If the Christian God is good, why did he kill so many people? Does this make him evil?

LogicVault

@with_all_humility
"An atheist who professes to be a Bible scholar." A scholar is someone who studies something. They do not have to be a Christian in order to study Christianity.

"By the way; I believe scriptures elude to transgenderism as being wrong.  In 1 Corinthians Paul is rebuking the women for having shaved heads and men with long hair." So? It's a fictional book, so the opinion of people in it doesn't matter.

"Paul speaks that it is natural for a woman to have long hair because it adorns them or makes them more beautiful." That's his opinion. Some people think women with short hair are also beautiful. Opinions are not rules.

"I believe what Paul was pointing out that not only does a woman disgrace herself with a short hair and a man with long hair." That's subjective. Disgrace is a subjective perception.

"They are also deceitful, men with long hair can appear to be a female, and when a woman shaves her head or has her hair cut like a boy give off the appearance of a man.  So, in each case is deception." It's only deception if that is the person's intent. Some women just like the feeling of short hair and are not trying to look like a man. And it's an opinion that men SHOULD have short or no hair and that women SHOULD have long hair. Those are just societal norms created by the people themselves, not a god. Just like people are the ones that gave curse words their vulgar meanings, not a god.

"An article talking about recent discoveries of Exodus from Egypt." I'm not saying the entirety of the bible is false. Some or maybe even all of the people mentioned the bible probably existed, but the parts of the bible that claim a god did this or a god did that can not be proven to be true. There's no physical evidence that a god took any part in human history.

LogicVault

@poco
"Once again, you deflect from the question asked, which was re the 6000yr old earth theory." If you want the exact name of each professor or scholar that addresses that exact variable of the bible then you're going to have to go down the list of them and find the ones that do. Just because I'm unwilling to undertake that extremely boring task due to my ADHD, it does not mean they don't exist. You have internet and know how google works, so if you actually care more about the truth rather than just being right, then I suggest you get to reading their articles.

"Avoiding the question asked, to rant about something else." So, you want me to use quotes from the bible to prove it wrong even though so many professors and scholars have already done that? Whether I take the time to type everything they've already covered or you go read it from them, you'll still see what I've told you. So why not save myself the time by letting you read it from them?

"Is this not an opinion that is not corroborated?" The fact that they even made it into college indicates at least an adequate level of comprehension. It would be foolish to assume that none of them have a much higher level of comprehension.

"I can say all sorts of things re myself & others, but that doesn't qualify as something correct or true." You're not a scholar and you don't have any physical evidence that any of the stories in the bible are true. Scholars go through the bible, pick apart specific details, and use physical evidence to prove them wrong.

"If you are able to use logic re what you said about God w/o deflecting, then by all means please do." Call it deflection all you want just because it doesn't answer your questions the way you want it to, but it doesn't make it true.

"Going off topic to explain the topic only wastes time, & does nothing to further your explanation." To you it's off topic because you do not recognize the connection.

"You s the head of your household are still impacted by extraneous things/events not under your control.  God doesn't have those constraints." It was a loose example, not a literal similarity.

"Thing is, God can only do things according to His MO ..... bc that's what God does." MOs can change.

"What I'm saying is, God will not do evil things bc he doesn't want to, therefore He can't." You do not know what he wants to do. A book saying what he wants doesn't make it true. It's capable of being a lie just as much as the truth. Physical evidence is required.

Once again, out of time.

with_all_humility

LogicVault said:

@with_all_humility
"An atheist who professes to be a Bible scholar." A scholar is someone who studies something. They do not have to be a Christian in order to study Christianity.

"By the way; I believe scriptures elude to transgenderism as being wrong.  In 1 Corinthians Paul is rebuking the women for having shaved heads and men with long hair." So? It's a fictional book, so the opinion of people in it doesn't matter.

"Paul speaks that it is natural for a woman to have long hair because it adorns them or makes them more beautiful." That's his opinion. Some people think women with short hair are also beautiful. Opinions are not rules.

"I believe what Paul was pointing out that not only does a woman disgrace herself with a short hair and a man with long hair." That's subjective. Disgrace is a subjective perception.

"They are also deceitful, men with long hair can appear to be a female, and when a woman shaves her head or has her hair cut like a boy give off the appearance of a man.  So, in each case is deception." It's only deception if that is the person's intent. Some women just like the feeling of short hair and are not trying to look like a man. And it's an opinion that men SHOULD have short or no hair and that women SHOULD have long hair. Those are just societal norms created by the people themselves, not a god. Just like people are the ones that gave curse words their vulgar meanings, not a god.

"An article talking about recent discoveries of Exodus from Egypt." I'm not saying the entirety of the bible is false. Some or maybe even all of the people mentioned the bible probably existed, but the parts of the bible that claim a god did this or a god did that can not be proven to be true. There's no physical evidence that a god took any part in human history.

I agree a scholar is a person who becomes a subject matter expert on a particular field of study.  However, that field of study is usually in a subject that one loves and supports.  An atheist that is a bible scholar is an oxymoron. 

The New Testament is not a fictional book, setting the Bible aside.   Transgenderism is a perversion of nature as well.  How many transgender species do you find in the animal kingdom?

"Disgrace is a subjective perception."  As far as the Bible is a concern it is not subjective.  I would explain Biblical authority, however, I doubt your interested or would believe what I was telling you.

"It's only deception if that is the person's intent."  No, that like saying I was not stealing, I was only borrowing it.  A person with y chromosome is a male, a person with only x chromosomes is a female.  It's pretty simple...the issue becomes the human mind.  You're also getting caught up in the length of hair, that's not the point.  The issues were women acting as men and men acting as women.

"There's no physical evidence that a God took any part in human history."  Here we go again, wanting physical evidence for something that is spiritual in nature.  We are also in a different period of time.  God no longer needs to talk to the man (actually Moses was the last man directly spoken to, He spoke to the prophets through dreams and angels).  Nonetheless, all has been revealed in the New Testament that a person has to do in order to receive eternal life. With that being said, there are many things science can't provide physical evidence for like dark matter, and dark space.  Yet you probably believe that those things exist because some science journal told you they do.

Many Blessings!


  

poco

@LogicVault

you:  "Once again, you deflect from the question asked, which was re the 6000yr old earth theory." If you want the exact name of each professor or scholar that addresses that exact variable of the bible then you're going to have to go down the list of them and find the ones that do. Just because I'm unwilling to undertake that extremely boring task due to my ADHD, it does not mean they don't exist. You have internet and know how google works, so if you actually care more about the truth rather than just being right, then I suggest you get to reading their articles.

me:  Have I asked for, "... name of each professor or scholar...." not even close.  A biblical scholar is one with a pedigree in biblical studies that is respected in that field.  My exact request was, "... but what biblical scholar can you reference ..."  see, that's singular, not an exaggeration of, "... each professor or scholar that addresses that exact variable ..." as you have stated.  You typify deceptive tactics other people use re God or biblical question in an attempt not to answer the one specific question.  Typical of someone that has no answers re it. 

Ya see, you make the claim, it's up to you to substantiate it ..... or that's constitutes your inability to prove what you say is so.

you:  "Avoiding the question asked, to rant about something else." So, you want me to use quotes from the bible to prove it wrong even though so many professors and scholars have already done that? Whether I take the time to type everything they've already covered or you go read it from them, you'll still see what I've told you. So why not save myself the time by letting you read it from them?

me:  There you go again, with, "... so many professors and scholars have already done that?"  Your claims are worthless w/o reliable, that's the key word here, research to back them up.Altho, many of your ilk use this as an excuse to avoid being exposed as frauds.

you:  "Is this not an opinion that is not corroborated?" The fact that they even made it into college indicates at least an adequate level of comprehension. It would be foolish to assume that none of them have a much higher level of comprehension.

me:  That's not the point here.  You use unsubstantiated personal opinion for your claims.  Your claim above re logic tells me that anyone that enters college has a grasp on logic.  Puleeeeease.  A generalization that in no way can be substantiated. 

You're batting zero so far.

you:  "I can say all sorts of things re myself & others, but that doesn't qualify as something correct or true." You're not a scholar and you don't have any physical evidence that any of the stories in the bible are true. Scholars go through the bible, pick apart specific details, and use physical evidence to prove them wrong.

me:  OK.  This goes back to my previous request of you providing me with details that, "... pick apart specific details, and use physical evidence to prove them wrong."  So, give me some of those examples. 

you:  "If you are able to use logic re what you said about God w/o deflecting, then by all means please do." Call it deflection all you want just because it doesn't answer your questions the way you want it to, but it doesn't make it true.

me:  You have not addressed my points/questions specifically ..... or even generally.  Deflection is when a party goes off topic to refer about some other aspect of maybe or maybe not related to what they are tasked with.  That indicates to me that you have nothing of value to substantiate your claims. 

you:  "Going off topic to explain the topic only wastes time, & does nothing to further your explanation." To you it's off topic because you do not recognize the connection.

me:  When you do not specifically address the point made, it's off topic.  Attempt to explain it away w/o addressing it  ..... does not refute what I claim re this.

you:  "You as the head of your household are still impacted by extraneous things/events not under your control.  God doesn't have those constraints." It was a loose example, not a literal similarity.

me:  You are the one that made this comparison between you as the head & God, not me.

you:  "Thing is, God can only do things according to His MO ..... bc that's what God does." MOs can change.

me:  Exactly.  You used the word 'can' while describing God's changing His MO.  That is unsubstantiated personal opinion.  But, I'll bite.  Knowing God as well as you must to be able to describe what He can/cannot do, just how can God's MO change?  ..... The God from the bible.  & yes, I can reference the bible bc you have used it in our discussion. 

you:  "What I'm saying is, God will not do evil things bc he doesn't want to, therefore He can't." You do not know what he wants to do. A book saying what he wants doesn't make it true. It's capable of being a lie just as much as the truth. Physical evidence is required.

me:  That's where you're wrong.  One finds out what God's MO is as they study His word. 

What physical evidence is required re this?

LogicVault

@poco
I don't have time to address every bit of your response so I'll just leave it at you are being way too nit picky and a lot of specific things you are asking for you can get for yourself with a simple google search. If you actually cared about truth you would check for yourself instead of wait around for me to do it for you. You want to argue just to be arguing.

Erfisflat

Ya, @poco, you're supposed to be debating Google, not a logical thinking human!

with_all_humility

LogicVault said:

@poco
I don't have time to address every bit of your response so I'll just leave it at you are being way too nit picky and a lot of specific things you are asking for you can get for yourself with a simple google search. If you actually cared about truth you would check for yourself instead of wait around for me to do it for you. You want to argue just to be arguing.

LogicVault:  Surely you can do better than that after all this is a debate website.  Just be honest and answer poco's questions.  We're not playing stump the monkey, but exchanging ideas/beliefs and perspectives.  If you can't defend your position, then you should submit to your opponent and let him/her know that they have a persuasive argument.  

poco

@LogicVault

you;  I don't have time to address every bit of your response so I'll just leave it at you are being way too nit picky and a lot of specific things you are asking for you can get for yourself with a simple google search. If you actually cared about truth you would check for yourself instead of wait around for me to do it for you. You want to argue just to be arguing.

me:  That's precious.  You fail to address my challenges to you as I wrote them to you, & now you say there's too any to answer.  Ha, if you'd only have answered them one at a time, as asked, you'd have plenty of time.  See, this is what a person does when they have no real argument ...... place the blame on their opponent. 

BTW, I asked you only about your claims that were wrong ..... your personal opinions.  Some unbelievable stuff.  That's what a debate is ..... when someone makes a claim that doesn't make sense, the opponent challenges their claims.  It's up to the originator of that claim to prove their point with reliable research, which you never had.  You do remember me telling you that it's so frustrating having discourse with folks such as you that have no conception of debate protocol.  This is a prime example.  Then you run away.

Methinx, you ought to change your moniker from, "LogicVault" to "LogicFault."

poco

@Erfisflat

That's a good one, haha.  Guess what is said re LogicFault is true. 

LogicVault

@poco
I addressed the ones I had time for. You just didn't like how I did so. That's your problem, not mine. You're not looking for truth, only arguments. I'm not here to play your debate team games, only correct information so that people actually seeking truth can discover it. I've done enough by you to lead them in the right direction to search for and discover the correct information. Have a nice day.

LogicVault

@with_all_humility
I did answer. He just doesn't like how. I don't care if he does or not. The people actually seeking truth now have more of an idea of how to find the information that explains what I didn't have time to. Those of you wanting to argue just to be arguing can continue to do so with each other. Have a nice day.

poco

@LogicVault

you:  I addressed the ones I had time for. You just didn't like how I did so. That's your problem, not mine. You're not looking for truth, only arguments. I'm not here to play your debate team games, only correct information so that people actually seeking truth can discover it. I've done enough by you to lead them in the right direction to search for and discover the correct information. Have a nice day.

me:  You have answered with personal opinion, which in a debate venue can be challenged for further clarification ..... which I had done many times with you bc all of your statements were of the personal opinion nature. 

You use the words, "correct information," when describing what you say is truth.  I have challenged you to prove with substantiated reliable sources that your truth & correct info is just that.  If you are unable to say why what you say is true & correct, then what you say cannot be considered true & correct.  Sorry, but that's debate protocol.

What you say is true in other type of discussion venues, but not in a debate venue.  One must back up claims they make with reliable sources when asked.  Maybe this venue is a bit too "involved" for you to handle effectively.  I'm sure there's other venues that only ask for opinion as a resource.  Maybe you'd be considered effective on one of those. 

Ya see, this criticism is for your own good.  If you investigate & follow what the protocol is, you'll be a much better debater.  As of now, you're much too easy to prove wrong, & it's no fun/challenge for your opposition.  I hope you tke this as an educational critique.  & God bless.

LogicVault

@poco
"Blah blah blah, I just wanna do the debate club thing, blah blah blah. (essentially)" Not me. I'm here for truth only. You can shove your debate etiquette where the sun doesn't shine. Arguing just for the art of debating is a child's game. Have a nice day. And by "have a nice day", I mean I'm done with you and your games. So responding is futile. Drop it and move on like a mature adult.

Joeseph

Remarkably Satan is depicted as the bad guy in the Bible and God is the good guy , God slaughters 25 million and is a “morally “ perfect entity , Satan kills Jobs family after God “ encouraged “ him to test Jobs family and he the “evil “ one , what a brilliant P R coup for God .

This is akin to saying Hitler was morally good  whilst Ghandi was an evil despicable individual 

Total number killed by God in the Bible

- Using biblical numbers only: 2,821,364

 - With estimates: 25 million

A more detailed list can be given to include the killing of children and innocent people/civilians.

Such examples are bears mauling 42 children, Jephthah sacrificing his daughter, God killing King David's child to punish David, God inflicting thousands if not millions of civilians with tumors, Moses' army killing women and children, etc.

Satan killed Jobs family .....Satan thought Job wasn't as good as he looked and when trouble and death came he would renounce his belief so God told him he could test him. God allowed Satan to kill Job's children and servants to test Job in order to see how righteous he was, for no other particular reason, without thinking about the people who died, treating them as merely confiscated possessions.

God was his co conspirator .

The god as depicted in the Bible is a vile , spiteful ,  jealous entity ,fortunately it’s all based on a book of childish nonsense 

poco

@LogicVault

you:  Blah blah blah, I just wanna do the debate club thing, blah blah blah. (essentially)" Not me. I'm here for truth only. You can shove your debate etiquette where the sun doesn't shine. Arguing just for the art of debating is a child's game. Have a nice day. And by "have a nice day", I mean I'm done with you and your games. So responding is futile. Drop it and move on like a mature adult.

me:  Your, "You can shove your debate etiquette where the sun doesn't shine," shows your naivete re debating.  You do realize this is a debate venue site right?  That means when a persons argues, or in your case, attempts to tell truth from their perspective, that truth can & should be debated by those that do not agree with your "truth."  You may serve yourself better, & everyone else here, if you would switch to another site that did not have a debating venue. 

I think you just didn't have any further substantive "truths" that would have reinforced your opinions, not valid truth that is, & gave up bc of your pride, & lack of reliable argument.  Tsk, tsk.  This seems to be your MO on this site ..... sort of a guerilla tactic of throwing a lie or 2 out there, & then run away when you are challenged.   As Jack Nicholson once said, "You can't handle the truth."

The previous post from me was intended to help you realize what you were lacking re your argumentative style ..... so as to better yourself on this venue.  I have seen others commenting re your lack of debate expertise, so I'm not the only one telling you this.  You've heard the old axiom of, "If one person tells you that you have a tail, you can probably dismiss iit.  If 2 people tell you that you have a tail, you should look behind you.  & if 3 people tell you that you have a tail ..... brother you have a tail."

poco

@Joeseph

you: 

Remarkably Satan is depicted as the bad guy in the Bible and God is the good guy , God slaughters 25 million and is a “morally “ perfect entity , Satan kills Jobs family after God “ encouraged “ him to test Jobs family and he the “evil “ one , what a brilliant P R coup for God .

me:  God encouraged Satan?  God doesn't encourage evil, evil is a choice by the individual.  God let Satan, as the earth is Satan's domain anyway, do his thing.  That's not encouragement.

Also, is not Satan equated with evil in any forum?  So, why would you use the word "remarkably" in association with Satan & bad guy?

you:  This is akin to saying Hitler was morally good  whilst Ghandi was an evil despicable individual

me:  I'll ask you to expound upon this analogy.

you:  Total number killed by God in the Bible

- Using biblical numbers only: 2,821,364

 - With estimates: 25 million

me:How about aa reliable source re these numbers.  Reliable please, not some biased source.

me:  A more detailed list can be given to include the killing of children and innocent people/civilians.

you:  Such examples are bears mauling 42 children, Jephthah sacrificing his daughter, God killing King David's child to punish David, God inflicting thousands if not millions of civilians with tumors, Moses' army killing women and children, etc.

me:  Those children were actually teens, not little kids.  In the ancient times, God emphasized sin with extreme examples such as this to let them & future readers know how evil acts are viewed by God.  

your, "God inflicting thousands if not millions ..."  Is this your opinion bc there's a huge diff between 1000's & 1,000,000's.  Done for effect, or truth ..... I have to wonder.

I also have to wonder if you know that people that had been killed for God's purpose, & to save them from a sinful life later & therefore an eternity in hell.  The evil people killed ..... were evil & therefore would have promoted evil for others, including the Israelites, & were killed for that reason.  Others killed so as they would nt be subjected to an evil life, & therefore would haave not spent eternity in hell.  It's an excellent trade off.

you:  Satan killed Jobs family .....Satan thought Job wasn't as good as he looked and when trouble and death came he would renounce his belief so God told him he could test him. God allowed Satan to kill Job's children and servants to test Job in order to see how righteous he was, for no other particular reason, without thinking about the people who died, treating them as merely confiscated possessions.

me:   Ahhh, for a very good reason.  For future readers to learn from this.  & also o show Satan he didn't have complete control over earth ..... that God had the ultimate last word, not Satan.

you:  God was his co conspirator .

me:  Ha, ha.

you:  The god as depicted in the Bible is a vile , spiteful ,  jealous entity ,fortunately it’s all based on a book of childish nonsense

Me:  You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it shows your lack of understanding the bible & its message.  Typical of God haters not to know & to view verses out of contextual meaning.  One must study any work of literature to understand its message, rather than just read the words as they appear in print.

with_all_humility

@Joeseph

Your assessment of Job fails to recognize the omnipotence of God.  Job was never in harm's way, and while he suffered persecution for his faithfulness to God restored all that Job had lost in the end.

Job 42.10-17:  And the LORD restored Job's losses when he prayed for his friends. Indeed, the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before. Then all his brothers, all his sisters, and all those who had been his acquaintances before came to him and ate food with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the adversity that the LORD had brought upon him. Each one gave him a piece of silver and each a ring of gold.  Now the LORD blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; for he had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, one thousand yokes of oxen, and one thousand female donkeys.  He also had seven sons and three daughters.  And he called the name of the first Jemimah, the name of the second Keziah, and the name of the third Keren-Happuch.  In all the land were found no women so beautiful as the daughters of Job, and their father gave them an inheritance among their brothers.  After this Job lived one hundred and forty years and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations.  So, Job died, old and full of days.

Joeseph

@poco

I said .......Remarkably Satan is depicted as the bad guy in the Bible and God is the good guy , God slaughters 25 million and is a “morally “ perfect entity , Satan kills Jobs family after God “ encouraged “ him to test Jobs family and he the “evil “ one , what a brilliant P R coup for God .

You say .....God encouraged Satan?  God doesn't encourage evil, evil is a choice by the individual. ......

My reply...... I can think of many examples of god encouraging evil as in .......

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

You say ......God let Satan, as the earth is Satan's domain anyway, do his thing.  That's not encouragement.......

My reply ......maybe you need to read the narrative regarding Job ?

You say .....Also, is not Satan equated with evil in any forum?  .....

Yes Christians certainly think this way , I’m asking why ? 

You say .......So, why would you use the word "remarkably" in association with Satan & bad guy?

My reply ......You’re failure to understand my opening statement baffles me regarding this matter , I’ve already explained the why 

You say .....I'll ask you to expound upon this analogy.

So you never read what I said regarding kills but god against those by Satan ?

you:  Total number killed by God in the Bible

- Using biblical numbers only: 2,821,364

 - With estimates: 25 million

You say ......How about aa reliable source re these numbers.  Reliable please, not some biased source.

My reply .....The Bible is my source maybe you should read it sometime?

A more detailed list can be given to include the killing of children and innocent people/civilians.

you: Such examples are bears mauling 42 children, Jephthah sacrificing his daughter, God killing King David's child to punish David, God inflicting thousands if not millions of civilians with tumors, Moses' army killing women and children, etc.

You say Those children were actually teens, not little kids.  ......

So ?

You say .....In the ancient times, God emphasized sin with extreme examples such as this to let them & future readers know how evil acts are viewed by God. 

How very kind of him getting bears to maim 42 children to you is just ?

  

You say .....your, "God inflicting thousands if not millions ..."  Is this your opinion bc there's a huge diff between 1000's & 1,000,000's.  .....

The figures are accurate 

You say .....Done for effect, or truth ..... I have to wonder.......

The truth seems to hurt you 

You say .....I also have to wonder if you know that people that had been killed for God's purpose, & to save them from a sinful life later & therefore an eternity in hell. .....

My reply ....really how hilarious , so god now kills people so they won’t sin but lets others live so ......they can ......sin

Joeseph

@poco

part two of my response ......

You say ......The evil people killed ..... were evil & therefore would have promoted evil for others, including the Israelites, & were killed for that reason.  Others killed so as they would nt be subjected to an evil life, & therefore would haave not spent eternity in hell.  It's an excellent trade off......

Absolute nonsense , so why does he not do it now ?

 .....Satan thought Job wasn't as good as he looked and when trouble and death came he would renounce his belief so God told him he could test him. God allowed Satan to kill Job's children and servants to test Job in order to see how righteous he was, for no other particular reason, without thinking about the people who died, treating them as merely confiscated possessions.

You say .....Ahhh, for a very good reason.  For future readers to learn from this.  & also o show Satan he didn't have complete control over earth ..... that God had the ultimate last word, not Satan.

My reply .... nonsense 

you:  God was his co conspirator .

Your reply ......Ha, ha.

I say ...... The truth can be amusing at times 

you:  The god as depicted in the Bible is a vile , spiteful ,  jealous entity ,fortunately it’s all based on a book of childish nonsense 

You say ......You are certainly entitled to your opinion....

My reply.....Opinion  based on the Bible 

, you say .....but it shows your lack of understanding the bible & its message.......

My reply ......I’m an expert on the Bible , you do not even know its contents judging on your lack of knowledge regarding the kill count for god 

You say .....Typical of God haters .....

My reply .....

How can I hate a fiction ? It amuses me to watch believers spout nonsense in defence of a book of  

You say .....not to know & to view verses out of contextual meaning. .....

My reply ....Ah yes , when all else fails use the out of context defence , so there is a “ correct “ context for commanding , rape , slavery , abortion ,murder  famine , and pestilence ?

You say .....One must study any work of literature to understand its message, .....

My reply ......yes , maybe you should do that instead of listening to a preachers ?

You say .....rather than just read the words as they appear in print.

My reply ....Of course never believe the uncomfortable words in a book only the favourable ones that paint your god in a good light 

Thanks for the heads up

Joeseph

@with_all_humility

I don’t  believe in a god , I’m critiquing what it says in the Bible regards the slaughter and mayhem carried out by your “loving “ god 

with_all_humility

Joeseph said:

@with_all_humility

I don’t  believe in a god , I’m critiquing what it says in the Bible regards the slaughter and mayhem carried out by your “loving “ god 

Joeseph, I understanding your critiquing the Bible, however, in your critiquing you need to ensure you are not "cherry picking" just the parts that make your point.  Don't pull just part of the verses out of context, when you do you make a pretext (false arguement).  

Foreinstance, I see you've taken the classic pretextural arguement of most athiest.  That of 2 Kings 2.24, the killing of fourty-two boys by a she-bear.  What you fail to do is consider the context of what is going on and who Elisha was.  Anyways, the "moral of the story" if you will, is that you don't mock a messanger of God.  To do so, is to mock God, and in the times of Old Testament would bring about the wrath of God.  The author of 2 Kings was illustrating a point.  

So, when critiqing how many people were killed in the Old Testament by God you need to take in account the whole text and answer the question as to what is going on and what is the author trying to illustrate.

Joeseph

@with_all_humility

You say......Joeseph, I understanding your critiquing the Bible, however, in your critiquing you need to ensure you are not "cherry picking" just the parts that make your point........

My reply ......There’s countless examples that make my point 

.You say .....Don't pull just part of the verses out of context, when you do you make a pretext (false arguement). 

My reply ..... so there’s a good context for these verses ? 

You say ........Foreinstance, I see you've taken the classic pretextural arguement of most atheist.....

My reply .....pretextural ? I’m actually quoting what it says in the Bible 

You say ......That of 2 Kings 2.24, the killing of fourty-two boys by a she-bear.  What you fail to do is consider the context of what is going on and who Elisha was. ....

My reply ..... So there is a” good context “ for 42 children being maimed by a bear ....  Oh dear 

You say .....Anyways, the "moral of the story" if you will, is that you don't mock a messanger of God.  

My reply ..... yes , because he will maim 42  of your children with bears, you worship this god ? 

You say ...  To do so, is to mock God, and in the times of Old Testament would bring about the wrath of God. .....

My reply ....Yes ,and it seems gods moral god code became a bit more tolerant I;the New Testament, why’s that ? 

You say .....The author of 2 Kings was illustrating a point.  

My reply ..... yes indeed , as in a child poking fun at a bald man deserve to be pulled apart by bears , I hope you’re not bald as I fear for your kids if they make fun of you 

You say ......So, when critiqing how many people were killed in the Old Testament by God you need to take in account the whole text and answer the question as to what is going on and what is the author trying to illustrate.

My reply .....I do take the whole text Into account , can you not stand by anything that you find uncomfortable in the Bible ? 

Oh wait , you find it all perfectly “ reasonable “ don’t you ? 

Total number killed by God in the Bible

- Using biblical numbers only: 2,821,364

 - With estimates: 25 million

with_all_humility

@Joeseph

"Yes, and it seems gods moral god code became a bit more tolerant I; the New Testament, why’s that?" 

• That is a great question...I can answer this for you, however, it will take me little time to build my response.  I'm currently on break and do my best to give you a response later tonight.

George_Horse

@Evidence No.

LogicVault

@poco
More blah blah blah.

Joeseph

@with_all_humility

Thank you I appreciate it 

poco

@Joeseph

you:  said .......Remarkably Satan is depicted as the bad guy in the Bible and God is the good guy , God slaughters 25 million and is a “morally “ perfect entity , Satan kills Jobs family after God “ encouraged “ him to test Jobs family and he the “evil “ one , what a brilliant P R coup for God .

You say .....God encouraged Satan?  God doesn't encourage evil, evil is a choice by the individual. ......

My reply...... I can think of many examples of god encouraging evil as in .......

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

me:  A deflection I see.  I referred to your specific Job reference.  I will address your above concern when you address my 1st question above.

You say ......God let Satan, as the earth is Satan's domain anyway, do his thing.  That's not encouragement.......

My reply ......maybe you need to read the narrative regarding Job ?

me:  I have, maybe instead of telling me to read something, why not back up your claim with an actual quote from the bible.

You say .....Also, is not Satan equated with evil in any forum?  .....

Yes Christians certainly think this way , I’m asking why ?

me:  All references attributed to Satan have a negative connotation.

You say .......So, why would you use the word "remarkably" in association with Satan & bad guy?

My reply ......You’re failure to understand my opening statement baffles me regarding this matter , I’ve already explained the why 

me:  So, maybe I need a further explanation from you.  Got one?

You say .....I'll ask you to expound upon this analogy.

So you never read what I said regarding kills but god against those by Satan ?

What?!?  Your sentence doesn't make sense. 

you:  Total number killed by God in the Bible

- Using biblical numbers only: 2,821,364

 - With estimates: 25 million

You say ......How about a reliable source re these numbers.  Reliable please, not some biased source.

My reply .....The Bible is my source maybe you should read it sometime?

me:  I have studied the bible, & also read it all the time ..... that's why I have asked you to substantiate that number.  So easy to make claims, but it's another story to back them up.  I saw this number from an anti-God site, but they estimated many of their numbers.  Just be honest here ..... did you really only use the bible & meticulously reference each & every instance someone was killed, or use this site for your reference.  Odd that the number was exactly the same as the one you gave .... estimates & all, yet you say it was the bible that you obtained your number from.  Very odd.

A more detailed list can be given to include the killing of children and innocent people/civilians.

you: Such examples are bears mauling 42 children, Jephthah sacrificing his daughter, God killing King David's child to punish David, God inflicting thousands if not millions of civilians with tumors, Moses' army killing women and children, etc.

You say Those children were actually teens, not little kids.  ......

So ?

me:  You said children.  That's not true.

You say .....In the ancient times, God emphasized sin with extreme examples such as this to let them & future readers know how evil acts are viewed by God. 

How very kind of him getting bears to maim 42 children to you is just ?

Not children tho, but if it teaches a lesson, then it's just.  Just think if those teenagers were to grow up & cause greater evil?

  

You say .....your, "God inflicting thousands if not millions ..."  Is this your opinion bc there's a huge diff between 1000's & 1,000,000's.  .....

The figures are accurate

me:  ummm, yes for an estimate that covers a generous amount of potential difference.  Haha

You say .....Done for effect, or truth ..... I have to wonder.......

The truth seems to hurt you

Nah.

You say .....I also have to wonder if you know that people that had been killed for God's purpose, & to save them from a sinful life later & therefore an eternity in hell. .....

My reply ....really how hilarious , so god now kills people so they won’t sin but lets others live so ......they can ......sin

A life dedicated to sin, is much different than a life dedicated to God, but sins at times bc they are human.

poco

@Joeseph

you:  part two of my response ......

You say ......The evil people killed ..... were evil & therefore would have promoted evil for others, including the Israelites, & were killed for that reason.  Others killed so as they would not be subjected to an evil life, & therefore would have not spent eternity in hell.  It's an excellent trade off......

Absolute nonsense , so why does he not do it now ?

Now?!?  Examples please.

 .....Satan thought Job wasn't as good as he looked and when trouble and death came he would renounce his belief so God told him he could test him. God allowed Satan to kill Job's children and servants to test Job in order to see how righteous he was, for no other particular reason, without thinking about the people who died, treating them as merely confiscated possessions.

You say .....Ahhh, for a very good reason.  For future readers to learn from this.  & also to show Satan he didn't have complete control over earth ..... that God had the ultimate last word, not Satan.

My reply .... nonsense

me:  typical, altho disagreeing with it does not affect its validity.

you:  God was his co conspirator .

Your reply ......Ha, ha.

I say ...... The truth can be amusing at times

I'm sure you know my laugh was re God being Satan's co-conspirator as outlandishly false.

you:  The god as depicted in the Bible is a vile , spiteful ,  jealous entity ,fortunately it’s all based on a book of childish nonsense 

You say ......You are certainly entitled to your opinion....

My reply.....Opinion  based on the Bible

me:  Sure, with your lack of knowledge of the bible that is.  reading a book does not equate to knowing what the book contains.  Study is required for that, which you seemingly have not done.

, you say .....but it shows your lack of understanding the bible & its message.......

My reply ......I’m an expert on the Bible , you do not even know its contents judging on your lack of knowledge regarding the kill count for god

Oh, a self-proclaimed expert.  Geez, am I supposed to be impressed with all of your "expertise, yet lack of biblical knowledge?  Not so.  What's your pedigree re your claim of being a biblical expert?

You say .....Typical of God haters .....

My reply .....

How can I hate a fiction ? It amuses me to watch believers spout nonsense in defence of a book of 

me:  You're entitled to your opinion.  But since you have made a claim that the bible is fiction, back this claim up with reliable sources.

You say .....not to know & to view verses out of contextual meaning. .....

My reply ....Ah yes , when all else fails use the out of context defence , so there is a “ correct “ context for commanding , rape , slavery , abortion ,murder  famine , and pestilence ?

You got it.

You say .....One must study any work of literature to understand its message, .....

My reply ......yes , maybe you should do that instead of listening to a preachers ?

me:  What do you know of me to make that claim?  Be specific please.

You say .....rather than just read the words as they appear in print.

My reply ....Of course never believe the uncomfortable words in a book only the favourable ones that paint your god in a good light

me:  There re uncomfortable verses in the bible .... I admit that.  But the more one understands the message in the bible, the more one understand why those events happen.  geez, I thought you said you were an biblical expert.

Joeseph

@poco

You say .....God encouraged Satan?  God doesn't encourage evil, evil is a choice by the individual. ......

My reply ......

9 Satan replied, “Would Job worship you if he got nothing out of it? 10 You have always protected him and his family and everything he owns. You bless everything he does, and you have given him enough cattle to fill the whole country. 11 But now suppose you take away everything he has—he will curse you to your face!”

12 “All right,” the Lord said to Satan, “everything he has is in your power, but you must not hurt Job himself.” So Satan left.

See that “ All right “ there’s that encouragement you deny 

Now maybe instead of you deleting address the piece below 

My reply...... I can think of many examples of god encouraging evil as in .......

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

me:  A deflection I see.  I referred to your specific Job reference.  I will address your above concern when you address my 1st question above.

My reply ....No your the one deflecting read above 

You say ......I have, maybe instead of telling me to read something, why not back up your claim with an actual quote from the bible.

My reply .....I just have you obviously have not 

You say ......All references attributed to Satan have a negative connotation.

 My reply .......funny that there’s me thinking the same about god 

You say .....So, maybe I need a further explanation from you.  Got one?

My reply ..... comprehension is not your strong point is it ? 

If Satan merely kills Jobs  family and god kills by the million I know who I think the bad guy is 

You say .....I'll ask you to expound upon this analogy.

My reply ..... I keep doing so you keep ignoring 

You say .....What?!?  Your sentence doesn't make sense.  

My reply ..... I dumbed it does for you as above 

you:  Total number killed by God in the Bible

- Using biblical numbers only: 2,821,364

 - With estimates: 25 million

You say ......How about a reliable source re these numbers.  Reliable please, not some biased source.

My reply .... the source is sound 

My reply .....The Bible is my source maybe you should read it sometime?

You say .....I have studied the bible, & also read it all the time ..... that's why I have asked you to substantiate that number......So easy to make claims, but it's another story to back them up. ......

Would you like an actual list ?

You say ......I saw this number from an anti-God site, but they estimated many of their numbers. ......

My reply .....What’s an anti god site ? Newsflash Atheists don’t believe in a god 

You say .....Just be honest here ..... did you really only use the bible & meticulously reference each & every instance someone was killed, or use this site for your reference. .......

My reply .....I’ve done the research in the past and what’s wrong with using a site for reference Christians apparently do it all the time from anti atheists sites ☺️

You say .....Odd that the number was exactly the same as the one you gave .... estimates & all, yet you say it was the bible that you obtained your number from.  Very odd.

My reply .....It’s old news among Atheists regarding the figures isn’t that odd?

A more detailed list can be given to include the killing of children and innocent people/civilians.

You say ......Those children were actually teens, not little kids.  ......

My reply .......You really need to actually read your Bible , do you have one ?

2 Kings 2:23-24 King James Version (KJV) 23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

See that little children ?

You say ......You said children.  That's not true.

My reply .....It is , read a Bible 

You say ......Not children tho, but if it teaches a lesson, then it's just. .....

Read above , so killing children is fine with you for merely ribbing a bald man ? Oh dear 

You say ......Just think if those teenagers were to grow up & cause greater evil?

My reply ..... Yes better off killing children for jeering a bald man 

  

You say .....your, "God inflicting thousands if not millions ..."  Is this your opinion bc there's a huge diff between 1000's & 1,000,000's.  .....

The figures are accurate 

You say :  ummm, yes for an estimate that covers a generous amount of potential difference.  Haha

My reply ..... it’s all in the Bible waiting for you 

You say .....Done for effect, or truth ..... I have to wonder.......

The truth seems to hurt you 

You say .....Nah.

My reply ..... I’ve just proved it does , your denial confirms it 

You say .....I also have to wonder if you know that people that had been killed for God's purpose, & to save them from a sinful life later & therefore an eternity in hell. .....

My reply ....really how hilarious , so god now kills people so they won’t sin but lets others live so ......they can ......sin 

You say ...A life dedicated to sin, is much different than a life dedicated to God, but sins at times bc they are human.

My reply ..... So answer my question which you avoided , why does god let people live so they can commit sin but kill others so they cannot ?

Bet you still won’t answer 

I shall address part two of your response when time permits 

poco

@Joeseph

you: 

You say .....God encouraged Satan?  God doesn't encourage evil, evil is a choice by the individual. ......

My reply ......

9 Satan replied, “Would Job worship you if he got nothing out of it? 10 You have always protected him and his family and everything he owns. You bless everything he does, and you have given him enough cattle to fill the whole country. 11 But now suppose you take away everything he has—he will curse you to your face!”

12 “All right,” the Lord said to Satan, “everything he has is in your power, but you must not hurt Job himself.” So Satan left.

you:  See that “ All right “ there’s that encouragement you deny

me:  Since the definition of encouragement is 'support of the individual' ..... doesn't seem like God supported Satan, just allowed him to do his thing, which is much different.

Now maybe instead of you deleting address the piece below

Deleting what?

My reply...... I can think of many examples of god encouraging evil as in .......

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

me:  A deflection I see.  I referred to your specific Job reference.  I will address your above concern when you address my 1st question above.

My reply ....No your the one deflecting read above

me:  Yeah, after you just answered it with this reply, not the one I was addressing with my last response.

You say ......I have, maybe instead of telling me to read something, why not back up your claim with an actual quote from the bible.

My reply .....I just have you obviously have not

See my above response.  Why are you trying to make it look as tho you have previously answered my previous posts, when you only addressed them with this new post?  geez.

You say ......All references attributed to Satan have a negative connotation.

 My reply .......funny that there’s me thinking the same about god

me:  One associates, from the bible & other references, God with love.  Maybe not all, but many.

Please give me reliable references associating Satan with love, or anything positive.

You say .....So, maybe I need a further explanation from you.  Got one?

My reply ..... comprehension is not your strong point is it ? 

If Satan merely kills Jobs  family and god kills by the million I know who I think the bad guy is

You certainly like to assume don't you?

You say .....I'll ask you to expound upon this analogy.

My reply ..... I keep doing so you keep ignoring

me:  ummm, maybe you're just not doing a good enuf job.  Besides, when you delete parts of the conversation, I'm not going to go back & try to figure out what you're referring to, so copy & paste the entire conversation please.

You say .....What?!?  Your sentence doesn't make sense.  

My reply ..... I dumbed it does for you as above

me:  If this is your idea of a sensible sentence, then they ought to burn down the school you learned English sentence structure from.

you:  Total number killed by God in the Bible

- Using biblical numbers only: 2,821,364

 - With estimates: 25 million

You say ......How about a reliable source re these numbers.  Reliable please, not some biased source.

My reply .... the source is sound

me:  You still haven't gave me your source, other than a general "bible" reference, which doesn't refer to any number as you say it is.  What is your "sound" source?

My reply .....The Bible is my source maybe you should read it sometime?

You say .....I have studied the bible, & also read it all the time ..... that's why I have asked you to substantiate that number......So easy to make claims, but it's another story to back them up. ......

Would you like an actual list ?

me:  The source where you have taken these numbers from, & don't say it's the bible this time.

You say ......I saw this number from an anti-God site, but they estimated many of their numbers. ......

My reply .....What’s an anti god site ? Newsflash Atheists don’t believe in a god

me:  I'm sure you know what I meant. 

You say .....Just be honest here ..... did you really only use the bible & meticulously reference each & every instance someone was killed, or use this site for your reference. .......

My reply .....I’ve done the research in the past and what’s wrong with using a site for reference Christians apparently do it all the time from anti atheists sites ☺️

me:  Once again, you are assuming.  Not a good tactic on a debate venue. 

If you've done the resarch in the past,  then it should be easy to retrieve it.

You say .....Odd that the number was exactly the same as the one you gave .... estimates & all, yet you say it was the bible that you obtained your number from.  Very odd.

My reply .....It’s old news among Atheists regarding the figures isn’t that odd?

me:  Odd that the larger numbers they give are estimates, which mean nothing.  That's why I stated to give me a RELIABLE source.

A more detailed list can be given to include the killing of children and innocent people/civilians.

You say ......Those children were actually teens, not little kids.  ......

My reply .......You really need to actually read your Bible , do you have one ?

2 Kings 2:23-24 King James Version (KJV) 23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. me:  You do know that the ancient Hebrew language consisted of only 8500 or so words right?  Maany of the same words had different meanings.  A little research on your part may be enlightening for you.

See that little children ?

me:  The NIV says boys, not little children.

You say ......You said children.  That's not true.

My reply .....It is , read a Bible

me:  I have .... see above, & studied these verses bc they bothered me.  That's why I said what I had said.

You say ......Not children tho, but if it teaches a lesson, then it's just. .....

Read above , so killing children is fine with you for merely ribbing a bald man ? Oh dear

me:  If that's all the meaning you get out of that, then you probably thing "Animal Farm" by Orwell was only about disgruntled animals that were upset with their owner/farmer.

You say ......Just think if those teenagers were to grow up & cause greater evil?

My reply ..... Yes better off killing children for jeering a bald man 

  

You say .....your, "God inflicting thousands if not millions ..."  Is this your opinion bc there's a huge diff between 1000's & 1,000,000's.  .....

The figures are accurate 

You say :  ummm, yes for an estimate that covers a generous amount of potential difference.  Haha

My reply ..... it’s all in the Bible waiting for you 

You say .....Done for effect, or truth ..... I have to wonder.......

me:  Wonder all you want, but study is better.

The truth seems to hurt you 

You say .....Nah.

My reply ..... I’ve just proved it does , your denial confirms it

me:  You don't seem to know much about a debate venue if you say that.

You say .....I also have to wonder if you know that people that had been killed for God's purpose, & to save them from a sinful life later & therefore an eternity in hell. .....

My reply ....really how hilarious , so god now kills people so they won’t sin but lets others live so ......they can ......sin 

You say ...A life dedicated to sin, is much different than a life dedicated to God, but sins at times bc they are human.

My reply ..... So answer my question which you avoided , why does god let people live so they can commit sin but kill others so they cannot ?

me:  I answered it, never avoided as you say.  You just may not understand the answer.

People choose to sin, & are forgiven if they repent & follow Jesus' teachings. 

The past lessons are to teach us, doesn't happen any more.  I answered your question as you alluded to the present day.  (Refer to your usage of the present tense "... people' live' ..." & "... 'can commit sin ...").  Those that died in the OT were on the road for a life of continual sin. 

Bet you still won’t answer 

I shall address part two of your response when time permits

Joeseph

@poco

You say ...Since the definition of encouragement is 'support of the individual' ..... doesn't seem like God supported Satan, just allowed him to do his thing, which is much different.

My reply ......encourage

VERB

[WITH OBJECT]

1
Give support, confidence, or hope to (someone)

Exactly what did as the “ All right “ totally supports my claim as in that’s agreement /support 

You say .....Deleting what?

My reply ....That was meant to be deflecting something you keep doing 

I asked ...... I can think of many examples of god encouraging evil as in .......

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

You say .......A deflection I see.  I referred to your specific Job reference.  I will address your above concern when you address my 1st question above.

My reply .....I’ve addressed your concerns twice now so why are you being dishonest ? 

You say ........Yeah, after you just answered it with this reply, not the one I was addressing with my last response......

My reply .... It’s been addressed twice , so I take you’ve no defence of the second question I asked ? 

You say ....See my above response.  Why are you trying to make it look as tho you have previously answered my previous posts, when you only addressed them with this new post?  geez....

My reply ... I did , you didn’t like the answer ..... tough 

You say .....One associates, from the bible & other references, God with love. .....

My reply .....I disagree , god as depicted in the Bible is evil 

You say .....Maybe not all, but many.

My reply ..... Yes but of course you see the slaughter of children by bears as a “good “ don’t you ?

You ask .....Please give me reliable references associating Satan with love, or anything positive. 

My reply ....your ignorance is appalling regarding your religion and the Bible,     Lucifer was established by God to be the angel of worship one who’s ministry surrounded the heart of heaven

So tell me when he was the angel of worship in heaven was it because he was evil or  non loving ? 

You need to work on your “logic “ 

You say ......You certainly like to assume don't you?

My reply .... I’m not “assuming “ as my claims are 100 per cent accurate 

You say ....ummm, maybe you're just not doing a good enuf job. .....

My reply .... I’m not responsible for your stupidity 

You say ......Besides, when you delete parts of the conversation, I'm not going to go back & try to figure out what you're referring to, so copy & paste the entire conversation please.....

My reply .... You’re resorting to lies now I see 

You say ......If this is your idea of a sensible sentence, then they ought to burn down the school you learned English sentence structure from.

My reply ......Again I’m not responsible for your stupidity 

you:  Total number killed by God in the Bible

- Using biblical numbers only: 2,821,364

 - With estimates: 25 million

You say ......How about a reliable source re these numbers.  Reliable please, not some biased source.

My reply .... the source is sound 

You say .....You still haven't gave me your source, other than a general "bible" reference, .....

My reply .... I asked If you wanted a list from the Bible you remained mute 

You say ....which doesn't refer to any number as you say it is.  What is your "sound" source?

My reply ..... It’s still the Bible , I’m glad you agree it’s not exactly “ sound “ 

You say .....I have studied the bible, & also read it all the time 

My reply .... You haven’t , you’re clueless on it 

You  say .....that's why I have asked you to substantiate that number......

My reply ..... for the 5th time do you want a list ?

You say ....So easy to make claims, but it's another story to back them up. ......

My reply .....But I can 

You say .....The source where you have taken these numbers from, & don't say it's the bible this time.....

My reply .....It’s the ......Bible ...still 

You say ......I saw this number from an anti-God site, but they estimated many of their numbers. ......

My reply .....What’s an anti god site ? Newsflash Atheists don’t believe in a god 

me:  I'm sure you know what I meant.  

My reply .....No explain ?

You say .....Just be honest here ..... did you really only use the bible & meticulously reference each & every instance someone was killed, or use this site for your reference. .......

My reply .....I’ve done the research in the past and what’s wrong with using a site for reference Christians apparently do it all the time from anti atheists sites ☺️

me:  Once again, you are assuming.  Not a good tactic on a debate venue.  

If you've done the resarch in the past,  then it should be easy to retrieve it.

My reply .... You mean retrieve it from the lists I keep asking you do you want ?

You say .....Odd that the number was exactly the same as the one you gave .... estimates & all, yet you say it was the bible that you obtained your number from.  Very odd.

My reply .....It’s old news among Atheists regarding the figures isn’t that odd?

me:  Odd that the larger numbers they give are estimates, which mean nothing.  That's why I stated to give me a RELIABLE source.

A more detailed list can be given to include the killing of children and innocent people/civilians.

You say ......Those children were actually teens, not little kids.  ......

My reply .......You really need to actually read your Bible , do you have one ?

2 Kings 2:23-24 King James Version (KJV) 23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. me:  You do know that the ancient Hebrew language consisted of only 8500 or so words right?  Maany of the same words had different meanings.  A little research on your part may be enlightening for you.

See that little children ?

me:  The NIV says boys, not little children. 

You say ......You said children.  That's not true.

My reply .....It is , read a Bible 

me:  I have .... see above, & studied these verses bc they bothered me.  That's why I said what I had said.

You say ......Not children tho, but if it teaches a lesson, then it's just. .....

Read above , so killing children is fine with you for merely ribbing a bald man ? Oh dear 

You say ....If that's all the meaning you get out of that, then you probably thing "Animal Farm" by Orwell was only about disgruntled animals that were upset with their owner/farmer.

My reply .... You’re not qualified to give literary criticism seeing as you believe a book with talking Serpents , a talking Donkey , virgin birth,a zombie Jesus , water into wine etc   Etc 

You say ......Just think if those teenagers were to grow up & cause greater evil?

My reply ..... Yes better off killing children for jeering a bald man 

  

You say .....your, "God inflicting thousands if not millions ..."  Is this your opinion bc there's a huge diff between 1000's & 1,000,000's.  .....

My reply ..... very odd your figures are the same as those from an anti atheist site , very odd .....Any reliable sources for those claims ?

The figures are accurate 

You say :  ummm, yes for an estimate that covers a generous amount of potential difference.  Haha

My reply ..... it’s all in the Bible waiting for you 

You say .....You don't seem to know much about a debate venue if you say that.....

My reply ...  You don’t debate , I see I’m not alone in that opinion and you’ve being called for being dishonest and harassing others , why not attempt to debate ? 

You say .....I also have to wonder if you know that people that had been killed for God's purpose, & to save them from a sinful life later & therefore an eternity in hell. .....

My reply ..... So answer my question which you avoided , why does god let people live so they can commit sin but kill others so they cannot ?

You say ....I answered it, never avoided as you say.  You just may not understand the answer.

My reply ..... No , you’re refusing to answer 

You say ....People choose to sin, & are forgiven if they repent & follow Jesus' teachings.  

The past lessons are to teach us, doesn't happen any more.  I answered your question as you alluded to the present day.  (Refer to your usage of the present tense "... people' live' ..." & "... 'can commit sin ...").  Those that died in the OT were on the road for a life of continual sin.  

My reply ....I don’t comprehend that statement it’s gibberish 

Bet you still won’t answer , and you still refuse to answer , why’s that ? 

Joeseph

@poco

One more thing the biblical text regarding children and bears is from the King James versions of the Bible which is regarded amongst Christian scholars as being the most accurate and detailed , you’ve probably never heard of it though 

Evidence

Joeseph said:

@with_all_humility

I don’t  believe in a god , I’m critiquing what it says in the Bible regards the slaughter and mayhem carried out by your “loving “ god 

@Joeseph said: "I don't believe in a god"

That's like a food critic taking a menu from a Restaurant and write his opinion on the food without having tasted any of it.

Evidence

George_Horse said:

@Evidence No.

@George_Horse ; .. No to what?

Joeseph

@Evidence

You say ......That's like a food critic taking a menu from a Restaurant and write his opinion on the food without having tasted any of it.

My reply .....Or maybe it’s like a literary critic , critiquing a work of fiction .......rumour has it they do it all the time 

poco

@Joeseph

you:  One more thing the biblical text regarding children and bears is from the King James versions of the Bible which is regarded amongst Christian scholars as being the most accurate and detailed , you’ve probably never heard of it though 

me:  There you go again, making unsubstantiated claims, & assumptions.  You surely do that a lot ..... doesn't help your credibility re your debating skills, or truth. 

Ya see, that's the difference between folks like you & I.  You throw anything on the wall & see what sticks to further your personal narrative .... truth or lies, & I ask for those claims to be verified b4 engaging with your personal opinion, which we all know its worth huh?  (There's that pesky question mark in the proper location once again).

Joeseph

@poco

My reply .....There you go again accusing me of what you’re guilty off as in nowhere in the Bible did it mention children regarding the bears , when I exposed your lie you attempted to lie again and deny it was in any Bible yet in your country alone it’s the most popular version and regarded the most accurate , so why not attempt another lie or instead be a man instead of a coward and admit your deceit ..... Jesus would detest you

Let me educate you yet  again ......

From Christianity today ( a Christian site for you ) 

When Americans reach for their Bibles, more than half of them pick up a King James Version (KJV), according to a new study advised by respected historian Mark Noll.

The 55 percent who read the KJV easily outnumber the 19 percent who read the New International Version (NIV). And the percentages drop into the single digits for competitors such as the New Revised Standard Version, New America Bible, and the Living Bible.

You say ....Ya see, that's the difference between folks like you & I.  You throw anything on the wall & see what sticks to further your personal narrative .... 

My reply ..... But that’s exactly what you’re doing as in lying in an attempt to avoid your cowardly denial of what you know is fact 

You say .....truth or lies, & I ask for those claims to be verified b4 engaging with your personal opinion,...

My reply ..... which I keep doing but I note this is the way you behave on every debate and people keep calling you on it , your retort is then to harass others as the Bible and Christianity no doubt thought you 

You say .....which we all know its worth huh ? ......

My reply .....Real meaning ......you just got schooled again and you’re all in a little temper tantrum 

You say ...

There's that pesky question mark in the proper location once again .

My reply .... That as usual makes little sense but then again that’s consistent with most your replies 

with_all_humility

@Joeseph

i haven’t forgotten about your question and I will most likely have you something NLT Monday. I’ve been in a class all week and just have not been afforded the time to type up my thoughts. 

Apologies! 

Joeseph

@with_all_humility


i haven’t forgotten about your question and I will most likely have you something NLT Monday. I’ve been in a class all week and just have not been afforded the time to type up my thoughts. 

Apologies! 


Apologies not necessary and thank  you for taking the time to tell me , I see from your posts you’re a decent fair minded person and the type of Christian l like to engage with , no offence but most American Christians on here are very aggressive  and rude I give them right back what they serve up .

I look forward to a good exchange with you 

George_Horse

@Evidence From previously. You asked if I was originally replying to one of your arguments, I answered "No".

poco

@Joeseph

you: 

My reply .....There you go again accusing me of what you’re guilty off as in nowhere in the Bible did it mention children regarding the bears , when I exposed your lie you attempted to lie again and deny it was in any Bible yet in your country alone it’s the most popular version and regarded the most accurate , so why not attempt another lie or instead be a man instead of a coward and admit your deceit ..... Jesus would detest you

me:  Never had I stated that,"... nowhere in the Bible did it mention children regarding the bears ..."  I said that the other versions of the bible did not use the term "children." 

Yes, I questioned your claim that the KJV version when you stated that it was the most popular version for Christians.  I asked for your source re your claim ..... See how you blatantly lie?  Geez.

you:  Let me educate you yet  again ......

From Christianity today ( a Christian site for you ) 

When Americans reach for their Bibles, more than half of them pick up a King James Version (KJV), according to a new study advised by respected historian Mark Noll.

The 55 percent who read the KJV easily outnumber the 19 percent who read the New International Version (NIV). And the percentages drop into the single digits for competitors such as the New Revised Standard Version, New America Bible, and the Living Bible.

me:  That is true, but it doesn't mean it's the most accurate.  Sometimes longevity creates loyalty, which is why the KJV is the most popular.  But what does this have to do with "children" vs "boys?"  Nothing.  Versions differ, so since there is question re this, & the fact that many ancient Hebrew words had many meanings bc they only had a vocabulay of about 8500 words, we cannot be sure what is meant by the author.

You say ....Ya see, that's the difference between folks like you & I.  You throw anything on the wall & see what sticks to further your personal narrative .... 

3

My reply ..... But that’s exactly what you’re doing as in lying in an attempt to avoid your cowardly denial of what you know is fact

me: hahaha .... I gotta laugh re your accusation.  I guess you think that I take them, your accusations, seriously.  Nah ..... considering the source, I discard them.

You say .....truth or lies, & I ask for those claims to be verified b4 engaging with your personal opinion,...

My reply ..... which I keep doing but I note this is the way you behave on every debate and people keep calling you on it , your retort is then to harass others as the Bible and Christianity no doubt thought you

See above.

You say .....which we all know its worth huh ? ......

My reply .....Real meaning ......you just got schooled again and you’re all in a little temper tantrum

See above.

You say ...

There's that pesky question mark in the proper location once again .

My reply .... That as usual makes little sense but then again that’s consistent with most your replies

This refers to a previous comment I made re the question mark placement you make ..... You leave a space between the '?' & the previous last word of the sentence.  Wrong.

Joeseph

@pocoYou say ....Never had I stated that,"... nowhere in the Bible did it mention children regarding the bears ..."  I said that the other versions of the bible did not use the term "children."  

My reply ....

 I asked ....How very kind of him getting bears to maim 42 children to you is just ?

You replied ......Not children tho, but if it teaches a lesson, then it's just.  Just think if those teenagers were to grow up & cause greater evil?

You just cannot help lying can you ? 

  

You say ....Yes, I questioned your claim that the KJV version when you stated that it was the most popular version for Christians.  I asked for your source re your claim ..... See how you blatantly lie?  Geez.

My reply .... I’ve just given a source so again this proves you’re the actual , so you’re wrong yet again 

you:  Let me educate you yet  again ......

From Christianity today ( a Christian site for you ) 

When Americans reach for their Bibles, more than half of them pick up a King James Version (KJV), according to a new study advised by respected historian Mark Noll.

The 55 percent who read the KJV easily outnumber the 19 percent who read the New International Version (NIV). And the percentages drop into the single digits for competitors such as the New Revised Standard Version, New America Bible, and the Living Bible.

me:  That is true, but it doesn't mean it's the most accurate.  Sometimes longevity creates loyalty, which is why the KJV is the most popular.  But what does this have to do with "children" vs "boys?"  Nothing.  Versions differ, so since there is question re this, & the fact that many ancient Hebrew words had many meanings bc they only had a vocabulay of about 8500 words, we cannot be sure what is meant by the author.

See that , proves you’re a  

You say ....Ya see, that's the difference between folks like you & I.  You throw anything on the wall & see what sticks to further your personal narrative .... 

3

My reply ..... But that’s exactly what you’re doing as in lying in an attempt to avoid your cowardly denial of what you know is fact 

You say ....hahaha .... I gotta laugh re your accusation.  I guess you think that I take them, your accusations, seriously.  Nah ..... considering the source, I discard them......

My reply ....Interesting so you disregard an American Christian site and you think the King James is not worthy 

you say ....truth  or lies, & I ask for those claims to be verified b4 engaging with your personal opinion,...

My reply .... So a King James Bible and a Christian website are not to be trusted .... got ya 

You say .....which we all know its worth huh ? ......

My reply .... Well you’re the one another debater asked would you stop harassing him , I see you’re a well known and troll on here ....but you’re a .....” Christian “ aren’t you ?

My reply .....Real meaning ......you just got schooled again and you’re all in a little temper tantrum 

You say .....See above.

My reply .... still sulking 

You say ...

There's that pesky question mark in the proper location once again .

My reply .... That as usual makes little sense but then again that’s consistent with most your replies 

You say.......This refers to a previous comment I made re the question mark placement you make ..... You leave a space between the '?' & the previous last word of the sentence.  ....

Let me correct you yet again .....

Spacing With Punctuation. With a computer, use only one space following periods, commas, semicolons, colons, exclamation points, question marks, and quotation marks. The space needed after these punctuation marks is proportioned automatically. Use no spaces on either side of a hyphen.

Spacing with Punctuation | Punctuation Rules

https://www.grammarbook.com › spacing

You got to laugh 

New scientist ....

We all suspected it, but now we finaly have the empiricial proof – grammar nazis are assholes.

Researchers at the university of michigan have drilled down into the minds of the obnoxious pedants whom feel the need to correct everyones grammar all the time.

As part of their study they asked 83 people to analyse an email full, of erors and then evaluated their personality traits.

The results were frankly unsurprising to.

Gramar police scored low on levels of agreeability and openmindedness, and high on levels of neuroticism and conscientiousness.

Sounds exactly like you , by the way why can you not spell you ?   There’s a space for you 

My reply ....I’ve corrected you on this do keep up 

You say ....Wrong.

My reply ....You’re incorrect yet again 

Evidence

Joeseph said:

@Evidence

You say ......That's like a food critic taking a menu from a Restaurant and write his opinion on the food without having tasted any of it.

My reply .....Or maybe it’s like a literary critic , critiquing a work of fiction .......rumour has it they do it all the time 

@Joeseph ;

Fiction? .. honestly, have you even read Wikipedia's Big-Bang story? Here is a snapshot of how you believe you came into existence;


Timeline of the metric expansion of space, where space (including hypothetical non-observable portions of the universe) is represented at each time by the circular sections. On the left, the dramatic expansion occurs in the inflationary epoch; and at the center, the expansion accelerates (artist's concept; not to scale)

Remember, this is an artist's concept; not to scale, .. who do they think they are presenting this to, talking apes or something? Would you like to debate the BB story?
Let me see you explain the "sudden expansion" in scientific observational terms that why it was not an explosion that made a big "BANG"?
No, not a big explosion, as Paul Steinhardt, director of the Princeton Center for Theoretical Science at Princeton University in Princeton, N.J. explains that: "If it were an explosion it would have a center," so Herr-director Steinhardt says: "Instead of a center from which everything expanded, scientists think space is expanding everywhere, in all directions, equally." Hmm, interesting!?

So how did George Lemaitre and Hubble imagine a singularity, the crazy idea that 13.77 billion years ago the universe was in a single point getting denser and hotter? How does something suddenly-expand in all direction from a single point, but not have a center? Why, what's wrong with your universe having a center?

Would you (or anyone ) like to start a new thread and debate the Big-Bang story with us Flat Earthers? Or just from time "Zero" to the first afterglow light patterns, or first 375,000 years!?

https://www.livescience.com/32278-was-the-big-bang-really-an-explosion.html

And then we can debate the Bibles Creation version which includes a talking serpent, and why that is any different than talking apes?

Thank you.

LogicVault

It seems responding directly to the debaters is futile. They will just come up with another way to work around your responses through manipulation, hypocrisy, lies, etc. So, I'm going to stick to just speaking to the people who are correct or the people actually seeking truth.

Joeseph

@Evidence

Yes indeed, the Bible  is a poorly written book of utter written by Bronze Age goat herds and used to indoctrinate sheeple into believing nonsense. 

Why are you asking me about the Big Bang and what wiki says ? You do not even know what I believe or why I believe what I believe do you ? 

poco

@Joeseph

you:  

You say ...Since the definition of encouragement is 'support of the individual' ..... doesn't seem like God supported Satan, just allowed him to do his thing, which is much different.

My reply ......encourage

VERB

[WITH OBJECT]

1
Give support, confidence, or hope to (someone)

Exactly what did as the “ All right “ totally supports my claim as in that’s agreement /support 

me:  Anything to support your narrative, even tho it doesn't fit the real one. 

You say .....Deleting what?

My reply ....That was meant to be deflecting something you keep doing

me:  I wonder if you would have ever used the word 'deflecting' if I hadn't used it 1st?  You do this often.

I asked ...... I can think of many examples of god encouraging evil as in .......

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

You say .......A deflection I see.  I referred to your specific Job reference.  I will address your above concern when you address my 1st question above.

My reply .....I’ve addressed your concerns twice now so why are you being dishonest ?

me:  Nah, but I'm used to your failure to be specific ...... very typical for your ilk, & for those with no debating skills.

You say ........Yeah, after you just answered it with this reply, not the one I was addressing with my last response......

My reply .... It’s been addressed twice , so I take you’ve no defence of the second question I asked ?

me:  Repeat it again .... if it's so important.

You say ....See my above response.  Why are you trying to make it look as tho you have previously answered my previous posts, when you only addressed them with this new post?  geez....

My reply ... I did , you didn’t like the answer ..... tough 

You say .....One associates, from the bible & other references, God with love. .....

My reply .....I disagree , god as depicted in the Bible is evil

me:  Even with giving His only son as a sacrifice for our sins huh? 

You say .....Maybe not all, but many.

My reply ..... Yes but of course you see the slaughter of children by bears as a “good “ don’t you ?

You ask .....Please give me reliable references associating Satan with love, or anything positive. 

My reply ....your ignorance is appalling regarding your religion and the Bible,     Lucifer was established by God to be the angel of worship one who’s ministry surrounded the heart of heaven

me:  Bu it wasn't God's choice for Lucifer to rebel ..... it was on Lucifer's own account.

Angel of worship?  Where'd you ever come up with that one?  Not at all.

So tell me when he was the angel of worship in heaven was it because he was evil or  non loving ?

me:  You'll have to tell me where you've come up with the worship idea.

You need to work on your “logic “ 

You say ......You certainly like to assume don't you?

My reply .... I’m not “assuming “ as my claims are 100 per cent accurate

me:  Even as you accused me earlier of not reading the bible & only listening to my pastor?  Maybe you define 100% accurate differently than everyone else, but that takes away from your 100% claim .... plus other examples if you need them. 

You say ....ummm, maybe you're just not doing a good enuf job. .....

My reply .... I’m not responsible for your stupidity 

You say ......Besides, when you delete parts of the conversation, I'm not going to go back & try to figure out what you're referring to, so copy & paste the entire conversation please.....

My reply .... You’re resorting to lies now I see 

me:  whatever ......

You say ......If this is your idea of a sensible sentence, then they ought to burn down the school you learned English sentence structure from.

My reply ......Again I’m not responsible for your stupidity 

me:  Ahhhhh, denial is bliss is it not for you?

you:  Total number killed by God in the Bible

- Using biblical numbers only: 2,821,364

 - With estimates: 25 million

You say ......How about a reliable source re these numbers.  Reliable please, not some biased source.

My reply .... the source is sound 

You say .....You still haven't gave me your source, other than a general "bible" reference, .....

My reply .... I asked If you wanted a list from the Bible you remained mute 

You say ....which doesn't refer to any number as you say it is.  What is your "sound" source?

My reply ..... It’s still the Bible , I’m glad you agree it’s not exactly “ sound “ 

me:  Sure give me the examples with numbers from the bible that equal your claim OK?

You say .....I have studied the bible, & also read it all the time 

My reply .... You haven’t , you’re clueless on it

me:  See, another wrong assumption.  You're losing more from that 100% all the time.

You  say .....that's why I have asked you to substantiate that number......

My reply ..... for the 5th time do you want a list ?

me:  Yes

You say ....So easy to make claims, but it's another story to back them up. ......

My reply .....But I can 

You say .....The source where you have taken these numbers from, & don't say it's the bible this time.....

My reply .....It’s the ......Bible ...still 

You say ......I saw this number from an anti-God site, but they estimated many of their numbers. ......

My reply .....What’s an anti god site ? Newsflash Atheists don’t believe in a god 

me:  I'm sure you know what I meant.  

My reply .....No explain ?

me:  & you call me .

You say .....Just be honest here ..... did you really only use the bible & meticulously reference each & every instance someone was killed, or use this site for your reference. .......

My reply .....I’ve done the research in the past and what’s wrong with using a site for reference Christians apparently do it all the time from anti atheists sites ☺️

me:  Once again, you are assuming.  Not a good tactic on a debate venue.  

If you've done the research in the past,  then it should be easy to retrieve it.

My reply .... You mean retrieve it from the lists I keep asking you do you want ?

me:  See, you acknowledge that I have asked you for your specific source's list.  Hmmmm

You say .....Odd that the number was exactly the same as the one you gave .... estimates & all, yet you say it was the bible that you obtained your number from.  Very odd.

My reply .....It’s old news among Atheists regarding the figures isn’t that odd?

me:  Odd that the larger numbers they give are estimates, which mean nothing.  That's why I stated to give me a RELIABLE source.

A more detailed list can be given to include the killing of children and innocent people/civilians.

You say ......Those children were actually teens, not little kids.  ......

My reply .......You really need to actually read your Bible , do you have one ?

2 Kings 2:23-24 King James Version (KJV) 23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. me:  You do know that the ancient Hebrew language consisted of only 8500 or so words right?  Maany of the same words had different meanings.  A little research on your part may be enlightening for you.

See that little children ?

me:  The NIV says boys, not little children. 

You say ......You said children.  That's not true.

My reply .....It is , read a Bible 

me:  I have .... see above, & studied these verses bc they bothered me.  That's why I said what I had said.

You say ......Not children tho, but if it teaches a lesson, then it's just. .....

Read above , so killing children is fine with you for merely ribbing a bald man ? Oh dear 

You say ....If that's all the meaning you get out of that, then you probably thing "Animal Farm" by Orwell was only about disgruntled animals that were upset with their owner/farmer.

My reply .... You’re not qualified to give literary criticism seeing as you believe a book with talking Serpents , a talking Donkey , virgin birth,a zombie Jesus , water into wine etc   Etc

me:  Please refer to my "Animal Farm" example above re hidden meanings, metaphors & allegories.  You did comprehend my "Animal Farm" reference didn't you?

You say ......Just think if those teenagers were to grow up & cause greater evil?

My reply ..... Yes better off killing children for jeering a bald man

me:  Ya still don't get it

  

You say .....your, "God inflicting thousands if not millions ..."  Is this your opinion bc there's a huge diff between 1000's & 1,000,000's.  .....

My reply ..... very odd your figures are the same as those from an anti atheist site , very odd .....Any reliable sources for those claims ?

The figures are accurate 

You say :  ummm, yes for an estimate that covers a generous amount of potential difference.  Haha

My reply ..... it’s all in the Bible waiting for you

me:  I've read it many times, with studying it unlike you, & have not seen the numbers you claim to have from the bible. 

me:  Ya know, I could say the sky is blue, & if you won't want to agree with that bc the bible says it's blue, yo'll say it's some other color.  (Hopefully you'll understand what I'm getting at). 

We could go on like this forever, with you criticizing the bible's contents words & events forever just bc you ..... want to.  With your refusal to acknowledge there is a deeper meaning, like much of literature, to all of the bible, you use that lack of knowledge & lack of debate protocol to go on like this ...... forever.  I could say blue, & you'll say something else just to disagree.  A debate takes more than one person knowing the subject matter in a studied manner,which you do not know. 

If you have any question that needs answering that's of a serious matter, I'll be glad to accommodate.  I have grown tired & frustrated with folks such as yourself that argue just bc you want to ..... that's a troll BTW.  You've told me more than once that you frequent Christian forums to tell us how we are.  That is a definition of a troll.  & I'm tired of your immature antics here ...... it's worthless for me to continue to argue a point that you have no intention of accepting studed finding.  (Another symptom of a troll).

 

Joeseph

@poco

You say.....

We could go on like this forever, with you criticizing the bible's contents words & events forever just bc you ..... want to. .....

My reply ....Not because I want too it’s because we are debating from different perspectives why are you all hurt over that ?

You say ....With your refusal to acknowledge there is a deeper meaning, like much of literature,.....

My reply ....I disagree , the Bible is a book of childish nonsense 

You say ...you use that lack of knowledge & lack of debate protocol to go on like this ...... forever......

My reply .... You know nothing regarding the Bible as we have discovered , your debating skills and manners are appalling so thanks for the lecture but no thanks 

You say ...I could say blue, & you'll say something else just to disagree.....  

My reply.... No , what you really mean is you you would say blue but then deny it and say “ well I act said red “ 

You say ....A debate takes more than one person knowing the subject matter in a studied manner,which you do not know.  

My reply .....A debate takes more than one person knowing the subject matter in a studied manner,which you do not know.  

You say ....If you have any question that needs answering that's of a serious matter, I'll be glad to accommodate.  

My reply.....If you have any question that needs answering that's of a serious matter, I'll be glad to accommodate.  

You say .....I have grown tired & frustrated with folks such as yourself that argue just bc you want to ..... that's a troll BTW.  

My reply........I have grown tired & frustrated with folks such as yourself that argue just bc you want to ..... that's a troll BTW

You says.........You've told me more than once that you frequent Christian forums to tell us how we are.......

My reply ..... That’s a deliberate lie and you know I never said that and I bet yet again you cannot prove that , I do  not believe all Christians are in fact quiet the reverse , do you really have to stoop that low ?

You say ....That is a definition of a troll. .....

My reply ...  That’s exactly what you’re doing you make a lie up regarding me to make yourself look what exactly ?

You say .......& I'm tired of your immature antics here ...... it's worthless for me to continue to argue a point that you have no intention of accepting studed finding.  (Another symptom of a troll)....

My reply .............& I'm tired of your immature antics here ...... it's worthless for me to continue to argue a point that you have no intention of accepting studed finding.  (Another symptom of a troll)....

with_all_humility

Joeseph said:

@with_all_humility

You say ...  To do so, is to mock God, and in the times of Old Testament would bring about the wrath of God. .....

My reply ....Yes ,and it seems gods moral god code became a bit more tolerant I;the New Testament, why’s that ? 

Joeseph, apologies again for taking so long to get to your answer for God's moral code from the time of the OT to that of the NT times. 

Is God of the Old Testament (OT) of different temperament in the New Testament (NT)?:

I appreciate you asking such questions to allow for clarification of what you and others believe to be a confliction in the Bible.  First, let’s examine some verses that speak of God being eternal.  

 Jesus: 

 Mark 1:1-3 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.  As it is written in Isaiah the prophet, “Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way, the voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight,’”

• The beginning of Marks Gospel we can see that it was for told by OT prophets that Christ, the Son of God would be sent to man. 

 

Joh 1:1-3:  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was in the beginning with God.  All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

• The being of John’s Gospel tells us that the Word (Jesus) was with God at the beginning of creation and that all of creation was manifested through the Word
• Note: Contrary to macroevolution theory the Bible does answer the quest of how things came into existence

 

Joh 1:9 -11: The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.  He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.  He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.

• Here John tells us of the prophecy of Jesus the Son of God coming into the physical world. Note: The world did not know and His people (Jews) rejected Him

Heb 1:1-2:  Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

• The book of Hebrews speaks of the Son of God is the creator of the world as well
•  Hebrews is a great book to read to see how/why the NT came into being and the setting aside of the OT Law
• The rest of chapter one speaks to the Lordship of Christ

 Heb 13:8:  Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

• The verse here speaks the eternal existence of Jesus…If Jesus is eternal then we can infer that God the Father is eternal as well

Heb 13:20-21:  Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

• Here the author tells us that God is the God of peace.  Nowhere does the Bible does it ever refer to God as the God of war.  He is called the God of vengeance/recompense, hence the word vengeance, as well as recompense, carries the notion that someone had transgressed something or someone.

 

It might benefit to show/explain the purpose of the OT and the OT law.

 Heb 10:1:  For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.

(and)

Heb 10:9:  then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

• The author here explains that the law (Law of Moses or OT law) was a shadow of the (good) things to come

Heb 9:22-23:  Indeed, under the law, almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.  Thus, it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

• The verse tells us that OT Israel was a physical representation of what “spiritual” Israel (Christians) would be with the establishment of the NT Law under Christ who was the NT Testator  

• God has always required a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins
•       Rom 6.23: For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God does not sin

• Jam 1.13:  Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.

Leviticus explains why blood is required 

• Lev 17.11:  For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

You may be asking yourself what any of this has to do with answering your question.  Well, we had lay foundation Bible reference to allow the Bible to speak for itself.  What we have established thus far is that God the Father, Christ the Son of God and the Holy Spirit are eternal entities.  So, the God of the OT is the same God of the NT.  God is not a God of violence or of war.  But is the God of…

• God of earth and heaven (Gen 24.3), of the Hebrews (Exo 3.18), of Israel (Exo 24.10), of gods and the Lord of lords (Deu 10.17), of truth and without injustice (Deu 32.4), of knowledge (1 Sam 2.3), and of mercy (Ps 59.7)

 

God in the OT is viewed as merciful and gracious Who is slow to anger, long-suffering and abounding goodness. 

• Ps 103.8:  The LORD is merciful and gracious, Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.
• Exo 34.7-8:  And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth,keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty,visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and the fourth generation."

We might illustrate how people can view the same God as having two different personalities we can illustrate using how people view fire. To some fire is warmth and security, while others view it as something that hurts them and destroys. Because of your bias, when you read the or search the Bible you are looking for verses that point out a God of destruction and of death.  All the while the Bible clearly says to those who study it and come to under what is being said in context.  They find God is good, merciful and the author of salvation.

So, why all the death and destruction?  Again, the physical death and destruction of Israel and other nations represent God’s wrath towards evil and sinful debase behavior.  There are no degrees of sin, sin is sin.  God gave man a physical representation of what happens to those who transgress His laws. However, in the Christian age under the New Covent, those who do repent of their sins or those who are not in Christ (i.e. Christians) will experience a spiritual death on the day of judgment by being cast in the lake of fire (hell).  

• Rev 20.14-15:  Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire
• Rom 6.23:  For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

 

Consider these passages:

Rom 6.5-6:  But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.)  Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?

• The apostle Paul points out in Romans that God is not unreasonable for inflicting wrath upon the world.  

1 Thessalonians 1.9-10:  For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

• In Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians, he points out that Jesus delivers us (Christians) from the wrath to come.  As stated before, God’s wrath will be unleashed at the end of time.  Until then mankind has been given all they need to know in order to receive salvation on the day of judgment.  

From the of time of the OT prophets to the birth of Christ, God became silent and no longer spoke to man.  Since the day of Moses, God has not spoken directly to man. From that period until the 400 years of silence he spoke through visions, dreams and through angels. 

• Numbers 12.6-8: And he said, “Hear my words: If there is a prophet among you, I the LORD make myself known to him in a vision; I speak with him in a dream.  Not so with my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my house.  With him, I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”
• Deu 34.10-12: And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, none like him for all the signs and the wonders that the LORD sent him to do in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, and for all the mighty power and all the great deeds of terror that Moses did in the sight of all Israel.

I will stop here, I’ve shown that God is eternal, He is the same God of the same character throughout the OT and NT.  That the physical events in the OT represent the things in the spiritual realm and the judgment to come at the end of the Christian age.  That God wrath is His judgment for those who transgress His laws.  If anything is unclear or needs further explanation to let me know. 

 

Respectfully…with all humility

refugee

Been seeking the notices of Christian terrorism as of late can't seem to find them maybe you can guide me in the right direction to clear things up.

refugee

@someone234

The latest Christian massacre took place in Paris,France if i am not mistaken but help me out.