Black men commit nearly half the murders in the U S ,why’s that ?

AmericanFurryBoy

Live in empoverished areas and want their money back when they loan/sell things. Will kill for it I guess?
ust saying a white matéis more likely to get shot by the police

someone234

Whites have better lawyers on average so the conviction of a white guy is much harder.

shadowCorbin

Let's get this out of the way, men commit most murders and are about 75% of all murder victims. The FBI website reports in the US of murder victims "50.4 percent were black, 47.0 percent were white, and 2.6 percent were of other races". Another thing to get out of the way is most people argument for this debate is either unreasonable or irrelevant, for example, whites having better lawyers has almost nothing to do with why blacks commit half the murders, and whites live in impoverished areas too and there are a lot more white males, but the impoverished areas alone don't get blacks to kill, and everyone wants their stuff back if they loan it and don't get it back. So, this is a complicated task, there are behavioural units totally devoted to figuring out questions like this. Trying to answer this question in one sitting is difficult so I will sum it up. Whites do normally come from higher income families which are less likely to commit crimes, but are more likely to have murders where a family member kills another. Since blacks are from lower income families, they are more likely to be involved in drugs and therefore gangs which of course have increased numbers in murders than people not in gangs. There are also many behavioral specifics I could get into, but once you are exposed to these problems, say a black boy sees or hears of a gang related murder in his neighbor murder it is like seeing murders in video games, at first it is weird, but pretty soon it gets normal, and unless you have consecutive generations of a lack of this mindset, the progress becomes like a train, you can stand in front of the train, but is gonna take a hell of a lot of people to stop it. Yes white people have better lawyers, but that has nothing to do with why blacks kill, if anything that makes white people more inclined to murder. Overall the fact that murders by blacks have become so common it makes much easier to murder if "Hey my friends killed twenty people, why don't I?" 

Vaulk

@shadowCorbin

You've got the right idea here and hit the nail on the head for the most part.  Something else I'd like add on if I may is the cultural differences that represent the largest disparity.  The White culture icons over the past 30 years have been pretty wacky but there's a fairly substantial lack in violent culture icons.  Can you think of a single White Culture Icon that represents Violence?  Tv, Music, Movies...anything?  Maybe Rambo...he's fairly violent but he's also portrayed as being justified while he does it...there's also no cultural celebration over Rambo's violent nature.

Now look at Black Cultural Icons.  Specifically let's look at Thug culture and how dominant it's been over the past 30 years.  Look at the celebration and overwhelming praise given to those who promote and glorify violent and degenerate behavior.  F$#% the police, treat Women like objects, the most important thing in life is getting paid and having respect, spending extravagantly defines your character...the list goes on and on.  Make sure you take advantage of drugs and using them is awesome.....

I happen to enjoy Rap and Hip-hop music...but unfortunately the staggering majority of Rap and Hip-hop music is centralized around generally bad behavior and the promotion of it.  Now I don't condone blaming music for anything...that's just not how we solve problems and shucking off responsibility makes things worse.  That being said...the two cultures and their staggering difference cannot be ignored.


https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5390075
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=4569665&page=1

someone234

@shadowCorbin whites have better lawyers who help them pin it on blacks or make it unsolved.

They tend to be richer. This is not a coincidence to their lawyer-quality.

Pogue

I would say it is because of United States' racist and oppressive history. Such as redlining and slavery. 

First, "Economic Factors Leading To Increased Crime Rate". We all know that "Economic prosperity serves as a backbone for the overall progress of a nation." "Poor economic condition is the root cause of so many problems that exist in a society." https://www.ukessays.com/essays/economics/economic-factors-leading-to-increased-crime-rate-economics-essay.php.

Redlining is what I will focus on here. I will use the following sources, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining, https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/the-racist-housing-policy-that-made-your-neighborhood/371439/, http://www.blackpast.org/aah/redlining-1937, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/28/evidence-that-banks-still-deny-black-borrowers-just-as-they-did-50-years-ago/?utm_term=.dda090b9d92d, and

Redling was a policy that lasted for decades that still affects us to this day.  During the time of FDR, and apart of the New Deal, the government created "color-coded" maps. In which green neighborhoods were good and red were bad. Because of these policies, if you lived in a green neighborhood it was very easy to get loans. In the red areas, it would be very hard and you got barely anything. These were the areas where black people and other minorities lived. The policy systematically prevented them from getting loans. 

Even the suburb developers (where some green neighborhoods were located) said that these areas were not allowed to be occupied by anyone but the Caucasian race. The US government encouraged this. 

The green areas got richer and richer so more industry came which made everyone richer. The result is that from 1934-1968 98% of home loans went to the green neighborhoods. The red neighborhoods got trapped and it was and is much harder for them to come out of poverty. 

So, to put everything together, the poverty and bad economic situation lead to more crime meaning they will commit more murders and crime. 

someone234

No @Pogue
If rich people kill poor people, easy to get away with. Opposite, impossible to get away with.

Pogue

someone234 said:

No @Pogue
If rich people kill poor people, easy to get away with. Opposite, impossible to get away with.

My argument is that because black people have harder economic situations because of racist policies, they need to commit more crime which is backed up by my link. 

someone234

You think a wig-wearing maniac hammering and saying 'ten years in Azkaban Prison' is definitely the truth that the person was guilty. Oh, I forgot, a jury full of people who voted Hillary because she's a woman and Trump because he's not Hillary is judging the guilt.

Pogue

someone234 said:

You think a wig-wearing maniac hammering and saying 'ten years in Azkaban Prison' is definitely the truth that the person was guilty. Oh, I forgot, a jury full of people who voted Hillary because she's a woman and Trump because he's not Hillary is judging the guilt.

The debate is about them being convicted. No. I do not think that. This debate is going off-course on what it was meant for. Actually, a lot of the Jury would not have voted. "Estimates show more than 58 percent of eligible voters went to the polls during the 2016 election"

someone234

@Pogue I do not care what the debate was meant for.

I care only of the truth.

Fascism

On a side note, affirmative action does nothing to solve this. It tries to force in equality by giving black people and other minorities a higher priority. It does nothing to solve the cycle of poverty the black community faces. If we focus on solving the core problems, then equality come on its own. 

MayCaesar

To understand why this is the case, let us go back to the Dark Ages, to the times of feudalism in Europe. There existed a vertical structure in the society, with masters and vassals. Every individual, save the king and the beggar, had someone they had to serve and someone who had to serve them. All the wealth was concentrated in the narrow aristocratic upper class, while the majority of people worked hard 10-12 hours every day to produce enough goods to pay off the outrageous taxes.

Where was the crime the biggest, in the upper classes or in the lower classes? The answer is obvious. Dirty peasants and craftsmen who could barely feed their families did not have any future to look forward to, they had nothing to lose. The criminal culture was rising from these factors. While the aristocrats spent all time having fun on parties or enjoying art galleries, the near-starving plebs were looking for ways to make their lives a little bit less miserable and hopeless and took on criminal activities, starting with simple bribes and going all the way up to waging gang wars for the sparse goods looted from slaughtered merchants and nobles.

Eventually, feudalism collapsed and gave way to a more horizontal structure, where most people had a chance to gain a lot of wealth by legitimate means. Did people immediately jump to that opportunity though? Of course not. Centuries of boiling at the bottom of the pot, looking for every possible opportunity to get a tiny bit richer or to vent one's frustration through violence, as well as the fact that collapse of feudalism didn't magically redistribute the societal wealth equally and the poor still remained poor - made sure that the problem of crime at the bottom was perpetuated.

---

It is no different in the US with the black population. For the vast majority of American history, blacks were either slaves, or, at least, a heavily discriminated extremely poor group. Civil right movements in 60-s and 70-s changed the legal status quo, and by now, I would say, the societal biases have always changed significantly and racism is not as prevalent in the society any more - however, you cannot undo the centuries of conditioning in a few decades. The crime rates among the black population are so much higher not because of their race in itself, but because of where history led them to. People whose parents grew up in segregation, where crime was widespread, are not going to be able to break off that lifestyle easily. A long period of time is required for the created opportunities to erase the shameful past, and until then that past will always influence the decision-making process of the affected social groups.

Vaulk

@Pogue

I happen to love that episode of Adam Ruins Everything.  Take a guess at which political party was responsible for the creation of Redlining.

blamonkey

I have significant issues with the statistics at hand. For one thing, how do we necessarily know that every black person convicted of a crime is necessarily guilty? It is well documented that people belonging to the minority in the US have less resources. The Pew Research Center elaborates, showing that black Americans make less per hour compared to white Americans even when accounting for educational attainment (1).

In fact, the pay gap for black Americans is growing. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 1979, black men typically earned 80% of what a white man earned. In 2016, the gap widened to black men earning 70% of what a white man earns (2). The lack of resources has a lot to do with my skepticism regarding the outcome of so many murder cases as it leads to them relying on public defenders for representation in court. A local news station in Idaho reported on a draft study by the Idaho Public Defense Commission which found that public defenders in Idaho have only 4 hours on each felony case despite estimating a necessary 38 hours to provide effective legal counsel. Private attorneys surveyed reported a necessary 68 hours on each felony case (3). This is not a problem isolated to Idaho either, as the American Bar Assoc. created a report that highlights this issue and found that low pay, excessive reliance on plea deals due to inexperienced lawyering, and massive caseloads pervade through the entirety of the country’s public defenders. (4) With limited money available, is it any wonder why many black people are found guilty regardless of the truth? They are forced to rely on sub-par lawyers as opposed to private sector employees who demand higher pay for higher quality service. In fact, the comparison of wrongly convicted white and black defendants is quantified by the University of Michigan when they find:

“…innocent black people are about seven times more likely to be convicted of murder than innocent white people (5).”

 The report goes further, exposing internal corruption within many of these murder trials due to misconduct of the police. Witness tampering, for instance, occurred in 21% of murder exonerations with white defendants but in 39% of those with black defendants (5). Of course, we know about this official misconduct, and many are released after this information comes to light. Take the case of Henry McCollum and Leon Brown, 2 people who were accused of raping and killing 11-year-old Sabrina Buie. Both were intellectually disabled and confessed under pressure from police while there was no physical evidence linking them to the crime scene. It wasn’t until 2010 when it was found that a cigarette butt at the scene of the crime matched the profile of Roscoe Artis, a proven serial murderer who was executed for raping and killing an 18 year old in the same county about a month after McCollum and Brown confessed. Not only was Artis a suspect in the original case, but:

 “…police had asked the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigations to compare the fingerprints found on beer cans at the crime to those of Artis—but they hid that request from the defense. The authorities also concealed the fact that a witness who testified at trial that McCollum and Brown had admitted to the murder, had not only previously denied knowing anything about the case, but had taken a lie detector test that confirmed his denial (5).”

This is not even accounting for implicit biases that would affect those on the jury who have a final say over someone’s guilt. The APA conducted a study which asked participants to look at phots of young black and white athletes. White participants and black participants alike believed, despite the athletes being shown to have similar builds, that black athletes were more muscular and physically imposing (6). This sort of bias is going to change the subjective perception of the defendant, resulting in convictions based on nothing more than looks. This is one of the reasons people use to justify why more white defendants are likely to be dismissed of charges because they have had their crimes adjudicated as “justifiable homicide.” This is showcased by The Marshall Project in 2017, where they find:

“In almost 17 percent of cases when a black man was killed by a non-Hispanic white civilian over the last three decades, the killing was categorized as justifiable, which is the term used when a police officer or a civilian kills someone committing a crime or in self-defense. Overall, the police classify fewer than 2 percent of homicides committed by civilians as justifiable. The disparity persists across different cities, different ages, different weapons and different relationships between killer and victim.”

People may not even know that they perceive black people differently. After all, the idea of prejudice is considered taboo in American society. As a result, this goes unaddressed and people are convicted on dubious charges spawning from nothing but appearances.

Ergo, we cannot necessarily guarantee that the current statistics regarding homicides committed by black people are accurate. The lack of representation coupled with disproportionate misconduct issues and implicit biases put a damper on any official statistics regarding homicide. This is not to completely disregard the statistics at hand. I am not the type of person to follow the mantra of "if I do not agree with it, then it must be fake news." Rather, I am considering whether these statistics tell the full story. It would be a shame for people to come to the completely illogical conclusion that black people are necessarily more violent and ignore other factors at play.

1. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/01/racial-gender-wage-gaps-persist-in-u-s-despite-some-progress/

2. https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2017/beyond-bls/the-unexplainable-growing-black-white-wage-gap.htm

3. https://www.kpvi.com/news/local_news/idaho-public-defenders-get-just-hours-a-case/article_8aa51f5c-110e-11e8-bce1-230f5abe5204.html

4.https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_aid_indigent_defendants/ls_sclaid_def_bp_right_to_counsel_in_criminal_proceedings.authcheckdam.pdf

5. https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/Race_and_Wrongful_Convictions.pdf

6. http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-pspi0000092.pdf

 

 

GatMan

I think the glorification of the "street life"/"gang life" is influencing some of the people too. Growing up, I was told about how whites wouldn't want me to be great, whites were always pulling something in the shadows to be above me, a black male in America. I believed it to an extent. I grew a mindset that no matter how hard I worked for what I wanted and what I wanted to BE, I was always gonna be below a white person in this country, and that made me have a, "Oh well, screw it, not like I'll be able to do it" mindset. I just didn't care, doing illegal things for money was more appealing than working hard and earning it in the honest fashion. Rap music that glorified the streets and murder was all I heard, I lived on the side of town called the ghetto, you could smell weed walking down the street, you couldn't walk down certain roads because you knew, someone was armed, they were in a gang. It was easier to be the next gang banger with this type of mindset, it was easier to commit a crime because you were brainwashed to thinking some white man was stopping you from being great. Ultimately, it's about what you're brought up around, I hope those that are currently in that upbringing and mindset can break out of it.

Mr_Bombastic

@Dee
The irony is that most of the victims are also black. Liberals complain about the miniscule number of blacks shot by police, yet completely ignore the fact that most blacks are killed by other blacks. Where's the outrage?

MayCaesar

@GatMan

I read an interesting post on Quora from a black woman who lived in Canada and visited the US on a business trip. She was shocked by how different black communities operated in the US compared to Canada, and even how people treated her. In Canada, she says, your skin color is not very important, and blacks in general act and think the same way as everyone else. However, in the US she encountered a very prejudiced attitude from people who expected her to speak "Ebonics" and were not ready to see an intelligently well-spoken business-lady, and speaking to other black people and seeing their communities, she understood why, because they were nothing like what she was used to. She could not relate to them, she did not understand their customs, and even their language seemed bizarre to her.

In a way, it is a self-perpetuating cycle in the US: people expect blacks to behave a certain way, blacks see this as discrimination and behave a certain way to respond to this discrimination, which confirms people's biases and perpetuates their expectations... There needs to be a coordinated effort from the society made to eliminate the racial boundaries, and it has to come from both sides.

NKJVPrewrather

I am not a liberal, but that is racist.

GatMan

@MayCaesar

What are the racial boundaries? That's an interesting story too, I understand people expect blacks to act a certain way too. I've had that thought in the back of my head at times, I use to use the n word 24/7, I use to sag a little, I use to blast that music into my ears that made you "hard" and glorified the streets. I understand it 100%. As I grew older I understood that the type of person I was wasn't for me in the long run. I think regardless of how people expect blacks to behave and act, blacks can do much more better. I'm just pin pointing the streets part of it though since I grew up on the ghetto side of town. 

Bogan

The reason why black African people are very much over represented in welfare dependency and violent criminal behaviour is so simple that even a Densa can understand it.     Black Africans have a measured IQ of around 70- 85, and they almost certainly have a genetic predisposition to very violent behaviour.

The idea that the reason why black Africans are dysfunctional is because US society is racist is pure bunkum.    All black African countries are economic basket cases holding out the begging bowl to the rest of the world.    NO CRT in Equatorial Guinea or Uganda.    And black African men are very disproportionately represented in incarceration statistics in every western country that they inhabit.    They are disproportionately represented in France.    London was almost crime free before the importation of black Africans, but now it's homicide rate is similar to New York's.   Here in Australia, black Africans were treated like royalty from the start to display to the world how creditably anti racist Australia was.     The Federal government went around purchasing hundreds of houses from commercial real estate agents and renting them very cheaply them to black Africans, who paid the rent with their welfare cheques.   .   They then gave each family AUS$15,000 dollars to buy furniture and whitegoods.  Please note, this was for black Africans and not white ones from South Africa or Rhodesia.  White people can go suck an egg.      Almost immediately, Australia was hit by a crime wave committed by black Africans.   

There were so many violent home invasions caused by black Africans in Melbourne that it became impossible for a man to purchase a baseball bat to defend his own family in his own home.  One black African was jailed and then deported after he raped four Australian women after only three days of getting off the airplane.     State and federal governments reacted to this African crime wave the way all "progressive" humanitarian governments do when faced with an inconvenient reality.    They lied about it.   Like AOC's denial of widespread looting of stores in democrat cities,  they claimed that it was no problem.   But when TV scenes showed thousands of black African men rampaging through the streets of the Melbourne CBD, smashing cars, looting shops, and frightening the wits out of restaurant patrons, the socialist Victorian government reacted as lying socialists always do.    They lied again.    Their Police Commissioner, a political appointee who was picked for the job because she was not a male, claimed that 'African" crime rates were not much higher than anyone else in society.   She did that by mixing white African crime statistics (which were probably non existent) with black African crime rates to get the desired outcome. 

Einstein once famously opined that the best definition of insanity was "doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different outcome".      The western world persists in thinking that all races are equal, and when they try it once again and it fails once again, they still look for excuses instead of focusing on the real issue.

Barnardot

I bet that you would commit half the murders if you were only given half a chance in life. @Dee

Bogan

Another well reasoned and exhaustively researched post by Barnadot.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Are You Serious?

@Vaulk asked
Can you think of a single White Culture Icon that represents Violence?

There are many:

Beatrix Kiddo: The Kill Bill Franchise
Ellen Ripley: Alien Franchise
John Wick: The John Wick Franchise
Dutch: Predator
King Leonidas: 300
Forrest Bondurant: Lawless
Imperator Furiosa: Mad Max: Fury Road
Tommy DeVito: Goodfellas
James Bond: 007 Franchise
Rooster Cogburn: True Grit
Colonel Miles Quaritch: Avatar
Tyler Durden: Fight Club
Katniss Everdeen: The Hunger Games
Han Solo: The Star Wars Franchise
Bryan Mills: The Taken Franchise
Sarah Connor: Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Maximus Decimus Meridius: Gladiator
...and, of course, Dirty Harry

Barnardot

That’s because I made a wity comment and yours was sarcastic which is wit but it is the lowest form because you know what I said is true and you can’t argue against that. @Bogan

Dee

@Barnardot

I bet that you would commit half the murders if you were only given half a chance in life. 

You got that wrong I have never knowingly killed anther living creature 

Barnardot

That’s probably because you got more than half a chance in life.@Dee

Dee

@Barnardot

That’s probably because you got more than half a chance in life.

Really ? So if life gives you hard breaks it’s an excuse to kill others?

Barnardot

No but thats nothing to do with having half a chance. Those guys dont even get any brakes at all because they get treated like skim all their lives and even then its not an excuse it is the reason why they do it.  @Dee

MayCaesar

GatMan said:

@MayCaesar

What are the racial boundaries? That's an interesting story too, I understand people expect blacks to act a certain way too. I've had that thought in the back of my head at times, I use to use the n word 24/7, I use to sag a little, I use to blast that music into my ears that made you "hard" and glorified the streets. I understand it 100%. As I grew older I understood that the type of person I was wasn't for me in the long run. I think regardless of how people expect blacks to behave and act, blacks can do much more better. I'm just pin pointing the streets part of it though since I grew up on the ghetto side of town. 

I think that is all comes down to the old good conformity versus individuality split. Some people are naturally more conformist: they value fitting in the group they happen to associate with, either by choice or by chance, and they imitate the behaviors of its other members, as they see it as the most natural path towards acceptance - and if there is some cultural element in that group that works against its members, they will adopt it too. Other people are more individualist: they prefer to have their own mind on everything and are not as afraid of some members of the group (or even all) rejecting them, believing that the individual freedom they obtain this way trumps the negative consequences of rejection.

Take something like the "gang rap". I am not sure how many people listen to it genuinely because this is the kind of music that aligns with their "soul", for the lack of the better world. Even if it did, there would be no reason to blast it from the car dynamics at the near-pain-inducing volume, would it? Most people who do it most likely do it because in their group it is considered "cool". On the other hand, say, listening to instrumental jazz is not "cool".
A less conformist person will listen to whatever they genuinely like, and if others in their group do not like the same type of music, they will be fine with it.

Different people find themselves in different environments. In the US the "Black culture" is much more prominent and isolated from other cultures than, say, in Canada or Australia. This, of course, makes those who live in respective environments more prone to being dragged into it, more incentivized to conform with it. Still, at the end of the day, everyone has a choice in how to act.

excon

Dee said:

Black men commit nearly half the murders in the U S ,why’s that ?

Hello Dee:

When you compare 400 years of brutal slavery, combined with 150 years of Jim Crow, which continues to this day, you'd wonder how come MORE white people don't get murdered..

I say that as a Jewish man who's people were put into concentration camps...  Had that been ME, I'da joined a militia and slaughtered any and every German I came across..  The two aren't comparable, of course, but it might give you some context. 

Or, if you think slavery is behind us, and it has no effect on the black people of today, you're living in a dreamworld. 

If you doubt that Jim Crow continues, ask yourself why the right wing state legislature eliminated all by ONE polling place in Lincoln County Georgia, a large, mostly black county, with no public transportation.

https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/news/2021/12/21/lincoln-county-attempts-eliminate-six-polling-places/8970073002/

excon

Barnardot

Yes you are right on with what you say. About the blacks because they were treated so poorly and Jim Crow must have been real bad to do all that to the blacks in fact today he would be put in prison over what he did. And even today they are carrying that burdon which is why they want to kill people instead of talking to them.@excon

Dee

@excon

Hello Ex :

When you compare 400 years of brutal slavery, combined with 150 years of Jim Crow, which continues to this day, you'd wonder how come MORE white people don't get murdered..

I often wonder about my own people who came to the US during the Irish famine and were treated appallingly by Americans mostly because they were Catholic and poor , they lived in the worst slums in the US yet they got on and today are in every profession one can name in the US , remember this is after coming from a country where they were second class citizens under the Brits . I don’t really buy  the excuse that blacks are somehow “entitled “ to such behaviour because of past transgressions 

A sizable amount of American blacks ( and growing) refuse to accept this narritive , a whole conversation needs to be had in the US regards this topic among blacks , parents are responsible for rearing their children no matter how bad circumstances are 

It seems like criminality can be excused on account of the past , we can do better than this , your own people the Jews went through appalling suffering also yet they thrive , right?

I say that as a Jewish man who's people were put into concentration camps...  Had that been ME, I'da joined a militia and slaughtered any and every German I came across..  The two aren't comparable, of course, but it might give you some context.  

I’m with you regards joining a militia at times it’s makes total sense , but why this appalling violence amongst blacks in the US remember most it black on black violence which is now  getting at whites in any way 

Or, if you think slavery is behind us, and it has no effect on the black people of today, you're living in a dreamworld.  

Please expand on that ? Slavery is a loosely thrown about term nowadays and bears absolutely no realationship to slavery of times past 

excon

Dee said:

I don’t really buy  the excuse that blacks are somehow “entitled “ to such behaviour because of past transgressions 

Please expand on that ? Slavery is a loosely thrown about term nowadays and bears absolutely no realationship to slavery of times past 

Hello Dee:

If these transgressions were indeed in the past, I'd agree with you..  But, they're NOT.  I remind you again about the situation in Georgia..  Yes, they're not lynching black people, but they're not letting them vote either..  It's NOT slavery, but it's NOT freedom either.

If you understood what I said about joining a militia, I would have done it long before the murdering started.  These days here in America, the quiet racism known as Jim Crow is very much alive, and very similar, in terms of the Jews, to Germany in the 30's.  If we don't finally STOP it, it's not gonna bode well for us.

Now, I suppose you can deny it's existence, but I dunno how.  You remember a fella named Antrim, don't you??  He ran a business..  Do you think he would have hired a black person?  NO!  Do you think he would rent to a black person?  NO!  Do you think he has black people over for dinner?  NO!  Do you think he supports the law in Georgia where black people are not invited to participate??  YES!

excon

Dee

@excon

Hi Ex….

I remember Antrim alright kinda hard to forget. He told me in the past he had a black business partner and things went badly as in he got burned by the guy in business so that’s where that anger comes from 

In fairness can you address the points I made?

excon

Dee said:

@excon

In fairness can you address the points I made?

~~~~~~~~~

I don’t really buy  the excuse that blacks are somehow “entitled “ to such behaviour because of past transgressions

Hello again, Dee:

I thought I did with the exception of the above..

I don't think black people think they're "entitled" when they pull the trigger..  I think it's anger..  Anger at a system that's NEVER, NEVER, and did I say NEVER, accepted him.  And, not only that, made laws like the one in Georgia, to spit in his face, and show those uppity blacks just WHO'S in charge. 

Look..  As Jews, we don't get refused housing.. We don't get refused jobs..  For the time being at least, we're not barred from the ballot box.  And that's because we are members of the power elite..  It was not always thus.  But, do I think we've EVER, EVER, and did I say EVER, been accepted??

We've debated before..  My hatred for the Nazis, and by extension, the German people, has not subsided over the years..  If I recall, you didn't understand it, and I don't think you understand a black man's hatred today. 

excon

Dee

@excon

My hatred for the Nazis, and by extension, the German people, has not subsided over the years..  If I recall, you didn't understand it, and I don't think you understand a black man's hatred today.  

I don’t get hatred of all Germans to be honest , nor hatred of all whites by blacks it solves nothing.

Blacks may be angry and may be justified but they are slaughtering other blacks mainly so their anger is nothing yo do with past transgressions right? 

excon

Dee said:

@excon

I don’t get hatred of all Germans to be honest , nor hatred of all whites by blacks it solves nothing.

Blacks may be angry and may be justified but they are slaughtering other blacks mainly so their anger is nothing yo do with past transgressions right? 

Hello again, Dee:

Hatred doesn't bust out in logical ways..  Rioters burn down their own neighborhood..  You can't find logic in that..  It's the SYSTEM of oppression that p-isses 'em off.  They don't hate white people, or the Korean guy who's store they just burnt down..  They certainly don't hate black people.  If they could, would they rather burn down the congressman's house??  You betcha, but the dumpster is right there, and the congressman lives in the suburbs. 

To be fair, would you address the Georgia voter suppression law that's at the HEART of this discussion?

excon

Dee

@excon

Hello again Ex …..


To be fair, would you address the Georgia voter suppression law that's at the HEART of this discussion?

But I was addressing the topic as written you’re the first to mention the “suppression law” which is a whole other debate 

excon

Dee said:

@excon

But I was addressing the topic as written you’re the first to mention the “suppression law” which is a whole other debate 

Hello again, Dee:

True..  Nonetheless, you could answer..  I don't think the OP will ban you.  Oh, that's right.. You're the OP, and you can conduct your debate any way you wanna..  No?

So, you see no link  between voter suppression and black anger??  Okee doakee..

And, while we're at it, what DO you call a law that eliminates ALL but one polling place in a large, very black, and very poor county in Georgia, with NO public transportation..  And, if you deny it's voter suppression when it clearly IS, don't you think your denial might give cause for black anger??

excon

Dee

@excon

Hello Ex…..

But the point I’m making is black people kill more black people in America by a long shot than anyone else 
this has nothing to do with the why’s

excon

Dee said:

@excon

But the point I’m making is black people kill more black people in America by a long shot than anyone else..  this has nothing to do with the why’s

Hello again, Dee:

But, it does have to do with "why's that", or you wouldn't have asked why's that in your OP.  So, I'm giving you a WHY'S THAT..

Look.  If my team passed a voter suppression law that was SO obviously voter suppression, I wouldn't want to discuss it either..

excon

MayCaesar

excon said:

We've debated before..  My hatred for the Nazis, and by extension, the German people, has not subsided over the years..  If I recall, you didn't understand it, and I don't think you understand a black man's hatred today. 

This kind of feelings is perfectly understandable... and perfectly irrational and harmful to everyone, especially the person experiencing it. Hating all Germans for the crimes of a minority of their ancestors almost a century ago - if this is the kind of thing black people in the US are experiencing, then it is no wonder that their communities are so broken up. And they have only themselves to blame for it, if that is really the case.

The feeling of hatred is not random; it is a result of a very irrational outlook on reality. I do not harbor such feelings towards any group of people, despite my ancestors having suffered greatly under the communist dictatorship, with some of my family members purged by that system. The past is the past: if my actions were in any way guided by what happened in Russia 80 years ago, my life would be a complete wreck. Anyone has a choice not to let their life degenerate to that point.

You may think that you are justifying the actions of the "oppressed" people, but your argument actually does the opposite. It, if it is true, explains that these people majorly have themselves to blame for their statistically inferior life outcomes. What happened to their ancestors is not up to them to decide, but it is up to them to decide how to process that information, and, from your argument, it follows that they have decided very poorly.

Bogan

Here in Australia, there is no history of slavery with African blacks.    African blacks started to get imported into Australia about 25 years ago and hardly surprisingly, despite very generous welfare directed at them , they are already a serious crime problem.     The New England area of Australia is a beautiful region.    One of it's towns is Armadale, a town so peaceful and safe that it is a very popular tourist destination.    The socialist Labor Party which wants to culturally enrich Australia with black African culture, sent seven black African families to this lovely town.    Despite the federal government providing very nice houses for these people arranging with businesses to get them jobs, straight away, they became a serious crime problem.    This included a murder where one black African murdered another.    The problem got so bad that the Mayor of Armidale demanded that the Federal government send no more black Africans to Armidale.

Unfortunately, and i say this with sadness, most black Africans are just not smart enough to prosper in a white, western society where competition and meritocracy is the key to success.     That does not mean that all Africans are .    There are smart blacks who do quite well in western societies, but unfortunately, they are very much in the minority.    These smart blacks get on just fine with their white and Asian neighbors.   As a matter of fact, I have even heard about a suburb in Los Angeles which was created entirely for black African doctors, lawyers and other professionals (sorry, I forgot it's name)    It was considered such a peaceful and law abiding suburb that even whites and Asians started moving in.     It is all about IQ and genetics.     Ghetto blacks are as dumb as d-o-g-s-h-i-t  and they are genetically extremely violent.      

Bogan

Here in Australia, there is no history of slavery with African blacks.    African blacks started to get imported into Australia about 25 years ago and hardly surprisingly, despite very generous welfare directed at them , they are already a serious crime problem.     The New England area of Australia is a beautiful region.    One of it's towns is Armadale, a town so peaceful and safe that it is a very popular tourist destination.    The socialist Labor Party which wants to culturally enrich Australia with black African culture, sent seven black African families to this lovely town.    Despite the federal government providing very nice houses for these people arranging with businesses to get them jobs, straight away, they became a serious crime problem.    This included a murder where one black African murdered another.    The problem got so bad that the Mayor of Armidale demanded that the Federal government send no more black Africans to Armidale.

Unfortunately, and i say this with sadness, most black Africans are just not smart enough to prosper in a white, western society where competition and meritocracy is the key to success.     That does not mean that all Africans are .    There are smart blacks who do quite well in western societies, but unfortunately, they are very much in the minority.    These smart blacks get on just fine with their white and Asian neighbors.   As a matter of fact, I have even heard about a suburb in Los Angeles which was created entirely for black African doctors, lawyers and other professionals (sorry, I forgot it's name)    It was considered such a peaceful and law abiding suburb that even whites and Asians started moving in.     It is all about IQ and genetics.     Ghetto blacks are as dumb as d-o-g-s-h-i-t  and they are genetically extremely violent.   

excon

MayCaesar said:

And, perfectly irrational and harmful to everyone, especially the person experiencing it.

You may think that you are justifying the actions of the "oppressed" people, but your argument actually does the opposite.

Hello May:

Yes..  Hatred is irrational.  Yet, I hate.  Not looking to justify it.  Not apologizing for it.  Just reporting what's going on with me, and pointing out the corollary that black people might, irrationally as it may be, hate their oppressors too.  

Look...  If I were black, and my slave owners really did feel sorry for enslaving my people, I might forgive them.   But, since Jim Crow took over where slavery left off, I ain't gonna forgive them at all, and rightfully so..  To wit:  Voter suppression is Jim Crow on steroids, and Georgia just eliminated ALL but ONE polling place in Lincoln County Georgia, a large, mostly black county, with no public transportation?

https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/news/2021/12/21/lincoln-county-attempts-eliminate-six-polling-places/8970073002/

Speaking of justifications, how do you justify that?

Seriously..

excon

MayCaesar

@excon

If there is something problematic with this change, then it should be criticized and opposed. It does not warrant holding people that had nothing to do with the events of the past responsible for their consequences.

If some black person hates me for having the same skin color as that of some slaver from 160 years back, then all I can say to them is, "Good luck". Sounds like a great way to live one's life, to hate complete strangers over some random and loose group associations. A way that is easily fixable through some basic introspection.

For that matter, is that not what the National-Socialist system was about? "You belong to the wrong group, so you are inferior, and we must take action against you". There is a saying: it is insanity to do the same thing and expect a different outcome. Perfectly applicable here.

excon

MayCaesar said:

@excon

If there is something problematic with this change, then it should be criticized and opposed It does not warrant holding people that had nothing to do with the events of the past responsible for their consequences.

Hello again, May:

Nahh...  My hate is my business..  I'll have it if I choose.  It does not require me to do or say anything to anybody..  Yes, I hate Germans.  But, none of the ones I've ever met knows that..  My thoughts are my own  Toward that end, I'll hold whomever I wish to hold, responsible for whatever I wish them to be.  As long as I don't DO anything about it, it remains my private business.   And, it's fine with me if you're not pleased with that..  I'm not here to be liked by you..

Is all that to say black people should be thankful that they got freed?   That they should harbor NO ill feelings for their oppressors??  Clearly, you don't think the voter suppression law in Georgia IS voter suppression, so the anger the blacks harbor regarding it, is misplaced..

Du-de.

excon

MayCaesar

@excon

I have never said otherwise. What you feel and why is, indeed, your business. What I am saying is that such feelings lead to poor actions and outcomes, and if a large group of people collectively partakes in them and does nothing to change them, then they will find themselves in quite a predicament.

I think that anger regarding anything is misplaced. If there is a problem, either it is to be solved, or accepted; dwelling on it and harboring negative feelings about it serves no practical purpose. Again, people are free to do so if they like, but then they should not wonder why the crime rates in their communities are sky-high, and the incomes are at the bottom of the barrel. This tends to happen when, instead of moving forward and building something, you sit in the past and wait for others to fix up your life.

Bogan

"Oppressors'?       In WW2 the Japanese did the most horrendous things to allied people.    They captured 32 Australian nurses and after gang raping them all they made them walk into the sea where thy were machine gunned to death.   Japanese soldiers walked into hospitals in Singapore and shot dead allied soldier patients in their beds before gang raping the British nurses.       The Japanese armed forces acted with a brutality not seen since the days of Ghengis Khan.     But do I despise today's Japanese?    Of course not.       The sins of the father are not going to be visited on their children, their grandchildren, or their great grandchildren.

One reason I became a racist was because of the opinions of Jewish kids at my high school.    To begin with, they seemed to despise Australian kids.   Not all of them, just most of them.   They were very clannish and insular, and seemed to delight in sneering at Australian values.    Hardly a formulae for making themselves popular.    They went on and on about racism, but when I pointed out that Israel was a Jewish state, set up for Jews only, they went a bit quiet.      The Jewish people who have suffered more than any people in history because of racism, got smart and realised that they had to get racist themselves to survive.

Most African blacks survive entirely on the white dole.     Like in Rhodesia, without white people to pay their welfare most of them would starve to death.   And then they come out with this "oppressor:" B-S and then we get a Jew agreeing with them.    If you wonder why Jews have a popularity problem in the west, excon, look at your own opinions.