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White privilege is not real

Opening Argument

Some people think modern American society confers a special advantage upon white people, I don't think so. Change my mind.
with_all_humilityBaconToes



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Arguments

  • FascismFascism 284 Pts
    edited April 8
    If you are white you are more likely to be born into a richer family, while if you are black you are more likely to be born into poverty. 

    That is the only thing I can think of. 
    PogueVarrack
  • There is no such thing as white privilege, we are all rewarded based on our own merits.  White privilege is a myth.
    Pogue
  • It's all white privilege until you're a white male in the bedroom with a big black stallion by your side...
    with_all_humilityBaconToes
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • White privilege is a society concept our generation has been taught from birth. There is no debate that it doesn't exist. To believe it doesn't exist is an ignorant thought but necessarily a bad thought. Everyone has experienced a range of different cultural prejudice. Reverse racism does exist but because of the USA's history with slavery, segregation and everything in between, it is clear that white privilege is a fact not a belief. A child born in Alabama and another born in New York city will experience different white privilege in their lives. Whether one is white, hispanic, asian, etc.. everyone will encounter some type of white privilege. It could be acted towards or given to. The USA's government and many other work fields such as business and engineering are white male dominated. This is rapidly changing and hopefully will change for the better. According to the New York times, 80% of congress is male protestant. Our government does not demographically reflect its citizens. This should be considered an issue when it comes to topics such as immigration and welfare. It is always better to have many perspectives on an issue rather than one. Overall, it is clear white privilege is obviously real but you may not see it right now in your life. That may not be your fault but I guide you to open your perspective. 
  • @aortizcazarin18 so it would be considered “race privilege”. I don’t believe any if this exists. I just dont see it. At school we are all struggling and have our own problems. I dont see any one race benefited more than any other. It goes to the individual. Not the whole.
  • PoguePogue 472 Pts
    edited April 15
    White- belonging to or denoting a human group having light-colored skin (chiefly used of peoples of European extraction).
    Privilege- an advantage available only to a particular person or group of people.
    Real- actually existing

    Yes, it does exist. However, some white people do not experience it. The majority do, however. I say this because of United States' racist and oppressive history. Such as redlining and slavery. 

    Redlining is what I will focus on here. I will use the following sources, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining, https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/the-racist-housing-policy-that-made-your-neighborhood/371439/, http://www.blackpast.org/aah/redlining-1937, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/28/evidence-that-banks-still-deny-black-borrowers-just-as-they-did-50-years-ago/?utm_term=.dda090b9d92d, and https://www.youube.com/watch?v=ETR9qrVS17. ;

    Redling was a policy that lasted for decades that still affects us to this day.  During the time of FDR, and apart of the New Deal, the government created "color-coded" maps. In which green neighborhoods were good and red were bad. Because of these policies, if you lived in a green neighborhood it was very easy to get loans. In the red areas, it would be very hard and you got barely anything. These were the areas where black people and other minorities lived. The policy systematically prevented them from getting loans. 

    Even the suburb developers (where some green neighborhoods were located) said that these areas were not allowed to be occupied by anyone but the Caucasian race. The US government encouraged this. 

    The green areas got richer and richer so more industry came which made everyone richer. The result is that from 1934-1968 98% of home loans went to the green neighborhoods. The red neighborhoods got trapped and it was and is much harder for them to come out of poverty. 

    So, yes it is a real thing. Even though the policy ended, it still affects us. This means white privagle exists. 

    As @Fascism said, it is that "If you are white you are more likely to be born into a richer family, while if you are black you are more likely to be born into poverty."
    FascismBaconToes
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @someone234 but I said "modern American society," like right now, not in the past. So tell me, what specific advantages do white people have?
  • @AmericanFurryBoy so how does that policy still affect us?
  • PoguePogue 472 Pts
    @funperson
    What about my argument? Is that going ignored? 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @Pogue My bad haha, the reply I sent to Americanfurryboy was supposed to go to you.
  • PoguePogue 472 Pts
    @funperson Ok.
    Ha, that's funny. Ok, I will answer that. Because of this policy, white people are much more wealthy. They can easily pass down the money and advantages. However, minority communities can't. They cannot do that because they do not have these advantages. Many of the "red" areas still face poverty to this day. 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Pogue said:
    @funperson Ok.
    Ha, that's funny. Ok, I will answer that. Because of this policy, white people are much more wealthy. They can easily pass down the money and advantages. However, minority communities can't. They cannot do that because they do not have these advantages. Many of the "red" areas still face poverty to this day. 
    Are people being forced to stay in blue areas?
  • PoguePogue 472 Pts
    edited April 16
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    @funperson Ok.
    Ha, that's funny. Ok, I will answer that. Because of this policy, white people are much more wealthy. They can easily pass down the money and advantages. However, minority communities can't. They cannot do that because they do not have these advantages. Many of the "red" areas still face poverty to this day. 
    Are people being forced to stay in blue areas?
    Ah, good question. They are not forced to stay in any area now. However, suburb developers (where some green neighborhoods were located) said that these areas were not allowed to be occupied by anyone but the Caucasian race. The US government encouraged this. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/28/nyregion/at-50-levittown-contends-with-its-legacy-of-bias.html.

    Also, as I previously stated, they do not have money and so can't move out of the area. Because of this policy, white people are much more wealthy. They can easily pass down the money and advantages. However, minority communities can't. They cannot do that because they do not have these advantages. Many of the "red" areas still face poverty to this day. Yes, the USA is not as racist as it was in the 30s or 40s, but by limiting the progress and mobility of black people back then, they limited the future of their children who were not given the chance to develop to their fullest potential which again means they are far less likely to succeed in life as their white counterparts

    P.S. It is red. Blue is a different group. 
    P.P.S. This is not to mention that lower-income areas get less funding from the state. Since minorities are much more likely to be in an impoverished neighborhood, this adds even more to their troubles. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/public-school-funding-and-the-role-of-race/408085/
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • VarrackVarrack 20 Pts
    Fascism said:
    If you are white you are more likely to be born into a richer family, while if you are black you are more likely to be born into poverty. 

    That is the only thing I can think of. 
    This doesn't prove that society "confers an advantage" upon white people; such a phrase implies systematic racism.

    Asian American families also have disproportionally high incomes. Asian privilege must exist as well.
  • Pogue said:
    Ah, good question. They are not forced to stay in any area now. However, suburb developers (where some green neighborhoods were located) said that these areas were not allowed to be occupied by anyone but the Caucasian race. The US government encouraged this. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/28/nyregion/at-50-levittown-contends-with-its-legacy-of-bias.html.

    Also, as I previously stated, they do not have money and so can't move out of the area. Because of this policy, white people are much more wealthy. They can easily pass down the money and advantages. However, minority communities can't. They cannot do that because they do not have these advantages. Many of the "red" areas still face poverty to this day. Yes, the USA is not as racist as it was in the 30s or 40s, but by limiting the progress and mobility of black people back then, they limited the future of their children who were not given the chance to develop to their fullest potential which again means they are far less likely to succeed in life as their white counterparts

    P.S. It is red. Blue is a different group. 
    P.P.S. This is not to mention that lower-income areas get less funding from the state. Since minorities are much more likely to be in an impoverished neighborhood, this adds even more to their troubles. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/public-school-funding-and-the-role-of-race/408085/
    ...so minorities living in these areas can get jobs, save their money and move away from them just like white people did.  Gotcha
  • PoguePogue 472 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    Ah, good question. They are not forced to stay in any area now. However, suburb developers (where some green neighborhoods were located) said that these areas were not allowed to be occupied by anyone but the Caucasian race. The US government encouraged this. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/28/nyregion/at-50-levittown-contends-with-its-legacy-of-bias.html.

    Also, as I previously stated, they do not have money and so can't move out of the area. Because of this policy, white people are much more wealthy. They can easily pass down the money and advantages. However, minority communities can't. They cannot do that because they do not have these advantages. Many of the "red" areas still face poverty to this day. Yes, the USA is not as racist as it was in the 30s or 40s, but by limiting the progress and mobility of black people back then, they limited the future of their children who were not given the chance to develop to their fullest potential which again means they are far less likely to succeed in life as their white counterparts

    P.S. It is red. Blue is a different group. 
    P.P.S. This is not to mention that lower-income areas get less funding from the state. Since minorities are much more likely to be in an impoverished neighborhood, this adds even more to their troubles. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/public-school-funding-and-the-role-of-race/408085/
    ...so minorities living in these areas can get jobs, save their money and move away from them just like white people did.  Gotcha
    So, it seems like you ignored my point and I did not say that. Seems like a straw man. 
    1. It is harder to get jobs if it is a poorer area. There is less business because it is poorer. 
    2. If you are making just enough money to survive, how can you save?
    3. How can you find enough money to move if you are barely finding enough money to survive? 

    Overall, it seems like you ignored my response and my first argument. That is ok. You only need that for an honest debate. 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @pogue it's a good argument. So you're saying that the policy affects people today because it makes white people richer on average, right? But I'm wondering, is this white privilege or "rich person" privilege? Because of course there are poor white people and rich black people too. Given that, some whites would not be beneficiaries of white privilege, as they do not come from wealthy communities, right?
  • PoguePogue 472 Pts
    funperson said:
    @pogue it's a good argument. So you're saying that the policy affects people today because it makes white people richer on average, right? But I'm wondering, is this white privilege or "rich person" privilege? Because of course there are poor white people and rich black people too. Given that, some whites would not be beneficiaries of white privilege, as they do not come from wealthy communities, right?
    It is white privilege. Of course, there are poor whites and rich blacks. As I said, not all, but the majority of white people do experience this. That policy ensured this. It is a white privilege because it makes them richer on average. So they have an advantage. This means it fits the definition. The money and advantage white people had back then means it would get passed down to their descendants (which is usually the children which are white). So, white people have an advantage. You can, however, become rich/wealthy without living in a wealthy community. It is very hard though. Some not having it doesn't mean it does not exist because most do experience it. 

    Also, thank you for saying it is a good argument. 
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Pogue said:

    So, it seems like you ignored my point and I did not say that. Seems like a straw man. 
    1. It is harder to get jobs if it is a poorer area. There is less business because it is poorer. 
    2. If you are making just enough money to survive, how can you save?
    3. How can you find enough money to move if you are barely finding enough money to survive? 

    Overall, it seems like you ignored my response and my first argument. That is ok. You only need that for an honest debate. 
    They can't get jobs???  They can't save money and move away like white people did???  You sound like a racist.  I read your post and links, they said minorities haven't been prohibited from the mentioned communities for half a century.  That is a significant amount of time for a country that's less than 250 years old.  No one is limiting anyone's progress and mobility, the people in these communities are limiting themselves.
    PogueFascism
  • CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:

    So, it seems like you ignored my point and I did not say that. Seems like a straw man. 
    1. It is harder to get jobs if it is a poorer area. There is less business because it is poorer. 
    2. If you are making just enough money to survive, how can you save?
    3. How can you find enough money to move if you are barely finding enough money to survive? 

    Overall, it seems like you ignored my response and my first argument. That is ok. You only need that for an honest debate. 
    They can't get jobs???  They can't save money and move away like white people did???  You sound like a racist.  I read your post and links, they said minorities haven't been prohibited from the mentioned communities for half a century.  That is a significant amount of time for a country that's less than 250 years old.  No one is limiting anyone's progress and mobility, the people in these communities are limiting themselves.
    Don't strawmen. Pogue clearly says it makes it harder for then to get jobs, so there is no reason to interpret this as it being impossible for them to get jobs.

    Then it you want to make claims of your own try backing them up in future.
    Fascism
  • Privilege- a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

    Do they have a special right? No, the constitution said we are all equal.
    Do they have a special advantage? Depends. 
    Image result for wealth by race
    Definitely, they are "born" richer, but does society grant them that? Is it definite that white people would be born richer? Nope.
    with_all_humility
    Fist Bump = A debate-y way to say, it's all cool bro
    Informative= Not bothering to read your 500-word essay
    Funny= Idiotic comment
  • BaconToesBaconToes 144 Pts
    edited April 16
    @Pogue said:
    White- belonging to or denoting a human group having light-colored skin (chiefly used of peoples of European extraction).
    Privilege- an advantage available only to a particular person or group of people.
    Real- actually existing

    Yes, it does exist. However, some white people do not experience it. The majority do, however. I say this because of United States' racist and oppressive history. Such as redlining and slavery. 

    Redlining is what I will focus on here. I will use the following sources, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining, https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/the-racist-housing-policy-that-made-your-neighborhood/371439/, http://www.blackpast.org/aah/redlining-1937, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/28/evidence-that-banks-still-deny-black-borrowers-just-as-they-did-50-years-ago/?utm_term=.dda090b9d92d, and https://www.youube.com/watch?v=ETR9qrVS17. ;

    Redling was a policy that lasted for decades that still affects us to this day.  During the time of FDR, and apart of the New Deal, the government created "color-coded" maps. In which green neighborhoods were good and red were bad. Because of these policies, if you lived in a green neighborhood it was very easy to get loans. In the red areas, it would be very hard and you got barely anything. These were the areas where black people and other minorities lived. The policy systematically prevented them from getting loans. 

    Even the suburb developers (where some green neighborhoods were located) said that these areas were not allowed to be occupied by anyone but the Caucasian race. The US government encouraged this. 

    The green areas got richer and richer so more industry came which made everyone richer. The result is that from 1934-1968 98% of home loans went to the green neighborhoods. The red neighborhoods got trapped and it was and is much harder for them to come out of poverty. 

    So, yes it is a real thing. Even though the policy ended, it still affects us. This means white privagle exists. 

    As @Fascism said, it is that "If you are white you are more likely to be born into a richer family, while if you are black you are more likely to be born into poverty."

    I'll just quote you on this: "However, some white people do not experience it"
    "Privilege- an advantage available only to a particular person or group of people."

    Fist Bump = A debate-y way to say, it's all cool bro
    Informative= Not bothering to read your 500-word essay
    Funny= Idiotic comment
  • Ampersand said:

    Don't strawmen. Pogue clearly says it makes it harder for then to get jobs, so there is no reason to interpret this as it being impossible for them to get jobs.

    Then it you want to make claims of your own try backing them up in future.
    Don't strawman?!?  LOL, the whole notion of white privilege is a strawman. 

    Harder for then to get jobs than what?  Than for Irish immigrants during the Potato Famine?  Than for Asians who were brought to the US as slaves?
    Vaulk
  • VaulkVaulk 410 Pts
    I generally don't enjoy these subjects but I'm going to have to take sides against the idea that White Privilege exists.  If you're going to say that one race has it better or worse than another and therefor "Privilege" exists then we're going to have to establish first and foremost what race you're comparing that race to and exactly how.

    If you're going to say that it's harder for one race to obtain a job then I'm afraid I must see some sort of fair comparison as the statement is purely relative.  So let's say I buy it, ok...so they have it harder than who?
    with_all_humility
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • FascismFascism 284 Pts
    @CYDdharta How is it a straw man? 

    @BaconToes You highlight the phrase "group of people" and use that against @Pogue. "Group of people" implies a collective. When someone refers to white people as a group, they view them as one entity. The individual is not considered. If individuals are considered when judging a group, then sure: Men are not stronger than women because some women are stronger than some men. "Group of people" judges all men as one entity and all women as one entity. In this case, men are generally stronger than women. Same thing applies to white privilege. White people are more likely to be born rich than black people in general, therefore white privilege exists. 

    @Varrack Privilege doesn't imply systematic racism. 
    Privilege - a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people. 
    There is a difference between higher wage and being born rich. Higher wage can be a result of privilege, but it is not absolute since higher wage can also come from hard work. So it depends how the higher wage was acquired. Being born rich isn't a result of hard work, therefore, it is a privilege. If you can prove that Asians are born richer than white people then I will agree that they have privilege. 
  • edited April 18
    Fascism said:
    @CYDdharta How is it a straw man? 

    @BaconToes You highlight the phrase "group of people" and use that against @Pogue. "Group of people" implies a collective. When someone refers to white people as a group, they view them as one entity. The individual is not considered. If individuals are considered when judging a group, then sure: Men are not stronger than women because some women are stronger than some men. "Group of people" judges all men as one entity and all women as one entity. In this case, men are generally stronger than women. Same thing applies to white privilege. White people are more likely to be born rich than black people in general, therefore white privilege exists. 

    @Varrack Privilege doesn't imply systematic racism. 
    Privilege - a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people. 
    There is a difference between higher wage and being born rich. Higher wage can be a result of privilege, but it is not absolute since higher wage can also come from hard work. So it depends how the higher wage was acquired. Being born rich isn't a result of hard work, therefore, it is a privilege. If you can prove that Asians are born richer than white people then I will agree that they have privilege. 
    Privilege - a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

    I not following your logic in deducing white people have an inherent right, advantage, immunity that is granted to them.  How is being born into anything here in America a privilege? There is nothing in the definition "privilege" that denote just because someone is born into a particular family that it in of itself is not a privilege. Can you give some specific's on exactly how and when white privilege occurs, not hypothetical situations? But real world "privilege." I read where a flesh tone band-aide was a sign of white privilege.  That is nonsense, manufacturers usually mass produce base on statistical marketing.  Example: why are door's manufactured at 6' 8"?  It because that 95% of the population is under the height of 6' 8".  Now is that short people privilege?

    I contend that, while there is discrimination and it goes both ways.  I don't believe there to be a systemic issue of privilege in today's society.  This notion is part of selling identity politics and is going to cause more division amongst social groups. This ideology play right into fringes of left.  So, if we are going to prove or disprove the existence of "white privilege" give some real case studies and real worldwide spread evidence because you can derive a hypothetical situation for anything you want to prove.

    "White people are more likely to be born rich than black people in general, therefore white privilege exists" 
    • This is all probability, not a privilege. When particular demographic is nearly 77% of the population, yea there is going to be a higher number of that demographic having more wealth, not because of privilege, but probability. 
    • Higher wage can be a result of privilege, Negative, again it's due to the probability.  It's just like the mythical gender wage gap, it is a miss representation of statistical data. 
    Race and Hispanic Origin
    White alone, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(a)76.9%
    Black or African American alone, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(a)13.3%
    American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(a)1.3%
    Asian alone, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(a)5.7%
    Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(a)0.2%
    Two or More Races, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)2.6%
    Hispanic or Latino, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(b)17.8%
    White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)61.3%
    • But it is not absolute since higher wage can also come from hard work. YES, this is what it is all about.  I've had a simple philosophy in my career, it's just working harder and smarter than the next guy/gal.  It's paid off, most people usually don't what to put for the effort. Employers don't get rid of assets, that get rid of dead weight.  Work hard and you will be fine.
    • Being born rich isn't a result of hard work, therefore, it is a privilege. Negative, no one controls where and how they are born. It is all happenstance. 
    So, let's talk about some real-world instance of privilege.  
    BaconToes
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