. It's the same reason that companies producing vaccines wouldn't last very long if their drug's ingredients weren't posted in full online.
    Pogue
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -   edited March 2018
    @whiteflame Let me break this down for you:

    The people who 'rubber-stamp' or the equivalent the stickers and licences for the entire process allow mind-susceptibility drugs to be mixed in with the concoction that contains real vaccinations to real disease, yes it does.

    If you are naturally extroverted, gullible and/or agreeable (whichever term you prefer, really they are all psychologically similar), the smoother, less noticeable the effects are. 

    If you are towards the introverted, vigilant and/or argumentative end of the spectrum you end up suffering from hypersensitivity in sensory aspects and your brain has to fight extremely hard against the urge to flow hormones into the other parts of the brain while it tries to keep its original thought and the neuron paths that are being slowly deteriorated (or at the very least inhibited) by the butterfly effect drugs that controls the entire childhood development.

    So the very same sensitivity and susceptibility encouraging drugs react very differently based on the raw persona. It turns original thinkers into socially awkward hermits who have poor motor-neuron coordination due to the effort their brain is putting in taking away neurons form other parts to put it into the inhibited path of original self-produced thoughts.

    This is actually precisely going to produce autism (if intelligent, high-functioning). 

    Sure, it's a theory and sure, I can't name the drugs. Just begin to question everything... Even doing that is hard on the brain... It takes real muscle-memory practise because of what they have done to us.

    We have an education system where 'kat' is treated equally wrong and as 'xqw' for a spelling of "cat" in a spelling bee. We are raised to only memorise right answers, never to learn how to bridge our way 'into the right answer'. Even math marks you down if you come up with a weird way to work it out that the marker can't easily follow in their A-B-C method.
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  

    Sure, it's a theory and sure, I can't name the drugs. 
    Sorry, you lost me at this point... you know, the one where you can furnish absolutely no proof of this actually happening. It's a nice theory that's completely unsupported by any data. No independent labs have discovered what you've concluded must be in these vaccines, nor can I think of any drug that actually produces the effects you've described. And if perspectives like yours weren't leading many to avoid vaccination, which endangers the lives of those who are immunocompromised, then I'd have no problem with it. But I do. Of course, my concerns won't stop you from believing what you do, so go right on ahead.
    Pogue
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame Why is it that when they inject you, you are not permitted to carry out a test to see what they put in? Or why can't you watch the process where they mix it?
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame Let me break this down for you:

    The people who 'rubber-stamp' or the equivalent the stickers and licences for the entire process allow mind-susceptibility drugs to be mixed in with the concoction that contains real vaccinations to real disease, yes it does.

    If you are naturally extroverted, gullible and/or agreeable (whichever term you prefer, really they are all psychologically similar), the smoother, less noticeable the effects are. 

    If you are towards the introverted, vigilant and/or argumentative end of teh spectrum you end up suffering from hypersensitivity in sensory aspects and your brain has to fight extremely hard against the urge to flow hormones into the other parts of the brain while it tries to keep its original thought and the neurone paths that are being slowly deteriorated (or at teh very least inhibited) by the butterfly effect drugs that controls the entire childhood development.

    So the very same sensitivity and susceptibility encouraging drugs react very differently based on the raw persona. It turns original thinkers into socially awkward hermits who have poor motor-neuron coordination due to the effort their brain is putting in taking away neurones form other parts to ptu it into the inhibited path of original self-produced thoughts.

    This is actually precisely going ot produce autism (if intelligent, high-functioning). 

    Sure, it's a theory and sure, I can't name the drugs. Just begin to question everything... Even doing that is hard on the brain... It takes real muscle-memory practise because of what they have done to us.

    We have an education system where 'kat' is treated equally wrong and as 'xqw' for a spelling of "cat" in a spelling bee. We are raised to only memorise right answers, never to learn how to bridge our way 'into the right answer'. Even math marks you down if you come up with a weird way to work it out that the marker can't easily follow in their A-B-C method.
    1. Do you have evidence they allow it through?
    2. Yes, vaccines give you the disease but in a dose that will not kill you.
    3. How does this happen? How do you know that if you are agreeable/gullible it will happen?
    4. I actually am very argumentative (I argue with people for the stupidest reasons) and this has never happened to me.
    5. How do you know that it is deteriorating? 
    6. I was awkward way before my vaccines. How does it turn people into that? Any actual evidence besides your guess? I like how you try and use neuroscience to discredit medical science (which includes neuroscience).
    7. Ok. So. You provided no correlation to vaccines. 
    8. No, it is not a theory! A scientific theory is backed by evidence and you have provided none.
    9. You are defending your point by saying you can not defend or name what they actually do. Nice!
    10. Woah. You used a Neil DeGrasse Tyson paraphrase. He is a science guy and you flat Earthers hate him. False. We are taught how to find the right answer. In math class, we are taught how to do it. In my English class, we are taught how to actually apply multiple choice to real life. How to do great on multiple choice. Even if you do not realize it, the "weird way" (in which I always use) actually encompasses the method you are supposed to you use in school. It is not exactly the same though. 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @Pogue I adore NDT. He's mistaken about the Earth's shape but is a beautiful soul with incredible speeches.
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    @Pogue I adore NDT. He's mistaken about the Earth's shape but is a beautiful soul with incredible speeches.
    Ok. You are the first I have ever seen. You also ignore my entire counter-argument. 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame Why is it that when they inject you, you are not permitted to carry out a test to see what they put in? Or why can't you watch the process where they mix it?
    1. Because a vaccine is composed of either pieces of an infectious agent or an attenuated infectious agent. In both cases, medical and scientific professions are the only ones allowed to handle it, mainly because there's some danger in mishandling them, particularly if they're left at the wrong temperatures or injected without cleaning the injection site first. So allowing a random person to come into a hospital and walk out with a vial of vaccine presents a risk that would likely lead to massive legal battles due to the various safety hazards involved.

    2. Vaccines are usually not made in hospitals. You'd have to go to the facility where the manufacturing takes place. I've been to some of these facilities, and you usually can go in and watch as the vials are filled. But it seems like your main concern is what they're throwing in there and not how the manufacturing occurs, so I'm sure this doesn't provide you with any solace. What should provide you with some is that companies are required to provide an exhaustive list of the additives in their vaccines. 

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

    The FDA actually does test these to ensure that the formulation is consistent between batches, otherwise manufacturing facilities can be shut down for not complying with their basic rules.
    Pogue
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    Pogue said:
    @whiteflame Let me break this down for you:

    The people who 'rubber-stamp' or the equivalent the stickers and licences for the entire process allow mind-susceptibility drugs to be mixed in with the concoction that contains real vaccinations to real disease, yes it does.

    If you are naturally extroverted, gullible and/or agreeable (whichever term you prefer, really they are all psychologically similar), the smoother, less noticeable the effects are. 

    If you are towards the introverted, vigilant and/or argumentative end of teh spectrum you end up suffering from hypersensitivity in sensory aspects and your brain has to fight extremely hard against the urge to flow hormones into the other parts of the brain while it tries to keep its original thought and the neurone paths that are being slowly deteriorated (or at teh very least inhibited) by the butterfly effect drugs that controls the entire childhood development.

    So the very same sensitivity and susceptibility encouraging drugs react very differently based on the raw persona. It turns original thinkers into socially awkward hermits who have poor motor-neuron coordination due to the effort their brain is putting in taking away neurones form other parts to ptu it into the inhibited path of original self-produced thoughts.

    This is actually precisely going ot produce autism (if intelligent, high-functioning). 

    Sure, it's a theory and sure, I can't name the drugs. Just begin to question everything... Even doing that is hard on the brain... It takes real muscle-memory practise because of what they have done to us.

    We have an education system where 'kat' is treated equally wrong and as 'xqw' for a spelling of "cat" in a spelling bee. We are raised to only memorise right answers, never to learn how to bridge our way 'into the right answer'. Even math marks you down if you come up with a weird way to work it out that the marker can't easily follow in their A-B-C method.
    1. Do you have evidence they allow it through?
    2. Yes, vaccines give you the disease but in a dose that will not kill you.
    3. How does this happen? How do you know that if you are agreeable/gullible it will happen?
    4. I actually am very argumentative (I argue with people for the stupidest reasons) and this has never happened to me.
    5. How do you know that it is deteriorating? 
    6. I was awkward way before my vaccines. How does it turn people into that? Any actual evidence besides your guess? I like how you try and use neuroscience to discredit medical science (which includes neuroscience).
    7. Ok. So. You provided no correlation to vaccines. 
    8. No, it is not a theory! A scientific theory is backed by evidence and you have provided none.
    9. You are defending your point by saying you can not defend or name what they actually do. Nice!
    10. Woah. You used a Neil DeGrasse Tyson paraphrase. He is a science guy and you flat Earthers hate him. False. We are taught how to find the right answer. In math class, we are taught how to do it. In my English class, we are taught how to actually apply multiple choice to real life. How to do great on multiple choice. Even if you do not realize it, the "weird way" (in which I always use) actually encompasses the method you are supposed to you use in school. It is not exactly the same though. 
    To answer 1-9 you need permission to do something we currently are legally banned to look into (you are not allowed to investigate the actual production of the actual needle and substance that is injected into your ACTUAL CHILD)
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    Pogue said:
    2. Yes, vaccines give you the disease but in a dose that will not kill you.
    Actually, this is wrong. There is no vaccine that is meant to cause disease. Many vaccines only have proteins from a given pathogen and don't include any of the virulence factors that would actually cause disease. Some vaccines do use attenuated pathogens, which should not cause disease. Occasionally, reversion occurs and the pathogen becomes infectious, but those are rare events. What most people associate as diseases caused by vaccination is the immune response to the vaccine, which can sometimes look like a response to infection.


    Pogue
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    The issue is there's no option 3. You can't get unfettered vaccine. 
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    The issue is there's no option 3. You can't get unfettered vaccine. 
    ...What, exactly, is an "unfettered vaccine"?
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -   edited March 2018
    @whiteflame I want to make clear that you (I know you are in the industry there's no need to deny it) and many of your coworkers up to 98% are innocent, genuine scientists with the best of intents overall. Even the most evil, abusive parents at home among you still want to cure humanity with these injections that contain vaccines as part of them.

    You are not the con artists, you are not the criminals. Do not worry, you are free of sin in this but that doesn't mean it's not worth fighting and questioning.
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    Pogue said:
    2. Yes, vaccines give you the disease but in a dose that will not kill you.
    Actually, this is wrong. There is no vaccine that is meant to cause disease. Many vaccines only have proteins from a given pathogen and don't include any of the virulence factors that would actually cause disease. Some vaccines do use attenuated pathogens, which should not cause disease. Occasionally, reversion occurs and the pathogen becomes infectious, but those are rare events. What most people associate as diseases caused by vaccination is the immune response to the vaccine, which can sometimes look like a response to infection.


    Oh. I actually did not know that. Thank you for the information and I admit I was wrong. 
    whiteflame
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @Pogue Even if you were right, the fever is not the issue...
  • PoguePogue 584 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame I want to make clear that you (I know you are in the industry there's no need to deny it) and many of your coworkers up to 98% are innocent, genuine scientists with the best of intents overall. Even the most evil, abusive parents at home among you still want to cure humanity with these injections that contain vaccines as part of them.

    You are not the con artists, you are not the criminals. Do not worry, you are free of sin in this but that doesn't mean it's not worth fighting and questioning.
    He never said he was in the industry. He only said he was in the factories that they were being made. Why are they only 98% innocent?  What sin? These claims are irrelevant when you have provided no proof of what you are saying. 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain .” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame I want to make clear that you (I know you are in the industry there's no need to deny it) and many of your coworkers up to 98% are innocent, genuine scientists with the best of intents overall. Even the most evil, abusive parents at home among you still want to cure humanity with these injections that contain vaccines as part of them.

    You are not the con artists, you are not the criminals. Do not worry, you are free of sin in this but that doesn't mean it's not worth fighting and questioning.
    ...I'm a PhD student. I've co-founded a company since I've been on campus, but we work on food safety tech (detection). I have never worked for a drug company, let alone for a company that actually makes vaccines. I'm knowledgeable about how they work because a) I do my research, and b) much of my Master's work was in a program that was specifically meant to inform us of regulatory and manufacturing processes in biotech and pharmaceuticals. But hey, if it makes you feel better, go ahead and assume that I'm part of the industry. I'd certainly be better off financially if I was.

    If you want to question the safety and efficacy of these vaccines, that's up to you. You're welcome to question. But there's a difference between actively seeking out more information and deriving your own conclusions from lapses in your knowledge on the subject (or an unwillingness to accept the evidence you're presented with). There's also a difference between saying that you're uncertain or concerned and assuming that there are psychoactive drugs being emptied into medications that the vast majority of the US population take. Lastly, while you're welcome to seek out information, actively disseminating information with no basis in reality that could lead to many not vaccinating themselves or their children actually causes real harms to individuals who cannot protect themselves against the litany of diseases that we actually have vaccines against. It's the reason measles has resurged, and the harms of that are tangible and measurable. Your personal decision to fight against an invisible enemy doesn't outweigh that.
    Pogue
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -   edited March 2018
    @whiteflame Okay please do show me an investigation into vaccine authenticity. I will like to see CDC permit a single thing to be watched.

    Do you know CDC is owned by who? The Government. This sounds unimportant, it's not. If the government wants to use BIOLOGICAL WARFARE (if you think chemical weapons are the worst way to die... I don't want to get gory here but biological warfare can be so inhumane you will cry from even watching someone endure 3% of it (whereas with chemical warfare you need to see a good 15% before you cry for them)

    On top of weaponized diseases being a huge area of research within CDC, you need to know that I never was specific about America and I mocked Trump's reasoning (what reasoning? Exactly.). I supported Clinton because her style of corruption is sensible and net-benefits humanity more. I am not interested in America in particular but for some reason the whole world is. Vaccines are world-wide (or should be) the issue is transparency in the mixing process as well as the bottling process (the chemicals/drugs could come from inside what appears to be typical glass or plastic but really is something else)...
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame Okay please do show me an investigation into vaccine authenticity. I will like to see CDC permit a single thing to be watched.

    Do you know CDC is owned by who? The Government. This sounds unimportant, it's not. If the government wants to use BIOLOGICAL WARFARE (if you think chemical weapons are the worst way to die... I don't want to get gory here but biological warfare can be so inhumane you will cry from even watching someone endure 3% of it (whereas with chemical warfare you need to see a good 15% before you cry for them)

    On top of weaponized diseases being a huge area of research within CDC, you need to know that I never was specific about America and I mocked Trump's reasoning (what reasoning? Exactly.). I supported Clinton because her style of corruption is sensible and net-benefits humanity more. I am not interested in America in particular but for some reason the whole world is. Vaccines are world-wide (or should be) the issue is transparency in the mixing process as well as the bottling process (the chemicals/drugs could come from inside what appears to be typical glass or plastic but really is something else)...
    I could get you links to investigations into vaccine safety after something goes wrong. I could get you FDA procedures for checking GMP (Good Manufacturing Practice) facilities on the regular, including the audits they have to go through and what gets tested. I could get you examples of the testing processes for bringing new vaccines into practice, and the safety and efficacy tests that accompany those. I don't know if you're looking for more than that, but that seems like a lot already.

    I'm not sure why you keep referring to the CDC. The CDC is an organization that generally responds to outbreaks. They distribute vaccines when necessary, but they do not play a role in their manufacture or testing. Yes, it is the government that actually does it (usually through the FDA and NIH), and if you don't trust the government, then there's not much I can do for you. Just because the government has engineered biological weapons in the past doesn't mean it's using them on its citizens, but of course, you believe that to be the case. Honestly, though, if this is what you believe, then you believe in a much broader conspiracy than just "the government wants to control us." These aren't government labs making the vaccines. They're regulated by the government, but these are private facilities. All of them are in on this? At that point, how do you trust anything anyone makes? Why are vaccines special? If anything, I'd say vaccine manufacture has been so standardized for so long that it's one of the most transparent processes among drugs, but if you're unwilling to accept the information you're given, why trust any of our food or drink? Why trust any medication?
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame Okay please do show me an investigation into vaccine authenticity. I will like to see CDC permit a single thing to be watched.

    Do you know CDC is owned by who? The Government. This sounds unimportant, it's not. If the government wants to use BIOLOGICAL WARFARE (if you think chemical weapons are the worst way to die... I don't want to get gory here but biological warfare can be so inhumane you will cry from even watching someone endure 3% of it (whereas with chemical warfare you need to see a good 15% before you cry for them)

    On top of weaponized diseases being a huge area of research within CDC, you need to know that I never was specific about America and I mocked Trump's reasoning (what reasoning? Exactly.). I supported Clinton because her style of corruption is sensible and net-benefits humanity more. I am not interested in America in particular but for some reason the whole world is. Vaccines are world-wide (or should be) the issue is transparency in the mixing process as well as the bottling process (the chemicals/drugs could come from inside what appears to be typical glass or plastic but really is something else)...
    I could get you links to investigations into vaccine safety after something goes wrong. I could get you FDA procedures for checking GMP (Good Manufacturing Practice) facilities on the regular, including the audits they have to go through and what gets tested. I could get you examples of the testing processes for bringing new vaccines into practice, and the safety and efficacy tests that accompany those. I don't know if you're looking for more than that, but that seems like a lot already.

    I'm not sure why you keep referring to the CDC. The CDC is an organization that generally responds to outbreaks. They distribute vaccines when necessary, but they do not play a role in their manufacture or testing. Yes, it is the government that actually does it (usually through the FDA and NIH), and if you don't trust the government, then there's not much I can do for you. Just because the government has engineered biological weapons in the past doesn't mean it's using them on its citizens, but of course, you believe that to be the case. Honestly, though, if this is what you believe, then you believe in a much broader conspiracy than just "the government wants to control us." These aren't government labs making the vaccines. They're regulated by the government, but these are private facilities. All of them are in on this? At that point, how do you trust anything anyone makes? Why are vaccines special? If anything, I'd say vaccine manufacture has been so standardized for so long that it's one of the most transparent processes among drugs, but if you're unwilling to accept the information you're given, why trust any of our food or drink? Why trust any medication?
    Everybody NEEDS TO HAVE IT very EARLY IN LIFE.

    This, right there, is what makes it unique.
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    Everybody NEEDS TO HAVE IT very EARLY IN LIFE.

    This, right there, is what makes it unique.
    We need to have food and water early in life, far more so than any vaccine. Hell, we need them all our lives. And if that's the only thing that makes it unique, then it still doesn't explain how you'd trust that anything isn't tampered with. So much of what we depend on is regulated by the FDA and USDA. Every industry imaginable is regulated in some way by the government. Why trust any of it? If you honestly believe that they're inserting psychoactive drugs into our vaccines, which is a very bold claim that would require an extremely large conspiracy to be afoot, why wouldn't you believe that they're tampering with just about everything we hold dear? Why does the government care about this means of mind control, but everything else they leave alone?
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame Bloodstream.... digestive process... 
    whiteflame
  • someone234someone234 647 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame Everyone must have it.

    Only one company for all.
    whiteflame
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    @Pogue ;

    1) There is a stack of information online regarding this issue, if you can be bothered to read it.

    2) There is no actual proof that vaccines do cause autism disorders.

    3) There is no actual proof that vaccines do not cause autism disorders.

    4) It is widely regarded that vaccines may be associated with autism disorders. (Information freely available online)


    I have not for one minute, stated that there is an undeniable link between vaccines and autism.  


    Whereas, you continue to state unequivocally that there is no link between vaccines and autism.

    You have absolutely no way of unequivocally validating your statement.




    whiteflame
  • whiteflamewhiteflame 689 Pts   -  
    @whiteflame Bloodstream.... digestive process... 
    ...What? Why does that make the difference?
    @whiteflame Everyone must have it.

    Only one company for all.
    ...You do know that multiple companies produce vaccines, right? And, again, as far as must-haves go, vaccines are far from the top of the list. I really don't get your perspective on this at all.
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